VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[ptahn]

Am I responsible for all the Star War/Star Trek references? You all know I was joking about the nerd trifecta. I had not intended to open that door.

 

[preglovr12]

Am I responsible for all the Star War/Star Trek references? You all know I was joking about the nerd trifecta. I had not intended to open that door.

No, I am I think by referencing TLJ a few pages back, then Discovery was of my own accord as well. I don't actually remember reading your post.

 

[Segnbora]

I'd like to thank you for a productive discussion, which is increasingly rare in this thread.

I'm not sure I'd say it's obvious when she offers to talk at home. She seems to be grinning, which might be because she just fucked her brother and whatnot

By "home" do you mean the family home? Then I agree that she's not thinking about it at all while there. She's still having/in the aftermath of sex with DreamBrother. This is the realization of her dream. She'll say anything at this point as long as it doesn't break her fantasy. Nothing she says — even initiating a conversation about her past sexual partners — can break the power of that dream. That, at least, is 100% clear and obvious during that particular scene.

I think the least she could do* is answer the first question MC asks about why he'd be mad

I'm sure you would. But consider why she wouldn't. "I had sex at 15." Would he be mad about that? Probably, especially if he hadn't and because she's his sister. "I had sex with a middle-aged teacher at 15." Would he be mad about that? Almost certainly. She's not so blind as to fail to consider that he might do something about it, which she'd be against since she considers herself the instigator. "I had sex with a middle-aged teacher at 15 and it destroyed my relationship with my mother, except I'm not going to tell you about that because you'll be even angrier." If that's her thought process, then the very last thing she'd want to do would be to let him into her head.

"I'll tell you anything you want to know" might be a convenient dodge. "No, it's all fine, I'm an open book, there's nothing more to tell." Since she then goes on to dodge, and weave, and dodge again, I think this is a reasonable interpretation. Is it correct? We'll see.

Unless she told the same thing to the mom when she told her, but Haley seems smart enough to not want to repeat the same mistake twice (unless that's the whole point).

I continue to suspect that her Mom doesn't know the full truth. I mean, if I had to commit to this particular storyline it's how I'd write it, so maybe it's just projection on my part. Mom knows that something happened but Haley has stonewalled her for years. Mom no longer trusts Haley and no longer trusts Haley's judgement. Mom thinks Haley needs protection. Mom sees a very clear and impenetrable wall that Haley has erected between them. Dad might not know because of Mom's choice; fathers often have a very different relationship to their daughters' sex lives than mothers do, as I've just experienced with my nieces. Mom may, in fact, resent the comfort of Haley's relationship with her father because he's not bearing the burden of her never-unearthed secret.

If — and it's pure speculation — this is the backstory, then Haley will never voluntarily give her brother the same opportunity to criticize her. She gave him the name, but after that it's still settled history in her head and he's just being annoying and invasive the same way Mom was. Haley knows that no one she's told agrees with her, but she doesn't care. What matters is that she's finally got her brother.

Again, that's an incredibly interesting conflict. At worst, he might need to choose between their relationship — and I don't just mean the romantic/sexual version — and her emotional health. So will she. Is that a lighthearted sex romp with clever dialogue? No, but that doesn't mean it can't be at least the latter of those things.

It's a strange thing to offer to talk if she's not willing to do so. It's not like MC is demanding answers right then and she's just trying to throw him a halfhearted bone in the spur of the moment.

But it's two completely different narratives. He has one — the one most players share — that she's been a victim and that she's in denial. She has another. They agree on two facts: she had sex with Klaus and the MC's going to be mad about it. Every other fact and emotion related to the event is something about which they disagree. Why would she open that door if she can avoid it? They're still having adorable sex and crosswords and such.

One can't just look at this story through the player's eyes or the MC's eyes. Haley's eyes, especially as the titular character, also matter. And they do not see the same things the same way.

At the end of the day we don't know who to blame the faults on.

I honestly don't think it matters; either you like the story or you don't. I think the endless attempt to assign blame is disingenuous (again, not your angle) and mostly irrelevant. But I'd push back on this.

I just wish the audience was more in on what's happening.

