VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[Smarmint]

As I said in my own review for this piece of shit, I also think it deserves zero stars as it is a complete mess, albeit a playable one.

Did we play the same game? I had a few issues with a particular part of the story in the early mid-game, that massively blunted what would otherwise be a touching scene, but overall, Haley's Story is a very good game, with realistic characters, unlike 98% of other games on this site. I think I appreciate it most, not for the wish fulfillment fantasy stories you get with most games here, but with the realistic portrayal of flawed characters. Some of the decisions they made were not what I would have hoped, but they are not me, and in real life most people don't always make the best decisions all the time.

I guess if you were expecting it to meet a particular fetish or plot point exactly to your preference, you might be disappointed or frustrated, but that just means that the game isn't ideal for your tastes, not that it deserves a zero rating.

It has a bit of a melancholy tone throughout, so I can't say it was pleasant at all times, but sometimes less than pleasant stories are good to experience, and this is one of those cases. I laughed at times, and enjoyed the interaction between most of the characters, so while not a perfect fit for all my tastes, I am glad I played it, and it will have a positive place in my memory long after most of the games I've played are long forgotten.

I am honestly curious, if you had to distill it down to one or two points, what are the main reasons you think this game deserves zero stars?

 

[preglovr12]

I am honestly curious, if you had to distill it down to one or two points, what are the main reasons you think this game deserves zero stars?

Simply put, because good sibling banter doesn't make a whole game.

I genuinely feel that every update that came out took something away from the game, obviously starting with the rape update. What was the fucking point of that? The dev did fuck all with it. Had he, I would have given him some props for handling the situation but once it happened it seems he wanted to distance himself for it as far as possible. It was barely talked about, and not even mentioned in the endings. He either didn't trust himself in adding it in the first place or the outcry was so bad from fans that he felt he had to bury it. Either way, it ruined this game and it only got worse from there.

You brought up realism, but that's a double edged sword. Sadly, it leads to the question of "does Haley only like MC because she was raped?" Did Klaus break her mind so that her own brother started to be a valid sexual interest? You get into some really sick, twisted shit when you introduce realism into plots and characters. I understand you might not have thought about all of this, and that's fine, but I sure have and it heavily weighs on my opinions of this game. The dev not curbing any of these thoughts either points to him being ill-prepared to handle something as serious as rape, or just plain too lazy to put the work into it for it to have been a valid plot addition. Let's talk about other stuff now.

I'm not a fan of Sandra, and we're forced into a relationship with her with no player input. Sure, we can dump her later, but that's not a point I can give the game when it forced me into it in the first place. I'm not a huge Lisa fan, she's fun but she's not my type at all, and she gets her own ending over Diane who had similar "screen time" where I personally heavily preferred Diane. Much like the rape, everything seemed to move backwards, like the dev thought he made a poor choice and had to fix it by ignoring the existence of it in the first place. Alana is another character that gets completely sidelined to the point where her existence is pointless. Why introduce all these characters, have a couple sex scenes, and then dump them all back into the ether?

Here's my review as well:

Spoiler

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If none of this stuff bothered you that's fine, but it really bothered the shit out of me. As I noted in my review, would you rather eat a bad meal, or would you rather get about half way through a good one when you find an insect in it? That's why I think this is a zero star game, it used to be good then the dev ruined it with stupid decision after stupid decision.

 

[Ziltoid]

Oh, we've reached the end... damn will i miss Haley. I can only hope there will be a part 2 hahaha

Spoiler: I was really expecting

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Hope we can fix that in a pt. 2 that i really wish thad could happen!!

 

[Walter Victor]

Oh, we've reached the end... damn will i miss Haley. I can only hope there will be a part 2 hahaha

Spoiler: I was really expecting

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Hope we can fix that in a pt. 2 that i really wish thad could happen!!

You need to play any one of the other routes to get the ending you're looking for. The Sandra route is the only one where that doesn't happen. Don't ask me why!

Edit: Oh, by the way, there will be no pt. 2. The developers have gone on to a completely different game.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Simply put, because good sibling banter doesn't make a whole game.

