VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch. 9 v0.60c] [NeonGhosts]

[vez]

While it didn't bother me when I played it (probably because it gives us a perfect opportunity to take advantage of Risa)(dark path FTW), reading through your comments I have to agree -- it doesn't make much sense for Guy to just waltz right in a drug den for someone he barely knows.
I guess if he's enough of a dick you could explain it away as "that'll give me leverage on her", but it's harder to justify for a good path Guy, or if he has avoided Risa altogether.

Honestly I'm fine with it, but maybe this could be made smoother with some tweaks to earlier dialogue with Risa? Maybe making interacting with her non-optional.

 

[Joshy92]

Even if we were given the choice not to go in the drug den I still would have.
Because I would be worried about letting Risa go somewhere shady like that by herself.

Especially once I saw how scared & upset she was.

 

[Alfius]

But when it comes to a choice to take a Addict into a Drug den to score them a fix we get no choice.

To be fair, the choice was not to drive her to a Drug Den, but to drive her home.

I think most sane people would help someone you know in getting back home. And when asked directly, giving someone a lift is not such a big deal.

Once there, I think he just wants to get out of there with as soon as possible. (Why he offered her money to just get it over with)

 

[Dark Silence]

Even if we were given the choice not to go in the drug den I still would have.
Because I would be worried about letting Risa go somewhere shady like that by herself.

Especially once I saw how scared & upset she was.

I personally couldn't give two shits what happens to her. I never engaged her in convo, except when it was forced. Now I'll have to deal with this whole forced bs. Which means she gets forced onto the dark path.

 

[NeonGhosts]

Here's a fun anecdote, take it for what it's worth: I visited Istanbul, Turkey last February. My first time out of the country, and I visited a country where I stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't speak the language, and had only a passing familiarity with the history and culture of the region. Also, this is right around the time a series of devastating earthquakes killed tens of thousands of people. On my first day there I rolled out of bed, and was wandering around looking for a coffee shop. A guy approached me, introduces himself as Rafael, and asked what I was looking for.

"Coffee? Abi, abi you come, my store's just over here," says my new friend.

So, I follow this random dude, thinking he owns a coffee shop. Nope! Homeboy owns a rug store -- El Rincon De Fehmi, if you're ever in the neighborhood. He makes me some Turkish coffee, he tells me which restaurants I should visit, which tourist places to avoid, and eventually talks me into buying a rug. "For your mother, she'll love it."

I take the rug and go back to my hotel. A few days later, I decide to hit up a pharmacy for a few things. On my way, a guy working near a kiosk sees me wandering, and asks what I'm looking for.

"Pharmacy? Abi, is one right over here. My name is Sancar, come."

Now, I know where the pharmacy is. I've been there already. But, he begins to lead me down a winding alleyway that runs parallel to the street I need to be on. I'm a little leery, until he leads me by a storefront and explains, "This is my place, maybe you come by after we visit pharmacy, eh?" So, I get it. I'm growing accustomed to the sales tactics of Turkish folk.

I go in the pharmacy, buy what I need, and find my guide waiting outside. "Abi, abi, why don't you come to my store? I make us some tea, you sit and talk." Now, I've got a friend waiting in my hotel. I really don't feel like having tea, but fuck it. It's my first time abroad - why not experience some things?

So, Sancar leads me into his storefront, which I realize is actually just a very long hallway, with various offices and other stores inside it. But, most of the lights are out, and my sketchy bullshit sense is lighting up. Eventually we arrive at a modest rug store, and he hurriedly makes me some tea. As he's doing so, a young kid filters into the room, along with three adult men. Sketchy bullshit sense is screaming now, but I tell it to quite down.

Unlike Rafael, Sancar launches right into the hard sell, and starts slapping rugs down on the floor. I tell him, firmly but politely, I already bought one rug on this trip. I can't be going home with a suitcase full of rugs and baklava. He proceeds to get aggressive. "I help you find pharmacy, I give you tea, I welcome you here to my country, my store, and this is how you repay me?!"

In the end, I bought a table runner for $10, and gave his son 5 lira as a tip.

When I told this story to my best friend, she was aghast. "Stop following strange men into rug stores, you fucking idiot!"

When I came back to my hotel and my friend who was staying with me saw I'd gotten another Turkish textile product, she put her face in her hands and said, "Howwwwww?!"

Now, why did I tell this very long story? To explain that sometimes even smart, capable, people make bad decisions. My bullshit sense was screaming at me to turn around and go back to my hotel, and I didn't listen, putting myself into a potentially dangerous situation. Why? Well, a few reasons. I'm a fairly big, athletic sort of guy. I work a dangerous job. I grew up in an environment where I was around drug dealers and criminals. I'm not easily intimidated, and that sometimes blinds me to the fact that bad things can happen to me.

Now, let's recap some things about Guy:

• He worked for years at a shitty neighborhood convenience store, where he's likely dealt with all manner of drunks, homeless people, etc.
• He's been rich for all of four and a half months, living the 'good life' for three.
• He previously lived in a shitty studio apartment with peeling paint, in a neighborhood where his building is still regularly tagged with graffiti.
• He's newly fit, and feeling a bit tougher than he's used to.

So, this guy who's accustomed to dealing with the public, who's lived in a neighborhood where he had to be on guard, and who's still getting used to not being a skinny-fat lump, agrees to drive a girl home. She leads him to a shady place, he tries to get out of it, and she makes it pretty clear he has two options: go in with her, or have her make a scene, and attract attention. So, he ignores his good sense and says, "Fuck it, let's get this over with."