Do you always consume spoilers the moment they become available? If so, then fine. If you don't, then I'd say that there are many people who would really like to experience fiction as it comes, not as they expect it to come.

 

[ptahn]

No, I am I think by referencing TLJ a few pages back, then Discovery was of my own accord as well. I don't actually remember reading your post.

Now my feelings are hurt.

 

[ptahn]

But it's two completely different narratives. He has one — the one most players share — that she's been a victim and that she's in denial. She has another. They agree on two facts: she had sex with Klaus and he's probably going to be mad about it. Every other fact and emotion related to the event is something about which they disagree. Why would she open that door if she can avoid it? They're still having adorable sex and crosswords and such.

One can't just look at this story through the player's eyes or the MC's eyes. Haley's eyes, especially as the titular character, also matter. And they do not see the same things the same way.

If it goes as planned, they will come to see the Klaus incident the same way. I came beck to this discussion because it seemed like there was a lot of activity here. What I am finding is a lot of people (me included) saying the same things that they themselves or someone else has said before. There may be some people new to the forum that have similar ideas to those that have already been expressed causing others to reply in the same fashion as they did when that idea was first expressed. I just can't help but wonder are we posting comments for the sake of posting.

 

[Segnbora]

There's far too much repetition, for sure. "I don't like the plot twist" is, by now, a terribly uninteresting comment from people who've been posting since before it happened. From a new poster, OK. From the regulars it's tiresome. "Trust the devs" isn't much better and equally tiresome. I'm not sure I have anything new to say; I'm engaging with one or two people because I think their insight regarding the shift is interesting and thoughtful even though I don't agree with them, and I think we've collaboratively teased out some nuances even though we don't necessarily agree on what they mean. If I took a vacation until the next update I seriously doubt the thread would change much. It'd just be shorter.

 

[preglovr12]

I'd like to thank you for a productive discussion, which is increasingly rare in this thread.

It's almost like remaining civil, not calling people names, and trying to understand the other side of the discussion leads to good discussions.

There's far too much repetition, for sure. "I don't like the plot twist" is, by now, a terribly uninteresting comment from people who've been posting since before it happened. From a new poster, OK. From the regulars it's tiresome. "Trust the devs" isn't much better and equally tiresome. I'm not sure I have anything new to say; I'm engaging with one or two people because I think their insight regarding the shift is interesting and thoughtful even though I don't agree with them, and I think we've collaboratively teased out some nuances even though we don't necessarily agree on what they mean. If I took a vacation until the next update I seriously doubt the thread would change much. It'd just be shorter.

Agreed. It's been nice but I feel like I've made my points and we're about to start going around and around.

By "home" do you mean the family home? Then I agree that she's not thinking about it at all while there. She's still having/in the aftermath of sex with DreamBrother. This is the realization of her dream. She'll say anything at this point as long as it doesn't break her fantasy. Nothing she says — even initiating a conversation about her past sexual partners — can break the power of that dream. That, at least, is 100% clear and obvious during that particular scene.

No, I meant the apartment, my bad. Me calling it "home" is likely a byproduct of just having seen them discuss it as more of a home than their childhood home.

If that's her thought process, then the very last thing she'd want to do would be to let him into her head.

-

But it's two completely different narratives. He has one — the one most players share — that she's been a victim and that she's in denial. She has another. They agree on two facts: she had sex with Klaus and the MC's going to be mad about it. Every other fact and emotion related to the event is something about which they disagree. Why would she open that door if she can avoid it? They're still having adorable sex and crosswords and such.

I don't really have anything more to say that I haven't already said about this. She offered him answers then shuts him down. I'm sure there's endless possibilities to why and I'm not saying they can't be valid ones either, but I feel like I shouldn't be sitting here searching for them with no guidance (more later). She could have dismissed any further conversation in the bed right after she told him, but she does the exact opposite and it doesn't seem like a response to get him off her back (certainly not literally ).

I interpreted their "world keeps turning" talk at the lake as a post-incest conversation but it very well could have been about Haley telling MC about her first time as well. If Haley wanted to correct anything from last night that seemed like the time. MC even makes a joke about how bad she was in the sack so I don't interpret any tension between them, but that all ends in the van.

