Others Going Deeper [Beta 2.1] [NRFB Games]

[NRFB]

1) Ah, it's an engine problem? Good to know. I don't know how to improve the experience there, then, other then telling the player (or offering a y/n prompt to restart, if they change resolution on the title screen).
2) The alternative text option is better, my bad for missing that.
4) I went through the intro again specifically looking only at the portraits next to the textbox and honestly couldn't tell whether the portraits were ever being dimmed at all. I thought it might possibly be happening, but the monochrome style makes it hard to tell without a comparison at hand. I'd probably just remove them when the character isn't speaking.

1) Well like I said, there's PROBABLY a better way to go about it, I just haven't figured it out. Maybe I'm just doing my ui in a way that makes it inconvenient. I'm not sure. I believe there is text that pops up saying that display changes require a restart when you change the resolution drop down though.
4) I think my answer for this was oddly phrased before. Basically there are a couple of occasions in the text where I've had the main character narrating something about another character (mostly just after having first met them) and thus have kept that character's portrait there even though they're not speaking. It doesn't really matter, so I can probably just take it out the couple of times it happens.

I don't know what Locktober is, but... Oh fridge. You're telling me I need to level up some of the skills to unlock other ones? And from your comments about Elli's skills, it sounds like some of them are locked behind certain stat levels. So my "discover as many skills as possible by always getting the skill point and putting a single point into everything" plan was doomed from the start. And from everything else that's been going on, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a certain combination that's technically not even attainable in the current version.

Chastity is the only skill that requires another skill be maxed, although some other skills can have it as a requirement but then have an alternate requirement set (like spellsword). Chastity could probably have more than one requirement set. Although it is pretty useful, it's also quite an investment already having to max Purity for it.

(Incidentally, I'm not even the kind of min/maxer who plans out their entire build ahead of time. But I'm definitely the type who hates having no idea whether my actions are bringing me closer or further from my desired goal, or if something worthwhile even exists down a different direction.)

Yeah, and having an idea for how to build a character would be a nice thing for people to engage with and give a better feeling of control. I get it, it's just there's still so much stuff to add. If I changed plans from camp stuff and gave you a way to see all skill requirements, then you wouldn't be able to necessarily meet all of them anyway since there's no good way to manipulate the Knight's desires yet!

Edit: Oh yeah, I'm also really confused about Danger Sense. I've never taken the time to trigger it on purpose, but it sometimes activates at the start of a floor when Elli hasn't even had her turn yet, and never seems to activate in other circumstances like sleeping and masturbation that seem to trigger other "when character hasn't moved" effects.

Some of the weirdness is probably due to Danger Sense's "While Well Rested" thing. The counter for turns without moving counts up regardless of being well rested (it probably shouldn't), and is maintained between floors, so if you have a bunch of turns waiting in the stairs room for everyone to group up, go to camp and rest, then come back to the dungeon well rested, it'll go off first turn.

In any case I'm considering dropping the skill or maybe just moving it to an on scry effect anyway. Doesn't really feel good to use, and kind of fits better with scrying thematically anyway.

...Once I finally make it to camp. There definitely needs to be a way to skip past the repeated story events, especially when more get added. Having to click through the first curse encounter every playthrough is getting to be a bit much.

Esc key (will be in the keybinding menu but right now it's just this)

(Incidentally, a way to rewatch them would also be useful, particularly for the first Witch encounter that *doesn't* repeat on future playthroughs.)

Eventually this'll be a thing. Also you can rewatch the Witch cutscene if you don't take Spellcasting in NG+ (since she has to give you the hookups for magic again)

Lists

This all makes sense considering the state of the things that aren't working exactly as intended. I believe one of the curses you don't know probably needs a buff for its compulsion to kick in more easily, one of them you probably just haven't done the trigger for yet, and the third one you probably just didn't end up with the requirements all on one character to roll gaining it.

 

[Rosen King]

although some other skills can have it as a requirement but then have an alternate requirement set (like spellsword).

I haven't even seen that one. Hmm... Methinks I should try investing into Conduit...