Is it smart? No! People do dumb things, for dumb reasons. But, it's not like he walked into a building that said, "CREEPY SCARRED WEIRDO WITH A HALF-NAKED GIRL, HERE!" It's an abandoned building, and Risa's dealer was just as likely to be a stoned teenager watching Rick and Morty.

And again, if you're wondering why you can't just skip the whole scene.. I don't know, probably the same reason you don't get to pick whether or not you take Mason in, or give Nicki money, or buy Cassie a swimsuit, or have a photoshoot with Brittani, or get involved with the movie project Ashe is working on -- all things people have complained weren't optional, by the way. Because this isn't a free-roam game where you have unlimited options. It's a story where you get to guide it at certain junctures. I can't plan for everything that everyone wants.

I've talked about this before, but there seems to be this perception sometimes that, because I allow a lot of options, I should allow all the options. And it's a critique I don't see leveled at games which are much more linear, and restrictive.

 

[atrebor68]

Here's a fun anecdote, take it for what it's worth: I visited Istanbul, Turkey last February. My first time out of the country, and I visited a country where I stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't speak the language, and had only a passing familiarity with the history and culture of the region. Also, this is right around the time a series of devastating earthquakes killed tens of thousands of people. On my first day there I rolled out of bed, and was wandering around looking for a coffee shop. A guy approached me, introduces himself as Rafael, and asked what I was looking for.

"Coffee? Abi, abi you come, my store's just over here," says my new friend.

So, I follow this random dude, thinking he owns a coffee shop. Nope! Homeboy owns a rug store -- El Rincon De Fehmi, if you're ever in the neighborhood. He makes me some Turkish coffee, he tells me which restaurants I should visit, which tourist places to avoid, and eventually talks me into buying a rug. "For your mother, she'll love it."

I take the rug and go back to my hotel. A few days later, I decide to hit up a pharmacy for a few things. On my way, a guy working near a kiosk sees me wandering, and asks what I'm looking for.

"Pharmacy? Abi, is one right over here. My name is Sancar, come."

Now, I know where the pharmacy is. I've been there already. But, he begins to lead me down a winding alleyway that runs parallel to the street I need to be on. I'm a little leery, until he leads me by a storefront and explains, "This is my place, maybe you come by after we visit pharmacy, eh?" So, I get it. I'm growing accustomed to the sales tactics of Turkish folk.

I go in the pharmacy, buy what I need, and find my guide waiting outside. "Abi, abi, why don't you come to my store? I make us some tea, you sit and talk." Now, I've got a friend waiting in my hotel. I really don't feel like having tea, but fuck it. It's my first time abroad - why not experience some things?

So, Sancar leads me into his storefront, which I realize is actually just a very long hallway, with various offices and other stores inside it. But, most of the lights are out, and my sketchy bullshit sense is lighting up. Eventually we arrive at a modest rug store, and he hurriedly makes me some tea. As he's doing so, a young kid filters into the room, along with three adult men. Sketchy bullshit sense is screaming now, but I tell it to quite down.

Unlike Rafael, Sancar launches right into the hard sell, and starts slapping rugs down on the floor. I tell him, firmly but politely, I already bought one rug on this trip. I can't be going home with a suitcase full of rugs and baklava. He proceeds to get aggressive. "I help you find pharmacy, I give you tea, I welcome you here to my country, my store, and this is how you repay me?!"

In the end, I bought a table runner for $10, and gave his son 5 lira as a tip.

When I told this story to my best friend, she was aghast. "Stop following strange men into rug stores, you fucking idiot!"

When I came back to my hotel and my friend who was staying with me saw I'd gotten another Turkish textile product, she put her face in her hands and said, "Howwwwww?!"

Now, why did I tell this very long story? To explain that sometimes even smart, capable, people make bad decisions. My bullshit sense was screaming at me to turn around and go back to my hotel, and I didn't listen, putting myself into a potentially dangerous situation. Why? Well, a few reasons. I'm a fairly big, athletic sort of guy. I work a dangerous job. I grew up in an environment where I was around drug dealers and criminals. I'm not easily intimidated, and that sometimes blinds me to the fact that bad things can happen to me.

Now, let's recap some things about Guy:

• He worked for years at a shitty neighborhood convenience store, where he's likely dealt with all manner of drunks, homeless people, etc.
• He's been rich for all of four and a half months, living the 'good life' for three.
• He previously lived in a shitty studio apartment with peeling paint, in a neighborhood where his building is still regularly tagged with graffiti.
• He's newly fit, and feeling a bit tougher than he's used to.

So, this guy who's accustomed to dealing with the public, who's lived in a neighborhood where he had to be on guard, and who's still getting used to not being a skinny-fat lump, agrees to drive a girl home. She leads him to a shady place, he tries to get out of it, and she makes it pretty clear he has two options: go in with her, or have her make a scene, and attract attention. So, he ignores his good sense and says, "Fuck it, let's get this over with."

Is it smart? No! People do dumb things, for dumb reasons. But, it's not like he walked into a building that said, "CREEPY SCARRED WEIRDO WITH A HALF-NAKED GIRL, HERE!" It's an abandoned building, and Risa's dealer was just as likely to be a stoned teenager watching Rick and Morty.

And again, if you're wondering why you can't just skip the whole scene.. I don't know, probably the same reason you don't get to pick whether or not you take Mason in, or give Nicki money, or buy Cassie a swimsuit, or have a photoshoot with Brittani, or get involved with the movie project Ashe is working on -- all things people have complained weren't optional, by the way. Because this isn't a free-roam game where you have unlimited options. It's a story where you get to guide it at certain junctures. I can't plan for everything that everyone wants.

I've talked about this before, but there seems to be this perception sometimes that, because I allow a lot of options, I should allow all the options. And it's a critique I don't see leveled at games which are much more linear, and restrictive.

