Others Going Deeper [Beta 2.1] [NRFB Games]

[Eidolic]

Very hard disagree here. If there's one thing I hate, it's deliberately leaving questions unanswered and leaving them "up to interpretation". Speculation is only fun if there's actually the possibility of it going somewhere, and a question with no answer is just... asfdgfakds. Especially if it's on purpose. It doesn't matter if the canon answer isn't ideal.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying that there should be a bunch of meaningless worldbuilding about stuff that has absolutely no relevance to anything. Another thing I dislike is when people try to make a world look bigger than it really is by talking about events that didn't affect anything or places that nobody has ever been to. (I'm looking at you, Elder Scrolls.) But in a way, it's the same issue. The story should be made of substance, and any mysteries should be a transitory stage between a question and an answer.

Edit 2: Actually, most of the examples I can think of the latter were really just adding onto the former. Like how Skyrim introduced a whole event in the backstory where the moons disappeared and the Thalmor took credit for bringing it back, and then it's like "lol this won't be addressed at all in this game or any other, it's a mysteryyyyy".

Eh, agree to disagree. There's not much I hate more than an author ruining a good mystery with a subpar reveal, ESPECIALLY when the reveal would not and did not enhance the experience in any way. Like the Ents in LOTR; there is so much history and lore there, but it's irrelevant to the story being told so it's not included. And although knowing these things does give more weight to Saruman's actions and the Ents' grief, the story still comes first.

With Going Deeper specifically, the entire setup (dungeon(s) popping up that nobody knows anything about but they big threat) gives me Lovecraftian Lite vibes, so I've been approaching the story behind the dungeon in that vein. If that's not what the author is going for, more power to him. But if it is, I'd prefer to express my opinions.

 

[Rosen King]

It's when I click continue from the main menu, I see a black screen, hear some noises, then the app crashes. It might be trying to load a cutscene, or it is from the fact I decided to investigate the event before.

To be clear, there was no crash prior to this? Like, you were playing normally and then shut down the game normally, but the crash only started happening after you tried to load up that otherwise normal save?

 

[Rosen King]

I wasn't gonna do Tweet Time just yet, but it occurs to me that since I've already used up some of my valuable Musk Credits(TM) to look at them, I might as well share them here. Also, two butts probably meets the minimum quota to be worth posting.

I believe I've solved MOST of the reported bugs for this version so far. There were quite a lot (thank you for all the reports), but most of them were related to only a few central issues. All going well, I may have a bugfix version out tomorrow(ish). Anyway, here's a butt.

Nice butt.

Working on a somewhat more compact UI mode (optional)

Apart from the missing buttons in the bottom right (which surely isn't from the new UI setting, right?), the one thing that feels off is how the knights' in-room stats are clearly just cut off from some other part of the UI instead of looking like its own element. Like, the part on the left has announced "MONSTER ROOM" and the part on the right is "--------". Now that I think about it, it'll probably also feel lopsided when I have the combat log closed... I'm not sure how much that will matter.

I'm also not sure how I feel about the special skill button being way off in a corner away from where any other buttons are. The status effects are only missing from that tab because she's not afflicted by any, right? Because that's "active info" that should probably be viewable at a glance even in a compact mode.

Hope it isn't too cold out...

Tranced Exhibitionism scene, or did someone just steal her clothes after she went skinny dipping? Then again, we can't rule out an inexplicably "outdoors" room in the dungeon.

 

[NRFB]

Apart from the missing buttons in the bottom right (which surely isn't from the new UI setting, right?)

The missing buttons are for scrying or checking spells. Those buttons are not visible if you don't have spells yet (so, floor 1 on a fresh save).

I'm also not sure how I feel about the special skill button being way off in a corner away from where any other buttons are.

You can also activate special skill from an ally's left click orders menu (This has always been the case actually).

The status effects are only missing from that tab because she's not afflicted by any, right?

Yes

 

[RagueltheUFO]

Game started crashing for me too. I played through it normally and the game decided to freeze when I had everyone set to rest. The game wasn't even doing much.

 

[RandomFapinator]

To be clear, there was no crash prior to this? Like, you were playing normally and then shut down the game normally, but the crash only started happening after you tried to load up that otherwise normal save?