(Speaking of which, I'm honestly not a fan of Scry having a separate set of effects for actually scrying or buffing your allies. Especially since darkness restricts you from being able to see any scenes, I feel like using it for anything but clearing out a dark room ahead is a waste. Admittedly, part of that might just be me wanting to make sure I don't miss the Aurora event *again*, I do feel it would be better if there was a separate "scry" and "enchant" spell with separate cooldowns. Though that might present thematic conflicts with the Exhibitionist curse, which should trigger off an enchant for gameplay reasons but only makes sense for scrying... Ooh, what if instead of reducing the cooldown for Scry by a tiny amount, the Conduit skill allowed them to have their own separate cooldown for a Scry that only affects where they're standing? Maybe even make it so that the buffs can only be granted for that type of Scry... although that loops back around to making the skill practically mandatory instead of being something I never pick.)

Edit: OH GOD THE SHOCKING ORB! AHHHHHH!
...Conduit is a risky investment for not a lot of payoff. I'd say "You get a free Scry and also you will fucking explode!" is a fair tradeoff, especially with the apparent investment required to unlock Spellsword, let alone upgrade it. Maybe also throw in a one turn "Channeling" effect that prevents them from taking any other actions, so it's slightly more risky to use it on someone who's already in combat.

manipulate the Knight's desires

Spoiler: O.O

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Edit: Wait, is this in any way related to those seal trap effects that don't seem to do anything?

I believe one of the curses you don't know probably needs a buff for its compulsion to kick in more easily, one of them you probably just haven't done the trigger for yet, and the third one you probably just didn't end up with the requirements all on one character to roll gaining it.

Damn, was hoping for a more direct answer. I'm the kind of OCD that can't focus on a more organic playthrough until I've got these checked off my list. I'm actually planning on ditching everything (including the accumulated KP) except for the completed research at the start of the next content update, which is why my last few playthroughs have been about trying to maximize my chance of getting these curses.

 

[WellIGuess]

Especially since clearing a floor means the heroines get a pittance 1 corruption.

That's not the case at all. In later floors you will easily see gains of 8-9 CP per floor.

 

[NRFB]

Update: I have a new build put together that I'm testing just a little more before putting it up anywhere. Probably have everything together for upload tomorrow-ish unless something major comes up. I've actually CONFIRMED that it works on Linux now rather than just trusting that it would without checking, so that's good.

(Speaking of which, I'm honestly not a fan of Scry having a separate set of effects for actually scrying or buffing your allies. Especially since darkness restricts you from being able to see any scenes, I feel like using it for anything but clearing out a dark room ahead is a waste. Admittedly, part of that might just be me wanting to make sure I don't miss the Aurora event *again*, I do feel it would be better if there was a separate "scry" and "enchant" spell with separate cooldowns. Though that might present thematic conflicts with the Exhibitionist curse, which should trigger off an enchant for gameplay reasons but only makes sense for scrying... Ooh, what if instead of reducing the cooldown for Scry by a tiny amount, the Conduit skill allowed them to have their own separate cooldown for a Scry that only affects where they're standing? Maybe even make it so that the buffs can only be granted for that type of Scry... although that loops back around to making the skill practically mandatory instead of being something I never pick.)

I get this, and I'm introducing a spell in the next update to try and help out with how people seem more inclined to use scrying (for safety and seeing events rather than for scouting ahead). I'll probably even end up putting the spell in the NG+ shop eventually, though not this update.

I am generally trying to avoid adding additional spells/cooldowns for the player to keep track of though, so I don't really want to split scry up.

Edit: OH GOD THE SHOCKING ORB! AHHHHHH!

Is getting nerfed in more than one way.

...Conduit is a risky investment for not a lot of payoff. I'd say "You get a free Scry and also you will fucking explode!" is a fair tradeoff, especially with the apparent investment required to unlock Spellsword, let alone upgrade it. Maybe also throw in a one turn "Channeling" effect that prevents them from taking any other actions, so it's slightly more risky to use it on someone who's already in combat.

Conduit might need buffed, although my intention with it is to make it more of a kind of 'unlock' skill? Like it's easy to get, and taking it tells the game that you want this character to build around magic and the Charge status, so it unlocks things around that idea. There just isn't enough Charge stuff to support it right now.

