VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [S1 v0.85c] [NeonGhosts]

[prpa]

There is inconsistency about it, but it's elsewhere -- the whole idea that supposedly "Guy was acshually unhinged, sexist creep the entire time and you can pick for him to have one misogynist though in the prologue to show it" kind of falls apart when otherwise all of his internal monologues about Nicki and in general are 100% positive, loving, respectful, grateful and whathaveyou. (until the last 5% where you choose to be a dick and he goes all Mr. Hyde) Which is harder to buy, because while one can act in front of others to fool them about what sort of a person you are, you don't fake your internal thoughts.

To be honest, evil Guy was always inconsistent, even in the original Chapter 1, he had internal thoughts that showed he cared about Nicki.

But then rectifying it would require quite a bit more writing, since you'd basically have to write 2-3 different Guys.

 

[Dessolos]

i like how all these peaple that dont like the dark path and dont play it give their opinion on it , you should let the peaple who actually enjoy it give the critics for it , you dont see us going around trying to force the way we play on the game

eh I do play it just I play it rather differently that most dark path enjoyers. I just want to see what happens to guy so I only read the dialogue and skip the sex scenes it just isn't my main path.

 

[BarbarianBallet]

Can someone tell me what's changed in the remake? Is it a re-write or art upgrades or what?

 

[ffive]

Can someone tell me what's changed in the remake? Is it a re-write or art upgrades or what?

Both. The renders were replaced with ones which match quality of the rest/late part of the game, and the prologue got large extension of backstory between Guy and Nicki, together with changes to your options how things can play out.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

As it is now, the first thing the reader learns about Guy-before his newfound wealth, before his family situation, before Nicki, before whatever else you can think of that might be important-is that he is the type of person who can be be suckered into gambling away his entire bank account by some guy on the internet who gives motivational speeches that wouldn't fool your average middle school kid. Now, I know from having played the rest of the game that Guy isn't normally like that and this is just a one-time stupid mistake that he only makes because he was drunk off his ass at the time, and even if I didn't the game does explain that immediately after. Still, if I were a new player and the first impression I had of Guy was from this scene, I'd probably expect his gullibility to be more of a core character trait and brace myself for scenes where he gets suckered into giving his newfound riches away or struggles to recognize when people are obviously using him or something.

The original intro starts with a couple of lines explaining that Guy has recently made a fortune and then explains how he got there, and I think the new chapter one should do this too. As long as literally anything about the main character is shown before his one big huge drunken mistake there shouldn't be a issue.

I'm sure for some people, naivety is a 'core trait', but I think for most, it's more of a perspective that's tempered by experience. Lots of people can identify with it, and have learned from it, and it makes for a good character arc.

I think it might actually be part of the problem. Players generally hate to be saddled with a loser MC and have dumb decisions forced on them for the sake of the plot, and this is now their first and thus potentially long-lasting (if not last) impression of Guy. "I don't want to play (or associate with) someone this dumb" is a valid reaction.

The previous iteration was more of a blank slate, with prologue being relatively simpler and done in rougher strokes. This one in comparison doesn't leave much room for interpretation. Guy is what he is, a paranoid, easily conned idiot and also maybe a creep.

At risk of sounding self-righteous, I think all of that seems like the player's issue; integrating themselves into the MC too hard to the point where they're sensitive to plot turns or character flaws and what not; and, imo, failing to sympathize with Guy's mistake. Guy clearly isn't dumb, that's proven in later chapters. He just made a mistake. This seems to be a common theme not just here, but in general in internet comments; someone makes a critical mistake, and you have a wall of people calling them stupid. I don't want to assume too much or come off as insulting, but I wonder if sometimes this is a projection of the player's own insecurities, i.e. they've held themselves to such high standards that fucking up like a normal person makes them a moron, and in turn are repugned by a character who isn't some hypercompetent hero genius.

Money doesn't change you, it just brings out who you always were deep inside

it's like why some people, when they're drunk they become violent, and some people, when they're drunk they become

a lovable little kitten kissing you all over the place

the alcohol doesn't change you, it just brings out who you really are inside


When nice guy gets money, he becomes a really sweet person because that's who he always was inside, but never had the chance

Well, I wouldn't quite say that. Some people get violent with alcohol because they have repressed anger or trauma. They might not be inherently violent, but bottled up emotions always come out violently.