No it crashed before too. It was always crashing but usually I would just restart the game, now I just can't even load lol
Anyway if there's a new version coming, I might as well abandon the run and do a new one when the new version comes out.

 

[Rosen King]

Anyway if there's a new version coming, I might as well abandon the run and do a new one when the new version comes out.

If you're referring to that Tweet I linked, that was actually from before the 13.1 update. The next content/gameplay update is probably around three weeks away, and if there's a gamebreaking bug in the current version, we should definitely work on figuring that out and getting a bugfix up sooner rather than later. And a simple bugfix update *should* be safe to load without needing to start over, depending on what has to be changed.

On that note...

Game started crashing for me too. I played through it normally and the game decided to freeze when I had everyone set to rest. The game wasn't even doing much.

Interesting... Was it when they were all gathered together at the safe room, or simply when you set them to path there? Since the floor always starts with the knights gathered in the safe room, it's possible that these two crashes are both related to that.

 

[Rosen King]

Alright, I think I've got the game to a reproducible state for at least one of the crashes, and I'll post my save here. I don't think this is RandomFapinator's "loading the save" bug, but it's likely connected to Raguel's. I took some other notes on various feedback throughout the run, but I'll stick the non-bug stuff in a spoiler tag.

Spoiler

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Alright, there's a crash. And if I were to wager a guess, I'd say it has something to do with Elli and Lucette having Shared Senses, which they received shortly before Elli got attacked and crashed. Probably not related to the other ones that were reported, though.


[Note: I keep saying "at camp" in this next part, but I mean the safe room. It's a picture of a campfire, so... Yeah.]

(Several floors later) ...Ah, now *there's* a crash that happened while everyone's at camp. I'm not sure exactly what triggered it, but Lucette and Raine were able to rest until it was Elli's turn. Hmm... I just embraced Sloth on her for the event. Possibly related?

...Yeah, another crash while Elli and Raine are at camp.

Third crash in quick succession, but this time it's while Elli and Raine had shared senses, and only Raine was at camp. Neither of them got hit, though, so I'm not sure which of the two potential bugs that one points towards.

Fourth. This one happened while Raine and Lucette were resting, but seemed to happen on the turn Elli hit a trap?

And fifth, just like the fourth. It seems to be the exact turn that Elli loses Well Rested. In any case, this seems to be easily reproducible, so I've included my save data from the beginning of that floor.


Edit: Another Shared Senses crash. Elli hit a mind crystal, Lucette got hit by something else. Doesn't seem to line up with the rest bug, so probably its own thing.

Edit 2: So the common factor with the rest bug seems to be Elli doing ??? while someone else is resting. I think. Though, the problem could also be Raine and I've just been too focused on Elli...

 

[RandomFapinator]

Alright, I think I've got the game to a reproducible state for at least one of the crashes, and I'll post my save here. I don't think this is RandomFapinator's "loading the save" bug, but it's likely connected to Raguel's. I took some other notes on various feedback throughout the run, but I'll stick the non-bug stuff in a spoiler tag.

Spoiler

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Alright, there's a crash. And if I were to wager a guess, I'd say it has something to do with Elli and Lucette having Shared Senses, which they received shortly before Elli got attacked and crashed. Probably not related to the other ones that were reported, though.


[Note: I keep saying "at camp" in this next part, but I mean the safe room. It's a picture of a campfire, so... Yeah.]

(Several floors later) ...Ah, now *there's* a crash that happened while everyone's at camp. I'm not sure exactly what triggered it, but Lucette and Raine were able to rest until it was Elli's turn. Hmm... I just embraced Sloth on her for the event. Possibly related?

...Yeah, another crash while Elli and Raine are at camp.

Third crash in quick succession, but this time it's while Elli and Raine had shared senses, and only Raine was at camp. Neither of them got hit, though, so I'm not sure which of the two potential bugs that one points towards.

Fourth. This one happened while Raine and Lucette were resting, but seemed to happen on the turn Elli hit a trap?

And fifth, just like the fourth. It seems to be the exact turn that Elli loses Well Rested. In any case, this seems to be easily reproducible, so I've included my save data from the beginning of that floor.


Edit: Another Shared Senses crash. Elli hit a mind crystal, Lucette got hit by something else. Doesn't seem to line up with the rest bug, so probably its own thing.

