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Devastator325

Newbie
Jul 26, 2018
39
33
I've somewhat warmed to the idea of a "voyeur mode" in the new game+ menu that has events be visible even in obscured rooms without giving the option to communicate in those rooms, but I'm not sold on it completely yet just because it does have a big effect on gameplay by also telling you what threat is actually in the dark room.
It would also open up the question of if there should be scenes that would only happen in dark rooms when the inquisitor isn't supposed to be able to watch.

I guess that's where I could hide the ntr scenes! :) (I am joking)
I dont know if mechanically it is possible, but perhaps you could have the scenes viewable once the room is revealed from darkness at least? And I for one am all for more options in the new game+ tab for making the game both easier and harder, configurable difficulty is really nice after youve gone through the experience. Perhaps when the game is more or less 'complete' main plot wise, the more game breaking changes like the voyeur mode could be locked behind completing the game at least once.
 

Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
2,258
1,744
I particularly like when it's the other way around (the protagonist turning the tables on a dominant enemy), which you wouldn't think would be that uncommon in general, but generally requires a completed plotline in order to pay off properly. That unfortunately makes it incompatible with the modern Patreon drip-feed business model. (A *lot* of elements of proper game design are incompatible with that business model, but I digress.)

Actually, even though I'm aware that part of it is because this game is incomplete, but one of the things I've liked about this game so far is that it's kind of like that. I mentioned before that I really like "cucking the dungeon", so to speak, and turning this hostile corrupting force to your advantage. I know that there are plans to include significant "contrary elements" in the future (like more significant enemy sex scenes, and almost certainly some elements of "hard corruption" later on), but I'm hopeful that it will at least be possible to play through the game in this way, focusing primarily on the same tone that the game's had so far.

My biggest concern on this matter, which I actually had been meaning to bring up at some point, is the fact that the game is a rogue-lite and losing is both expected and encouraged for making progress. Right now losing is just "oops game over", but if/when that changes... In any other type of game, you could tie certain types of content to loss conditions and then just say, "Don't worry, if you want to avoid that content then just don't lose." (This includes loss-adjacent mechanics, like letting a character's corruption stat get too high.) A game where you're fighting to stay dominant and avoiding any submission/loss of control, and will instead turn the enemy's power to your advantage through your triumph, can be hella hot. But when losing is an integral and inevitable part of the game, it's a lot harder to implement that kind of stuff in a way that players can avoid. Especially without screwing up the balance, e.g. giving the player the option to avoid whatever new enemy sex mechanics you add even though the game is balanced around however they're implemented.

I guess that's where I could hide the ntr scenes! :) (I am joking)
Joking about hiding them, you mean. :unsure:


Anyway, Tweet time.

Tweet said:
That's... only gonna be visible in certain circumstances, right? Because it definitely feels a bit messy to be there any time you're not actively using or looking for it. I'm not really sure what would be a good way to do that, though... In SRPGs, the ideal time tends to be having it show up as one last command after making your move, but that's not really gonna work here. And having it show up every time you open the menu to give them any unrelated orders isn't ideal, either. (I'm still not a fan of the new path thing that shows up every time you click a knight.)

Today there is a supporter devlog about art, artistry, and my lack of it (not self-depricating I promise).
Anyone who that's relevant to probably doesn't need me to post it here, but...

For everyone (not just supporters) the bugfix patch mod on itch has also been updated to fix a few more things. If you find more bugs, let me know!
...this one I probably should have posted here earlier.

Apparently I neglected to save the art I made for a scene a couple of days ago and only just realized now when going to tweet it. Well I GUESS it'll just stay a surprise to everyone then!
asdfgh

Oh right, I had a silly suggestion I keep forgetting to bring up: There should be a Broken Clock event that checks your computer's clock and tells you the actual time. However, it also checks the date, and this event can't happen more than twice per real life day. Because a Broken Clock is right twice a day.

Would embracing this one lock it into a level above 1? Depending on how it scales (and what it does in the first place, of course), it might actually be overpowered to lock it only at level 1 while letting it soak up five levels of corruption waves.
 