One time ago I went to turkey with my wife for a speed holiday of 4 day. She's a normal but pretty woman.
Here in our country she dresses quite "not covered". For the holiday in turkey she naturally brought fairly covering clothes.
I've never seen so many men go to try a sexual approach as I moved half a meter away. Also waiters, orderlies etc. Beatiful country but still a little dangerous for western-mind people.

 

[armond]

Here's a fun anecdote, take it for what it's worth: I visited Istanbul, Turkey last February. My first time out of the country, and I visited a country where I stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't speak the language, and had only a passing familiarity with the history and culture of the region. Also, this is right around the time a series of devastating earthquakes killed tens of thousands of people. On my first day there I rolled out of bed, and was wandering around looking for a coffee shop. A guy approached me, introduces himself as Rafael, and asked what I was looking for.

"Coffee? Abi, abi you come, my store's just over here," says my new friend.

So, I follow this random dude, thinking he owns a coffee shop. Nope! Homeboy owns a rug store -- El Rincon De Fehmi, if you're ever in the neighborhood. He makes me some Turkish coffee, he tells me which restaurants I should visit, which tourist places to avoid, and eventually talks me into buying a rug. "For your mother, she'll love it."

I take the rug and go back to my hotel. A few days later, I decide to hit up a pharmacy for a few things. On my way, a guy working near a kiosk sees me wandering, and asks what I'm looking for.

"Pharmacy? Abi, is one right over here. My name is Sancar, come."

Now, I know where the pharmacy is. I've been there already. But, he begins to lead me down a winding alleyway that runs parallel to the street I need to be on. I'm a little leery, until he leads me by a storefront and explains, "This is my place, maybe you come by after we visit pharmacy, eh?" So, I get it. I'm growing accustomed to the sales tactics of Turkish folk.

I go in the pharmacy, buy what I need, and find my guide waiting outside. "Abi, abi, why don't you come to my store? I make us some tea, you sit and talk." Now, I've got a friend waiting in my hotel. I really don't feel like having tea, but fuck it. It's my first time abroad - why not experience some things?

So, Sancar leads me into his storefront, which I realize is actually just a very long hallway, with various offices and other stores inside it. But, most of the lights are out, and my sketchy bullshit sense is lighting up. Eventually we arrive at a modest rug store, and he hurriedly makes me some tea. As he's doing so, a young kid filters into the room, along with three adult men. Sketchy bullshit sense is screaming now, but I tell it to quite down.

Unlike Rafael, Sancar launches right into the hard sell, and starts slapping rugs down on the floor. I tell him, firmly but politely, I already bought one rug on this trip. I can't be going home with a suitcase full of rugs and baklava. He proceeds to get aggressive. "I help you find pharmacy, I give you tea, I welcome you here to my country, my store, and this is how you repay me?!"

In the end, I bought a table runner for $10, and gave his son 5 lira as a tip.

When I told this story to my best friend, she was aghast. "Stop following strange men into rug stores, you fucking idiot!"

When I came back to my hotel and my friend who was staying with me saw I'd gotten another Turkish textile product, she put her face in her hands and said, "Howwwwww?!"

Now, why did I tell this very long story? To explain that sometimes even smart, capable, people make bad decisions. My bullshit sense was screaming at me to turn around and go back to my hotel, and I didn't listen, putting myself into a potentially dangerous situation. Why? Well, a few reasons. I'm a fairly big, athletic sort of guy. I work a dangerous job. I grew up in an environment where I was around drug dealers and criminals. I'm not easily intimidated, and that sometimes blinds me to the fact that bad things can happen to me.

Now, let's recap some things about Guy:

• He worked for years at a shitty neighborhood convenience store, where he's likely dealt with all manner of drunks, homeless people, etc.
• He's been rich for all of four and a half months, living the 'good life' for three.
• He previously lived in a shitty studio apartment with peeling paint, in a neighborhood where his building is still regularly tagged with graffiti.
• He's newly fit, and feeling a bit tougher than he's used to.

So, this guy who's accustomed to dealing with the public, who's lived in a neighborhood where he had to be on guard, and who's still getting used to not being a skinny-fat lump, agrees to drive a girl home. She leads him to a shady place, he tries to get out of it, and she makes it pretty clear he has two options: go in with her, or have her make a scene, and attract attention. So, he ignores his good sense and says, "Fuck it, let's get this over with."

Is it smart? No! People do dumb things, for dumb reasons. But, it's not like he walked into a building that said, "CREEPY SCARRED WEIRDO WITH A HALF-NAKED GIRL, HERE!" It's an abandoned building, and Risa's dealer was just as likely to be a stoned teenager watching Rick and Morty.

And again, if you're wondering why you can't just skip the whole scene.. I don't know, probably the same reason you don't get to pick whether or not you take Mason in, or give Nicki money, or buy Cassie a swimsuit, or have a photoshoot with Brittani, or get involved with the movie project Ashe is working on -- all things people have complained weren't optional, by the way. Because this isn't a free-roam game where you have unlimited options. It's a story where you get to guide it at certain junctures. I can't plan for everything that everyone wants.

I've talked about this before, but there seems to be this perception sometimes that, because I allow a lot of options, I should allow all the options. And it's a critique I don't see leveled at games which are much more linear, and restrictive.

Come from the holy fire, perne in a gyre, and be the singing-masters of my soul

 

[Dark Silence]

Here's a fun anecdote, take it for what it's worth: I visited Istanbul, Turkey last February. My first time out of the country, and I visited a country where I stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't speak the language, and had only a passing familiarity with the history and culture of the region. Also, this is right around the time a series of devastating earthquakes killed tens of thousands of people. On my first day there I rolled out of bed, and was wandering around looking for a coffee shop. A guy approached me, introduces himself as Rafael, and asked what I was looking for.

