VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch. 9 v0.60c] [NeonGhosts]

[Dessolos]

Which one is she?

Brittani's mother

 

[Dark Silence]

Brittani's mother

Haven't met her yet. I will once the update with Gabby drops.

 

[Drew Anderson]

It's a reaction to the fact I avoided Risa as much as possible to start with. I don't know her and I wouldn't run off to a drug den to save her. As I said, I haven't played it yet and I won't until Gabby's path is updated. But a drug related path where Guy gets his ass kicked? Yeah, no thanks. Risa gets what she gets after.

I very seriously doubt this will end in a fist fight. If Lucien is who I think most suspect he is, he's not going to get physical or tell his goons to get physical.

I like player agency as much as the next guy (no pun intended), but there's plenty in games where the player doesn't get to control where they go or what situation they end up in.

I mean, the plot was gonna take us to the drug den one way or another because it seems very key to the plot. Would it have been better if Guy were clubbed over the head and taken there by force?

 

[Dark Silence]

I very seriously doubt this will end in a fist fight. If Lucien is who I think most suspect he is, he's not going to get physical or tell his goons to get physical.

I like player agency as much as the next guy (no pun intended), but there's plenty in games where the player doesn't get to control where they go or what situation they end up in.

I mean, the plot was gonna take us to the drug den one way or another because it seems very key to the plot. Would it have been better if Guy were clubbed over the head and taken there by force?

Either way, don't care now. I'm only on Gabby's path on one save and Mason on another save. Each of those will put Risa on the dark path. It's obvious it will be part of the game for awhile. If not, then hopefully we get a choice to not associate with Risa after this. If that choice happens, then I can easily forget about her again.

 

[Dessolos]

Sometimes feels like im the odd one out here as I have zero interest in Gabby or Mason as a LI but rather just be there to help them out / friends. Just now realized that thinking about how Id rank the LI in this game lol

 

[Dark Silence]

Sometimes feels like im the odd one out here as I have zero interest in Gabby or Mason as a LI but rather just be there to help them out / friends.

We're all different. Most prefer the big titty girls and Gabby and Mason doesn't fit that mold. I prefer itty bitties.

 

[sagerock820]

We're all different. Most prefer the big titty girls and Gabby and Mason doesn't fit that mold. I prefer itty bitties.

Mason is ok but Gabby is my favorite.

 

[Dark Silence]

Mason is ok but Gabby is my favorite.

Gabby was my first and only choice until Mason was introed. Then I made a new save for Mason.

 

[Dessolos]

We're all different. Most prefer the big titty girls and Gabby and Mason doesn't fit that mold. I prefer itty bitties.

very true indeed yeah id say i'm in the middle where I prefer smaller ones - medium and sometimes bigger ones if I like the character alot however there is a limit on size no matter how good a characters. As im a believer in character over appearance however appearance will always play a part even if it's in the back of my mind and not something I actively think about or want to admit. As when thinking about these 2 I should have a interest in them as they are good characters so far but just don't. However Mason also has that layer where id feel I'm taking advantage of him. So maybe if we ever get to open up Mason's path in a way I don't feel like im taking advantage I might be able to like him as a LI then.

 

[ename144]

I appreciate the detailed review! That said, I'd file a lot of your critiques under simple difference of opinion/story preferences. Everyone has their thoughts about what the game should be, or where it should go. Everyone has their favorite characters. Everyone's someone's least favorite character, until I write a scene that makes the reader go, "Oh wait, I love them now."

The Lucien plot is what it is. Some people have had reactions that I consider a bit strange, i.e. "I'm feeling cucked by this guy," and I don't get that at all -- but okay. How much you like or dislike his plotline will probably vary based on how much you prefer a slice of life adventure versus something a little more focused and dramatic. But, I've been nudging things into place for this plotline to eventually pay off, since the beginning.

