Others Going Deeper [Beta 2] [NRFB Games]

[NRFB]

The bugfix version is up on itch. I'll be fixing the links on the front page later tonight, it's just annoying to upload to all of the mirror sites and such. Will edit this when it's done.

Edit: It's done.

Edit: on that note, do skills influence desires? I think they do, but if not then that may be an interesting way to make it harder for characters to acquire all the most useful skills from all different "trees" if skills themselves made it easier to meet desire req's for other skills in the same tree and harder for skills of others. At the same time, this could lead to an organic progression of higher tier skills gated behind very high desire req's that having weaker skills of the same tree will make easier to acquire.

I've thought about this, but haven't really decided on going through with it. I think my main concerns with it were mostly feeling like it would get finicky to cram into the UI somewhere (I already kinda dislike how desire changes for curses are displayed, and those don't even include the drive changes that curses cause automatically when a character gains them).

 

[Rosen King]

Also, while I disagree that the separate dropdown list is easier to navigate than going directly to arrow buttons next to the onscreen desire bars, I do agree that the alphabetical ORDER of the list made it easier to find what you're looking for. With that in mind, you could sacrifice the organic order of the desire bars for an alphabetical order. It perhaps doesn't look as pleasing but it would remove a thin layer of learning/memorising where things are.

I don't know about anybody else, but the alphabetical order wouldn't make any meaningful difference for me. Actually, it would just make it more confusing to change their order around for no reason. I think the real reason it's so much slower to find the right one is because of the difference between lining them up horizontally instead of vertically. Compare the following:

Thing ____ Another Thing ____ Something Else ____ Yet Another Thing

Versus:

Thing
Another Thing
Something Else
Yet Another Thing

It's a lot easier to scan through the latter to find what you're looking for. Of course, as far as *viewing* the stats go, the current horizontal system works perfectly and I'd hate to lose it, which is why I think the old system worked well by having a separate list in the "do stuff" part of the menu.

But in any case, I'd say leaving it in its current state is still preferable to swapping their order around arbitrarily. And changing around the bottom part into something else entirely is... undesirable.

 

[Sorter]

So is there a curse and floor guide or something, or are all curses and the floor layouts RNG?

 

[Rosen King]

So is there a curse and floor guide or something, or are all curses and the floor layouts RNG?

The floor layouts are almost entirely RNG, and curses are also RNG although they do have certain requirements before they can appear (e.g. the knight in question receiving a certain status ailment X number of times). There's no list of what those are or ways to find out without looking through the game's code (or asking the dev), though.

 

[Sorter]

The floor layouts are almost entirely RNG, and curses are also RNG although they do have certain requirements before they can appear (e.g. the knight in question receiving a certain status ailment X number of times). There's no list of what those are or ways to find out without looking through the game's code (or asking the dev), though.

Like for example the first curse we receive by default with Ellie. When does it become researchable? And are there any curses worth getting, or are they all bad, as was wasted in-game?

Also, what actions are pointless in the camp, and which should be prioritized?

 

[Rosen King]

Like for example the first curse we receive by default with Ellie. When does it become researchable? And are there any curses worth getting, or are they all bad, as was wasted in-game?

All curses can be researched as soon as they're "discovered", which requires either having their negative effects trigger in the dungeon or choosing "reveal curse" in the witch's shop. They're mostly negative, although there is one upside that will be explained when you reach floor 5.

Also, what actions are pointless in the camp, and which should be prioritized?

Probably the most important thing to do is memorize any scrolls you find. They'll be carried over into New Game+ when you die, and it doesn't take any time to do. Research also gets carried over, but if you haven't completed the first stage of research on any given enemy/trap/curse/skill/whatever, you'll have to encounter it again if you want it to be available to research. So I'd prioritize a single point of research into each new thing you encounter. Curses should probably be the first thing you research, so the next time you encounter them they won't be "???". Enemies and traps are the next priority, and skills are probably the lowest research priority early on (especially if you've already memorized the scroll).

The one thing that doesn't really have much of a purpose right now is the "spend time with X" command, which slightly increases how much they like you, but there's nothing in the game right now that requires more than a tiny bit of favor.

 

[Sorter]

All curses can be researched as soon as they're "discovered", which requires either having their negative effects trigger in the dungeon or choosing "reveal curse" in the witch's shop. They're mostly negative, although there is one upside that will be explained when you reach floor 5.