EPGerhart

Active Member
Dec 24, 2017
620
207
I've STILL never seen this happen and thought it stopped after the change to how the game over animation works. You may or may not get something if you play the game through a command prompt so that the engine can output errors there, but I wouldn't expect much.
It was a good suggestion, but it didn't get me any more detail. I'll try again after upgrading to Windows 11 (I'm still running Windows 7).
 

Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
2,258
1,744
It was a good suggestion, but it didn't get me any more detail. I'll try again after upgrading to Windows 11 (I'm still running Windows 7).
I don't think the OS is the issue. I use Windows 7, but I've seen similar reports from people who don't. Did you download the latest "bugfix mods"? Because there definitely is a crash that occurs in the current upload of the game without the accompanying bugfix, but the fix was released in a way that isn't immediately obvious.

Come to think of it, if nothing else, NRFB should at least include a link to the latest bugfix mod in the first post when it's available (and then remove it when the next update comes out, of course).
 

NRFB

Hi (。・ω・)ノ゙
Game Developer
Feb 14, 2020
308
678
I dont know if mechanically it is possible, but perhaps you could have the scenes viewable once the room is revealed from darkness at least?
It would be possible. The event box in the event list always contains all the event information, it's just a true/false flag to determine if it shows the description or obscured description text and allows you to view the dialogue.
And I for one am all for more options in the new game+ tab for making the game both easier and harder, configurable difficulty is really nice after youve gone through the experience. Perhaps when the game is more or less 'complete' main plot wise, the more game breaking changes like the voyeur mode could be locked behind completing the game at least once.
Yeah, new game+ already makes the difficulty extremely varied and I can't and shouldn't really disallow that from being the case.
Also thinking about it, you could technically already mod darkness out by copying all the existing floor data and setting the obscured room count and chaos obscured chance variables to 0.

That unfortunately makes it incompatible with the modern Patreon drip-feed business model. (A *lot* of elements of proper game design are incompatible with that business model, but I digress.)
I'm not really fan of it either, but I want to make money eventually so here we are.
ps gib me money

My biggest concern on this matter, which I actually had been meaning to bring up at some point, is the fact that the game is a rogue-lite and losing is both expected and encouraged for making progress. Right now losing is just "oops game over", but if/when that changes... In any other type of game, you could tie certain types of content to loss conditions and then just say, "Don't worry, if you want to avoid that content then just don't lose." (This includes loss-adjacent mechanics, like letting a character's corruption stat get too high.) A game where you're fighting to stay dominant and avoiding any submission/loss of control, and will instead turn the enemy's power to your advantage through your triumph, can be hella hot. But when losing is an integral and inevitable part of the game, it's a lot harder to implement that kind of stuff in a way that players can avoid. Especially without screwing up the balance, e.g. giving the player the option to avoid whatever new enemy sex mechanics you add even though the game is balanced around however they're implemented.
I don't really like content locked behind game overing in games and would generally like to avoid it, hence why game overs just end currently.
Though you could argue anything that winds up being gated behind corruption is already close to that (since it would be encouraging playing "badly") but I don't really see it that way? I dunno.

That's... only gonna be visible in certain circumstances, right?
Yeah it's only for targeting skills like Parting Shot and The Alley-Oop where they need a specific direction. Ordering normal movement is unchanged.

Oh right, I had a silly suggestion I keep forgetting to bring up: There should be a Broken Clock event that checks your computer's clock and tells you the actual time. However, it also checks the date, and this event can't happen more than twice per real life day. Because a Broken Clock is right twice a day.
Godot can access the system clock, so this is possible, but I'm probably not going to make it do so for this silly joke.

Would embracing this one lock it into a level above 1? Depending on how it scales (and what it does in the first place, of course), it might actually be overpowered to lock it only at level 1 while letting it soak up five levels of corruption waves.
It would lock at rank 1, yeah. This curse works in a somewhat unique way compared to others, and I'm not sure if it's well balanced yet. We'll have to see.

Come to think of it, if nothing else, NRFB should at least include a link to the latest bugfix mod in the first post when it's available (and then remove it when the next update comes out, of course).
Probably should, yeah.
 