"Coffee? Abi, abi you come, my store's just over here," says my new friend.

So, I follow this random dude, thinking he owns a coffee shop. Nope! Homeboy owns a rug store -- El Rincon De Fehmi, if you're ever in the neighborhood. He makes me some Turkish coffee, he tells me which restaurants I should visit, which tourist places to avoid, and eventually talks me into buying a rug. "For your mother, she'll love it."

I take the rug and go back to my hotel. A few days later, I decide to hit up a pharmacy for a few things. On my way, a guy working near a kiosk sees me wandering, and asks what I'm looking for.

"Pharmacy? Abi, is one right over here. My name is Sancar, come."

Now, I know where the pharmacy is. I've been there already. But, he begins to lead me down a winding alleyway that runs parallel to the street I need to be on. I'm a little leery, until he leads me by a storefront and explains, "This is my place, maybe you come by after we visit pharmacy, eh?" So, I get it. I'm growing accustomed to the sales tactics of Turkish folk.

I go in the pharmacy, buy what I need, and find my guide waiting outside. "Abi, abi, why don't you come to my store? I make us some tea, you sit and talk." Now, I've got a friend waiting in my hotel. I really don't feel like having tea, but fuck it. It's my first time abroad - why not experience some things?

So, Sancar leads me into his storefront, which I realize is actually just a very long hallway, with various offices and other stores inside it. But, most of the lights are out, and my sketchy bullshit sense is lighting up. Eventually we arrive at a modest rug store, and he hurriedly makes me some tea. As he's doing so, a young kid filters into the room, along with three adult men. Sketchy bullshit sense is screaming now, but I tell it to quite down.

Unlike Rafael, Sancar launches right into the hard sell, and starts slapping rugs down on the floor. I tell him, firmly but politely, I already bought one rug on this trip. I can't be going home with a suitcase full of rugs and baklava. He proceeds to get aggressive. "I help you find pharmacy, I give you tea, I welcome you here to my country, my store, and this is how you repay me?!"

In the end, I bought a table runner for $10, and gave his son 5 lira as a tip.

When I told this story to my best friend, she was aghast. "Stop following strange men into rug stores, you fucking idiot!"

When I came back to my hotel and my friend who was staying with me saw I'd gotten another Turkish textile product, she put her face in her hands and said, "Howwwwww?!"

Now, why did I tell this very long story? To explain that sometimes even smart, capable, people make bad decisions. My bullshit sense was screaming at me to turn around and go back to my hotel, and I didn't listen, putting myself into a potentially dangerous situation. Why? Well, a few reasons. I'm a fairly big, athletic sort of guy. I work a dangerous job. I grew up in an environment where I was around drug dealers and criminals. I'm not easily intimidated, and that sometimes blinds me to the fact that bad things can happen to me.

Now, let's recap some things about Guy:

• He worked for years at a shitty neighborhood convenience store, where he's likely dealt with all manner of drunks, homeless people, etc.
• He's been rich for all of four and a half months, living the 'good life' for three.
• He previously lived in a shitty studio apartment with peeling paint, in a neighborhood where his building is still regularly tagged with graffiti.
• He's newly fit, and feeling a bit tougher than he's used to.

So, this guy who's accustomed to dealing with the public, who's lived in a neighborhood where he had to be on guard, and who's still getting used to not being a skinny-fat lump, agrees to drive a girl home. She leads him to a shady place, he tries to get out of it, and she makes it pretty clear he has two options: go in with her, or have her make a scene, and attract attention. So, he ignores his good sense and says, "Fuck it, let's get this over with."

Is it smart? No! People do dumb things, for dumb reasons. But, it's not like he walked into a building that said, "CREEPY SCARRED WEIRDO WITH A HALF-NAKED GIRL, HERE!" It's an abandoned building, and Risa's dealer was just as likely to be a stoned teenager watching Rick and Morty.

And again, if you're wondering why you can't just skip the whole scene.. I don't know, probably the same reason you don't get to pick whether or not you take Mason in, or give Nicki money, or buy Cassie a swimsuit, or have a photoshoot with Brittani, or get involved with the movie project Ashe is working on -- all things people have complained weren't optional, by the way. Because this isn't a free-roam game where you have unlimited options. It's a story where you get to guide it at certain junctures. I can't plan for everything that everyone wants.

I've talked about this before, but there seems to be this perception sometimes that, because I allow a lot of options, I should allow all the options. And it's a critique I don't see leveled at games which are much more linear, and restrictive.

I get what you're sayin and I know that's the case. Which is why I now have to add Dark path stuff into the game, which I previously avoided. I have no qualms in doin so, but I usually save the dark stuff for a couple other games that I play. This game I wanted to stay on Good Guy's path.

 

[MF_DOOM]

Here's a fun anecdote, take it for what it's worth: I visited Istanbul, Turkey last February. My first time out of the country, and I visited a country where I stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't speak the language, and had only a passing familiarity with the history and culture of the region. Also, this is right around the time a series of devastating earthquakes killed tens of thousands of people. On my first day there I rolled out of bed, and was wandering around looking for a coffee shop. A guy approached me, introduces himself as Rafael, and asked what I was looking for.

"Coffee? Abi, abi you come, my store's just over here," says my new friend.

So, I follow this random dude, thinking he owns a coffee shop. Nope! Homeboy owns a rug store -- El Rincon De Fehmi, if you're ever in the neighborhood. He makes me some Turkish coffee, he tells me which restaurants I should visit, which tourist places to avoid, and eventually talks me into buying a rug. "For your mother, she'll love it."