Probably the most important thing to do is memorize any scrolls you find. They'll be carried over into New Game+ when you die, and it doesn't take any time to do. Research also gets carried over, but if you haven't completed the first stage of research on any given enemy/trap/curse/skill/whatever, you'll have to encounter it again if you want it to be available to research. So I'd prioritize a single point of research into each new thing you encounter. Curses should probably be the first thing you research, so the next time you encounter them they won't be "???". Enemies and traps are the next priority, and skills are probably the lowest research priority early on (especially if you've already memorized the scroll).

The one thing that doesn't really have much of a purpose right now is the "spend time with X" command, which slightly increases how much they like you, but there's nothing in the game right now that requires more than a tiny bit of favor.

So considering all this, is it advisable to "Gotta catch 'em all! Cursemons!" Or avoid?

 

[Lurk-a-tron]

I didn't see this mentioned in the patch notes, but on the Alpha 10 version, the Shadow Sentries seem to have a special disarm event for when the knight has been captured by them which is not present in the Research Notes.

 

[NRFB]

I didn't see this mentioned in the patch notes, but on the Alpha 10 version, the Shadow Sentries seem to have a special disarm event for when the knight has been captured by them which is not present in the Research Notes.

It's the same event, it just adds extra text on if you happen to be captive when it occurs. I believe that the rope of binding does this as well.

 

[nqdss]

Sorry if this was asked before, but how can you run the game in Linux ? Or you mean it can run via Wine ?

 

[NRFB]

Sorry if this was asked before, but how can you run the game in Linux ? Or you mean it can run via Wine ?

I was initially worried that this question indicated there was something wrong with the linux version since my ubuntu laptop is a pos so I haven't really been keeping up with testing in the linux version, but it at least LOOKS like it still works now that I've checked.

So I dunno how to answer the question? The linux version is a version exported to run on linux. You do have to give the x86_64 file permissions to run as a program but other than that idk.
I've heard that running it through wine also works for mac users, but that's beside the point.

 

[yilkin]

GoingDeeper-A11.1

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[Privitarium]

I don't know about anybody else, but the alphabetical order wouldn't make any meaningful difference for me. Actually, it would just make it more confusing to change their order around for no reason. I think the real reason it's so much slower to find the right one is because of the difference between lining them up horizontally instead of vertically.

Changing the desire bars to alphabetical order isn't for old/current players, it would be for new players. Having it be in alphabetical order would, when first learning the game, remove a small layer of learning where each desire bar is. It does have the temporary downside of scrambling current players' expectations who have already learned where desires are right now until they relearn the new order (which shouldn't be long, once again because alphabetical order is something everyone learns/memorizes).

Likewise, I don't think anyone disagrees with the initial centralised system with the drop-down list and two increase/decrease buttons, but one should give the new system (which aims to remove the selection step from the process) every fair opportunity be the best it can be before deciding it's better or worse than the old system.

Personally, I think removing the drop-down list a good idea visually: the buttons and bars draw the eye, and reducing clicks needed is nice. I do, however, appreciate the intentionality of the drop-down bar: it makes the process feel more like sitting down and deliberately choosing conversation topics rather than adjusting levers on a machine.

 

[NamesAreForTheWeak]

Sorry if this was asked before, but how can you run the game in Linux ? Or you mean it can run via Wine ?

There's a separate executable download for Linux. You do have to give that executable permission to run, but it works.

 

[Rosen King]

I normally wait for a bigger backlog before commenting on Tweets, but I had a whole-ass meme and several paragraphs in response to this one, so... Individual Tweet Time.

Pinks are commonly lewd

The Goddess of Extra must be stopped.

Spoiler: Propaganda

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(Paid for by the Campaign to Elect the Inquisitor as the Lesser of Two Evils, and The Witch's Association for Knowing How to Make a Silly Hat Work.)

Incidentally, it's probably about time to add a way to rewatch the story cutscenes at will. I had to dig way deeper than I should probably have to to find that picture of Eschahn, which even required me to disable some of the NG+ options. And rewatching (or skimming) through a cutscene I hadn't seen in ages because of that made me realize that I has completely missed how *explicit* the game was about the three goddesses representing body/mind/heart. There's some stuff I wanted to re-examine about some other scenes, but... Yeah. Particularly since, unlike some other games, I can't just make a separate save before and after certain scenes.