EPGerhart

Active Member
Dec 24, 2017
620
207
I found a bugfix on called Alpha 12 Bugfix 2.zip but after extracting it I've got no clue about how to apply it.
 

NRFB

Hi (。・ω・)ノ゙
Game Developer
Feb 14, 2020
308
678
I found a bugfix on called Alpha 12 Bugfix 2.zip but after extracting it I've got no clue about how to apply it.
 

EPGerhart

Active Member
Dec 24, 2017
620
207
I start the Game. I select "Mods" from the main menu. "Base Game" appears in the central column. I click the "change" button just above it to set the mod folder to M:/substitute/Going Deeper/Alpha 12 Bugfix 2 (the subfolder created when unzipping the bugfix zip). "Bugfix 2" appears in the lower box on the right. I can't seem to click on the Bugfix name so all I can do is hit "Confirm". I'm returned to the main menu. If I click on "Mods" again, should I see anything beyond "Base Game" in the middle column and "Bugfix 2" in the lower box on the right ?
 

NRFB

Hi (。・ω・)ノ゙
Game Developer
Feb 14, 2020
308
678
I start the Game. I select "Mods" from the main menu. "Base Game" appears in the central column. I click the "change" button just above it to set the mod folder to M:/substitute/Going Deeper/Alpha 12 Bugfix 2 (the subfolder created when unzipping the bugfix zip). "Bugfix 2" appears in the lower box on the right. I can't seem to click on the Bugfix name so all I can do is hit "Confirm". I'm returned to the main menu. If I click on "Mods" again, should I see anything beyond "Base Game" in the middle column and "Bugfix 2" in the lower box on the right ?
If I'm reading you correctly, you would want to set the mod folder to one level up, rather than the folder of the mod.
Basically the structure should be something like
  • Folder for containing mods (use the file picker in the mods menu to point here)
    • Alpha 12 Bugfix 2 (This is where you're currently pointing it I think?)
      • various json files
    • Other mods
      • various other json files
 

EPGerhart

Active Member
Dec 24, 2017
620
207
So the "folder for containing mods" is not the same folder that has the .exe in it ? If not, is it just an arbitrarily named folder in that same folder, or is it somewhere else ?
 

NRFB

Hi (。・ω・)ノ゙
Game Developer
Feb 14, 2020
308
678
So the "folder for containing mods" is not the same folder that has the .exe in it ? If not, is it just an arbitrarily named folder in that same folder, or is it somewhere else ?
The location of the exe is irrelevant, actually. You can have a folder for mods anywhere, you just have to tell the game where it is so it can look there.
 

EPGerhart

Active Member
Dec 24, 2017
620
207
I tried using the spacebar almost exclusively instead of clicking the "next turn" button and was able to get all the way to the "game over". Didn't earn enough extra points for much in the way of advantages so I think I've plateaued.

EDIT: I did eventually get a Godot engine crash anyway.
 
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EPGerhart

Active Member
Dec 24, 2017
620
207
Minor issue in camp. Lucette is in the Knight's Tent. Raine an[d] Elli are fishing while Lucette is not, yet Lucette is described as being present with a pole.

Capture.JPG
 

Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
2,258
1,744
It is indeed hot. That's why we should be able to turn the tables on the goddess by the end.
Yus.

Dominate and corrupt her.
Though I'd also like for a way to "redeem" her that still ticks some of the same boxes as corruption. "Reverse corruption" is another kink that I think is horribly underutilized but can be totally hot if done right. Imagine an evil, domineering succubus who's "corrupted" into an angel of charity that uses her lewd body to offer the gifts of love and pleasure to those who need it most. Or a selfish slut who's turned into a sweet and devoted girlfriend. Imagine a team of magical girls who got their powers from a perverted scientist's brainwashing device, and they capture a villain so their master can use the brainwashing power of love and friendship to turn her into their newest teammate. (I call the machine in that scenario the "Cerberus Tail", because when read with Japanese phonetics it sounds similar to "Care Bear Stare".)

