Hey, NRFB, how does it feel to know you have fans invested enough to "um, achtually" each other over your work?
Wait, what? What do you mean "see research window"?
Wait, WHAT? When was the lore section added? It's still greyed out for me! How do I activate it? This was never mentioned in a changelog. Did you somehow glitch your way into an unfinished section of the UI that's supposed to be blocked off?
...Motherfucker, there IS a glitch that lets you see the unfinished Lore section! The "Melos" and "Syra" sections of the research log are visible under certain conditions(?), but then disappear if you uncheck "show tutorial info" (which makes everything disappear) and then recheck it (which makes only the non-lore section reappear). I'm thinking that wasn't supposed to be visible yet at all. Especially since almost all of the entries are just placeholder text. "Syra: Syra. Knights: Knights." Even the last written section, High Acolytes, has some word salad in the beginning.
No mention of them being "sister goddesses", though, just a line comparing their relative age and disposition.
TFW Lucette accidentally becomes an Acolyte just because she can't supress her inner nerd around a fellow nerd.Lore said:
Ahem... At any rate, the conflict in question is mentioned (at least) twice in the game and once by the dev in this thread (just pointing to one of the game instances, but with extra context). The most prominent mention is at the end of the current content for the "Experiments" route, where the knights find a book in a language they don't recognize. But the Inquisitor recognizes it as a cipher that was used during the [Name] Conflict, which he/she has studied and should be able to decipher. I'm not sure, but I think it was even mentioned that it was specifically a cipher used by Melos's followers. I don't think it's immediately clear from this dialogue that the conflict was between followers of Melos and Syra, though, so if you missed the other clue then you could easily overlook it.
The other reference is actually from camp chatter with Lucette. She mentions wanting to learn more about the followers of Melos, and is reading a book about them, but says that it's full of "pre-conflict bias". This pretty clearly hints at a conflict between Melos and Syra followers, and how their current alliance is a "post-conflict" situation. This is backed up by NRFB mentioning that "I think Lucette says something about a pre-conflict era at some point" when I was speculating on the backstory of the gods and how they might have fought against each other.
NRFB: "But I don't want people to argue about the lore! I want them to argue about the meta!"
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Unfortunately, no. First, I do not want to toggle filters on and off as a part of my workflow. Second, I do leave some scrolls to imprint directly, without memorization. Third,
I think this is a fairly straightforward use case. I want to see my scrolls and my memorized spells. I want to see these two groups simultaneously. There is no common denominator here. Hell, I don't even insist that I see these two groups and nothing else, provided a simple sorting by scroll number and memorization is applied. So the things that I want to see come first, and all the unwanted stuff is shoved towards the end, that would be fine.
[hide unmemorized] does nothing for me, because U\{skill|unmemorized} is NOT what I want.
What does fulfil my needs is [show memorized] and [show >0 scroll count], and then maybe some extras like [show skills with requirements fulfilled], [show skills with requirements & desires fulfilled]. But again extras are just that, extras, luxury. Minor improvements.
{skill|scroll number > 0} ∪ {skill|memorized}. This is what I'd like to see.
"Oh no, people think me a better writer and worldbuilder than I a gamedesigner! Oh whatever shall I do?"
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Icky. Not sure how to start tracking it down though.
I've started writing parts of it here and there but didn't have enough done to leave it available. You finding it is an unintentional oopsie but whatever I guess.
Sister goddesses would be an informal way of referring to them as the two deities of the Syra+Melos duotheistic structure, but there's no indication of them being actually related (if such a thing would even be possible for goddesses).
This is all correct.
Both is fine, though on a lore scale that looks like:
Established facts in the game
Facts that I have decided on and written down
Facts that I have decided on in my head
General setting guidelines
Ideas
idk lol
More lore than you might expect is near the bottom. That's not to say that I'm writing things arbitrarily of course, as I very much care about consistency with previously established things when writing. It's just that I know I'm definitely stronger and more experienced in writing about characters than setting (so discussion of best girl or other aspects of the characters is also perfectly fine).
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Putting my vote that most of it stays here. What's already in the game is neat and pretty interesting, but I think the story would be much better served by keeping these details light and strictly to what's relevant to the gameplay. The mystique of the dungeon is what's most interesting imo, and mystique is usually more engaging than whatever the author comes up with anyway.