Edit 2: So the common factor with the rest bug seems to be Elli doing ??? while someone else is resting. I think. Though, the problem could also be Raine and I've just been too focused on Elli...

With this level of involvement you should be called a co-dev.

 

[Eidolic]

With this level of involvement you should be called a co-dev.

I think the term you're looking for is QA cause that's exactly what he just did

 

[NRFB]

QA stuff

I still have to look into shared senses, but the other thing was a bug with masturbation compulsion/idle hands interaction looping into itself accidentally (a CHANGE_TRACKER_VALUE check triggering another CHANGE_TRACKER_VALUE check while the requirements to prevent it from looping infinitely were specified incorrectly). So yeah the problem was with Raine (who has the curse), but it happens immediately at the start of her turn when that stuff is triggered. Attached a data mod that fixes it pretty easy. Don't think it necessarily applies to other reported crashes though. There may be more data mods later.

Edit: Shared Senses bug has been found, but explaining it would be difficult. It's a coding error so it would require a new version rather than a data mod. Unfortunate.

Maybe it's time to let us check the name of the curse in the Eschahn Shrine. Trying to memorize each curse by its icon is bad enough, but it's gotten to the point where even looking through the research log to match up the icon is getting unreasonable.

Sure thing

Something is causing the edge of the screen to turn - and stay - pink. Is that new? If not, I don't remember it being so distracting, and I can't seem to find the exact cause.

Screen tint is new, but it WAS in the change log. You can turn it off in options. The color/intensity is determined by the type and amount of damage each knight currently has.

...Okay, wait, apparently I misinterpreted something? But... Yeah, no, I'm confused. The hint says to fall for the trap while you have Sleep AND Sweet Dreams Trigger, but I don't know how to get that trigger in the first place.

I should probably make it work with the curse as well though I guess.

Flower Girl (edit: and some others) says she can inflict sex, but doesn't have any "???" scenes... I'm guessing she just has a generic sex event

Yup. Can inflict sex but has no associated event/cg (yet). I'm still hoping for more feedback on if/how changes should be made to the whole sex mechanic.

Speaking of research log weirdness, Reference Poltergeist has an event that's listed as " " and has a hint that's just "Hint:". It looks like it's the defeat event.

Now that I look at it, none of the other monsters (except the newest one as well) even have their defeat events in the research log, so I don't know why poltergeist has it set to be listed there.

 

[Rosen King]

Another attempt at finishing this run, another recurring crash. This one seems to be tied to Lucette, and possibly her Defensive Array, although it may just be her taking damage in general.

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Now that I look at it, none of the other monsters (except the newest one as well) even have their defeat events in the research log, so I don't know why poltergeist has it set to be listed there.

Ah, I didn't even notice that. Defeat events should probably be included, if only for the sake of the research log doubling as a gallery.

(And on that subject, we still need the option to view different gendered versions of sex scenes. I really want to see the new Elli scene with her doing something other than bouncing on a dick.)


Edit: Forgot to upload the save/screenshots.

Edit 2: ASDFGKHJKL. I started paying close attention this time, even leaving the combat log open so I could catch whatever happened, until I got lucky enough to spot the legendary Rat. I figured, "screw this, I'm beelining to the stairs and saving this to my research log". Nope! Lucette wakes up from a Deep Dreams Tea Set, immediately Bzorts, and crashes again. And I had just closed the combat log, too... Still, three bzorts in a row has gotta be a hint, right? And... Wait a minute... All three screenshots have her at precisely two stacks of Fury?

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Edit 3: Each example also occurred after having the Witch clear all the darkness on the floor (and possibly reveal the whole floor as well). I'm not sure if that matters, but it occurs to me that today's first example came at the very end of the floor where it took me forever to reach the Witch...

Edit 4: Alright, one more crash, and this time it was once again from a scry that hit Lucette in the same room as other characters. And... there was a Bzort? But nothing should have triggered Defensive Array from that, right? Does Conductor Bzort? Well, at this point it's 99% certain to be Bzort-related, and any further reproduction is probably pointless.

 

[NRFB]

Another attempt at finishing this run, another recurring crash. This one seems to be tied to Lucette, and possibly her Defensive Array, although it may just be her taking damage in general.