Speaking of that cutscene, there's been something I've been wondering about for a while. Are we ever going to get to see (or hear about) the Melos-brand mind control that the Inquisitor mentions having read about? The Witch seems rather insistent that this particular mind control is actually Eschahn-brand "desire control", and I've gotta wonder how Melos's variety differs and what fun stories the Inquisitor has been privy to.

Perhaps the answer to both of those last two paragraphs lies in the still-greyed-out "lore" section of the menu. That seems like it might be a good place to rewatch story cutscenes, and maybe even see a few "bonus" scenes that take place outside the events of the game... Or at least read about them.

 

[Rosen King]

Tweet time:

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Local game dev finally settles on implementation of Leadership skill.

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Allow me to exacerbate the problem with some skill ideas:

"We Have Each Other": If the knight is in an empty room with another knight whose lust is above X, trigger a Lust Break that doesn't cause any Permanent Corruption damage and resets lust to Y, while also causing Z lust damage to this knight. (Any other effects of Corruption Breaks, e.g. interaction with other skills, spells, and curses, still occurs.)

"Soothing Voice": The knight inflicts Trance on any other knights in the room, during which negative mental statuses such as Shaken tick down twice as fast.

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What da button do?

 

[NRFB]

Local game dev finally settles on implementation of Leadership skill.

The funny thing is that I kinda haven't still.

 

[Privitarium]

The funny thing is that I kinda haven't still.

So I don't know if this helps, but would it be alright if "support" skills WERE your leadership skills? I don't know/remember what ideas you had in mind for how leadership could work, but I couldn't help as I was thinking about it that any sort of guidance-based leadership treads on the inquistor's role of leading/commanding the expedition. In which case I thought it might be better to look at in-game leadership skills as supportive as opposed to spearheading (although now I've just thought of a support skill that triggers on the holder's success, rather than their presence or ally's success).

Then again, if you wanted you could have some way of emulating command as enabling allies to operate normally in circumstances they wouldn't otherwise (darkness, trance, shaken). I don't like this idea much though, because I feel it trivialises a major obstacle/challenge of the game.

 

[NRFB]

So I don't know if this helps, but would it be alright if "support" skills WERE your leadership skills? I don't know/remember what ideas you had in mind for how leadership could work, but I couldn't help as I was thinking about it that any sort of guidance-based leadership treads on the inquistor's role of leading/commanding the expedition. In which case I thought it might be better to look at in-game leadership skills as supportive as opposed to spearheading (although now I've just thought of a support skill that triggers on the holder's success, rather than their presence or ally's success).

I don't really understand what you mean here.

For context, the current version of leadership at max rank looks like:

It's decently strong, but requires you to play around keeping Lucette near the others to use it as a trade off to access that strength. I'm not really sold on it.

 

[Privitarium]

I don't really understand what you mean here.

For context, the current version of leadership at max rank looks like:
View attachment 2628918
It's decently strong, but requires you to play around keeping Lucette near the others to use it as a trade off to access that strength. I'm not really sold on it.

Looks like I misunderstood things. I thought leadership was going to be a type of skill, like fury and support, not a specific skill. So essentially I was trying to say: "rather than two separate skill types/tags, why not just make support and leadership one?"

My next thought was trying to break down and assess different types of leadership, how to emulate them, and whether they would work well. There's
1) guidance/commands/giving orders
2) support, which is healing, buffing, enabling
3) inspiring, or leading by example (which I only remembered as I wrote)

For the first case, I ruled it out because it would need to be an activated ability (which didn't fit the mold of any other skills as a precedent) and was too similar to what the player does.

However, if Leadership is going to be an exclusive support skill and activated ability, then that opens the box for a lot of possibilities. It could be a burst skill where Lucette triggers her allies' actions if they're in the same room as her (similar I assume to Raine's Spin Move but can be used against traps and reliant on allies in exchange for higher potential).

As for the current iteration, it looks okay except that it demands much more micro-management to use effectively, particularly because it also requires a nearby ally, which seems contrary to the spirit of the dungeon-half of the game. I think it might be better for it to be more powerful/long-lasting and less frequent. It also seems like a skill worth augmenting with a secondary skill (one that consumes charge for boosted effect or turn it into an aura/aoe maybe?).