And I get it, there's a lot of balls in the air, and not everyone gets their time in the sun. I've said this before, but as the game progresses, I think a lot of this stuff gets easier to handle, not harder. As characters get their routes more or less locked in, and major sex scenes are finished for the love interests, there's just.. Less for me to juggle. As of now, a few of the love interests routes are more or less locked in. A few characters have had big, complex sex scenes, and won't need another. And if you squint, I think you can see the plotlines more or less coming together.

I'll just do a quick, top-of-my-head recap of what's going on with all the characters.

Spoiler

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You're welcome, and thank you for taking the time to reply. I do hope you're feeling better, too!

As far as the outstanding plot points, I still think you're underestimating the work ahead of you. The passage of in-game time is largely immaterial here, it's purely a question of player content. Sure, once the MC settles into a 'stable' relationship with the various girls it will be easier to justify jumping ahead to the next significant event in a given girl's path, and that's handy. But you're still going to have to allocate your time to writing those events. It's not enough to know the MC is in an off-screen relationship with a LI, we're going to want to SEE it continue to develop until the MC is ready to ride off into the sunset with one (or more) of them.

If the game is chock full of girls, that means each girl will get either very small slices of time we can't sink our teeth into, or she'll get larger chunks of content but need to wait several chapters between them as the rest of the cast cycles through the rotation. That's the rub. Bear in mind, this game is closing in on two years old and contemporary Cassie has yet to even appear on screen. Alex isn't much better off. Ideally the players will be patient, but it's hard to keep up the enthusiasm for a game when you have to go literal years between major scenes with your favorite LI.

Speaking of which, I take your point about everyone having a favorite, but there's a difference between giving a girl her time in the spotlight and allowing her subplot to completely brainwash the MC. That goes doubly for Risa who is not a major part of the MC's life the way, say, Nicki is. The idea that the MC would agree to accompany a girl he barely knows into a seedy den just to buy her drugs after she flat out lied to him is a hell of an ask. That goes doubly for an MC cruel enough to abuse Nicki and Viola to the point they'll flat out run away.

It's your story and only you know where this is going, but I cannot believe this is the best way to get there. If Lucien is going to tie into other aspects of the plot, one of those probably should have been what brought him to the MC's attention. If Lucien is specific to Risa's path, her relationship with the MC should have been much more developed before dragging him into her problems.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about this post makes it sound to me like you're saying the game is almost over. Is that so or am I just imagining it?

I don't think he's saying the game is winding down, but it does sound like he expects the girls to be a lot more passive once the MC settles into a routine with them. As I said above, I don't think that would work out very well in practice.

I doubt we will get a choice written in with the situation around Risa. It seems like this is possibly setting up the main conflict of the game. Which sadly I'm more interested in the Slice of Life type of gameplay and really was not looking for the darker conflict this seems to be setting up. Still waiting on next update.

Again like NeonGhosts said difference of opinion and what I'm looking for in the game. He had this planned from the beginning and has been working towards it.

If this was the plan from the start, it was not handled well. Risa should have had a much larger role in the earlier chapters.

I very seriously doubt this will end in a fist fight. If Lucien is who I think most suspect he is, he's not going to get physical or tell his goons to get physical.

I like player agency as much as the next guy (no pun intended), but there's plenty in games where the player doesn't get to control where they go or what situation they end up in.

I mean, the plot was gonna take us to the drug den one way or another because it seems very key to the plot. Would it have been better if Guy were clubbed over the head and taken there by force?

I agree, the MC will walk out of this unscathed (though possibly not without consequence), but that's just good old fashioned plot armor. There's no way a real person could know that when he made the decision to walk into the den, which means he must really want to help Risa despite the stunt she just pulled. That in turn implies that any future choices we have over how to treat Risa are just so much window dressing, and making the player doubt the validity of their choices is never a good thing.

Choice in these sort of games is always going to be an illusion, but it's a *REALLY* important illusion. Anything that chips away at that illusion is a serious concern, and yanking the reins out of our hands to advance a minor character's subplot is no small thing.

But I've said my piece on this and should probably give it a rest now. We'll see what happens.

 

[Dessolos]

Anything that chips away at that illusion is a serious concern, and yanking the reins out of our hands to advance a minor character's subplot is no small thing.

