VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[Segnbora]

Wow, twisting my words there.

Okay...

Her calling MC as Daddy, being submissive and taken control over, MC pulling her hair and her liking it... all points to a fractured mind and not a healthy relationship.

...except that's exactly what you said.

Whether Haley is submissive or dominant is irrelevant at the age of 15.

Agreed, but Haley in the game isn't 15. She's an adult. We don't interact with her 15-year-old sexuality. We interact with her sexuality as an adult.

You sound more like her mom in the game.

Alternatively, I sound more like someone who knows many dominant and submissive people in real life and finds your initial insistence that it's unhealthy and fractured incredibly offensive.

My point is that she likes it more cause that's the first thing she ever experienced and at that time she thought that it was of her free will and she wanted it.

Except that the story has subsequently gone well out of its way to demonstrate that she didn't want it and so her submissive tendencies actually have nothing at all to do with Klaus raping her.

 

[Deleted member 1957140]

Okay...


...except that's exactly what you said.


Agreed, but Haley in the game isn't 15. She's an adult. We don't interact with her 15-year-old sexuality. We interact with her sexuality as an adult.


Alternatively, I sound more like someone who knows many dominant and submissive people in real life and finds your initial insistence that it's unhealthy and fractured incredibly offensive.


Except that the story has subsequently gone well out of its way to demonstrate that she didn't want it and so her submissive tendencies actually have nothing at all to do with Klaus raping her.

This is my second and last reply to you. You are definitely one of those people who likes to attack others who don't have same opinion as you and you attack their every words by looking through a magnifying glass. It doesn't matter what views my entire post portrays, you'll find one line out of it and twist it.

"I hate people who like submissive sex". There. Quote it. That's what you are going for all this time. I'm sure you'll love to attack me now and others will like your comment.

Keep up the good work. Nice life to you.

 

[Segnbora]

"I hate people who like submissive sex". There. Quote it. That's what you are going for this time.

You're adorable. Enjoy blocking me. You won't get much out of it, honestly.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

Well that makes sense. But Haley seems like submitting and calling daddy during sex. Although It may be affected by Klaus , if Haley does like that then no big deal I think. What important is that Haley feels happy with MC and having sex with him no matter submitting or not. She has positive attitude towards everything now no need to bring up old pain to upset her. So I think it's not necessary take Haley to therapy or uncover her old wounds but Klaus should be punished sooner or later

I strongly disagree, there are professionals with years of experience helping people like Haley cope with their trauma. It sucks now but in the future getting her help will have turned out for the better as opposed to doing nothing.

 

[Glooskabe]

I have seen similar 'imprinting' in another game (Summer Scent).
One of the girls had her first sexual experience (spying on her parents) being Femdom.
So she believes and acts as though that is the way a sexual relationship is supposed to work.

While it is true that Cassie in Summer Scent witnessed her father having Femdom sex with her Nanny, her skewed views on that topic don't come from that alone. In fact, Nanny pretty actively indoctrinates her that this is the way things are supposed to be.

Summer Scent is a great game by the way, and I thoroughly recommend it. (If you want the Femdom content, rub her feet. If not, don't!) However, further discussion of that game here would be inappropriate.

 

[Segnbora]

Agreed. Haley wants/needs a lot of things right now, but one of them is professional help with her trauma. Not some fake-alpha violent revenge fantasy. Actual help via therapy.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

Well that makes sense. But Haley seems like submitting and calling daddy during sex. Although It may be affected by Klaus , if Haley does like that then no big deal I think. What important is that Haley feels happy with MC and having sex with him no matter submitting or not. She has positive attitude towards everything now no need to bring up old pain to upset her. So I think it's not necessary take Haley to therapy or uncover her old wounds but Klaus should be punished sooner or later

Also I think it's borderline cruel of you think it isn't necessary to get Haley help when she's clearly exhibited some serious alarming traits of an abuse victim.

 

[Glooskabe]

Agreed. Haley wants/needs a lot of things right now, but one of them is professional help with her trauma. Not some fake-alpha violent revenge fantasy. Actual help via therapy.

I totally 100% agree with you. But afterward, can we indulge our violent revenge fantasies? Pretty please?

 

[Segnbora]

I totally 100% agree with you. But afterward, can we indulge our violent revenge fantasies? Pretty please?