Edit: Wait, is this in any way related to those seal trap effects that don't seem to do anything?

Those do, in fact, do something. Although I guess I wouldn't blame anyone for assuming that allies make decisions about what to do in camp randomly rather than assuming that each ally has a full set of individual desires all increasing at differing rates that they compare against all available camp activities while assessing what to do/if they should do it with anyone.

Damn, was hoping for a more direct answer. I'm the kind of OCD that can't focus on a more organic playthrough until I've got these checked off my list. I'm actually planning on ditching everything (including the accumulated KP) except for the completed research at the start of the next content update, which is why my last few playthroughs have been about trying to maximize my chance of getting these curses.

Fine, fine. I've enjoyed your feedback and support and whatnot, so just in time for there to be two new curses slipped into this next update anyway:

Spoiler: missing curses

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That's not the case at all. In later floors you will easily see gains of 8-9 CP per floor.

Nah, he's correct. If you clear a floor of threats, the P Corruption cost to dispel will always be 1.

 

[MIC132]

This game has some great potential. Really liking it so far.

One thing - would it be possible for normal "move" command to take less clicking? For example allow dragging from the character's "token" to a room to "set target"? It gets kinda annoying if you want to micromanage the movement more.

 

[Rosen King]

Is getting nerfed in more than one way.

If you're doing a balance pass, you might want to take a look at the Deep Dreams Tea Set and Shadow Monster as well. I haven't been playing close attention to encounters with them because I've been rushing to test other things, but those are the other ones that tend to make me go, "Wait, what just happened to my character? Oh, it was that thing." I noticed that the Shadow has higher stats in the research log than pretty much any other monster, and being the only one to target Reflex might also play a part, but I haven't been examining stat values that closely yet. (In fact, because of my focus on identifying skills and curses, I don't think I've *ever* taken a stat point at the end of the floor yet. I wonder just how much of an impact that's really had...?)

Conduit might need buffed, although my intention with it is to make it more of a kind of 'unlock' skill? Like it's easy to get, and taking it tells the game that you want this character to build around magic and the Charge status, so it unlocks things around that idea. There just isn't enough Charge stuff to support it right now.

Hmm. See, this is one of those times when skill transparency becomes a major issue. I'm guessing the two possible triggers to unlock Spellsword (and the relevant Witch spells that I'm starting to see for the first time on this run) are investing two points into Conduit or getting the Actuator spell, which allow you to get Charge points on your characters. (Edit: I forgot there's also a spell simply called Charge, which I never take because it increases the cooldown of Scry.) As I mentioned before, I always chose Conduit last because it didn't seem to do anything (and I think at level 1 it still doesn't). Which means I never saw all these things that actually make use of Charges, and never had a reason to make the investment that would let me see them.

I also think you might be undervaluing skill points and/or curses, unless you plan to add more ways to get them in future versions. Needing to spend multiple skill points to unlock spellsword, assuming you're lucky enough to get the relevant skills to even show up on the list (and one of the only ways to refresh the list is to spend a skill point), is a pretty big investment for something that's treated mostly as an "unlock". (Edit: Oh yeah, and anything that's unlocked by leveling up existing skills is guaranteed to *not* be on the skill list until it's refreshed.)

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Conduit letting them cast a "free" (with its own cooldown, and possibly spending a turn) self-Scry. You say you want to avoid having multiple separate cooldowns, but I think it makes sense to optionally add one to a character who you want to give a "mage build". It'd also be thematically fitting for something like Elli's Limelight skill. (Or, uh... the Inquisitor's Limelight skill, which only affects Elli since you said Grace is exclusive to her. Kind of odd to tie that to them instead of the knight.)

missing curses

Huh. I can see why I wouldn't have triggered that first one. But I think the second one might be on you, and I suspect you may have already found and fixed the reason why. "Runty and weakling monsters"? I'm gonna have to start a new run (which I'm not ready to do yet) to verify that they even exist on the earlier floors, because they sure as hell don't on the middle and later floors. In the current version, that curse becomes completely harmless as you progress through the dungeon. But I've got a hunch that the monsters who haven't been appearing are connected to that, and are supposed to show up in middle floors in "weakling" forms before getting stronger later on.