And as for drugs, and wealth, and power, personally, I see most people as very complex and nuanced, and I think those things can tempt you in ways you aren't accustomed to, or drag your mind to darker places that you'd normally resist. The 'real you' is the person you fight to be every day in sobered thought, imo. Drugs and wealth and power can lose that fight for you.

It's like if you're married, and then suddenly a bus full of supermodels want to fuck you... you going to deny them to keep your vows intact? Or are you going to crumble to a fantasy you've had your entire life? Probably the latter. But, maybe the guilt eats you, maybe you lose your cherished marriage, and so on. But the next time you're married and that second bus load of even hotter supermodels stop by, maybe you've grown enough as a person to resist it. I hope I'm making sense.

 

[Pixillin']

At risk of sounding self-righteous, I think all of that seems like the player's issue; integrating themselves into the MC too hard to the point where they're sensitive to plot turns or character flaws and what not; and, imo, failing to sympathize with Guy's mistake. Guy clearly isn't dumb, that's proven in later chapters. He just made a mistake. This seems to be a common theme not just here, but in general in internet comments; someone makes a critical mistake, and you hve a wall of people calling them stupid. I don't want to assume too much or come off as insulting, but I wonder if sometimes this is a projection of the player's own insecurities, i.e. they've held themselves to such high standards that fucking up like a normal person makes them a moron, and in turn are repugned by a character who isn't some hypercompetent hero genius.

Self insertion is unavoidable and there is nothing the Dev can do to ease it really. People self insert in books and movies (hence the audience groaning and complaining when someone does something stupid in a horror movie). With video games it's even worse, and I'm sure it's one of the reasons for their popularity - people self insert to a greater extent because it's interactive and they get to make the choices.

Unfortunately, if the MC (and others) don't make mistakes, do dumb things and otherwise fuck up, there is no real plot. Perfect people being perfect and making all the right decisions isn't much of a story. Also, there is no way a dev can account for every possible choice a player might want to make. Every scene would take months to create and the file sizes would be massive.

So there's no fixing it. People are going to self insert (if they don't it means they aren't really enjoying it), the MC and other characters are going to do stupid things, players are going to complain about it and none of it can be helped.

 

[ffive]

At risk of sounding self-righteous, I think all of that seems like the player's issue; integrating themselves into the MC too hard to the point where they're sensitive to plot turns or character flaws and what not; and, imo, failing to sympathize with Guy's mistake.

Even if it was player's issue, getting self-righteous about it isn't going to change their impressions (of both character and by extension, the game) for the better. If anything, it's more likely to cause just the opposite, since no one really reacts favorably to hearing "this is fine, you are the problem".

But i also don't think it's entirely something you can attribute to self-insertion -- even people who don't self-insert in the character aren't obliged and often won't empathize with someone who's plain annoying to watch and doesn't invoke much sympathy as a character. Everybody makes mistakes, but it also doesn't mean that every mistake will be sympathized with, and some are bound to instead evoke just, to quote certain guardian of the galaxy, "booo hoooo".

It is especially easy to be dismissive or irritated with character whose bad impression is also the first impression they ever make. Because people tend to give a pass someone they've known for a while and feel some actual connection with, but this aspect is lacking when it's complete stranger.

And it does not help that those first impressions can be very long lasting.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

I'm sure for some people, naivety is a 'core trait', but I think for most, it's more of a perspective that's tempered by experience. Lots of people can identify with it, and have learned from it, and it makes for a good character arc.


At risk of sounding self-righteous, I think all of that seems like the player's issue; integrating themselves into the MC too hard to the point where they're sensitive to plot turns or character flaws and what not; and, imo, failing to sympathize with Guy's mistake. Guy clearly isn't dumb, that's proven in later chapters. He just made a mistake. This seems to be a common theme not just here, but in general in internet comments; someone makes a critical mistake, and you have a wall of people calling them stupid. I don't want to assume too much or come off as insulting, but I wonder if sometimes this is a projection of the player's own insecurities, i.e. they've held themselves to such high standards that fucking up like a normal person makes them a moron, and in turn are repugned by a character who isn't some hypercompetent hero genius.