So if it's possible to not reveal something, I'd recommend not doing so. Just my two cents.
Very hard disagree here. If there's one thing I hate, it's deliberately leaving questions unanswered and leaving them "up to interpretation". Speculation is only fun if there's actually the possibility of it going somewhere, and a question with no answer is just... asfdgfakds. Especially if it's on purpose. It doesn't matter if the canon answer isn't ideal.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying that there should be a bunch of meaningless worldbuilding about stuff that has absolutely no relevance to anything. Another thing I dislike is when people try to make a world look bigger than it really is by talking about events that didn't affect anything or places that nobody has ever been to. (I'm looking at you, Elder Scrolls.) But in a way, it's the same issue. The story should be made of substance, and any mysteries should be a transitory stage between a question and an answer.
Edit 2: Actually, most of the examples I can think of the latter were really just adding onto the former. Like how Skyrim introduced a whole event in the backstory where the moons disappeared and the Thalmor took credit for bringing it back, and then it's like "lol this won't be addressed at all in this game or any other, it's a mysteryyyyy".
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Phew! So first, why aren't you willing to to use toggling as part of your workflow? Not that I think it's unreasonable or uncommon, but to me it seems so minor yet a major point for yourself that I'd like to understand more the reasoning as to why not.
Second, why do you not memorise certain skills you would consider fit for imprinting? Wouldn't you want that skill available for the next playthrough?
Third, good catch, glad that's already there.
I think I can get behind a [hide requirements not met] filter, so that I can find skills which I only need to adjust desires for.
I will say that [requirements & desires met] is almost the same as [teachable], except it would also include unmemorised skills. And as one of the four things needed to teach a skill is that it be memorised, it seems redundant when [teachable] and [memorised] filters exist. Is there a time when you would want to know [requirements & desires met] for an unmemorised skill?
Note: the last of the four things needed is the knight not knowing the skill.
Now, last time when you said that you wanted to see [imprintable] and [teachable] in "addition" to {skill|scroll number > 0} ∪ {skill|memorized} I thought you meant to use those simultaneously with your desired default filter. While [imprintable] is redundant when added to [scroll count > 0] and [teachable] is likewise with [memorised], did you actually mean you wanted to use a [teachable or imprintable] filter separately from {skill|scroll number > 0} ∪ {skill|memorized} on occasion?
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Putting aside the Skyrim/Elder Scrolls which I know next to nothing about, I think the Dark Souls community definitely shows there's a large number of people who appreciate the ambiguity and mystery of a writer who keeps their cards close to the chest.
There's also a large number of people who very much do not like that, and there are definitely a lot of examples of very failed attempts at "being just like Dark Souls", but I don't want to drag out a debate on the subject for too long. I'm just casting my vote for "please, at least don't intentionally leave things ambiguous".
(Also, the Dark Souls community has very bad reading comprehension and often latches onto lore theories that are completely backwards, but that's another subject entirely.)
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I think I understand what you mean by "intentional". In the popularity of the Dark Souls style of "show but don't tell," people who try to copy it think it works just as well to pretend they have a card they're not playing because they are still at surface level imitation. They don't bother thinking about what the answer behind the ambiguity is. Without that card in hand, they can't make good plays or need to be really good at bluffing, which requires experience with holding a good hand. Whereas a lot of good ambiguity only develops when the writer themselves have an answer so they can best know what to show and what to hide.
No, see, that's one thing I *don't* want to be intentionally done. But I'd rather not dwell on this subject too long, because the thought of arguing it really stresses me out. That's part of why I can't really articulate it well.
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Hello, I consistently crash while trying to load a save. This is the cfg file. I would like to provide the save file too but I do not know how to read the content to check there is no personal information first inside.
Are you trying to load an Alpha 12 or earlier save in Alpha 13? Active saves should generally be assumed to be incompatible between versions, but meta saves will still work. If you load up the save in the previous version, go to the options, and choose "abandon run", you should be able to start a NG+ in the latest version.
If you started your run in Alpha 13 and still can't load it in Alpha 13, then ignore what I just said. I don't think there should be any personal data in your save file, though. The only reason I could see that happening is if the dev intentionally and maliciously set it up that way, which I highly doubt is the case.