I take the rug and go back to my hotel. A few days later, I decide to hit up a pharmacy for a few things. On my way, a guy working near a kiosk sees me wandering, and asks what I'm looking for.

"Pharmacy? Abi, is one right over here. My name is Sancar, come."

Now, I know where the pharmacy is. I've been there already. But, he begins to lead me down a winding alleyway that runs parallel to the street I need to be on. I'm a little leery, until he leads me by a storefront and explains, "This is my place, maybe you come by after we visit pharmacy, eh?" So, I get it. I'm growing accustomed to the sales tactics of Turkish folk.

I go in the pharmacy, buy what I need, and find my guide waiting outside. "Abi, abi, why don't you come to my store? I make us some tea, you sit and talk." Now, I've got a friend waiting in my hotel. I really don't feel like having tea, but fuck it. It's my first time abroad - why not experience some things?

So, Sancar leads me into his storefront, which I realize is actually just a very long hallway, with various offices and other stores inside it. But, most of the lights are out, and my sketchy bullshit sense is lighting up. Eventually we arrive at a modest rug store, and he hurriedly makes me some tea. As he's doing so, a young kid filters into the room, along with three adult men. Sketchy bullshit sense is screaming now, but I tell it to quite down.

Unlike Rafael, Sancar launches right into the hard sell, and starts slapping rugs down on the floor. I tell him, firmly but politely, I already bought one rug on this trip. I can't be going home with a suitcase full of rugs and baklava. He proceeds to get aggressive. "I help you find pharmacy, I give you tea, I welcome you here to my country, my store, and this is how you repay me?!"

In the end, I bought a table runner for $10, and gave his son 5 lira as a tip.

When I told this story to my best friend, she was aghast. "Stop following strange men into rug stores, you fucking idiot!"

When I came back to my hotel and my friend who was staying with me saw I'd gotten another Turkish textile product, she put her face in her hands and said, "Howwwwww?!"

Now, why did I tell this very long story? To explain that sometimes even smart, capable, people make bad decisions. My bullshit sense was screaming at me to turn around and go back to my hotel, and I didn't listen, putting myself into a potentially dangerous situation. Why? Well, a few reasons. I'm a fairly big, athletic sort of guy. I work a dangerous job. I grew up in an environment where I was around drug dealers and criminals. I'm not easily intimidated, and that sometimes blinds me to the fact that bad things can happen to me.

Now, let's recap some things about Guy:

• He worked for years at a shitty neighborhood convenience store, where he's likely dealt with all manner of drunks, homeless people, etc.
• He's been rich for all of four and a half months, living the 'good life' for three.
• He previously lived in a shitty studio apartment with peeling paint, in a neighborhood where his building is still regularly tagged with graffiti.
• He's newly fit, and feeling a bit tougher than he's used to.

So, this guy who's accustomed to dealing with the public, who's lived in a neighborhood where he had to be on guard, and who's still getting used to not being a skinny-fat lump, agrees to drive a girl home. She leads him to a shady place, he tries to get out of it, and she makes it pretty clear he has two options: go in with her, or have her make a scene, and attract attention. So, he ignores his good sense and says, "Fuck it, let's get this over with."

Is it smart? No! People do dumb things, for dumb reasons. But, it's not like he walked into a building that said, "CREEPY SCARRED WEIRDO WITH A HALF-NAKED GIRL, HERE!" It's an abandoned building, and Risa's dealer was just as likely to be a stoned teenager watching Rick and Morty.

And again, if you're wondering why you can't just skip the whole scene.. I don't know, probably the same reason you don't get to pick whether or not you take Mason in, or give Nicki money, or buy Cassie a swimsuit, or have a photoshoot with Brittani, or get involved with the movie project Ashe is working on -- all things people have complained weren't optional, by the way. Because this isn't a free-roam game where you have unlimited options. It's a story where you get to guide it at certain junctures. I can't plan for everything that everyone wants.

I've talked about this before, but there seems to be this perception sometimes that, because I allow a lot of options, I should allow all the options. And it's a critique I don't see leveled at games which are much more linear, and restrictive.

Did you at least get some decent rahat lokum while you were there?
These things are delicious!

 

[TigerWolfe]

Stop following strange men into rug stores, you fucking idiot

She has a point...

 

[armond]

I get what you're sayin and I know that's the case. Which is why I now have to add Dark path stuff into the game, which I previously avoided. I have no qualms in doin so, but I usually save the dark stuff for a couple other games that I play. This game I wanted to stay on Good Guy's path.

Good Guy?

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Here's a fun anecdote, take it for what it's worth: I visited Istanbul, Turkey last February. My first time out of the country, and I visited a country where I stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't speak the language, and had only a passing familiarity with the history and culture of the region. Also, this is right around the time a series of devastating earthquakes killed tens of thousands of people. On my first day there I rolled out of bed, and was wandering around looking for a coffee shop. A guy approached me, introduces himself as Rafael, and asked what I was looking for.

"Coffee? Abi, abi you come, my store's just over here," says my new friend.

So, I follow this random dude, thinking he owns a coffee shop. Nope! Homeboy owns a rug store -- El Rincon De Fehmi, if you're ever in the neighborhood. He makes me some Turkish coffee, he tells me which restaurants I should visit, which tourist places to avoid, and eventually talks me into buying a rug. "For your mother, she'll love it."

I take the rug and go back to my hotel. A few days later, I decide to hit up a pharmacy for a few things. On my way, a guy working near a kiosk sees me wandering, and asks what I'm looking for.

"Pharmacy? Abi, is one right over here. My name is Sancar, come."

