VN Ren'Py Completed Freeloading Family [v0.32] [FFCreations]

[rodneyeatme]

Ironically, one thing that I read and tried to account for was how much of a "bitch" Leah is/was. I tried to imply in this update that she's softening up and starting to like the MC more, but now people are questioning her motives lol. I kind of love the theories and the ideas people have because it means you're playing the game, but at the same time it feels like I can't please you at all. You think she's too mean... I make her less mean, but still act tough... Neither is apparently ok.

All I can do, ever, is write a story that I hope will be enjoyed. Keep the theories coming, though. It is fun to see what people think, even if it isn't entirely positive all the time.

That's the thing with episodic releases and something a lot of developers on here fail to understand - your initial episodes set your story up, yes, but they also cement expectations in the reader/player's mind. It is perfectly illustrated in the way some members here react to the characters. Alice is initially nice, friendly to MC, flirty with MC? Players have found their waifu and will brook no competition. Leah is introduced as a bitch on wheels? Her mid-stream changeover is distrusted. Melody is initially shown to be a random force of perversion and chaos? Everyone likes her, and due to her unpredictability, she doesn't get pigeon holed.

This is the danger of episodic releases. You can paint yourself into a corner even when your outline takes everything into account, as true masterful craftsmanship is required to account for controlling your audience before they even see your work.

 

[Burt Reynolds Mustache]

That's the thing with episodic releases and something a lot of developers on here fail to understand - your initial episodes set your story up, yes, but they also cement expectations in the reader/player's mind. It is perfectly illustrated in the way some members here react to the characters. Alice is initially nice, friendly to MC, flirty with MC? Players have found their waifu and will brook no competition. Leah is introduced as a bitch on wheels? Her mid-stream changeover is distrusted. Melody is initially shown to be a random force of perversion and chaos? Everyone likes her, and due to her unpredictability, she doesn't get pigeon holed.

This is the danger of episodic releases. You can paint yourself into a corner even when your outline takes everything into account, as true masterful craftsmanship is required to account for controlling your audience before they even see your work.

Absolutely great post here!

Games, especially episodic games have to set expectations EARLY! You can mess with them a bit later, but especially since the player in many ways inhabits the role of the PC the status quo needs to be very clear. It's why the structure of a game is at least as important as the story itself.

I always argued as an example that, had say, Big Brother STARTED with Eric dating Ann and he was a known quantity at the start of the game, the violent reaction to him would have been a lot less. It's similar here in that, had we at least known in like the first update or so that Alice had a fuckbuddy (and the MC didn't know who) then the Leah stuff wouldn't have come off as manipulative (I don't think it IS manipulative, but it clearly comes off that way to some) because it would have already been baked into the cake so to speak.

Hell, even a text attached to the images the MC finds (Something like "Cant wait to fuck again..." or whatever) could have worked just as well.

As for Leah, I always just read her as the Tsundere. So her antics during truth or dare weren't shocking.

 

[GaveMyHeartAway]

Perv. route = A manly, take no shit, sex machine (Rico Swavey). The other = Knight in shining armor, problem solving, sexy stud loved by all, over and over and over

There you said it bro...And this is exactly my main issue (and many other people as well, as I read through comments ITT) with this game. I have nothing against dev or writter don't get me wrong. I like this game, if I didn't like it, then I wouldn't be playing it, and discussing it here with you guys. I like to immerse myself, and enjoy characters like probably they (creators) did when they were creating them. That's why I presented my points of which parts of the game I disagree with (in my posts) and hope that it will get better, because like you said game is in early development I get that.
It's like you said it above, that's what paths should look like. But they don't. Well at least one of them, And many people dislike that aspect of the game. Specifically pacifism path. "Knight in shining armor, problem solving, sexy stud loved by all, over and over and over". Except it's not. It's more like "Submissive dumb little guy, that gets used and stepped on by everyone, punished for being good". That's what we are presented atm. Since when was it that, "being good" equals to "being submissive spineless retard"? The problem lies in presentation on one side, and expectations from players on the other side. Wrong presentation means that it will have some kind of backlash, like it happened here. And let's be real, when game started nothing implied at pacifism being submissive.
I still like this game, it has nice world building, great art, and currently the only thing that stands in it's way is presentation, and misunderstanding itself.

 

[rodneyeatme]

You can mess with them a bit later, but especially since the player in many ways inhabits the role of the PC the status quo needs to be very clear. It's why the structure of a game is at least as important as the story itself.

Specifically, at the beginning of the third act. As you said, structure! Structure is what allows an author to use preconditioned expectations of the reader/player to guide them or fuck with their expectations.

 

[armion82]

You made some great points here. I've tried not to reply to much this time around, and instead to just watch the discussions happen, but I like the points you made.

This is a mostly linear game. The same story, overall, will be told no matter what. You as the play can influence certain things, and those choices will have some impact, but I can say here right now that the differences aren't going to be so extreme that on one end of the spectrum you become a Sex God, and all women universally want to fuck you, while at the other end, you become an insect... Ok, that was a weird example, but my point is that the choices and selections you make will have some impact, but not enough that the game has multiple, complete, unique storylines. Keep in mind that this game is just FFCreations and myself; we simply don't have the manpower to plan, code, render, and release that much content in one months' time consistently.