I genuinely feel that every update that came out took something away from the game, obviously starting with the rape update. What was the fucking point of that? The dev did fuck all with it. Had he, I would have given him some props for handling the situation but once it happened it seems he wanted to distance himself for it as far as possible. It was barely talked about, and not even mentioned in the endings. He either didn't trust himself in adding it in the first place or the outcry was so bad from fans that he felt he had to bury it. Either way, it ruined this game and it only got worse from there.

You brought up realism, but that's a double edged sword. Sadly, it leads to the question of "does Haley only like MC because she was raped?" Did Klaus break her mind so that her own brother started to be a valid sexual interest? You get into some really sick, twisted shit when you introduce realism into plots and characters. I understand you might not have thought about all of this, and that's fine, but I sure have and it heavily weighs on my opinions of this game. The dev not curbing any of these thoughts either points to him being ill-prepared to handle something as serious as rape, or just plain too lazy to put the work into it for it to have been a valid plot addition. Let's talk about other stuff now.

I'm not a fan of Sandra, and we're forced into a relationship with her with no player input. Sure, we can dump her later, but that's not a point I can give the game when it forced me into it in the first place. I'm not a huge Lisa fan, she's fun but she's not my type at all, and she gets her own ending over Diane who had similar "screen time" where I personally heavily preferred Diane. Much like the rape, everything seemed to move backwards, like the dev thought he made a poor choice and had to fix it by ignoring the existence of it in the first place. Alana is another character that gets completely sidelined to the point where her existence is pointless. Why introduce all these characters, have a couple sex scenes, and then dump them all back into the ether?

Here's my review as well:

Spoiler

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If none of this stuff bothered you that's fine, but it really bothered the shit out of me. As I noted in my review, would you rather eat a bad meal, or would you rather get about half way through a good one when you find an insect in it? That's why I think this is a zero star game, it used to be good then the dev ruined it with stupid decision after stupid decision.

I agree with you with the discomfort that the issue of Haley's rape creates

because it remains an unresolved issue: either we leave it all to unidentified thugs (I know they're borrowed from another game) or even worse he is apparently forgiven, despite speculation that he may have done the same thing to his stepdaughter.

and for Haley's behavior, which after necessarily takes on a different meaning, a girl who has been raped and is having an affair with her brother (ok, we forgive that), but who calls him "daddy" (alarm bell) and enjoys being spanked (big alarm bell)... I'd say it's not so strange to feel uncomfortable....

i played the game once it was complete so i didn't feel much the eventual evolution of the story, but the issue of the rape that anyway gave depth to the story (i liked how it was received by the family, the fact that the mother basically blames Haley, while the father is in the dark or pretends to be in the dark seemed to me, although unpleasant, a realistic portrait) at a certain point was abandoned, for me clumsily.

I'm less in agreement with the issue of forced relationships, the more freedom we have as players the better, but in this case both the relationship with Sandra and not Haley seem "natural" to me, I mean Haley's naturally less so ... but it's important for the plot, otherwise it would be a different game.

 

[Ziltoid]

You need to play any one of the other routes to get the ending you're looking for. The Sandra route is the only one where that doesn't happen. Don't ask me why!

Edit: Oh, by the way, there will be no pt. 2. The developers have gone on to a completely different game.

Oh, thanks. Looks Like i'll have to play other routes now...

And yeah, i know, just wishful thinking aaha

 

[Smarmint]

Simply put, because good sibling banter doesn't make a whole game.

I genuinely feel that every update that came out took something away from the game, obviously starting with the rape update. What was the fucking point of that? The dev did fuck all with it. Had he, I would have given him some props for handling the situation but once it happened it seems he wanted to distance himself for it as far as possible. It was barely talked about, and not even mentioned in the endings. He either didn't trust himself in adding it in the first place or the outcry was so bad from fans that he felt he had to bury it. Either way, it ruined this game and it only got worse from there.

Thanks for the explanation. I am with you, mostly, on the whole teacher relationship reveal. I think Viit/Ptolemy could have handled it much better. It would have been much more in line with the mood of the story, in my opinion, for Haley to reveal that she has been in a relationship with her teacher another time. The MC did handle the situation, sort of, but I didn't find this whole plot detail very fulfilling overall. I did like how the MC helped get Haley into therapy, and made her stick with it, which seems to have helped her. Whether a porn VN is the best place for this type of story, I appreciated the realism.