Alpha 13.1, it's a fresh run, after failing a previous run on 11 or something. You're right I should have mentioned that!
Basically, I am supposed to load the beginning of a floor. I hear some sound and music, but it's just a black screen for a few seconds until it crashes.
I prefer to double check, there might some stuff that is not supposed to be malicious (but that you do not want to give to random dudes) like folder location with user names, your windows language, your pc specs etc...
EDIT: To give a bit more details: this is the floor just after accepting the witch proposal to investigate.
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Because I know the filter setup that gets me what I want with zero toggles. Less clicks = better.
Because imprinting bypasses desires. Honestly, I consider this part well-balanced. There are three ways you can utilize a scroll, and all three have pronounced advantages and disadvantages, making them all valid.
Mostly to familiarize myself with what options are out there, theoretically, given a scroll is found (yeah, that is random, but still it's useful to have an idea of a build). Hence why it's an extra, it's not important.
I should have used the word potentially, or theoretically; my bad.
Theoretically teachable = requirements & desires met. Theoretically imprintable = requirements met
I can't really glean anything from a cfg, as it only contains the configuration options you have selected and saved.
This is fair, and probably a safe decision to make. For what it's worth, I COULD list out all of the variables that are saved in the various save files, but you'd be trusting me to be honest about it.
Though honestly for security reasons I (and by extension anyone else) probably shouldn't download save files from the internet in general. The save file format is a godot encrypted scene file that could technically contain code beyond what I've put in it for storing the save information. I don't have a tool that allows me to look at them beyond loading them into the game either. I could see how someone with enough know how could potentially do something malicious.
This is definitely safer. Officially I would recommend not sharing/downloading saves. It does, however, not give me much to go off of for what to tell you about your issue though.
This doesn't actually mean very much. The experiments start cutscene can happen at the end of any floor >= 5, and whether you accept to go along with it or not, that doesn't guarantee the floor after it be the reference floor or not.
The only difference between floors is a set of data which tells the map script the details of what should be contained in that floor (
You must be registered to see the links
). They all access the same dungeon generation code reusing the same script, so the floor number that something happens will rarely, if ever, matter.
Should probably follow this up by saying that, if the floor itself isn't doing it but the crash is consistently happening at the beginning of the floor, then the most likely culprit is something related to the knights or the Inquisitor. In other words, some combination of skills, curses, and spells. Although, now that I think about it, you can't really check what those are, can you? Hrm.
Edit: Oh, here's a thought. Does it only happen when loading a save, or did you crash at the beginning of the floor while actively playing and then keep crashing when you tried to load? If the latter, we could attempt to reproduce this by loading up a whole suite of skills and curses and moving between floors, instead of closing out and reloading. Come to think of it, did you stop at the camp between floors as well, or progress immediately from one floor to the next? Carrying over status effects from the previous floor could matter as well.
Thanks for both of you. It's when I click continue from the main menu, I see a black screen, hear some noises, then the app crashes. It might be trying to load a cutscene, or it is from the fact I decided to investigate the event before. As far as skills are concerned, I have a shit ton amount of lvl1 skills and non-rejected/accepted curses: this was supposed to be a quick run to try to unlock as many spells/curses/scenes as possible by deliberately letting autoplay take the wheel and get shit ton of corruption from the get go (and eventually fast loss). I stop at the camp between each floor, to check if there's some new research/memorization to do. If there is nothing to learn I barely interact with the knights, just skip time to the next floor.
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Eh, agree to disagree. There's not much I hate more than an author ruining a good mystery with a subpar reveal, ESPECIALLY when the reveal would not and did not enhance the experience in any way. Like the Ents in LOTR; there is so much history and lore there, but it's irrelevant to the story being told so it's not included. And although knowing these things does give more weight to Saruman's actions and the Ents' grief, the story still comes first.
With Going Deeper specifically, the entire setup (dungeon(s) popping up that nobody knows anything about but they big threat) gives me Lovecraftian Lite vibes, so I've been approaching the story behind the dungeon in that vein. If that's not what the author is going for, more power to him. But if it is, I'd prefer to express my opinions.