I honestly don't think it matters; either you like the story or you don't. I think the endless attempt to assign blame is disingenuous (again, not your angle) and mostly irrelevant. But I'd push back on this.

It's an understanding thing. In universe weirdness from a rape victim is a lot different from two authors that can't agree and can't progress to write a good story. It doesn't "matter" but I'm a person that likes to extrapolate from information and I feel like I have no information.

Do you always consume spoilers the moment they become available? If so, then fine. If you don't, then I'd say that there are many people who would really like to experience fiction as it comes, not as they expect it to come.

I do actually but that's not really what I'm talking about. I don't want Viit to come here and explain his thought processes or anything, I just which MC would do some sort of mental narration or something. A lot of these games have some form of making sure the audience is on the same page as the story with internal dialogue, and this game doesn't for some reason. Sure it's a creative choice but it's a little agitating to me. I want to know more and I have no avenues to take. I feel like I'm being strung along rather than part of the story itself. As I've said, maybe that's the intention.

This update only had two choices in it as well, and both were about sex. I understand MC's not going to force the issue but it'd be nice to get a little more control and possibly an option to ask why she's going back on her offer to talk rather than just watching the time lapse that goes on for however long that is.

 

[ptahn]

'Nuff said.

 

[Segnbora]

Right, so I think you and I are done until there's more content. Here's my last response (to you) and I don't at all care if it's the last word.

She offered him answers then shuts him down. I'm sure there's endless possibilities to why and I'm not saying they can't be valid ones either, but I feel like I shouldn't be sitting here searching for them with no guidance (more later).

I feel like there has been. I feel like the residual unresolved trauma and the aftermath of her arguments with her mother could easily explain it. Are those the reasons? Mabye or maybe not, but those are significant enough revelations that I wouldn't expect them to be blown through in a short update that takes place in a day or two after the shocking twist. I've already agreed that the pacing's odd. I just don't find Haley's resistance inexplicable. I think she's lying when she says she wants to tell him everything. Obviously you don't.

It's an understanding thing. In universe weirdness from a rape victim is a lot different from two authors that can't agree and can't progress to write a good story. It doesn't "matter" but I'm a person that likes to extrapolate from information and I feel like I have no information.

I'd gently suggest that you probaby shouldn't extrapolate in an absolute vacuum of evidence and shouldn't be influenced by the prolific posters who are. Like or dislike the narrative on its own merits. I really have no idea who's responsible for this storyline. "Waterfall of incoherent text" doesn't either, though he certainly claims to. "Ragelord" doesn't either. And even if you did know, would it change your opinion of the story? Apparently not. Viit doesn't have any other games (or does he?), so you can't really base a strategy on him. Ptolemy does, but the argument that his games are similar is the weakest of weak sauce, so I (personally) dismiss that as well.

I just which MC would do some sort of mental narration or something.

Again, I think this is fundemental disconnect in how we view this story. Or maybe stories in general. In a sufficiently competent story (which: not Milfy Beach Hoiiday Orgy 2020) I view every character as having their own internal narrative. The MC has a narrative, and since he's our avatar we're inclined to agree with it. But it's not the only narrative, and in a good story the NPC's narratives are of equal value. Lisa has a story we mostly know through Sandra's eyes until the hotel incident, at which point we really kinda have to reevaluate Lisa's worldview. Adriana has a story we don't know at all until Victor and Haley and her husband and the MC force the issue. Sandra has her own story, and we still don't know why she's the way she is. Victor's story is being peeled back in layers; I doubt most people thought he was gay when he was introduced. The twins' mother has a story that's really difficult and mostly impenetrable right now. And Haley has a very, very complicated story. This is fertile ground (not, unless there's a pregnancy tag [he says nervously, viewing your username], literally), and it should be explored.

But even with the MC: why is he cool with Jack but ragey about Nick? Why is he fine with Diane and Alana sleeping around but annoyed with what his long-ago ex did well after they broke up?

Everyone has their own voices in their head. The best stories will prioritize all of them.