I hadn't considered that her love for her brother is related to her being groomed by her teacher in high school. I don't remember if the game specifically said this, but I had the impression that Haley's interest in her brother predated her relationship with her teacher, but I could be wrong on this point.

Also, my memory isn't the best since I play so many games, so I can forget some details, but did Haley ever say or imply that she was raped, as in forced to have sex against her will, or while incapacitated? Or are you talking about statutory rape? Obviously both are crimes, and harmful to the victim, but I was under the impression that the relationship with her teacher was consensual on Haley's part. Perhaps it was implied by Haley's reticence to talk about any details.

I also agree with you about Sandra. She is way too high maintenance and neurotic for me to ever want her as a love interest, despite her cute expressions. I am not really as bothered by some in forced relationships, in principle, because the dev is telling his story how he wants to tell it, just as 95% of all the dialog in these games are "forced". I think it if as the dev offers choices where he feels he wants to explore multiple options, but I don't mind if some choices or others are forced, so to speak.

I also agree that the side characters are poorly developed. While the game is inferior, in my opinion, to Haley's Story, think of Elena in DmD? She is the ideal side character, where she is actually more interesting and appealing, to me, than D. None of the side characters in Haley's Story are given much depth, really. I didn't really like any of them. Lisa is cute, but too superficial and shallow, Dianne is also not-serious and pretty generic in my eye, so I didn't really mind her small presence. I am totally not into the sugar mommy relationship options with Adriana, nor is she at all attractive to me, so I avoided her as much as possible.

Overall, I think the dev would have been better served to make the game focus on Haley more, or pick just one or two side characters and flesh them out better, and make them a major part of the story. I guess Sandra is probably the dev's cannon LI along with Haley, but just didn't like her very much, so all her scenes were kind of meh.

I would have liked it if the dev focused even more on Haley, ignored the side characters, other than as some quick side-action, and focused even more on Haley's childhood, the issues with her parents which were not really investigated and kind of forgotten about, and delved even deeper into her history.

I guess for me, to sum it all up, I applaud the devs ability to make realistic characters, motivations, and dialog, despite some plot decisions I didn't care for. Despite all this, Haley is an enormously appealing LI, in my opinion, so that more than compensates for flatly written side characters.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Also, my memory isn't the best since I play so many games, so I can forget some details, but did Haley ever say or imply that she was raped, as in forced to have sex against her will, or while incapacitated? Or are you talking about statutory rape? Obviously both are crimes, and harmful to the victim, but I was under the impression that the relationship with her teacher was consensual on Haley's part. Perhaps it was implied by Haley's reticence to talk about any details.

do you mean by physical violence?

I would say mainly psychological violence, the professor basically used Haley's feelings of guilt for a kiss that she had given him to console him from the problems he was having with his wife (or at least that he said he had) to push her into this relationship.

As far as we know, there was never any real emotional involvement, Haley was "blackmailed" rather than seduced.

 

[Yngling]

"Like" is probably not the correct word, but I do appreciate the situation between Haley and Klaus, and generally how it was handled. It did deepen the story significantly, also in the interaction with the parents. The only thing I didn't "like" about it was how the MC settled it, namely by involving the Pupster. That was both too much Deus Ex Machina as well as out of character for the MC, who is not the type to order a professional hit on someone.

The interaction with the parents is another thing. We don't really know how much mom knew about Klaus, nor do we really know what dad knows about the MC and Haley. I think that both suspect things, but they don't really know how to handle it so they keep mostly quiet about it.

All in all, I think it is one of the most realistically written incest VN's. By adding unpleasantness from the past and familial tensions from the present, the story is a lot deeper than most VN's.

 

[preglovr12]

Also, my memory isn't the best since I play so many games, so I can forget some details, but did Haley ever say or imply that she was raped, as in forced to have sex against her will, or while incapacitated? Or are you talking about statutory rape? Obviously both are crimes, and harmful to the victim, but I was under the impression that the relationship with her teacher was consensual on Haley's part. Perhaps it was implied by Haley's reticence to talk about any details.

Both. At first she swears it was a mutual thing but over time, as she starts to open up, she admits it was against her will. I want to say it's in a scene with them in the van but I'm not certain.