I'm not saying I'm against them. It'd definitely be therapeutic for players and Ptolemy's admitted as much. Just that an ethical and loving focus on what's important — Haley's recovery — doesn't involve violence and doesn't involve her brother going to jail for assault. Because whether or not Klaus raped her (and he did) the MC can't get away with beating the shit out of Klaus. If there's going to be violence it has to be far more deftly played.

And now there's Haley the Younger to consider, and I seriously mean that. There are many solutions that traumatize her (assuming she hasn't been victimized, which isn't a supportable assumption yet) that the MC absolutely can't pursue.

 

[Glooskabe]

I'm not saying I'm against them. It'd definitely be therapeutic and Ptolemy's admitted as much. Just that an ethical and loving focus on what's important — Haley's recovery — doesn't involve violence and doesn't involve her brother going to jail for assault. Because whether or not Klaus raped her (and he did) the MC can't get away with beating the shit out of Klaus. If there's going to be violence it has to be far more deftly played.

And now there's Haley the Younger to consider, and I seriously mean that. There are many solutions that traumatize her (assuming she hasn't been victimized, which isn't a supportable assumption yet) that the MC absolutely can't pursue.

*sigh* Being an ethical pervert sucks some times!

 

[lorddarkam]

Damn! I wish hadn't played this game.

First of all I don't hate this game. It's amazing for almost all parts of it. 5/5 material. It's just one plot point I can't swallow and has ruined the game for me forever. Mr. Klaus.

This is not a game where you bed someone after one or two scenes with them. In fact there may be 50 something scenes with Haley before anything happens which is more than a year of game development. You really get to like and care about her. And the moment it finally happens, the bomb is dropped.

First of all asking for history with ex-es right after first time while still in bed is never a good idea. This old teacher Klaus had manipulated Haley into having sex with him when she was 15 for Christ's sake. Could have made her 18 at least. He basically raped her for 3 whole weeks before the mom stopped it. She has PTSD and has made up lies in her mind to block those. But her acts during sex reflects those. Her calling MC as Daddy, being submissive and taken control over, MC pulling her hair and her liking it... all points to a fractured mind and not a healthy relationship.

I couldn't enjoy any scenes with Haley after first sex scene. And every now and then reminding of her depressed mindset didn't help either. MC must have no problem fucking a broken person. Normally he shouldn't have sex(absolutely no submission stuff) with her until she is completely cured after months or year of treatment.

And the mom is the most disgusting person ever. Her daughter is raped and she is mad at her for making bad decisions??? She was 15 bitch!!! And she didn't do anything to Klaus. She could have easily have him fired and thrown in jail for raping an underage student. But she did no such thing. Fuck this plot.

She said she always liked her brother maybe she would never act on it like many people do IRL but she is broken now if she had to have sex with someone she don't like why she would stop herself with someone she like ?

I dated a girl who used to ask me to slap her face during sex and when i was not hiting strong as she liked it she would tell me if i didn't fuck her up good she would go out and fuck the first guy she saw (her sister hated me cuz she supposed i was hurting her sister damm im so unlucky)

I think Klaus has a part in everything but i don't think he planted the fetish on her if thats the thing she would have found another guy there would be no need to bang her brother, the thing is she say she feel safe with her brother thats why i think she like to try her stuff with him also the reason she was angry in the last update show she have real feelings for him not just lust she don't care if he sleep around as long as she is the main girl

 

[Walter Victor]

You sound more like her mom in the game. As she probably did enjoy doing things with Klaus, that means she is that way and her behavior was no way impacted by Klaus. That's why her mom hates her in the game.

Good grief!

In the first place, it is ridiculous to claim that Haley's mom hates her. Her mom cares deeply for Haley, but is concerned about her choices, and doesn't trust her judgement. Why is that? Because Mom knows about Klaus. So why didn't Mom do something about it? Because Haley told her mother the exact same thing that she told the MC at first, that IT WAS ALL HER OWN FAULT. We don't know the exact conversation that occurred between the two, but some pleading was obviously involved. The result has been a mother's deep concern about what will happen with her daughter, which is why she implores the MC to watch over Haley.

Distrust, yes; hate, complete rubbish!