Having the Episodic Format does allow us to read comments and make some tweaks along the way though, as we did with the 5.1 patch. But we can't do that all the time, and we can't let the comments completely derail the plan, or the game will feel like it was hodgepodged together. My number one goal when this game is done is to have people look back at it as a whole and say, "You know what? That story was actually really well put together. Let me play it again to see what I missed."

I am seeing a lot of people saying things about the perversion vs pacifism differences, so I hope that in the future releases you'll see where the differences will start to come into play. It's already clear with Susan, but how it will affect the other characters will be pretty obvious soon, I hope. @jaydem just summed up something I said before: in the previous updates, we were letting the player collect points so that they would be meaningful. Now that we have done that, the goal is to have true divergence in certain scenes based on what you've collected. 100% perversion or 100% pacifism may not even be the "best" way to go in certain scenes to come...

Ironically, one thing that I read and tried to account for was how much of a "bitch" Leah is/was. I tried to imply in this update that she's softening up and starting to like the MC more, but now people are questioning her motives lol. I kind of love the theories and the ideas people have because it means you're playing the game, but at the same time it feels like I can't please you at all. You think she's too mean... I make her less mean, but still act tough... Neither is apparently ok.

All I can do, ever, is write a story that I hope will be enjoyed. Keep the theories coming, though. It is fun to see what people think, even if it isn't entirely positive all the time.

So there will be a romance with Leah too?Cool,but seems I'm minority here.
Too many players don't like her at all.And for most of them will be impossible to redeem her after last updates.
Not sure if it will be be productive to waste time and resourses for that change in her attitude you said start already if most don't even want to have anything with her.Sadly you make her too good "villain".

 

[Ares02]

Ironically, one thing that I read and tried to account for was how much of a "bitch" Leah is/was. I tried to imply in this update that she's softening up and starting to like the MC more, but now people are questioning her motives lol. I kind of love the theories and the ideas people have because it means you're playing the game, but at the same time it feels like I can't please you at all. You think she's too mean... I make her less mean, but still act tough... Neither is apparently ok.

Well, the point is that Leah,
after an interesting start (first day) has been kind of "aggressive / a bitch" all the time, with a spike in the infamous "blue-balling night" of release 0.5
(I found her a bit awkwardly defenseless in that part, like "ehi, I'm trying to be gentle here, dumbass!!", but that's probably just me reading too much into it)
so, if after a "evil" evolution like that, she makes a turn and tries to be less mean*, the first idea that people get is that she IS being manipulative and is using her "charms" to give freebies to the MC to better handle him (yup, I like using innuendos in my posts)
So, I actually appreciate the effort, as Leah always gave me the vibe of the type that snaps at people because she is afraid of trusting others, and I would like to see more of this.
But at the same time, I can see why someone else could not be convinced and think she is acting. I think that keeping up the effort can resolve the issue, with time. Maybe even using some other narrative device.
(or maybe she IS acting... I still don't know how wide this Aggressive / Passive choice-system can diverge the story)



*: note, if that's what "less mean" is, I really need my female friends to be less mean to me...
just saying... XD

 

[FFCreations]

I'm with you on that point Brother.
I hope to, he develops the MC going forward......Perv. route = A manly, take no shit, sex machine (Rico Swavey). The other = Knight in shining armor, problem solving, sexy stud loved by all, over and over and over......Lol!!.......................Peace!!

Yes, you wanted your knight in shining armor. Just for you, I'll give you a sneak peak at the ending!

 

[jaydem]

Yes, you wanted your knight in shining armor. Just for you, I'll give you a sneak peak at the ending!

Sorry Brother, but I don't see a picture, just a small black box with an x in it and can't click on it. Must be missing something on my end.........Thanks anyway..............Peace!!

 

[elmandor]

Yes, you wanted your knight in shining armor. Just for you, I'll give you a sneak peak at the ending!
View attachment 83561

Man i hate that Leah bitch but what an ass:FeelsGoodMan:

 

[jaydem]

Yes, you wanted your knight in shining armor. Just for you, I'll give you a sneak peak at the ending!
View attachment 83561

Made my day with this one Brother.....Thanks :heartcoveredeyes:...............Peace!!

 

[YaYa_UnTIN2]

So there will be a romance with Leah too?Cool,but seems I'm minority here.
Too many players don't like her at all.And for most of them will be impossible to redeem her after last updates.
Not sure if it will be be productive to waste time and resourses for that change in her attitude you said start already if most don't even want to have anything with her.Sadly you make her too good "villain".

Hi armio82,

Spoiler

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[Burt Reynolds Mustache]

Yes, you wanted your knight in shining armor. Just for you, I'll give you a sneak peak at the ending!
View attachment 83561

Thank You, Sir Rico Swavey! Please, fuck us all!

 

[V.A. Laurie]

That's the thing with episodic releases and something a lot of developers on here fail to understand - your initial episodes set your story up, yes, but they also cement expectations in the reader/player's mind.