Now, I know where the pharmacy is. I've been there already. But, he begins to lead me down a winding alleyway that runs parallel to the street I need to be on. I'm a little leery, until he leads me by a storefront and explains, "This is my place, maybe you come by after we visit pharmacy, eh?" So, I get it. I'm growing accustomed to the sales tactics of Turkish folk.

I go in the pharmacy, buy what I need, and find my guide waiting outside. "Abi, abi, why don't you come to my store? I make us some tea, you sit and talk." Now, I've got a friend waiting in my hotel. I really don't feel like having tea, but fuck it. It's my first time abroad - why not experience some things?

So, Sancar leads me into his storefront, which I realize is actually just a very long hallway, with various offices and other stores inside it. But, most of the lights are out, and my sketchy bullshit sense is lighting up. Eventually we arrive at a modest rug store, and he hurriedly makes me some tea. As he's doing so, a young kid filters into the room, along with three adult men. Sketchy bullshit sense is screaming now, but I tell it to quite down.

Unlike Rafael, Sancar launches right into the hard sell, and starts slapping rugs down on the floor. I tell him, firmly but politely, I already bought one rug on this trip. I can't be going home with a suitcase full of rugs and baklava. He proceeds to get aggressive. "I help you find pharmacy, I give you tea, I welcome you here to my country, my store, and this is how you repay me?!"

In the end, I bought a table runner for $10, and gave his son 5 lira as a tip.

When I told this story to my best friend, she was aghast. "Stop following strange men into rug stores, you fucking idiot!"

When I came back to my hotel and my friend who was staying with me saw I'd gotten another Turkish textile product, she put her face in her hands and said, "Howwwwww?!"

Now, why did I tell this very long story? To explain that sometimes even smart, capable, people make bad decisions. My bullshit sense was screaming at me to turn around and go back to my hotel, and I didn't listen, putting myself into a potentially dangerous situation. Why? Well, a few reasons. I'm a fairly big, athletic sort of guy. I work a dangerous job. I grew up in an environment where I was around drug dealers and criminals. I'm not easily intimidated, and that sometimes blinds me to the fact that bad things can happen to me.

Now, let's recap some things about Guy:

• He worked for years at a shitty neighborhood convenience store, where he's likely dealt with all manner of drunks, homeless people, etc.
• He's been rich for all of four and a half months, living the 'good life' for three.
• He previously lived in a shitty studio apartment with peeling paint, in a neighborhood where his building is still regularly tagged with graffiti.
• He's newly fit, and feeling a bit tougher than he's used to.

So, this guy who's accustomed to dealing with the public, who's lived in a neighborhood where he had to be on guard, and who's still getting used to not being a skinny-fat lump, agrees to drive a girl home. She leads him to a shady place, he tries to get out of it, and she makes it pretty clear he has two options: go in with her, or have her make a scene, and attract attention. So, he ignores his good sense and says, "Fuck it, let's get this over with."

Is it smart? No! People do dumb things, for dumb reasons. But, it's not like he walked into a building that said, "CREEPY SCARRED WEIRDO WITH A HALF-NAKED GIRL, HERE!" It's an abandoned building, and Risa's dealer was just as likely to be a stoned teenager watching Rick and Morty.

And again, if you're wondering why you can't just skip the whole scene.. I don't know, probably the same reason you don't get to pick whether or not you take Mason in, or give Nicki money, or buy Cassie a swimsuit, or have a photoshoot with Brittani, or get involved with the movie project Ashe is working on -- all things people have complained weren't optional, by the way. Because this isn't a free-roam game where you have unlimited options. It's a story where you get to guide it at certain junctures. I can't plan for everything that everyone wants.

I've talked about this before, but there seems to be this perception sometimes that, because I allow a lot of options, I should allow all the options. And it's a critique I don't see leveled at games which are much more linear, and restrictive.

Why did you go to Istanbul at the winter time? It's more concerning than following those guys. I've been to Istanbul before and I should agree those guys hypnotise people to follow them. I am sort of cynical person, if I think something is sketchy I would not follow my best friend but I've been to that stores,even though not the same ones. They start with hi, what are you looking for and if you answer it, you'll find yourself drinking tea with people you don't know in a dimly lighted store thinking what the fuck am I doing here while you are keeping a friendly conversation.

 

[ename144]

Here's a fun anecdote, take it for what it's worth: I visited Istanbul, Turkey last February. My first time out of the country, and I visited a country where I stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't speak the language, and had only a passing familiarity with the history and culture of the region. Also, this is right around the time a series of devastating earthquakes killed tens of thousands of people. On my first day there I rolled out of bed, and was wandering around looking for a coffee shop. A guy approached me, introduces himself as Rafael, and asked what I was looking for.

"Coffee? Abi, abi you come, my store's just over here," says my new friend.

So, I follow this random dude, thinking he owns a coffee shop. Nope! Homeboy owns a rug store -- El Rincon De Fehmi, if you're ever in the neighborhood. He makes me some Turkish coffee, he tells me which restaurants I should visit, which tourist places to avoid, and eventually talks me into buying a rug. "For your mother, she'll love it."

I take the rug and go back to my hotel. A few days later, I decide to hit up a pharmacy for a few things. On my way, a guy working near a kiosk sees me wandering, and asks what I'm looking for.

"Pharmacy? Abi, is one right over here. My name is Sancar, come."

Now, I know where the pharmacy is. I've been there already. But, he begins to lead me down a winding alleyway that runs parallel to the street I need to be on. I'm a little leery, until he leads me by a storefront and explains, "This is my place, maybe you come by after we visit pharmacy, eh?" So, I get it. I'm growing accustomed to the sales tactics of Turkish folk.