Unless those forms are supposed to appear on every floor, and there's just an issue making everything "monstrous" everywhere you go. Now THAT would be a bit of a noteworthy bug.


On an unrelated note, I was just thinking about how this is the only erotic game I've played where watching a woman masturbate is something I want to avoid, and I had an idea. Casting Scry on a masturbating character should stop their masturbation, unless they have the Exhibitionism curse. It'd be more for flavor than actually balancing how crippling masturbation can be (Scry is still too valuable), but it could also affect relationship values when they're implemented (or made meaningful, if they're already present like the desires). If you scry someone who's masturbating, they'd normally call you a pervert and stop, but doing it to an exhibitionist will make her more eager to share her intimate moments with you.


Another random thought. When you start adding more mechanics to the Rage effect, I hope you add a skill or something where Raine builds up Rage as she spends multiple turns trying to disarm a trap, and once it's maxed out she just smashes the trap.


Edit: I also notice that I crash more often than not when I get a game over. I've seen the game over screen like twice, but I think I've died 5-7 times. I'm honestly not even sure if my latest death was even a death, or if I crashed from something else and lost my save as a result. Probably a death-crash, though.

 

[NRFB]

One thing - would it be possible for normal "move" command to take less clicking? For example allow dragging from the character's "token" to a room to "set target"? It gets kinda annoying if you want to micromanage the movement more.

Oh yeah, this is actually a pretty good idea. I'll look into seeing if I can make something like this feel good in the future.

If you're doing a balance pass, you might want to take a look at the Deep Dreams Tea Set and Shadow Monster as well. I haven't been playing close attention to encounters with them because I've been rushing to test other things, but those are the other ones that tend to make me go, "Wait, what just happened to my character? Oh, it was that thing."

Exhaustion threats in general seem to be more problematic than you would expect, yeah. It's already difficult to clear 3 threats in under 30 Exhaustion (although to a certain degree that's by design as part of general ongoing attrition in the dungeon), so dropping exhaustion damage numbers from enemies that hit it may be worth looking into eventually.

Hmm. See, this is one of those times when skill transparency becomes a major issue. I'm guessing the two possible triggers to unlock Spellsword (and the relevant Witch spells that I'm starting to see for the first time on this run) are investing two points into Conduit or getting the Actuator spell, which allow you to get Charge points on your characters. (Edit: I forgot there's also a spell simply called Charge, which I never take because it increases the cooldown of Scry.) As I mentioned before, I always chose Conduit last because it didn't seem to do anything (and I think at level 1 it still doesn't). Which means I never saw all these things that actually make use of Charges, and never had a reason to make the investment that would let me see them.

Getting the Charge spell unlocks a number of spells, yeah. And Conduit level 1 partially offsets the cost of using scry with Charge on that character (even more so after this update where I'm dropping the cooldown increase of the Charge spell to 2 from 3). Is it good enough? Maybe, maybe (probably) not.

unless you plan to add more ways to get them in future versions.

Yes.

(Edit: Oh yeah, and anything that's unlocked by leveling up existing skills is guaranteed to *not* be on the skill list until it's refreshed.)

This should probably be changed, yeah.

(Or, uh... the Inquisitor's Limelight skill, which only affects Elli since you said Grace is exclusive to her. Kind of odd to tie that to them instead of the knight.)

This is mostly because it was something I thought of while brainstorming a bunch of spells at once, but you've got a point, yeah.

Huh. I can see why I wouldn't have triggered that first one. But I think the second one might be on you, and I suspect you may have already found and fixed the reason why. "Runty and weakling monsters"? I'm gonna have to start a new run (which I'm not ready to do yet) to verify that they even exist on the earlier floors, because they sure as hell don't on the middle and later floors. In the current version, that curse becomes completely harmless as you progress through the dungeon. But I've got a hunch that the monsters who haven't been appearing are connected to that, and are supposed to show up in middle floors in "weakling" forms before getting stronger later on.

