Others Going Deeper [Beta 2.1] [NRFB Games]

[FeLisk]

Pollen flower sends giberish in chat window.
Creepy sound room crashes the game.
Researches done nothing on second try.
Got really frustrated.
I thought it was going to be some easy exploring with some pictures and stuff (

Dont worry tho, dev.
I know you trying your best, game just need some polishing, I guess ^^"

 

[Spitefire46]

Pollen flower sends giberish in chat window.
Creepy sound room crashes the game.
Researches done nothing on second try.
Got really frustrated.
I thought it was going to be some easy exploring with some pictures and stuff (

Dont worry tho, dev.
I know you trying your best, game just need some polishing, I guess ^^"

Yup. It's in Alpha for a reason.

Another thing that isn't so much a technical error, but I find it quite difficult at times to read the text in different menus because it is both small and pixelated. My eyes are good, but I have to squint and get real close to the screen to read them sometimes. I am hoping that I didn't just miss a setting somewhere, because I set the text setting for the dialogue box to the largest possible.

 

[NRFB]

Okay, I have uploaded a fixed version that should cover the intermittent dialogue crashes, the events with broken formatting, the ambient sound bug, and a bug that was preventing randomized music from being selected (which nobody commented on but then it was probable that nobody even knew music was SUPPOSED to be there). The links in the OP are updated with this build.

On an unrelated note, I'm curious what sort of update schedule to expect from the game. I'm sure you don't have an exact date, but I know that when it comes to more complex games (i.e. anything that isn't just a generic Ren'py VN), the timing between updates varies between different devs, whereas the generic Patreon-fueled Ren'py VNs pretty much always go for the "monthly update" thing. I'm just wondering what sort of wait should be expected and how often I should check in.

So the reason this version is called Alpha-6 is actually because this is my 6th consecutive month of updating an alpha build. You can check the itch.io page devlogs to see the previous release notes for alphas 5 and 6 to get an idea of the size of updates I've been shooting for. Admittedly, this release is much more of a clown fiesta than the other ones, so I've lost a few days of work that should have gone to Alpha 7 to fixing these issues, but I have been intending to keep up a monthly update schedule.

Hi NRFB! I Would be delighted to try your game, but I'm on MacOS. Would it be possible to deliver a MacOs executable, or a .godot project I could execute with the Godot app? It can't execute .pcs file.

I am still looking into this. The macOS export has additional hoops to jump through due to security requirements on Apple's end it seems. I believe someone earlier in the thread mentioned playing it through Wine, although I understand that isn't ideal.

 

[Rosen King]

Researches done nothing on second try.

Oh right, that's another bug I found that I forgot to report. If you fully complete the research for a specific monster (I'm not sure if it's the same for traps and curses), it should remove the "Research" option on that monster. But if you click on a monster that hasn't been fully researched, then click back to one that has, the option will still be there.

 

[bobsirt]

This game seems pretty solid so far, and I'm pretty interested in seeing where you can take it. There is a lot of stuff that is clearly not fully implemented yet, like doing much of anything in camp (speaking of camp, ever since I hit NG+, the sleep button has been grayed out??), but what is there seems pretty solid right now.

Hi NRFB! I Would be delighted to try your game, but I'm on MacOS. Would it be possible to deliver a MacOs executable, or a .godot project I could execute with the Godot app? It can't execute .pcs file.

I'm running it on a Mac through Wine at the moment, and while I've had some crashes its not enough to stop me from being able to experience the game.

 

[NRFB]

Oh right, that's another bug I found that I forgot to report. If you fully complete the research for a specific monster (I'm not sure if it's the same for traps and curses), it should remove the "Research" option on that monster. But if you click on a monster that hasn't been fully researched, then click back to one that has, the option will still be there.

Looks like you're correct. I can see how this happened, and it doesn't appear to be the case for curses or traps. A bug, but at least it isn't as gamebreaking as the previous ones.

This game seems pretty solid so far, and I'm pretty interested in seeing where you can take it. There is a lot of stuff that is clearly not fully implemented yet, like doing much of anything in camp (speaking of camp, ever since I hit NG+, the sleep button has been grayed out??), but what is there seems pretty solid right now.

Would you happen to have the 'Wired' spell active? That makes you unable to sleep (and also prevents you from falling asleep during research if you haven't slept in a while). If not, I'd have to look into it, but there are very few things that would tell the sleep button to be disabled.