I go in the pharmacy, buy what I need, and find my guide waiting outside. "Abi, abi, why don't you come to my store? I make us some tea, you sit and talk." Now, I've got a friend waiting in my hotel. I really don't feel like having tea, but fuck it. It's my first time abroad - why not experience some things?

So, Sancar leads me into his storefront, which I realize is actually just a very long hallway, with various offices and other stores inside it. But, most of the lights are out, and my sketchy bullshit sense is lighting up. Eventually we arrive at a modest rug store, and he hurriedly makes me some tea. As he's doing so, a young kid filters into the room, along with three adult men. Sketchy bullshit sense is screaming now, but I tell it to quite down.

Unlike Rafael, Sancar launches right into the hard sell, and starts slapping rugs down on the floor. I tell him, firmly but politely, I already bought one rug on this trip. I can't be going home with a suitcase full of rugs and baklava. He proceeds to get aggressive. "I help you find pharmacy, I give you tea, I welcome you here to my country, my store, and this is how you repay me?!"

In the end, I bought a table runner for $10, and gave his son 5 lira as a tip.

When I told this story to my best friend, she was aghast. "Stop following strange men into rug stores, you fucking idiot!"

When I came back to my hotel and my friend who was staying with me saw I'd gotten another Turkish textile product, she put her face in her hands and said, "Howwwwww?!"

Now, why did I tell this very long story? To explain that sometimes even smart, capable, people make bad decisions. My bullshit sense was screaming at me to turn around and go back to my hotel, and I didn't listen, putting myself into a potentially dangerous situation. Why? Well, a few reasons. I'm a fairly big, athletic sort of guy. I work a dangerous job. I grew up in an environment where I was around drug dealers and criminals. I'm not easily intimidated, and that sometimes blinds me to the fact that bad things can happen to me.

Now, let's recap some things about Guy:

• He worked for years at a shitty neighborhood convenience store, where he's likely dealt with all manner of drunks, homeless people, etc.
• He's been rich for all of four and a half months, living the 'good life' for three.
• He previously lived in a shitty studio apartment with peeling paint, in a neighborhood where his building is still regularly tagged with graffiti.
• He's newly fit, and feeling a bit tougher than he's used to.

So, this guy who's accustomed to dealing with the public, who's lived in a neighborhood where he had to be on guard, and who's still getting used to not being a skinny-fat lump, agrees to drive a girl home. She leads him to a shady place, he tries to get out of it, and she makes it pretty clear he has two options: go in with her, or have her make a scene, and attract attention. So, he ignores his good sense and says, "Fuck it, let's get this over with."

Is it smart? No! People do dumb things, for dumb reasons. But, it's not like he walked into a building that said, "CREEPY SCARRED WEIRDO WITH A HALF-NAKED GIRL, HERE!" It's an abandoned building, and Risa's dealer was just as likely to be a stoned teenager watching Rick and Morty.

And again, if you're wondering why you can't just skip the whole scene.. I don't know, probably the same reason you don't get to pick whether or not you take Mason in, or give Nicki money, or buy Cassie a swimsuit, or have a photoshoot with Brittani, or get involved with the movie project Ashe is working on -- all things people have complained weren't optional, by the way. Because this isn't a free-roam game where you have unlimited options. It's a story where you get to guide it at certain junctures. I can't plan for everything that everyone wants.

I've talked about this before, but there seems to be this perception sometimes that, because I allow a lot of options, I should allow all the options. And it's a critique I don't see leveled at games which are much more linear, and restrictive.

I'm afraid you've lost me on this one, Neon.

If your point is that Risa is a virtual snake-charmer who's easily able to talk the MC into something he would normally never do, I think you really missed the mark when introducing her character. If your point is that the MC is easily cowed into not making a scene, I'm struggling to see how that characterization aligns with the extremely twisted activities we routinely ARE given a choice about. If your point is that the MC is your character and you control what happens, that is obviously true - but I think this is going to be a much more significant stumbling block than automatically buying Cassie a swimsuit.

I also have to take issue with your final point. It's obviously impossible to allow ALL the options, but IMHO it's entirely appropriate to hold a game that offers lots of options to a higher standard than a mostly linear game. Firstly, because those options may be a big part of the appeal: the people who might complain about railroading in the linear game probably aren't playing it in the first place.

But secondly - and far more importantly - because the choices we make are presented as MEANING something. We aren't just arbitrarily choosing between scenes when we debate how the MC treats a woman, we're choosing what sort of person our MC is. The dots are supposed to form a pattern. The reality of programming means it tends to be a very impressionistic pattern and most players will accept that (with different levels of grumbling). But a single outlying point can cripple that pattern if it's in the wrong place, and a handful of outliers will destroy it entirely.

So I really don't think it's wise to be flippant about forcing choices on the player. It's one thing to say the MC has to interact with a girl, but it's quite another to say he has to defer to a girl when choosing how to treat the cast is *the* major selling point of the game. I'm sure we'll have opportunities to abuse Risa down the line, but that's a day late and a dollar short.

Again, this is your game and what's done is already done. But the next time a similar situation comes up in the future, I think it would behoove you to take a step back and consider if there are alternative ways to reach your end goal that don't override our ability to help/hurt a girl. If so, that's the sort of branching that should be a top priority.

If branching simply isn't feasible, then at least do your level best to set up the situation so it's clear why the MC's hand is forced regardless of the many different hands he might be wearing at the time. Half the problem this time is that both Risa and her situation sprung up out of the blue. If helping her was as plot critical as you say, it was clearly a mistake to make her interactions in the last update optional.

So yeah, I think this is a case where this game deserves critiques in a way a more linear game would not.