Unless those forms are supposed to appear on every floor, and there's just an issue making everything "monstrous" everywhere you go. Now THAT would be a bit of a noteworthy bug.

I'm planning on writing up a big patreon/subscribestar post on the dynamic difficulty system and all the thoughts (and even math) that went into it and what I will be changing in the future to create an opportunity cost for always grouping the knights up and why people should be able to trust the process because I have put more thought into this than most people probably expect that I have. So yeah I won't go HUGELY into this here, but this is kind of a flaw and it's really just limited content.

Basically modifiers for threats tie into how the map generation targets specific amounts of difficulty, but because of the limited number of threats it has to pick from and most threats being around the same (lower) numeric difficulty rating, there aren't really any base high difficulty threats that it can spawn as weaklings in higher floors, and most of the things it can spawn have to be spawned at the highest difficulty it can muster (and that's monstrous for monsters).

Scrying to stop masturbation

Y'know, I was almost going to add a spell passive very similar to this, but yeah with favorability doing not much currently I didn't do it (yet).

Rage against the machine(s)

Just like the previous line, something pretty close to this is also on the idea list and has a name and icon picked out for it, just isn't coded. Be on the lookout for 'percussive maintenance' in some future version.

 

[TankHunter678]

Exhaustion threats in general seem to be more problematic than you would expect, yeah. It's already difficult to clear 3 threats in under 30 Exhaustion (although to a certain degree that's by design as part of general ongoing attrition in the dungeon), so dropping exhaustion damage numbers from enemies that hit it may be worth looking into eventually.

Alternatively simply make it so that well rested only activates upon hitting 0 exhaustion instead of after 10 turns. Exhaustion is the one that clears the fastest, reducing by 3 every time, compared to Injury and Lust which only reduce by 1 point at a time so you will still take attrition damage unless you pump points into constitution to improve the injury recovery rate.

Which thinking on it, its kinda a good thing for constitution to proc every time on a character's rest action, given how some creatures (looking at you shadow) can soft lock a character into multiple injury breaks to just spike their corruption super high. Especially when you are waiting for 20 actions (that really should be turns, which would actually make scry recharge increases not as bad and help with the sheer number of dark rooms the later floors tend to have) to pass so you can scry the damn dark room to order them to gtfo.

May also want to put in a skill to do similar for lust and exhaustion. If someone wants to dump points into making characters into rest machines instead of improving their effectiveness in eliminating the traps and monsters then that should be a viable build path, since they are taking curses to pump those skill levels anyways which makes it harder.

 

[Ellioto]

wondering how much porn there is in this one so far

 

[ExhibPal]

Thanks for the Linux version, you are doing god's work. The only thing is that I couldn't go full screen, to go full screen I had to use mod+f (windows+f), also I could not change the resolution through the menu, but I use a window manager and not a desktop environment, so the problem might be on my end, will have to wait for further Linux reviews. I played on 6.5.

 

[Gremory Rias]

i may be retarded but i cannot figure out how to save the game

 

[rouge_g]

wondering how much porn there is in this one so far

I've seen a nude scene and the full sequence of the mind fucker, which is basically a floating ghost dildo with a singular goal to fuck the girls in the side of the head. There's only a single scene of that for each girl.

It's an interesting game, lot of writing and coding behind this to make it a rogue-like procedural generated dungeon crawler. But porn wise it is very dry.

 

[NRFB]

Alternatively simply make it so that well rested only activates upon hitting 0 exhaustion instead of after 10 turns. Exhaustion is the one that clears the fastest, reducing by 3 every time, compared to Injury and Lust which only reduce by 1 point at a time so you will still take attrition damage unless you pump points into constitution to improve the injury recovery rate.

I think you definitely could change the system like this and make it work, but it doesn't necessarily solve all the problems? The system as it is right now is intending to use Exhaustion and the fact that it is always naturally increasing as a sort of time bomb before the knights will inevitably start to take damage (especially because exhaustion has a greater influence on Dexterity, which means lower reflex, which means getting hit by traps). If you make it more expected to be at or near 0 exhaustion most of the time, you have to rebalance a huge amount of numbers between all the threats to account for it.