I feel like I'm being strung along rather than part of the story itself.

I'd love to see The Lord of the Rings as a Patreon-funded novel. "Whhhyyyyy didn't the Eagles just fly them from Rivendell to Mount Doom?" Yes, the fact that this has been a constant observation informs my joke.

Anwyay, I think we've explained ourselves to each other. Give a response a shot if you want. Cheers and let's revisit when the next rage-inducing update drops.

 

[preglovr12]

I just don't find Haley's resistance inexplicable. I think she's lying when she says she wants to tell him everything. Obviously you don't.

Maybe I'm too honest in real life to fundamentally understand, but why bother offering up that lie seemingly unprovoked in the first place? If anything did change her mind I hope we learn about it.

This is fertile ground (not, unless there's a pregnancy tag [he says nervously, viewing your username], literally), and it should be explored.

This is one of the few games on this site in which that would be a very bad thing. I'm not so single minded I want it everywhere and don't recognize where it's not needed (or would be a major detriment.)

But even with the MC: why is he cool with Jack but ragey about Nick? Why is he fine with Diane and Alana sleeping around but annoyed that is long-ago ex did well after they broke up?

Very good questions. It's like both Haley and MC are stuck at high school still. No wonder they're so fucked up, high school blows. I hope we don't have a reunion soon, thankfully they don't seem old enough.

 

[Segnbora]

Briefly: I don't think they're that mature. Has anything that's happened in the game thus far suggested otherwise?

 

[preglovr12]

Briefly: I don't think they're that mature. Has anything that's happened in the game thus far suggested otherwise?

Not really. Haley seemed to be fairly responsible early on, but due to them being siblings I highly doubt they'd act too mature around each other. Haley seems to be fairly mature up until the flirting with Richard thing, but she handles the work meeting well afterwards, besides the mention of cake.

 

[Segnbora]

She's fake-mature. She's the "domme" but it's all an act (and a pointed one, given the later narrative). It is with both of them, actually. They're faking adulthood and they're living together, which they don't yet realize is a way to avoid becoming adults.

It's essential to the narrative. Both of them are faking. Not unusual for early adults. But her mummery is vastly more consequential.

 

[apnea111]

She's fake-mature. She's the "domme" but it's all an act (and a pointed one, given the later narrative). It is with both of them, actually. They're faking adulthood and they're living together, which they don't yet realize is a way to avoid becoming adults.

It's essential to the narrative. Both of them are faking. Not unusual for early adults. But her mummery is vastly more consequential.

Well according to story they are both between early to mid 20s.

Everyone has a different definition for maturity but how story portrayed till 0.55 the MC.

He has the full trust of his parents.
He has his first job in which he Is succesfull, Already climbing the ladder.
Highly socially intelligent.
Having more than boss-employees relationship with both of his bosses.
Protecting his Sister at her work, either by helping her deal with the extremely high amount of work adriana Is giving her, consulting her avoid behaviors that are by default gonna cause her troubles, or by even confronting adriana.
By players option having sex with 5 fc (sex with the 6th Is imminent). Someone here could pull out the immaturity card. I find it Highly common a 25 old man having sidechicks when opportunity Is presented. Yet again its by players option and having sex with 5-6 fcs at the same time Is a high capability Index.
By players option having sex with 2 fc. The least polygamous he can be by developers option. Cheating on sandra in a game of inctestuous nature where Everyone knew from Start the he will have a sexual relationship with haley at Some point.
Well at Some points he doesnt picks up Well flirting signs and needs dating advice such As offering a flower, but thats a typical mans behavior even for 40 years old dudes. By default women can pick up flirting signs better than Men and can offer great dating advice.
Always by option portrayed able to give the right answer, ask the right question, or show the right attitude in every occasion until 0.55 when he became autistic (by dev option).

Everyone Can take the above points and project them on how halleys character in terms of maturity was portrayed till 0.55

Probably the attemp here Is to smoothen or to justify the character inconsistencies after 0.55.