...Ahem. Anyway, yeah, I hope we at least get to do something like that to the fallen knights. "Good news, girls! Your comrades have been brought back to the side of justice! Though, they may or may not see me as their new god(dess)... But hey, this is a multi-faith alliance, right? Syra worshippers, Melos worshippers, and Inquisitor worshippers. Go team. (y)"
 

blue_krystal

New Member
Jul 29, 2022
11
5
Hiiii, I'm strangely invested in this game, I like it a lot and I plan to write a longer, more helpful comment once I play it a bit more (specially patch 12 since most of my experience comes from the previous one), but for now I only wanted to request:

Could you add an option to autoplay all events, even previously watched ones? I really like seeing the action happen in real time but sadly that excitment is lost on NG+ since by then you've watched most of them.
 

NRFB

Hi (。・ω・)ノ゙
Game Developer
Feb 14, 2020
308
678
I posted a thing on my discord about my thoughts on in-dungeon sex mechanic and had some talk about it. I feel a bit better about it, but I know that people here aren't all people there so I figured I might as well post it here too in case anyone is going to want to share opinions on it.
  • Sex is a status effect which can be applied by monster events like any other status effect
    • These mechanics don't really make sense for traps, but I could see a case where a character gets sexed by a machine or something, so should there be a separate type of sex for traps?
  • Sex holds the character in place and prevents actions (trance behavior logic)
    • Pretty self explanatory. Character can't do anything while getting sex'd.
  • Sex can be broken via interaction from another ally
    • No good alternative to that which wouldn't end up making sex EASIER to deal with than masturbation
    • Because of a new change with interactions, this also means that doing so will cause the monster to get an opportunity attack against the character doing the interrupting, which sounds fine to me
  • Sex deals Lust damage per turn = 10% Current Lust + 10% Total Corruption
    • Sex is probably not going to be applied at low lust unless there is instead a corruption requirement.
    • Damage range of 0-18. Should there be a higher minimum than 0? Maybe 3 in order to match the minimum damage from masturbation.
    • Feels a bit clunky to put this formula in the description, or I suppose non-sexy.
  • If a character has a corruption break due to sex, the monster is dealt damage = 1.5 Total Corruption
    • Not sold on this number but 2 times total corruption feels like too much?
    • Also feels non-sexy to put this damage formula
    • Resulting damage range of 0-148. Should ignore armor too, because it doesn't make much sense if armor blocked damage from sex.
    • So a character left alone will EVENTUALLY be freed by exhausting the monster, gradually getting better at doing this as they build up corruption.
    • Because suffering a corruption break resets you at 70 Lust, assuming a character doesn't defeat the monster with the damage dealt, further corruption breaks will only further increase P Corruption by 1, while continuing to deal the same amount of damage (actually a little more).
    • The worst of what a monster can do by sexing a character is done at the moment of the first corruption break, with subsequent breaks being much weaker. Idea here is that a situation that gets out of hand is less likely to be game ending even if it is damaging.
    • Opens up the possibility of going slut mode and speccing into corruption specifically to do sex damage?
      • Fits with the high risk high reward playstyle that corruption is supposed to have.
      • Would probably need some associated corrupt skills or similar things to somewhat mitigate the permanent corruption gain before it could be truly viable in the long term
      • Likely a future concern, but something I know some people would enjoy being able to do
Big problem is if sex can be initiated by a knight rather than only by a monster, then that means that sex would need to be possible on MOST (can't sex like, a regular bat for example) existing monsters. Needing to add sex events/cgs for all of those is a pretty big chunk of work to suddenly slap down on my plate on top of everything else, so I may need to introduce generic/placeholder events/CGs? Not ideal.
 

Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
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  • No good alternative to that which wouldn't end up making sex EASIER to deal with than masturbation
I mean, I would argue that sex *should* be easier to deal with than masturbation (and not just because masturbation is already a bitch to deal with). When looking at it in terms of what sort of content players would want to engage in or avoid, it makes sense that the more extreme examples should be more avoidable than the less extreme ones. And watching the knights masturbate is generally much more palatable than watching them get fucked and not really being able to do anything about it. This is basically what I was getting at with my previous post, about how tricky it is to balance a game where you're expected to lose versus giving the player some control over which types of content they want to engage with.