Which, again, totally could work with enough thought and work put into it, it's just not how I plan to tackle things right now.

Which thinking on it, its kinda a good thing for constitution to proc every time on a character's rest action, given how some creatures (looking at you shadow) can soft lock a character into multiple injury breaks to just spike their corruption super high. Especially when you are waiting for 20 actions (that really should be turns, which would actually make scry recharge increases not as bad and help with the sheer number of dark rooms the later floors tend to have) to pass so you can scry the damn dark room to order them to gtfo.

Unfortunately I can't consider switching scry cooldown to turns instead of actions until there are mechanics centered around turn count in place. Otherwise there is an omni-present temptation to simply have the knights wait and do nothing so you can scout out ahead of them and always put the best character forward for every threat. On the extreme end you could even scry an entire floor before having them do ANYTHING, or load them up with as many charge/thorns/grace stacks as you want with the associated spells.
I actually do agree it makes more sense to have scry be turn cooldown based rather than action based though. I'll definitely reassess that once I have the turn count thing settled, but y'know, big to do list.
I'm also open to the idea that the later floors MAY have their obscured room numbers set too high, so people can let me know if they feel that way.

May also want to put in a skill to do similar for lust and exhaustion. If someone wants to dump points into making characters into rest machines instead of improving their effectiveness in eliminating the traps and monsters then that should be a viable build path, since they are taking curses to pump those skill levels anyways which makes it harder.

I have bad news for you. (it is the change to constitution in the patch notes to become an entirely different skill)

wondering how much porn there is in this one so far

Some, but I wouldn't blame anyone who said it wasn't one of the games big selling points currently. Definitely a work in progress.

Thanks for the Linux version, you are doing god's work. The only thing is that I couldn't go full screen, to go full screen I had to use mod+f (windows+f), also I could not change the resolution through the menu, but I use a window manager and not a desktop environment, so the problem might be on my end, will have to wait for further Linux reviews. I played on 6.5.

I'm assuming this is the case, but I have to ask anyway. Did you do the necessary restart of the game between changing display settings?
Other than that I don't really know much of anything about Linux and only know how to use it casually, but of course I don't have a problem looking into things if people report them.

i may be retarded but i cannot figure out how to save the game

It autosaves between floors/trips to and from camp. There is no manual save.

I've seen a nude scene and the full sequence of the mind fucker, which is basically a floating ghost dildo with a singular goal to fuck the girls in the side of the head. There's only a single scene of that for each girl.

It's an interesting game, lot of writing and coding behind this to make it a rogue-like procedural generated dungeon crawler. But porn wise it is very dry.

There's a bit more than listed here, but I think this is an entirely fair post.

 

[TankHunter678]

Ok... so I am trying ti finish my run before updating to the new version as suggested. Lucette is now soft locked in place against a bat and exhaustion/injury corruption breaks are not increasing her permanent corruption and she is not getting any temporary corruption and the thorns effect is not going anything to the bat. I sent another character in to try to get rid of the bat but she wound up retreating to go rest as the bat started to cause her to soft lock.

So she is msturbating and is up to 195 stacks of shaken so yeah... going to need to group up and hit that bat with both characters.

 

[caju]

Godot Open GL does not play well with win 7.

 

[TankHunter678]

I have bad news for you. (it is the change to constitution in the patch notes to become an entirely different skill)

Yeah, that is going to suck looking at the changes. Injury kinda starts to become unmanageable when you start getting to the point your curses are causing characters to soft lock and you characters keep bringing in injury from other floors despite you asking them to recover.

 

[Gremory Rias]

I ended up crashing, not sure what caused it tho i was just going through the floor

 

[NRFB]

Godot Open GL does not play well with win 7.

Realistically, I should say "that's between you and godot to figure out" and that I can't really do anything about it, but instead I will say that I was previously able to get the game running on a win 10 virtual machine in VMWare without opengl 3.3 by using

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as a software renderer (just putting the dll in the same directory as the game) so you may be able to do the same kind of thing in 7. I hope you understand that me saying this doesn't mean I officially support doing it or guarantee that anything in particular in the game will actually work though.