Not an easy one to have figured out here, but there were actually multiple issues playing together.
Some skills/effects need to have an extra requirement added on so that they only care when they're the one changing a tracker value (don't worry if this doesn't make sense. It's hard to explain)
Defense Array is bugged, not properly consuming Charge.
But the biggest problem is the trackeraddtoamountpositive requirement being bugged and effectively always returning true.
So the loop is/was:
Lucette takes Injury damage -> Warding blocks it -> Warding is removed -> Defensive Array grants warding (without costing any Charge) -> Conductor is triggered because it thinks the change to the Charge count is positive, so it adds more Charge -> Lucette has enough Charge to take damage from Conductor -> Lucette takes Injury damage -> ...

Will also need a new version to properly fix everything, as Requirements are code side.

Also dang this setup makes me realize how good Cable Management can be if you want perma-thorns...

The "Restricted" status effect is visible through the click thingie. (I'm super tired while writing this one, hopefully you can decipher it. Words no work.)

I think a few different particle effects need their Z levels fixed to not overlap with the orders menu, yeah.

Memetic Mantras don't seem to ever go away, and you can have both at once.

Still have to look into this one. EDIT: Copy paste error. When they try to remove themselves because their timer runs out, they try to remove the base versions instead of themselves.

For some reason, manually setting the knights to head to the Witch's Den and path past a chest is causing them not to open that chest, even though I checked that they're set to "Open Chest" while standing on it.

I did know about this one. Oversight makes it so allies will prioritize going to a set destination over opening a chest, so they'll only open them while on Explore. Not intended but wasn't so big a deal that I was going to put out a version to fix it (though now there are other things to put in along with that fix).

So wait, the invisible Lost portrait thing hasn't been addressed yet, right? Because now I've noticed that I can't even click on a room where a Lost knight is, if I'm clicking the spot a portrait would be. I'm not sure if that's caused by the recent attempt to fix it, or if fixing it is still on the to-do list and I just hadn't noticed this quirk yet.

It was changed, but I'm still finding finnicky bits with it. There are more fixes I've done on my side that aren't out yet.

Another crash, and while I can't identify the cause, this one's a bit more serious. Instead of just going "Oopsies, gotta close the game," it actually started eating up system resources and causing my fan to work overtime before finally crashing.

It causes a stack overflow, so it's eating up as much memory as it can before crashing. Sorry about that. Weirdly enough, the crashes in the previous post also cause stack overflows so you would think they'd have the same resource eating. Maybe it's just a question of how fast the memory use builds up or something.

Incidentally, with thirteen full floors and multiple repeats due to crashing, I still haven't met the new monster in this update or the second new trap from the last update (aside from the washing station). Is there some special criteria to meet them?

Monster is after finishing experiments reference floor. Trap is just floor > 5.

(And on that subject, we still need the option to view different gendered versions of sex scenes. I really want to see the new Elli scene with her doing something other than bouncing on a dick.)

It's really not all that different.

 

[Rosen King]

So the loop is/was:
Lucette takes Injury damage -> Warding blocks it -> Warding is removed -> Defensive Array grants warding (without costing any Charge) -> Conductor is triggered because it thinks the change to the Charge count is positive, so it adds more Charge -> Lucette has enough Charge to take damage from Conductor -> Lucette takes Injury damage -> ...

...Yeah, now that I'm paying close attention, it doesn't look like anything's draining charge. At least not Priming or Grounding. I'm just... gonna have Lucette sit at camp for now. (Also, how the hell did she end up with ten stacks of Reserve Battery after disarming a single trap? She didn't have any at the start of the floor.)

Weirdly enough, the crashes in the previous post also cause stack overflows so you would think they'd have the same resource eating. Maybe it's just a question of how fast the memory use builds up or something.

I noticed that it crashed a lot quicker after having already happened once. So maybe it ate up all the memory the first time and only does that issue once per computer restart or something.

Monster is after finishing experiments reference floor. Trap is just floor > 5.

...Huh. I still haven't reached the reference floor by floor 14. I'm pretty sure I chose the option to look for it, though. Is there just a chance of never encountering it?

Yeah, I just hit floor 15 and still no reference floor. I'm 90% sure I told the Witch I wanted to go to it, and I've researched pretty much everything in existence.