Well, I wouldn't quite say that. Some people get violent with alcohol because they have repressed anger or trauma. They might not be inherently violent, but bottled up emotions always come out violently.

And as for drugs, and wealth, and power, personally, I see most people as very complex and nuanced, and I think those things can tempt you in ways you aren't accustomed to, or drag your mind to darker places that you'd normally resist. The 'real you' is the person you fight to be every day in sobered thought, imo. Drugs and wealth and power can lose that fight for you.

It's like if you're married, and then suddenly a bus full of supermodels want to fuck you... you going to deny them to keep your vows intact? Or are you going to crumble to a fantasy you've had your entire life? Probably the latter. But, maybe the guilt eats you, maybe you lose your cherished marriage, and so on. But the next time you're married and that second bus load of even hotter supermodels stop by, maybe you've grown enough as a person to resist it. I hope I'm making sense.

I get what you're saying, brother, but I don't quite agree

Yes, things condemn you, but at the end of the day

You still have Free Will and the power to say no if you give in to Temptation it wasn't the Temptations' fault, it was your fault

Take me, for example, I hate cheating. I think it's the most vile, disgusting thing you can do

My dream has always been a monogamous, loving relationship

I just think people would rather blame money, drugs, and whatever for all their mistakes instead of blaming themselves

if you have morals and principles and a strong sense of right and wrong, it doesn't matter what Temptations come

 

[_DarkDesires_]

Snip

Oh no, not muh soggy knee, the dreaded figment of people's imagination..

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Self insertion is unavoidable and there is nothing the Dev can do to ease it really. People self insert in books and movies (hence the audience groaning and complaining when someone does something stupid in a horror movie). With video games it's even worse, and I'm sure it's one of the reasons for their popularity - people self insert to a greater extent because it's interactive and they get to make the choices.

Unfortunately, if the MC (and others) don't make mistakes, do dumb things and otherwise fuck up, there is no real plot. Perfect people being perfect and making all the right decisions isn't much of a story. Also, there is no way a dev can account for every possible choice a player might want to make. Every scene would take months to create and the file sizes would be massive.

So there's no fixing it. People are going to self insert (if they don't it means they aren't really enjoying it), the MC and other characters are going to do stupid things, players are going to complain about it and none of it can be helped.

Yeah, I agree. I understand getting frustrated when a character does something unbelievably stupid, but falling for a crypto scam... it happens all the time. And it isn't just the poor guy 'loser' stereotypes either, competent wealthy people fall for dumb shit too. Hell, rich people's dumb ideas usually do far more damage than some drunk guy in a trailer park.

Even if it was player's issue, getting self-righteous about it isn't going to change their impressions (of both character and by extension, the game) for the better. If anything, it's more likely to cause just the opposite, since no one really reacts favorably to hearing "this is fine, you are the problem".

But i also don't think it's entirely something you can attribute to self-insertion -- even people who don't self-insert in the character aren't obliged and often won't empathize with someone who's plain annoying to watch and doesn't invoke much sympathy as a character. Everybody makes mistakes, but it also doesn't mean that every mistake will be sympathized with, and some are bound to instead evoke just, to quote certain guardian of the galaxy, "booo hoooo".

It is especially easy to be dismissive or irritated with character whose bad impression is also the first impression they ever make. Because people tend to give a pass someone they've known for a while and feel some actual connection with, but this aspect is lacking when it's complete stranger.

And it does not help that those first impressions can be very long lasting.

Well, you can approach a VN from the wrong angle, or just fail to understand or vibe with what it's going for. Like I said, a character falling for a crypto scam at such a young age is an entirely normal thing to do. I don't understand why this would push someone's buttons so hard. It does a good job setting up the story, and it makes for a nice arc for our character; the arc doesn't happen in real time, but with each time jump, you see how it's affected him, or how he's changed as a person. It's a very typical plot & character progression and it's relatable, I just don't see the issue.