But it also makes sense from a conceptual standpoint that the girls should be able to break out of sex more easily than masturbation. After all, one is an act of (potential) conflict between them and an enemy, while the other is something they're doing to themselves. Once you've decided to masturbate, it would take an outside force to change your mind. But the knight (with the Inquisitor's encouragement) should be able to choose whether, and how much, to try to resist or go along with an enemy's rape/seduction/whatever. At least to a degree. This is especially true if there's the potential to use sex as a weapon, so that choosing whether to fight back is a tactical decision as well.

This also opens the door for other mechanics to interact and affect the difficulty of the encounter (and the erotic implications of it). For instance, if you're normally able to take measures to break out of sex, but the knight is afflicted with Trance, then they'll be stuck unable to resist until the trance ends. If a monster intiates sex on a knight who's already masturbating, then they'd need to be broken out of the masturbation state before they can break out of the sex. You could also introduce a curse that makes it harder (or impossible at higher levels) to break out of sex without another knight's assistance. Since curses effectively count as "avoidable content", it's not as much of an issue as if that was the case by default.


(Edit: But I do also want to double down on the "masturbation is already a bitch to deal with" thing. Anything where the only way to prevent a corruption break is to pull other knights away from what they're doing is way too punishing on certain playstyles, including my own. Tying a major mechanic to that is definitely not something I want to see.)

  • Opens up the possibility of going slut mode and speccing into corruption specifically to do sex damage?
    • Fits with the high risk high reward playstyle that corruption is supposed to have.
    • Would probably need some associated corrupt skills or similar things to somewhat mitigate the permanent corruption gain before it could be truly viable in the long term
    • Likely a future concern, but something I know some people would enjoy being able to do
Continuing with the idea that sex is largely avoidable/resistable, it could also be a good idea to include some skills that mitigate the corruption received instead of increasing the damage dealt (although maybe make them mutually exclusive). Instead of tempting them into taking bigger risks with a bigger reward, they can feel safer in those riskier situations and are more likely to engage with the content even without a high-risk playstyle. Suppose there was a skill (perhaps something like "Open-Minded") where having a corruption break during sex caused a reduced percentage of Temporary Corruption to be converted to Permanent Corruption. This would then make it a valid strategy to seek out a monster (or another knight!) to have sex with when they have high lust and/or temporary corruption, to reduce the amount of long-term damage. (I feel like I mentioned a similar idea to that before, but I may not have gotten around to posting it.)

Needing to add sex events/cgs for all of those is a pretty big chunk of work to suddenly slap down on my plate on top of everything else, so I may need to introduce generic/placeholder events/CGs? Not ideal.
I've mentioned this before, but I don't think you should be afraid to use generic/repeated content in the game. Especially when the alternative is to add a compounding amount of work to make a unique X for every Y. And enemies that do have unique events will be identifiable through the research log, so you're free to include them whenever or wherever you please while using generic events for the rest, without confusing players or making them feel the need to test every monster.


Also, Tweet time:

Tweet said:
Please don't represent a dick slapping a face.

(Also, the animation seems kind of... aggressive? Like, moving too fast. Maybe it's more annoying on Twitter than it would be in the game. I also don't even know if it's going to repeat like that in the game.)

If a knight with this curse kisses another knight, she receives the False Pregnancy debuff.

Are you suuuure you don't want to trust me?

FzLZcrgWIAEg0IO.png
Trust goes both ways, and you need to trust my fashion advice, lady. (Also my treatise on why letting me brainwash you would both be more enjoyable than serving Eschahn while also probably being consistent with her teachings. Nothing says "trust" like a signed consent form for brainwashing.)



(Edit 2: I haven't hashed this out all the way yet, but I did just think of a potential way to make the "avoidable sex encounter" thing work. Maybe you could implement a sort of "control meter" to the sex mechanic, where the knight will naturally fight to gain more control over the encounter, and then you'll be given certain options based on whether the meter is full, or how full it is. This obviously includes the option to break off from the sex, but could maybe include other options to turn the encounter around.