Mcs character Is totally twisted at Last updates.
Stays silent cudling with his sister after the Mr Klaus revelation.
He Is Already angry and Already believes his Sister Is adressing him the way he adressed her rapist. He adresses the issue and gets the ignore treatment without speaking up. Haley hits him up again with the "goodnight daddy" line and he remains silent. He doesnt start a disqusion at the lake. Haley calls him daddy again at the lake he reacts but then again the disqussion Is closed in another autistic conversation. He tries to speak up at the Van, haley backtracks from her previous stance or promise, he gets cut of. Again an autistic dialoque leading to nowhere. After they return home again a sexual- daddy reference
"That Pussy belongs to you daddy"
He Goes "He... He... “

While Cant see the obvious that haley has a troubled relationship with their mom.
While making fun with the panties incident although could and still can (what common sense rule forbits dad bringing up the issue to his wife while they are not present) expose the couples relationship.

Going around exposing his Sister rape case to typical buddies or fuckbuddies when they both are in couples close everyday social circle. Regardless his Sister perspective and without her knowledge.

While continuing having sex with his Sister so fappers can be happy.

A Complete transformation of a Highly capable, with typical of or above his age maturity showing, always capable of bringing up the right arguement or displaying the right attitude, sexually initiative, Highly social intelligent character to a miserable autistic Beta human dildo. Fucking his troubled traumatized Sister while her rapist Is in the room. On both participants minds and souls.

And yes halley was faulted by storys narative from Start. And presented imature from start.
But also caring and empathetic towards her brother. And playfull and girly.
Then came the Last 2 updates. When her flaws where justified in such manner they were oveboosted.

And the loving attributes of her character either vanished (empathy) or transformed to behavior symptoms of a Highly troubled and traumatized dealing with longterm mental issues personallity.

Yes it Haleys story but from default players or spectators live the story from Mcs perspective.

Everyone Is expecting Mcs actions to set the way things will proceed from now. He wasnt autistic till 0.55. And he isnt doomed to remain autistic in coming update.

By presenting MC autistic prior to 0.55, not commenting his totally transformed or twisted character in 0.55 and 0.60, and finding realistic and making common sense continuing displaying that character in coming updates, two things are poorly attempted.

To poorly justify all the shit that was thrown Into the story in Last 2 updates. (Already seen that. Nothing New)

But most importantly to poorly prejustify the additional shit thats predicted to be thrown Into the story in coming updates (Well thats New. I guess Everyone now can see it coming)

 

[Ragnar]

I think they avoiding to discuss about the elephant in the room makes sense in 0.60.
-The MC reaction to the revelation in 0.55.
-Haley knows he is angry since D day.
-We know she probably fought with her mother in the past due to that same thing.
-Haley shutting down whenever he tries to bring up the subjet.
-MC trying to do something to solve the entire mess.

 

[vir_cotto]

And she keeps calling MC "Daddy". How sweet...

 

[apnea111]

I don't count this as failing the "no more discussion" standard because this is a very new, totally original discussion.

Refering to what?

To our disqussion? I am always open to disqusion when there are real arguments envolved.

Or to the newly introduced to the game autistic disqussions pattern?

If the second hell yeah you do.
Cause it fits your arguments and also your perspective of the storys u turn.

Well partially...

Cause autistic disqussions leading to nowhere even in the most easilly solvable matters, if New and original in story As you mentioned, lead to describing New and original aspects of characters in the story.

In a New introduced to story pattern Already mentioned. The outcome justifing the cause and not the opposite.

MC reveals his Sister rape case to typical buddies or fuckbuddies? So since the outcome Is that maybe the cause (being more than buddies or fuckbuddies) was Already in the story. Come on look closer Into the story. Cant you see it? No. Look closer under the New scope of their relationship. Sry still no.

MC Is portrayed As a imature Beta autistic human dildo? The same.No
Halley being raped.?The same. No
Sandra also being raped? The same. No.
Halley being unempathetic to her brother? The same. No.
Haley being so faulted that even the loving attributes of her character are symptoms of her traumatized troubled mental condition? The same. No.

In great story writing the cause defines the outcome. Even in plot twist when the outcome defines the cause, the cause Is there clear for Everyone to see and figure out that it made sense for the story to go that way.