I get what you're saying, brother, but I don't quite agree

Yes, things condemn you, but at the end of the day

You still have Free Will and the power to say no if you give in to Temptation it wasn't the Temptations' fault, it was your fault

Take me, for example, I hate cheating. I think it's the most vile, disgusting thing you can do

My dream has always been a monogamous, loving relationship

I just think people would rather blame money, drugs, and whatever for all their mistakes instead of blaming themselves

if you have morals and principles and a strong sense of right and wrong, it doesn't matter what Temptations come

Oh yeah, I agree with you mostly. I just don't think either is necessarily the 'real you', as in, it's static and never-changing. The 'real you' is whoever you're being in the moment; in other words, people can grow and change and learn from mistakes. I guess I'm probably not saying anything you don't already agree with, maybe I took you too literally.

 

[Lt.Isekai]

Yeah, I agree. I understand getting frustrated when a character does something unbelievably stupid, but falling for a crypto scam... it happens all the time. And it isn't just the poor guy 'loser' stereotypes either, competent wealthy people fall for dumb shit too. Hell, rich people's dumb ideas usually do far more damage than some drunk guy in a trailer park.


Well, you can approach a VN from the wrong angle, or just fail to understand or vibe with what it's going for. Like I said, a character falling for a crypto scam at such a young age is an entirely normal thing to do. I don't understand why this would push someone's buttons so hard. It does a good job setting up the story, and it makes for a nice arc for our character; the arc doesn't happen in real time, but with each time jump, you see how it's affected him, or how he's changed as a person. It's a very typical plot & character progression and it's relatable, I just don't see the issue.


Oh yeah, I agree with you mostly. I just don't think either is necessarily the 'real you', as in, it's static and never-changing. The 'real you' is whoever you're being in the moment; in other words, people can grow and change and learn from mistakes. I guess I'm probably not saying anything you don't already agree with, maybe I took you too literally.

my only insert with this is, I'm a hyper-observant, empathic, systems level thinking neurodivergent and i see both sides

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

Yeah, I agree. I understand getting frustrated when a character does something unbelievably stupid, but falling for a crypto scam... it happens all the time. And it isn't just the poor guy 'loser' stereotypes either, competent wealthy people fall for dumb shit too. Hell, rich people's dumb ideas usually do far more damage than some drunk guy in a trailer park.


Well, you can approach a VN from the wrong angle, or just fail to understand or vibe with what it's going for. Like I said, a character falling for a crypto scam at such a young age is an entirely normal thing to do. I don't understand why this would push someone's buttons so hard. It does a good job setting up the story, and it makes for a nice arc for our character; the arc doesn't happen in real time, but with each time jump, you see how it's affected him, or how he's changed as a person. It's a very typical plot & character progression and it's relatable, I just don't see the issue.


Oh yeah, I agree with you mostly. I just don't think either is necessarily the 'real you', as in, it's static and never-changing. The 'real you' is whoever you're being in the moment; in other words, people can grow and change and learn from mistakes. I guess I'm probably not saying anything you don't already agree with, maybe I took you too literally.

yes we agree, although I wouldn't call it a mistake

A mistake is something you do that you didn't know was wrong

People who cheat know that cheating is wrong, they just don't care

the truth is, if you know right from wrong and if you love your significant other than 100 naked men or women could come your way

You wouldn't care

I don't need to shoot a man to know that shooting a man is wrong

The Ugly Truth is that cheating doesn't teach you anything, and it's not a learning experience

Cheeter just says that to make themselves feel better

 

[ffive]

Yeah, I agree. I understand getting frustrated when a character does something unbelievably stupid, but falling for a crypto scam... it happens all the time. And it isn't just the poor guy 'loser' stereotypes either, competent wealthy people fall for dumb shit too. Hell, rich people's dumb ideas usually do far more damage than some drunk guy in a trailer park.

Well, you can approach a VN from the wrong angle, or just fail to understand or vibe with what it's going for. Like I said, a character falling for a crypto scam at such a young age is an entirely normal thing to do. I don't understand why this would push someone's buttons so hard. It does a good job setting up the story, and it makes for a nice arc for our character; the arc doesn't happen in real time, but with each time jump, you see how it's affected him, or how he's changed as a person. It's a very typical plot & character progression and it's relatable, I just don't see the issue.