Secondly, I do believe that Haley, while not wanting to do it (or continue it) with Klaus WAS aroused by the act itself. For that, I in no way place any blame or disrespect on Haley whatsoever. It was a natural response, even in such a deplorable situation, for a female with strong sexual desires. But it is one of the reasons that Haley has to go through therapy, since I believe that one of the reasons she blames herself, and has been so reluctant to talk about it, is exactly because she felt something physically while with Klaus. Haley needs to realize that in no way was she to blame for anything that happened with Klaus, and the therapist, together with the MC, can help her with that, if she will let them. Haley already has acknowledged that Klaus has hurt her; now it's time for her to shed her self-blame.

If you had actually read any of my past posts on this thread, you would not have tried to paint me as in any way thinking badly of Haley's character. Try a erecting a different strawman next time.

 

[215303j]

I don't view liking sex or having a submissive personality as being a disturbing thought for a woman in the least.

Acting submissive in the bedroom is one thing, but being so submissive that a person allows herself to be abused is something else. That's destructive behaviour and should be stopped in my opinion.

What is interesting though is that I don't really see Haley as being so submissive as a person (outside the bedroom). She certainly seems to know what she wants and is not afraid of going after it (her work and her brother) even though the consequences may be bad (the incest).

So why didn't Mom do something about it? Because Haley told her mother the exact same thing that she told the MC at first, that IT WAS ALL HER OWN FAULT. We don't know the exact conversation that occurred between the two, but some pleading was obviously involved. The result has been a mother's deep concern about what will happen with her daughter, which is why she implores the MC to watch over Haley.

Not sure about that. You may be right, but that would be pretty weak from the mother. It also seems that the mother and the father seem not at all on the same page regarding all of this. The mother seems to know much more but that in itself is not a good sign.

Secondly, I do believe that Haley, while not wanting to do it (or continue it) with Klaus WAS aroused by the act itself. For that, I in no way place any blame or disrespect on Haley whatsoever. It was a natural response, even in such a deplorable situation, for a female with strong sexual desires. But it is one of the reasons that Haley has to go through therapy, since I believe that one of the reasons she blames herself, and has been so reluctant to talk about it, is exactly because she felt something physically while with Klaus. Haley needs to realize that in no way was she to blame for anything that happened with Klaus, and the therapist, together with the MC, can help her with that, if she will let them. Haley already has acknowledged that Klaus has hurt her; now it's time for her to shed her self-blame.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

Yeah I'm not buying a 15 year old girl getting manipulated and then sexually assaulted for a period of time somehow being aroused by the whole ordeal, sorry (not really).

 

[Glooskabe]

Yeah I'm not buying a 15 year old girl getting manipulated and then sexually assaulted for a period of time somehow being aroused by the whole ordeal, sorry (not really).

It's pretty common in sexual assault cases. That's one of the reasons that victims have such a hard time coming to terms with what happened to them. They can question themselves because they experienced pleasure.

 

[Deleted member 1957140]

Good grief!

In the first place, it is ridiculous to claim that Haley's mom hates her. Her mom cares deeply for Haley, but is concerned about her choices, and doesn't trust her judgement. Why is that? Because Mom knows about Klaus. So why didn't Mom do something about it? Because Haley told her mother the exact same thing that she told the MC at first, that IT WAS ALL HER OWN FAULT. We don't know the exact conversation that occurred between the two, but some pleading was obviously involved. The result has been a mother's deep concern about what will happen with her daughter, which is why she implores the MC to watch over Haley.

Distrust, yes; hate, complete rubbish!

Secondly, I do believe that Haley, while not wanting to do it (or continue it) with Klaus WAS aroused by the act itself. For that, I in no way place any blame or disrespect on Haley whatsoever. It was a natural response, even in such a deplorable situation, for a female with strong sexual desires. But it is one of the reasons that Haley has to go through therapy, since I believe that one of the reasons she blames herself, and has been so reluctant to talk about it, is exactly because she felt something physically while with Klaus. Haley needs to realize that in no way was she to blame for anything that happened with Klaus, and the therapist, together with the MC, can help her with that, if she will let them. Haley already has acknowledged that Klaus has hurt her; now it's time for her to shed her self-blame.

If you had actually read any of my past posts on this thread, you would not have tried to paint me as in any way thinking badly of Haley's character. Try a erecting a different strawman next time.