Spoiler: Run Commentary

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[NRFB]

...Yeah, now that I'm paying close attention, it doesn't look like anything's draining charge. At least not Priming or Grounding. I'm just... gonna have Lucette sit at camp for now. (Also, how the hell did she end up with ten stacks of Reserve Battery after disarming a single trap? She didn't have any at the start of the floor.)

Those things do drain charge, but Conductor sees the change in the charge amount, checks if the change was positive (which is bugged and always returns true), and immediately adds one charge back. Technically different but same end result of net not costing anything.

I noticed that it crashed a lot quicker after having already happened once. So maybe it ate up all the memory the first time and only does that issue once per computer restart or something.

I've added in a hard break for if the event stack goes larger than 100 (for context, normal play probably doesn't even get into the double digits most of the time) to stop adding anything more and pop up a text box with some information. A bit ugly to do, but will probably help. Only in cases where things cause infinite loops though. The other most common kind of crash (null references) will be harder to find/catch.

...Huh. I still haven't reached the reference floor by floor 14. I'm pretty sure I chose the option to look for it, though. Is there just a chance of never encountering it?

Yeah, I just hit floor 15 and still no reference floor. I'm 90% sure I told the Witch I wanted to go to it, and I've researched pretty much everything in existence.

If you agreed to look into it, average drive for knowledge between the three knights has to be Moderate or higher. If that's the case, there should be a 50/50 chance of the game picking it when deciding what your next floor is going to be between it and your normal next floor.

Okay, Anonymity's max level effect says scrying the knight won't reveal the room, but it's actually preventing scrying altogether. That means no scry bonus, no mortifying her out of masturbation, nothing.

Intended (I believe, though it was months ago so who knows), as long as it is only preventing scrying the room that character is in and not other ones. The wording is probably unclear though.

...Y'know, maybe a "scroll only" skill tag is warranted. Especially since it'll then let us filter the list to show only skills that can't be learned naturally.

Okay sure.

I'm not sure what exactly is causing Elli to push Raine out of the room when she tries to interrupt her masturbation... Same when Lucette tries. It doesn't seem to line up with any of the curses or status effects that I'm reading.

Haven't heard anything about this one.

 

[Rosen King]

Haven't heard anything about this one.

It started happening after I held Lucette back at the rest spot, slowing everything down significantly and causing curse waves to start piling up. (Incidentally, that made things a nightmare for Raine's Gluttony giving her corruption on every wave instead of just the ones that boosted that curse.) I would think that means it's connected to higher curse levels, though it could just be that the aforementioned Anonymity issue made it much more likely for me to send another knight to break her out of Masturbation. I suppose it's possible that Scatterbrained just kept triggering at exactly the wrong time, causing her to be Dazed and wander away while masturbating (if that can even happen), but that seems like too much of a coincidence when I didn't notice it happening on any turn I didn't send a knight after her.

 

[blue_krystal]

Shouldn't there be another option next to "Fight" or "Leave" like "Surrender" or something, that allows the enemy to attack without the knight attacking back? Otherwise it's pretty hard to use the sex mechanic without killing the monster first.
Also I think the sex CG might be appearing too early, you can see it pop up in the bottom left side of the screen before stopping while the text box is open, and then continuing its animation once you close it. Other than that good stuff.

 

[NRFB]

Shouldn't there be another option next to "Fight" or "Leave" like "Surrender" or something, that allows the enemy to attack without the knight attacking back?

That doesn't seem like an easy thing to justify in story, not that that should/will necessarily stop me.

Also I think the sex CG might be appearing too early, you can see it pop up in the bottom left side of the screen before stopping while the text box is open, and then continuing its animation once you close it. Other than that good stuff.

Ah yeah, I guess it would. That's what I get for never playing with autoplay events on, not that it's all that big a deal or hard to fix.

 

[Med554!]

what kind of hscenes are planned in this? From what I hear there's lesbian stuff, masturbation, and mind control at the camp. Is there any plans for monsters raping the girls in the dungeon?

 

[Rosen King]

what kind of hscenes are planned in this? From what I hear there's lesbian stuff, masturbation, and mind control at the camp. Is there any plans for monsters raping the girls in the dungeon?

There are some sex scenes with monsters in the dungeon.