Games, especially episodic games have to set expectations EARLY! You can mess with them a bit later, but especially since the player in many ways inhabits the role of the PC the status quo needs to be very clear. It's why the structure of a game is at least as important as the story itself.

Agreed with both, but I also dare say that the episodic format is the perfect way to show growth/change of characters over time. Saying that Leah is a Tsundere is probably pretty spot on. Cold, stand offish, fighting with everyone, but now starting to warm up to MC. I'm not saying she's going to be MC's best friend in the following updates, but she is clearly changing. Or in the process of it. And that's not to say that by the end she'll be the sweetheart we all think/thought Alice is/was, but it's safe to say that she'll be a friend, at the very least. I don't think that's spoiling much.

I have backstory in mind for all of the characters to explain why they are the way they are. Except Melody - She's just wild. I know that people on here are upset about this, that, or the other, but I do still believe, and will continue to believe, that I can tell a story well. I will continue to write the story the way I have planned to tease out the details and grow the characters in what will hopefully feel like a natural way.

But the note that not every game is going to be an A+ hit is a pretty key factor too. I know for a fact that stories I write to entertaining. Writing stories (games, comics, books, etc) in an episodic format changes how the perception is. If I could write the entirety of the rest of the game and release it all in the next update, I think people may read through it all, and find that it all makes sense, and that it was a pretty good game. I'll keep on believing that until we finish the game and the reviews of the entire product start to come at us lol

 

[Burt Reynolds Mustache]

This just popped into my head but I think in some ways the fact that Alice has such a good-natured look to her probably works a little bit against the more feisty personality she is written with, especially in later releases. Compared to the other girls she has a very innocent appeal visually, and that sets expectations as well, especially when she is the only person who isn't busting the MCs balls for a few updates.

 

[Valeck]

Personaly i dont have nothing against Leah,one of my favorites characters in games(Jack ME)is a bitch.
What i dislike is the situation whit Alice,but im waiting to see how it goes.

 

[armion82]

This just popped into my head but I think in some ways the fact that Alice has such a good-natured look to her probably works a little bit against the more feisty personality she is written with, especially in later releases. Compared to the other girls she has a very innocent appeal visually, and that sets expectations as well, especially when she is the only person who isn't busting the MCs balls for a few updates.

She maybe act like the other Alice

Spoiler: Alice

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Damn with so many games that I like,is so hard to make a top 10 of the girls.Maybe I should go for top 20 or even top 50

 

[Siddington]

Ironically, one thing that I read and tried to account for was how much of a "bitch" Leah is/was. I tried to imply in this update that she's softening up and starting to like the MC more, but now people are questioning her motives lol. I kind of love the theories and the ideas people have because it means you're playing the game, but at the same time it feels like I can't please you at all. You think she's too mean... I make her less mean, but still act tough... Neither is apparently ok.

I mentioned it multiple times when update 0.5 dropped that I felt it could be an issue how Leah treated the MC. She has gone from "Get out of my way while I fuck your Sister" to seemingly liking him with a possible plan to get herself full of the Eiffel Tower at some point. It just seems too sudden. Did she have a moment of clarity overnight or while tongue deep in Alice, that actually the MC isn't half bad, has a nice cock and maybe she shouldn't give him such a hard time? Pun intended Clearly so, but if you felt the need to write even the ultra passive and sometimes utterly clueless main character to be confused by the switch, you can imagine why us slightly sharper real people mite see her actions as less than genuine? Especially considering the odd slip of the tongue from Alice that hints at "planning" behind the scenes. I won't lie and say it won't be interesting to find out where it goes but I will say that this whole thing has still put me off Alice and made Melody the most interesting character going forward.

 

[rick87]

Saying that Leah is a Tsundere is probably pretty spot on. Cold, stand offish, fighting with everyone, but now starting to warm up to MC. I'm not saying she's going to be MC's best friend in the following updates, but she is clearly changing. Or in the process of it.

i'd suggest you don't force sex scenes with Leah and Alice on the players, well don't force any female characters on the players for that matter, always give a chance to avoid the sexual interaction, so that if the players dislike a certain female character they are able to avoid all the content with her.

 

[Yuri_Boyka]

that's exactly the point. after presenting Alice as a compulsive liar and a manipulative cunt i don't see any reason for the MC to romance her, unless the MC in this game is supposed to live his life as a mindless slave with no self esteem. i really hope in the next updates the romance is either scratched all together or at least there is a possibility for the player to reject any sex scene with Alice and Leah and move on to other targets like Melody, the teacher and maybe new characters introduced in the next versions.

this pls @FFCreations pls pls pls

 

[armion82]

i'd suggest you don't force sex scenes with Leah and Alice on the players, well don't force any female characters on the players for that matter, always give a chance to avoid the sexual interaction, so that if the players dislike a certain female character they are able to avoid all the content with her.

I doubt that can be done.After all Alice is the main LI.For Leah there is some chance but that will also lock any possible threesome with Alice and Leah.
Realy interesting to see how in so many games people actualy ask MC to not have sex with some girls.
In MSN many don't want the mother.In PL is the sister and the wife of MC.I won't go to BB or API.