Interesting argument on the second half which I absolutely disagree with. First of all sure Haley's mom does not exactly hate her. But to distrust her till now for something she did at the age of 15 is pretty shitty. Now about what happened with Klaus is another example of her mother being a terrible person. You just don't look the other way cause your 15 years old daughter may be is in love with an older guy who clearly took advantage of her for weeks. After that the mom took no action against Klaus; she clearly hid it from the father. She should have sent him to jail and sent Haley to therapy right at that age and supported her throughout everything from that point. That's one terrible mother right there.

Now about Haley's experience with Klaus: I find it hard to believe that she enjoyed it. IMO, again, just my opinion(twist it however you like); she definitely was scared deeply by that experience. As her mom did nothing and didn't support her emotionally after that, Haley had to make up story in her mind that the entire thing was her fault. That's how she coped. So you have to consider how someone's life may change and the person she would become carrying that reasoning inside her mind for all those years until MC pointed out that it was wrong. It took her time but she finally realized that she was taken advantage of. It was all lies in her head that she did everything with Klaus of her own volition.

Finally the main argument which is highly subjective(I support both and don't feel the need to attack those who does not see it my way) is whether Haley's submissive act in bedroom is influenced by Klaus or not. I support those who think that there's absolutely no impact of what happened to her when she was 15 on how she likes certain things. That's fine. Haley probably was always submissive and Klaus had nothing to do with it. But when I played the game, I felt that she picked up that submissive stuff from Klaus. Mainly due to the fact that how she acts outside of bedroom. I remember the Richard scenes, how Haley toyed with him and brushed him off with ease. That's one strong minded grown woman that deserves admiration. But inside bedroom she turns 180. May be it's not 100% influenced by Klaus but a majority of it is. When she is in bedroom, she becomes the weak helpless person that Klaus took advantage of all those years ago. She may have blocked, changed or forgotten most of it but a lot of things are already shaped by those events. Again just my opinion.

 

[Walter Victor]

Not sure about that. You may be right, but that would be pretty weak from the mother. It also seems that the mother and the father seem not at all on the same page regarding all of this. The mother seems to know much more but that in itself is not a good sign.

I hesitate to argue my case too strongly on this issue, since we have no idea how much Mom actually saw or found out about. Nor do we have a clue as to what was actually said between Haley and her mother to cause Mom to act (or rather not act) as she did. The only thing we know for sure was that Haley took the blame for it. Perhaps we will get some clues about what happened between Mom and Haley during the next therapy session. [I am really looking forward to that session, and hope that the developers don't let me down by having Haley joke her way through all or most of it.]

As for the mother and father not being on the same page, I suspect that is because Dad knows not one thing about what happened. Dad does think it weird that Haley and the MC still seem to need to sleep together. But I doubt that he suspects that anything sexual is going on between them. He probably just thinks they are too insecure (and weird) for their age.

 

[Walter Victor]

Yeah I'm not buying a 15 year old girl getting manipulated and then sexually assaulted for a period of time somehow being aroused by the whole ordeal, sorry (not really).

I don't believe I said that Haley was 'aroused by the whole ordeal'.That 'whole ordeal', to me, refers to the process of bullying, blackmail and forced sex, from which any mentally healthy female would recoil. What I am trying to say is that Haley's mind recoiled at what was happening to her, but her body physiologically betrayed her during the act of sex itself. I apologize if that wasn't clear from my earlier post.

 

[EZ8lt]

I hesitate to argue my case too strongly on this issue, since we have no idea how much Mom actually saw or found out about. Nor do we have a clue as to what was actually said between Haley and her mother to cause Mom to act (or rather not act) as she did. The only thing we know for sure was that Haley took the blame for it. Perhaps we will get some clues about what happened between Mom and Haley during the next therapy session. [I am really looking forward to that session, and hope that the developers don't let me down by having Haley joke her way through all or most of it.]

From my very last playthrough, during that talk on the bench with the Mom, it felt like she does blame her for having bad judgement, accepting the idea that it was Haley's fault, but she also has a suspicion of it not being the case completely, making her even more distrustful towards to her.

 

[Alfius]

I for one love the current back and forth between posters on the last couple of pages. I find myself agreeing with multiple points from different posters on different and sometimes opposing view points. All in good spirits without racing to the bottom of the pit.

Keep it up guys.

(PS Contrast this with the previous arguments calling Haley a slut for sleeping with 3 people.)