It's not really the crypto scam that's frustrating, imo. This is a single mistake that can happen to anyone, like you mention. It's also something that was part of the original setup, and it was never a problem there.

The annoyance comes from then having to sit and watch the MC being at length established as nothing but completely spineless sad sack who can only meekly nod at everything he's told without any pushback, for apparently decade+ straight (okay, maybe 15 minutes real time but with how much the game tries to make the point it also felt like a decade irl, too) with zero ability to influence that personality outside of a single +-1 light/dark decision whether he gets annoyed at skimpy dressed girls or at people who catcall them.

Neon acknowledged/explained himself that prologue Guy is a walking bag of neurosis and complexes and is that drawn-out presentation without any respite that's potentially testing the player's patience how much of that they want to keep watching. Like ffs, at least let me decide if i do actually drive a brick through that Kobalt ad to feel a bit better (i'll take dark points for that if i must) instead of just having to listen to mewling how no, MC whose personality i'm supposed to have a say in absolutely wouldn't do that because Reasons, i guess.

(this level of Guy's debasement also makes it harder to buy his training montage arc suddenly doing away with all that in mere months, but that's another story)

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

It's not really the crypto scam that's frustrating, imo. This is a single mistake that can happen to anyone, like you mention. It's also something that was part of the original setup, and it was never a problem there.

The annoyance comes from then having to sit and watch the MC being at length established as nothing but completely spineless sad sack who can only meekly nod at everything he's told without any pushback, for apparently decade+ straight (okay, maybe 15 minutes real time but with how much the game tries to make the point it also felt like a decade irl, too) with zero ability to influence that personality outside of a single +-1 light/dark decision whether he gets annoyed at skimpy dressed girls or at people who catcall them.

Neon acknowledged/explained himself that prologue Guy is a walking bag of neurosis and complexes and is that drawn-out presentation without any respite that's potentially testing the player's patience how much of that they want to keep watching. Like ffs, at least let me decide if i do actually drive a brick through that Kobalt ad to feel a bit better (i'll take dark points for that if i must) instead of just having to listen to mewling how no, MC whose personality i'm supposed to have a say in absolutely wouldn't do that because Reasons, i guess.

(this level of Guy's debasement also makes it harder to buy his training montage arc suddenly doing away with all that in mere months, but that's another story)

I can't really agree or disagree with you on that, as I haven't played the new chp 1 yet. The only thing I'll say is that, to me, the original chp 1 Guy already kinda felt like a loser to me, albeit a relatable one, so I guess it's not something I'm concerned about. I'll find out when I actually play.



On another note, man... I regret going through and reading earlier comments I missed. There's some people who comment here who make an effort to be as rude and dismissive as possible when expressing their opinions to the dev, and then when he gives it right back, they have the gall to act like he's crossed a line or something. If you can't eat it, don't serve it.

 

[fovk]

Тhere is no patch for remake chapter1?

 

[Sether0]

Тhere is no patch for remake chapter1?

The is the same for all versions:

label patch:
    $ patch = True
    return

 

[Ragnar]

I have no problems with how Guy origin is portrayed in the Remake. If anything the new Guy is more in tune with the character description. He's been always described as nerd or otaku but in the OG Chapter 1 it was not that obvious. The remake has a better starting point because the game will show how he goes from a kind of loser to a pillar of the community (at least in the good Guy path).

 

[SASHAKAMEN]

why chapter 1 remake is separate game ?

 

[Jack Townsend]

I have no problems with how Guy origin is portrayed in the Remake. If anything the new Guy is more in tune with the character description. He's been always described as nerd or otaku but in the OG Chapter 1 it was not that obvious. The remake has a better starting point because the game will show how he goes from a kind of loser to a pillar of the community (at least in the good Guy path).

I guess that's the main complaint people have been making. That the Remake enhances the good guy path, but diminishes the evil path. Are they wrong?

 

[LWtbo]

I guess that's the main complaint people have been making. That the Remake enhances the good guy path, but diminishes the evil path. Are they wrong?

Thats an ongoing argument that can't be resolved... some will tell you yes it do's, others will tell you no it doesn't.
So the only way for you to really know which side you consider to be correct is to play it yourself and then you can decide.