 

[Spitefire46]

It would seem the crashing from dialogue has been fixed.

Now the only other thing I can report is consistently crashing after finishing a floor. It would be catastrophic if the game didn't save any progress, but fortunately it does. The game crashes regardless of picking return to camp or moving to the next floor, but starting it back up and selecting continue puts the game where it should be.

 

[cell943]

This is a lot more fun than I thought it would be! Is there a list of events/monsters anywhere? It'd be good to know if there's still more to find. Maybe putting a full list of monsters/traps/curses as '???' in the research list and then reveal the name when you encounter them.

Really I only have a couple gripes. One is the mention of a flying cock being afraid of being "called a quick shot". It's jarring language compared to the way the rest of the game is written.
Also the fact that allies will attempt to autonav to the bonfire but won't auto-leave when they're fully rested (and aren't immobile for whatever reason). The addition of specifying AI tactics would be a great help. "always explore (auto-leave spots to cover the most ground possible)", for example, or "back up allies (assist anyone in battle/trapped)" or whatever.
Finally, adding a "skip" button which auto-advances turns while being held down or toggled. Having to mash the mouse button sometimes is a hassle.

 

[Rosen King]

One thing I'd really like is a second, more detailed event log that shows things like stat gain/loss and ailments being triggered. Basically any of the stuff that's currently only signaled by having a number or icon pop up on the screen for a split-second and then disappearing. I obviously can't keep track of everything that just happened when I see a blue 3, a pink 1, a black 1, and a red 2 popping up at the same time and disappearing a half-second later. Something that tells me "Raine attacked the Gazer. (+3 Exhaustion) The Gazer attacked Raine. (+2 Injury, +1 Lust) Raine suffered an Injury Break! (+1 Permanent Corruption)" I noticed there's the border of another pullout menu at the top of that screen, and I assume the reason you can't pull it out yet is because it's not implemented. Is that where the battle log would go?

I'd also like to be able to actually view what's in a room, and maybe compare it to my research log. I mean, what's really the point of the research if I can only check it while I'm at the base? My character casts a scrying spell on a room that allows him to see exactly what's inside, and he's safe at the base with his log right next to him, but all I can see is that this square has an angry face in it. But maybe that's something that's still being worked on. I feel like the tutorial might have even said I'm supposed to be able to view a room by clicking on it.

Another thing that seems to lack transparency so far is the "compulsion" stat, though the only mention I've seen of it is the Idle Hands curse, which adds +1 to a masturbation compulsion for every two turns spent doing nothing. Maybe this can go in a third stat page for a character's "mental stats", which would also let you view their relationship values when that's implemented (as the New Game+ menu specifically has an option to carry over relationship values), and maybe other stats like Distrust or... dare I hope, Obedience?

On that note, I'm really looking forward to seeing just how the teased base camp mechanics involving mind control and corruption from the player character are implemented. Of course the first assumption would be that you have the option to somehow take advantage of them without their permission or knowledge, but I'm kind of hoping that there's also an element of consensual control in order to combat the corruption of the dungeon (with the option to abuse it, of course). Maybe, the more the dungeon starts to take hold of them, the more control they entrust to you and your mental magic, and you can essentially "spend" permanent corruption points (without actually decreasing their corruption level) to gain new traits. Or something along those lines.

One example of this that I was thinking of would be the "Denial Mantra" trait, which forbids them from pleasuring themselves without your permission, and can only be taken if they have the Idle Hands curse. Any time they would ordinarily be compelled to masturbate, they instead start chanting a mantra of obedience for five turns, which lets them continue acting as normal and grants a bonus to willpower, while also causing 3 lust damage per turn (as opposed to masturbation's 5). The tradeoff is that other characters can't snap them out of it, so they're guaranteed to take the full five turns of lust damage, and it increases the compulsion to have sex with you when they return to camp. If the compulsion triggers, you have to spend some time to satisfy them or else they suffer a corruption break. Another tradeoff might be that a character with a mantra trait might trigger off of hearing another character's mantra, and the trait itself might spread to an ally who has the Trance status effect and overhears them. (Although I haven't been able to see what that effect really does or anything that even causes it outside of a dark room.)

Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself... I really like what you're doing with the game and am looking forward to the future.