While I don't disagree with everything you said. I think the reason I personally don't have an issue with this yet. Is I have a gut feeling's it's more than subplot for a minor character. Otherwise it makes no sense to me why there wasn't a choice here. While we dont know yet im giving benefit of doubt here but yeah if it turns out to be a minor subplot and not something that leads to a major storyline ( for the MC not Risa) then yeah ill start to have an issue with the lack of choice here.

Edit : I do agree with what you said that she should of had a bigger role earlier tho as it does kind of come out of no where if it is a major storyline

 

[NeonGhosts]

I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about this post makes it sound to me like you're saying the game is almost over. Is that so or am I just imagining it?

Definitely not almost over, but we're kind of moving into that place where the end is more visible. Right now, I'm chasing a 'mid-point ending' I have in mind. That'll see several of the characters with their relationships to MC firmly set, and the MC's broader goals brought into focus, to align with his state of mind. At that point, I'd honestly love to put a bow on it as FiN: Part One or whatever, take a little time off, and then come back to finish the story.

I love these characters and this world, but I really don't want to be the guy who's on stage a little too long, and stuck playing to an empty room. :'D

 

[mr.AwesomeGameTaste]

so the current version on f95 doesn't have the dark content patch?

 

[Dessolos]

so the current version on f95 doesn't have the dark content patch?

I just went to his subcribestar and downloaded it there since it went public release and applied the patch from here

 

[SlapE]

so the current version on f95 doesn't have the dark content patch?

It does with the patch, you don't even have to download the patch either, you can just change "False" to "True" in the patch file inside of the game folder.

 

[Master of Puppets]

I honestly can't tell if this is really an overreaction to a small lack of agency on the player's part or a reaction to Risa's storyline in general. I mean, we didn't get a choice to go to the store for more coffee or say 'fuck it' and stay home either.

Do you... honestly not see the difference between something as mundane as buying more coffee and something as mind-numbingly retarded as walking into a drug den? Or are you just being deliberately obtuse?

 

[SlapE]

Do you... honestly not see the difference between something as mundane as buying more coffee and something as mind-numbingly retarded as walking into a drug den? Or are you just being deliberately obtuse?

I've always considered myself to be more of an acute, not an obtuse.












I'll show myself out now...

 

[Drew Anderson]

Do you... honestly not see the difference between something as mundane as buying more coffee and something as mind-numbingly retarded as walking into a drug den? Or are you just being deliberately obtuse?

Come on... you know the point I was trying to make. Sometimes the plot requires to take away some agency to move things along. If the plot advancement is THAT offensive to you, might not be the game for you.

 

[ename144]

Come on... you know the point I was trying to make. Sometimes the plot requires to take away some agency to move things along. If the plot advancement is THAT offensive to you, might not be the game for you.

The whole art of writing is positioning the characters so that they advance the plot on their own, without the cumbersome hand of the author having to pick them up and move them directly. If the story requires the MC to go into a drug den then it's up to the story to present an in-character reason for him to do so. It's not like that's an impossible task, but game didn't lay out the groundwork properly and instead dragged the MC to his mark with all the subtlety of an ogre.

Neon has already shown he's capable of more than this and I'd rather hold him to a high standard than turn a blind eye just to hurry things along. Maybe I only feel that way because I find Risa quite unpleasant, but I don't think so.

 

[Drew Anderson]

The whole art of writing is positioning the characters so that they advance the plot on their own, without the cumbersome hand of the author having to pick them up and move them directly. If the story requires the MC to go into a drug den then it's up to the story to present an in-character reason for him to do so. It's not like that's an impossible task, but game didn't lay out the groundwork properly and instead dragged the MC to his mark with all the subtlety of an ogre.

Neon has already shown he's capable of more than this and I'd rather hold him to a high standard than turn a blind eye just to hurry things along. Maybe I only feel that way because I find Risa quite unpleasant, but I don't think so.

This is fair and doesn't really contradict what I was saying. The agency was gonna be taken away. It's more the 'how' than that it happened. Could have been done better, I agree, but it was gonna happen regardless.