Looking back prior to 0.55 noone could see the 2 main fc being raped by the end of 0.60. Looking after 0.60 back to story still noone gets how raping them was the logical and predescribed way to go.

Looking back prior to the end of 0.55 were Everyone anticipated the couple to evolve their relationship noone could predict that by the end of 0.60 MC would be fucking a rape victim while the victim Is adressing him the way he adressed her rapist.

The irony of things or better the parody of things Is that ptolemy was furious with the ntr arguements.
And those dudes managed by lack of skills or sensitivity to deal with all the shit that brought Into their story, by the end of 0.60 to have a content far more disturbing and twisted than ntr.

If they rape them all in next updates, still the outcome justifies the cause pattern could be applied. And still there would be someone claiming that the conditions preexisted.

In rl not many conditions are required to be raped. Waking alone in a dark alley or in an elevator Is enough. Plus a pervert being around.

So i quess also in adult gaming where perverts always being around, all it takes Is lack of skill or sensitivity. Gaining patrons also help.

So sry Mate. But again no.

 

[apnea111]

I think they avoiding to discuss about the elephant in the room makes sense in 0.60.
-The MC reaction to the revelation in 0.55.
-Haley knows he is angry since D day.
-We know she probably fought with her mother in the past due to that same thing.
-Haley shutting down whenever he tries to bring up the subjet.
-MC trying to do something to solve the entire mess.

There are different issues pending. Cant deal with all of them at once. And noone expects to swiftly have a resolution in the Mr Klaus issue. But there are issues that are easilly solvable.


So giving you an example. Rewriting the first night after returning scene.

The original one

H "My Pussy Is yours daddy."
"Here.... at work... the post office..."
P "He... He..."
"The post office?"
H "I am a good girl"
P " I am pretty tired, through."
"You fell asleep in your usual position that night"
"But with Haley vigulousky clasping your hand between her thighs"

Mine non natives english speaker, non proofread version

...
"She takes your hand and slides it up her t-shirt."
H "My Pussy Is yours, daddy."
"Here.. At work...at...."
"You raise you hand and close her mouth with your finger"
P "Shousss"
"She seems suddened"
P " I want to talk to you"
H "What ab..."
P "Shousss"
"Tried to talk to you earlier but you kept cutting me of. So i will do the talking"
"She lowers her head"
P "You are the most loving person in the world to me"
"But after Last night i dont know how i feel about my self"
"She raises her head and looks staight Into your eyes"
P "I feel angry or confused. Or that i failed to protect you"
"We will disquss the matter even if you are not willing to. But not today"
"If not with me then with whom haley?"
"Also asked you to cut of the daddy thing"
"She lowers her head again"
P "It was annoying. Now has become disturbing"
"You pick up her chin"
P "Can you do that for me?“
" She nodes her head without speaking"
P "Of course you can. Its you. You can do anything"


"You laid in your usual position that night"
"But didnt get much sleep"
"Sun was Already up while you were still deep low into your thoughts"


"Was it selfish of me bringing up what annoyes me? Shit... I guess it was. But Yet again. How can you love someone without loving your self? God... Does she love herself? Does she?


" It suddendly made sense. Its not me. Its not him. Its not even us. Its all about her..."


"You move your head closer. Putting your face Into her head"
"God those llilacs..."


"In that moment Mr Klaus had left the room. Didnt even exist or existed. So did you.

An empty room. In an empty house. Only Haley. And her llilacs..."

"You kiss the back of her head"


P "Sry Haley. Sry if i will Hurt you. Its not about me. Its not about us. Everything Is about you. It always was. This Is your story..."

 

[Ragnar]

There are different issues pending. Cant deal with all of them at once. And noone expects to swiftly have a resolution in the Mr Klaus issue. But there are issues that are easilly solvable.


So giving you an example. Rewriting the first night after returning scene.

Well, yeah, they can solve plenty in one update if they want, but this is a monthly VN after all and the Klauss thing is probly the biggest plot point right now.

 

[TheGR8STNoob]

the updates seem smaller and smaller. breezed through this one in less than 5 minutes.