 

[NRFB]

Now the only other thing I can report is consistently crashing after finishing a floor. It would be catastrophic if the game didn't save any progress, but fortunately it does. The game crashes regardless of picking return to camp or moving to the next floor, but starting it back up and selecting continue puts the game where it should be.

I have not seen this, nor has anyone else been able to reproduce it. Any more information you could give about it? If you run the game via a command line like powershell, does it output anything about the crash to the terminal?

This is a lot more fun than I thought it would be! Is there a list of events/monsters anywhere? It'd be good to know if there's still more to find. Maybe putting a full list of monsters/traps/curses as '???' in the research list and then reveal the name when you encounter them.

I actually got this exact thing set up today for events, though I'm not sure about doing the same for monsters/traps. Possibly.

Really I only have a couple gripes. One is the mention of a flying cock being afraid of being "called a quick shot". It's jarring language compared to the way the rest of the game is written.

Entirely fair.

Also the fact that allies will attempt to autonav to the bonfire but won't auto-leave when they're fully rested (and aren't immobile for whatever reason). The addition of specifying AI tactics would be a great help. "always explore (auto-leave spots to cover the most ground possible)", for example, or "back up allies (assist anyone in battle/trapped)" or whatever.

I agree with this completely, and more AI complexity is on the to-do list somewhere. It's just a very big to-do list.

I noticed there's the border of another pullout menu at the top of that screen, and I assume the reason you can't pull it out yet is because it's not implemented. Is that where the battle log would go?

I'd also like to be able to actually view what's in a room, and maybe compare it to my research log. I mean, what's really the point of the research if I can only check it while I'm at the base? My character casts a scrying spell on a room that allows him to see exactly what's inside, and he's safe at the base with his log right next to him, but all I can see is that this square has an angry face in it. But maybe that's something that's still being worked on. I feel like the tutorial might have even said I'm supposed to be able to view a room by clicking on it.

The issues in this second paragraph are the answer to those last couple of sentences in the first paragraph. If you select a room by clicking it then mouse over the menu at the top of the screen, it shows the room details. I admit that this was tutorialized poorly (it is only mentioned but you're not explicitly made to use it), so I have made a change to the next update where selecting a room automatically pops it down and deselecting makes it collapse back up.

Another thing that seems to lack transparency so far is the "compulsion" stat, though the only mention I've seen of it is the Idle Hands curse, which adds +1 to a masturbation compulsion for every two turns spent doing nothing. Maybe this can go in a third stat page for a character's "mental stats", which would also let you view their relationship values when that's implemented (as the New Game+ menu specifically has an option to carry over relationship values), and maybe other stats like Distrust or... dare I hope, Obedience?

Compulsions are intentionally hidden in order to add more mental load/uncertainty to a player's decision making. Rather than always being able to compute everything that is going to happen, compulsions can create situations like "I know that this character has this or that compulsion due to her having this or that curse, but I don't know if it will necessarily trigger. Do I risk it?"

That said, there will likely be some method for viewing how high a compulsion is on an ally eventually, but it won't be ALWAYS present knowledge (or if it is, there will be some trade-off for it)

Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself... I really like what you're doing with the game and am looking forward to the future.

And I appreciate such enthusiasm.

 

[Rosen King]

The issues in this second paragraph are the answer to those last couple of sentences in the first paragraph. If you select a room by clicking it then mouse over the menu at the top of the screen, it shows the room details. I admit that this was tutorialized poorly (it is only mentioned but you're not explicitly made to use it), so I have made a change to the next update where selecting a room automatically pops it down and deselecting makes it collapse back up.

Oh, it's from mousing over? No wonder it's so easy to miss. Every other pullout menu it opened by pressing a button next to it, and even mousing over that one doesn't do anything if you don't have a room selected, so you might not even see it while you're experimenting with the menus. Hmm... That last part might be resolved by having it drop down with "No Room Selected" or something. Having an option to keep it open without the mouseover might also be nice.

Compulsions are intentionally hidden in order to add more mental load/uncertainty to a player's decision making. Rather than always being able to compute everything that is going to happen, compulsions can create situations like "I know that this character has this or that compulsion due to her having this or that curse, but I don't know if it will necessarily trigger. Do I risk it?"