....Ooooooh, but what if the knight isn't the one filling up and utilizing the meter? What if this is another instance of the knights entrusting the Inquisitor with control over their minds, overpowering (or twisting) the influence of Eschahn's curse, which would normally drive the knights to submit to the sex, and instead allowing the Inquisitor to control and direct their lust? This would also explain why the player is able to tell them how to deal with the situation instead of deciding for themselves. It would also significantly reduce the sense of cuckoldry inherent in the encounter, and I know you said you didn't want this to be an "NTR" game.)
 
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Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
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I don't normally double-post, but I can't see your last active time on your account to check whether you already read my last post before the edit, and I know that you tend to catch things pretty quickly after they're posted. I just wanted to make sure you saw that I included an edit for an idea that I really, *really* want to see. Maybe I'm getting overexcited for a half-baked idea and setting myself up for disappointment, but... yeah.

(Edit 2: I haven't hashed this out all the way yet, but I did just think of a potential way to make the "avoidable sex encounter" thing work. Maybe you could implement a sort of "control meter" to the sex mechanic, where the knight will naturally fight to gain more control over the encounter, and then you'll be given certain options based on whether the meter is full, or how full it is. This obviously includes the option to break off from the sex, but could maybe include other options to turn the encounter around.

....Ooooooh, but what if the knight isn't the one filling up and utilizing the meter? What if this is another instance of the knights entrusting the Inquisitor with control over their minds, overpowering (or twisting) the influence of Eschahn's curse, which would normally drive the knights to submit to the sex, and instead allowing the Inquisitor to control and direct their lust? This would also explain why the player is able to tell them how to deal with the situation instead of deciding for themselves. It would also significantly reduce the sense of cuckoldry inherent in the encounter, and I know you said you didn't want this to be an "NTR" game.)
Edit (a day later): I had a couple more thoughts on how the "Sex Control" mechanic might be utilized. Regarding how it fills up, it should naturally happen on every turn where the knight isn't incapacitated (e.g. in trance or dazed), but it should also get a boost any time a point of temporary corruption is gained. On top of limiting how much damage can be done before you have the option to stop it, this could also allow you to exploit things like the Exhibitionism curse to gain control quicker (in a sexy way). There could also be skills that help out, like a "Hate Fuck" skill that gains a stack of Fury for every turn they're having sex, and gets a big boost to control as a Rage Bonus. And once you do have your control filled up, there could be activatable skills that only work when you're having sex with full control. This would mean not having a skill that can be used outside of sex, but that would be expected if you're making a "battlefuck" build.

Edit 2: And maybe that earlier suggestion about a skill that reduces T -> P Corruption conversion during sex could actually be baked into the control mechanic? If the knight suffers a Corruption Break before maxing out the control meter, they take full permanent corruption damage. But if you max out the control meter and continue having sex into a corruption break, you take reduced damage. This means gaining control is always the goal, but you have a reason to not break free once you do. It can also encourage paradoxical strategies with the suggestion in the last edit, where you deliberately increase temporary corruption to make sure you max out control before the break, reducing the actual corruption damage you take.

Edit 3: Now I'm imagining a climactic sex battle with a fallen knight where the goal is to max out her control meter and give the Inquisitor control over her crest. Not like instantly enslaving her, but allowing the Inquisitor to usurp some of the power that Eschahn has over her, for better or worse.
 
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YamiAi

Member
Sep 14, 2021
123
319
I posted a thing on my discord about my thoughts on in-dungeon sex mechanic and had some talk about it. I feel a bit better about it, but I know that people here aren't all people there so I figured I might as well post it here too in case anyone is going to want to share opinions on it.

Big problem is if sex can be initiated by a knight rather than only by a monster, then that means that sex would need to be possible on MOST (can't sex like, a regular bat for example) existing monsters. Needing to add sex events/cgs for all of those is a pretty big chunk of work to suddenly slap down on my plate on top of everything else, so I may need to introduce generic/placeholder events/CGs? Not ideal.
Sounds like a great idea in general.
 
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