 

[ProtoJoto]

I liked the Risa drug-den scene. My feeling is that Lucien got her hooked, and has been reeling her in. He played her until she ran out of money, and is now ready to land her: she will soon be in the position of the half-naked girl he was photographing. She realizes this, and involves the MC as an act of desperation.

I hope the MC has the option, aside from just ‘saving’ Risa, to purchase her from Lucien: so that she is dangling from his hook instead (e.g. he could arrange to buy a large supply of her drug, and make an agreement that Lucien won’t sell to her directly anymore.)

I imagine that there are other possibilities that could arise with a collaboration between a dark-path MC and Lucien.

 

[NewTricks]

I'm afraid you've lost me on this one, Neon.

If your point is that Risa is a virtual snake-charmer who's easily able to talk the MC into something he would normally never do, I think you really missed the mark when introducing her character. If your point is that the MC is easily cowed into not making a scene, I'm struggling to see how that characterization aligns with the extremely twisted activities we routinely ARE given a choice about. If your point is that the MC is your character and you control what happens, that is obviously true - but I think this is going to be a much more significant stumbling block than automatically buying Cassie a swimsuit.

I also have to take issue with your final point. It's obviously impossible to allow ALL the options, but IMHO it's entirely appropriate to hold a game that offers lots of options to a higher standard than a mostly linear game. Firstly, because those options may be a big part of the appeal: the people who might complain about railroading in the linear game probably aren't playing it in the first place.

But secondly - and far more importantly - because the choices we make are presented as MEANING something. We aren't just arbitrarily choosing between scenes when we debate how the MC treats a woman, we're choosing what sort of person our MC is. The dots are supposed to form a pattern. The reality of programming means it tends to be a very impressionistic pattern and most players will accept that (with different levels of grumbling). But a single outlying point can cripple that pattern if it's in the wrong place, and a handful of outliers will destroy it entirely.

So I really don't think it's wise to be flippant about forcing choices on the player. It's one thing to say the MC has to interact with a girl, but it's quite another to say he has to defer to a girl when choosing how to treat the cast is *the* major selling point of the game. I'm sure we'll have opportunities to abuse Risa down the line, but that's a day late and a dollar short.

Again, this is your game and what's done is already done. But the next time a similar situation comes up in the future, I think it would behoove you to take a step back and consider if there are alternative ways to reach your end goal that don't override our ability to help/hurt a girl. If so, that's the sort of branching that should be a top priority.

If branching simply isn't feasible, then at least do your level best to set up the situation so it's clear why the MC's hand is forced regardless of the many different hands he might be wearing at the time. Half the problem this time is that both Risa and her situation sprung up out of the blue. If helping her was as plot critical as you say, it was clearly a mistake to make her interactions in the last update optional.

So yeah, I think this is a case where this game deserves critiques in a way a more linear game would not.

I disagree with your assessment. Guy has certain personality traits that are consistent between good Guy and bad Guy playthroughs and one of them is that he is indeed susceptible to influence and manipulation by women. For good or ill. In fact, most of his "bad Guy" actions are not acts of dominance but rather acts of malice in response to his humiliation regarding how these attempts to influence him make him feel. Bad Guy is not a Bad Guy because he has dominant traits, but rather he is just lashing out to overcompensate for his deep-seated feelings of inadequacy fostered over many hard years of disappointment and suboptimal outcomes with women. You can make decisions for Guy and change the direction of his life, but deep down he is still going to be who he is. In regards to Risa, I think that why he responds to her differently is that she makes no pretense of what she is doing when she is manipulating him. Perhaps he respects her more because she is so nakedly presenting her self-interest. Because it isn't quite as insulting to his intelligence when she is just boldly telling him what she wants and being direct in how she wants it.

 

[Dessolos]

You know despite everything with Risa the drug thing actually makes me like Risa more. Because Neon has ability to make me care for characters just from their facial expressions. When she revealed what she really was after she made a face that said to me im sad, desperate, scared, lost and need help and sorry all the same time. Sure she lied to and tricked us but because of what I felt from that one scene with her facial expressions I cant help but feel bad for her. Before I thought Risa was just a slutty lazy party girl or something. Now however with the whole drug thing she starts to feel like a character with issues where I want to be there for her. While I don't think she will ever beat Nicki , Ashe or Britt on my personal rankings but I think she will come close I think.

But before I put her down as a potential LI I like , I will wait for the next update but right now I think she will make on that list.

Edit : doesn't mean ill fully trust her either tho at least not for a long time. I would be cautious.

 

[MF_DOOM]

The whole drug den scene is kind of weird. Oxi is generally "rich people" drug and not sold in piece of shit places like that because "well off" people like that won't buy it from some shady street thug. It's not a cheap-ass street drug like heroin.

 

[Dessolos]

The whole drug den scene is kind of weird. Oxi is generally "rich people" drug and not sold in piece of shit places like that because "well off" people like that won't buy it from some shady street thug. It's not a cheap-ass street drug like heroin.

o was it oxi they were buying I never caught that thanks. I assumed I had to wait for the update to find out.

 

[MF_DOOM]

o was it oxi they were buying I never caught that thanks. I assumed I had to wait for the update to find out.

Yeah, she said "roxie", I assume she meant Roxicodone.

 

[Innocience]

You know despite everything with Risa the drug thing actually makes me like Risa more. Because Neon has ability to make me care for characters just from their facial expressions.

I had the exact opposite reaction. The entire setup is too convenient and casts a very bad light on a lot of her airhead / party girl antics. If I only ever so much sniff out the slightest intent behind those traits, a.k.a. she's aware of what kind of trouble she got Guy in, I'll make sure she'll end up like the girl on the couch.