If that's the case, you need to have something that actually explains the mechanics behind it. If we can't see the numbers to figure it out on our own, but we also don't know how it's *supposed* to work, we're just stumbling around blind. Always remember when balancing these things that you're looking at them from the perspective of a dev who knows the game's mechanics inside and out. The players are gonna need a lot more info than you do in order to actually make meaningful decisions about how to react to them. And things that feel like they might make the game "too easy" to you might not be nearly the same for players. Honestly, letting us see the numbers doesn't seem like it would be overpowered at all, but maybe that's just because I don't know how one would even use that knowledge.

And that kind of brings me back to emphasizing how important it is to have some way to check what actually happened to your characters on any given turn. The fact that the numbers and icons pop up means that this is information the player is expected to have, but that information can be completely missed just based on a person's reaction speed and ability to take things in at a glance and process what they mean. The entire reason I play turn-based games is because I can't keep up with the ones that have a bunch of things going on at once and expect me to react quickly to them, so having a turn-based game where I miss out on information because I'm lacking in action-game skills is kind of... I don't know the best way to put it, but I guess it kind of feels like a personal attack. (I imagine it's also a big issue for people who are color blind, since the colors are the only way to tell which stats are being changed.)

 

[Elsiss Surana]

NRFB Sorry for the repost, but Ithink oyu and I posted at nearly the same time and you might have missed my post the first time

Okay, I've been trying to figure this out, but what kind of mind control do you have planned for this game? Is it just the corruption system altering the skills the characters can learn and how lewed they are, or is there going to be actual instances where some of the monsters can do things like hypnotize the girls and control them to do things. Will we ever see one monster hypnotize one of the girls and then send them against the others. Will we ever have to rescue one of the girls who has been captured by a trap and is being actively brainwashed. That sort of mind control.

 

[Estomac]

I'm running it on a Mac through Wine at the moment, and while I've had some crashes its not enough to stop me from being able to experience the game.

Using a Trial version of CrossOver (paid version of Wine) enabled me to play the game on a M1 MacBook. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Spitefire46]

I have not seen this, nor has anyone else been able to reproduce it. Any more information you could give about it? If you run the game via a command line like powershell, does it output anything about the crash to the terminal?


I actually got this exact thing set up today for events, though I'm not sure about doing the same for monsters/traps. Possibly.
View attachment 2118115


Entirely fair.

I agree with this completely, and more AI complexity is on the to-do list somewhere. It's just a very big to-do list.


The issues in this second paragraph are the answer to those last couple of sentences in the first paragraph. If you select a room by clicking it then mouse over the menu at the top of the screen, it shows the room details. I admit that this was tutorialized poorly (it is only mentioned but you're not explicitly made to use it), so I have made a change to the next update where selecting a room automatically pops it down and deselecting makes it collapse back up.


Compulsions are intentionally hidden in order to add more mental load/uncertainty to a player's decision making. Rather than always being able to compute everything that is going to happen, compulsions can create situations like "I know that this character has this or that compulsion due to her having this or that curse, but I don't know if it will necessarily trigger. Do I risk it?"

That said, there will likely be some method for viewing how high a compulsion is on an ally eventually, but it won't be ALWAYS present knowledge (or if it is, there will be some trade-off for it)


And I appreciate such enthusiasm.

Actually confused on the crashing myself. Mind you this is the same build that fixed the text problems. When I played yesterday morning, the crashing occurred as I described. Today, I loaded up the game and continued from my save expecting the same thing, but it stopped occurring completely. Same build. I don't do anything fancy with the game. A simple extraction and running the .exe. I wouldn't consider it a problem now, but I will say something if more crashing occurs later.

I've really enjoyed the game, and look forward to future content.

 

[WellIGuess]

Well now, this seems both very interesting and surprisingly in-depth. Will be following with great interest.

 

[qwerqwer1Q]

Sorry if this got mentioned before in the thread, but too much frontloading of the mechanics in my opinion, coupled with too long blocks of text at the start of the game. (And the game could also use a skip button, unless I missed it. Plut a text log.)

I started the game, and got treated to an intro section about a guy being sent out and meeting the heroines.
Then I got treated to a character customization screen, which is probably not the optimal place for it.
Then more text.
And then the tutorial itself, which presents one mechanic after another in quick succession, each coupled with a long explanation.

By the mid-point of the tutorial I was already exhausted and just skipping through, hoping to see something interesting happen.