 

[rouge_g]

There's a bit more than listed here, but I think this is an entirely fair post.

Thanks, was trying to be very fair because I see a lot of potential in this game. I see what you're doing with the 'research' during the camping periods, but I think that functionality needs to ramp up as the game progresses. There are so many monsters, traps and curses to research, each one consuming two time slots and only five slots available each camping session. That amount of grind to access what essentially is an encyclopedia and replay gallery combined is really wild. I'm not sure if that is supposed to improve in a new game+ system or what, but it's rough as it currently stands.

As far as the porn angle is concerned, the 16-bit style is visually pleasing enough and should be easy to implement short 3 or 4 frame animations without much effort. Fleshing out the monster escalation interactions with more art to go along with all the flavor text would go a long way, and maybe start with an animation for the final interaction escalation like the mind fucker. When it comes to porn games, that's what will get more attention and patreon's.

 

[Rosen King]

Basically modifiers for threats tie into how the map generation targets specific amounts of difficulty, but because of the limited number of threats it has to pick from and most threats being around the same (lower) numeric difficulty rating, there aren't really any base high difficulty threats that it can spawn as weaklings in higher floors, and most of the things it can spawn have to be spawned at the highest difficulty it can muster (and that's monstrous for monsters).

That's what I was getting at. My assumption is/was that the four missing monsters are intended to be "higher tier" threats that should be showing up as weaklings around the same time others start becoming standard or monstrous, but that the reason they're so rare in the current version is because of an error in how the varying difficulty threats are distributed through the current ten floors, causing only the weaker monsters to spawn and just scaling them up to the current floor instead of vice versa.

Edit: Though it seems that wasn't the case. Hmm. Yeah, even having that curse exist in the current version seems pretty pointless, as you have a random chance to get it each time you progress to a new floor, bringing you closer to the absolute erasure of the monsters that can trigger it.

I actually do agree it makes more sense to have scry be turn cooldown based rather than action based though. I'll definitely reassess that once I have the turn count thing settled, but y'know, big to do list.

I'm actually thinking a classic MP-based system might make more sense, as well. Even though it seems superfluous if there's only a single spell, it could open up several new avenues such as being able to have a higher maximum than what you spend (maybe a passive spell lets you store 30 MP instead of the usual 20), and it resolves one thing I've always disliked about Conduit being... what's the right word for this? "Back-loaded"? Basically, instead of Scry being easier to cast on someone who has Conduit, it just makes the *next* cast come sooner... which may still end up being wasted as you finish the next cooldown before you need it. (Incidentally, the constant feeling that you need to use Scry immediately or waste potential casts waiting for "the right time" is one reason an option to increase max MP would be appealing.) On the other hand, if you have Conduit reduce the MP cost of Scrying that character, it provides a benefit even if your previous Scries were spend on something else. UI-wise, you could just give us the option to cast Scry on any room and then say, "Nah man, you don't have enough MP for this one." (Which is to say, make an error noise.)

In any case, I should probably play the new version (or at least read the patch notes) before going any further.

Edit: Right, something I'd been meaning to bring up. Maybe do something about the font when selecting things for the NG+, as "0" looks like "8" and I keep wondering why I can't pick a certain upgrade when I'm at 1425/1488.

Edit: Ooookay, bug with the new auto-turn function. I just clicked the "end turn" button and it automatically made my characters start doing auto-turns. I started looking around in the settings and found that there's an "enable auto-turn toggle" option... that was turned off. So *something* isn't going right here. Edit 2: It's from clicking a certain part of the end turn button. Oh my god. The "enable auto-turn toggle" option causes the button to move up or down from being hidden behind the end turn button, but you can still click through to it. Guess I'll have to enable the button for now so I'm not accidentally clicking it when I'm trying not to.

Edit:

Spoiler: No, mother!

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Edit: Oopsie-doopsie. You removed two of the curses from the game, right? They're still in my research log as "Null". And there's a research button above them... Wish me luck, I'm going in! ...CRASH!