The actual mechanics look really good at first glance, and this seems like the first game since the Labyrinth of Touhou that may scratch that dungeon party exploration itch. (Through not having a party of 12 different characters... oh well.)

However, no matter how good their design is, making the player read a book before they can start playing is generally not the best idea, nor interrupting them every two actions with another block of text about yet another thing they must now memorize.

So here's hoping for a better UI and pacing in the intro. A glossary is a must for people like me who won't remember the front-loaded explanations.
Aside from that, the text display settings might or might not be not doing anything for me, and it's hard to tell because the menu is not responsive. Keybindings (esc=menu for example.) Reducing the number of clicks it takes to make a turn down from a miminum of four. Et cetera.

Hope you find this helpful, even if working on these things is not particularly fun.
Oh, and I guess there's porn somewhere in there too. That's fine, I guess.

 

[NRFB]

If that's the case, you need to have something that actually explains the mechanics behind it.

This is a fair call. Compulsions are definitely in the category of things that I explained in release notes for whatever update I added them in better than in actual tutorial information. Honestly the room info box is in that category too.
For reference, compulsions are just:
If the strength of the compulsion is already > willpower when the condition for them is triggered, then the effect happens.
Also compulsions do remain through returning to camp and there is currently no way to lower their strengths (but there obviously will be eventually)

Also RE: difficulty comments, I do think it's fair to point out my skewed perspective as the dev, although I would also point out that, as a rougelike, failure is still a form of progress/metaprogression. It's not AS big a deal for things to be difficult as it would be without that kind of system.

(I imagine it's also a big issue for people who are color blind, since the colors are the only way to tell which stats are being changed.)

I've tried to avoid conveying anything with ONLY color coding, though I suppose you could argue the damage/healing popup text is an exception. My thinking was probably that even if you miss the numbers, the result is still present by looking at the character's stats. I suppose that does require a lot of monitoring though, and may leave you questioning what happened if a damage stat is suddenly higher than expected. I'll do some thinking on possible solutions for this one.

Okay, I've been trying to figure this out, but what kind of mind control do you have planned for this game? Is it just the corruption system altering the skills the characters can learn and how lewed they are, or is there going to be actual instances where some of the monsters can do things like hypnotize the girls and control them to do things. Will we ever see one monster hypnotize one of the girls and then send them against the others. Will we ever have to rescue one of the girls who has been captured by a trap and is being actively brainwashed. That sort of mind control.

I feel like the answers to all of these questions is "Yes" except maybe the last one, depending on how involved you're thinking that capturing is and what kind of brainwashing you mean.

Basically, one thing you probably don't have to worry about is if I'm willing to write about mind control.

 

[molitar]

Damn I can't even get past the prologue the fonts are so shitty and hard to read as I don't have good eyesight it actually strains the eyes.. Seriously fix the damn fonts they are SHIT! Second problem no way to access the configuration when prologue starts so can't change text speed and I don't know how far in that is going to take since I was getting severe eyestrain trying to read pixel fonts.

 

[Spitefire46]

Damn I can't even get past the prologue the fonts are so shitty and hard to read as I don't have good eyesight it actually strains the eyes.. Seriously fix the damn fonts they are SHIT! Second problem no way to access the configuration when prologue starts so can't change text speed and I don't know how far in that is going to take since I was getting severe eyestrain trying to read pixel fonts.

I had the same complain with a previous build, but I was certain the new one fixed that problem.

 

[molitar]

I had the same complain with a previous build, but I was certain the new one fixed that problem.

Nope too much reading with small fonts.. I was totally fucking confused when I hit down for second stairs and probably fucked up since text was so damn small I could not read it.. something about curse and temp and permanent.. allow or dispel? WTF? Dispel says you get a permanent curse point? HOW THE HELL DOES THAT EVEN WORK? Gave up even trying to read text so damn small.. went back to camp.. did research and that was all the HELL I could do.. one action and back to dungeon?

Sorry game makes no damn sense.

Dispel curses you permanently
Allow gives you a random curse which if your playing the game you are just going to keep stacking curses all the time on you
Sleeping in camp did not seem to do anything for curses that I could see
Only one research project and only able to sleep once
it's just move characters around and let them do there thing you have no control of combat or anything

It looks like a board game but the play is just AI action and forced curses.. it was getting really boring quickly since you just hit next person over and over letting them explore because no way in hell was I going to try to keep them together.