 

[Smarmint]

Both. At first she swears it was a mutual thing but over time, as she starts to open up, she admits it was against her will. I want to say it's in a scene with them in the van but I'm not certain.

Yes, of course. I remember that now. That makes a lot of sense why it messed her up so badly. If it was a simple inappropriate student teacher romance while she was 16 or something, it would probably be distasteful to remember it, in Haley's case, but probably would not cause the trauma we see.

I was very, very, annoyed at the first sex scene with Haley, where I had hoped the mood would be a happy one, after something like 1 year of buildup, but to drop something like that on the MC, to turn what should have been a happy event for both of them, into a bitter moment, well, I think it was a diservice to the player.

I was irritated for a few updates, to be fair, but after the last few, I got over it and appreciated the other parts of the story. But I can understand how many would have a bad taste in their mouth over this detail, and how it was handled.

Also, I agree with Yngling about the hit on the teacher. Didn't seem in character. I guess Ptolemy wanted to advertise for Alexandra, but it didn't add to the story. I expected the MC to confront Klaus, perhaps with Haley number 2 present, or something similar.

 

[UncleFredo]

Also, I agree with Yngling about the hit on the teacher. Didn't seem in character. I guess Ptolemy wanted to advertise for Alexandra, but it didn't add to the story. I expected the MC to confront Klaus, perhaps with Haley number 2 present, or something similar.

The MC is talking with his boss. The MC is considering taking direct action. He's not interested in "confronting" Klaus, he's interested in, meeting Klaus in private without Haley being anywhere around beating him to a bloody pulp, probably a dead bloody pulp. His boss offers an alternative. His boss realizes that the MC is psyching himself up to doing something both stupid and dangerous, and offers an alternative. I'm unsure how you find this out of character.

 

[Walter Victor]

"Like" is probably not the correct word, but I do appreciate the situation between Haley and Klaus, and generally how it was handled. It did deepen the story significantly, also in the interaction with the parents. The only thing I didn't "like" about it was how the MC settled it, namely by involving the Pupster. That was both too much Deus Ex Machina as well as out of character for the MC, who is not the type to order a professional hit on someone.

You have to realize that the MC wouldn't want to do anything to Klaus that would get back to Haley. That would have added to the guilt that has been plaguing Haley for years. The 'Pupster' was a convenience for those of us who wanted Klaus eliminated. There are those who feel cheated because that 'elimination' was not graphically described in the game. I, myself, was completely able to fill in the blanks with my imagination.

My problem is with the choice to NOT involve The Pupster. Anyone who chose that option was left hanging. In that case, what happened to the other Haley? Was she left to Klaus's tender mercies? To me, that is the biggest failing of the Epilogues (and the game), to not give some decent resolution to that option. This one I find difficult to fill in the blanks. Maybe the developers did too, so just ignored it.

The interaction with the parents is another thing. We don't really know how much mom knew about Klaus, nor do we really know what dad knows about the MC and Haley. I think that both suspect things, but they don't really know how to handle it so they keep mostly quiet about it

I think we can deduce a lot about what the mother knew about Klaus. Haley tells us that the mother stopped the 'affair'. How she found out about it, though, is unknown. I guess we can use our imaginations there. The mother's entire relationship with her daughter is based on that occurrence and is portrayed throughout the game. It appears that the father was never told about it, and never figured it out.

As for the father knowing about Haley and the MC - it depends on the route you play. In every route but the Solo route, the 'beard' is successful, and neither he nor the mother suspect what is going on between them. In the Solo route, however, the father suspects early on, and becomes sure of it as the game nears its end. However, the MC forces him to realize that he would lose both of them if he ever confronted Haley and asked her to choose.

 

[Yngling]

The MC is talking with his boss. The MC is considering taking direct action. He's not interested in "confronting" Klaus, he's interested in, meeting Klaus in private without Haley being anywhere around beating him to a bloody pulp, probably a dead bloody pulp. His boss offers an alternative. His boss realizes that the MC is psyching himself up to doing something both stupid and dangerous, and offers an alternative. I'm unsure how you find this out of character.

I don't think Victor is the type to be involved with organised crime on a regular basis either.

The MC is a completely normal guy. Fresh out of college working his first office job. As regular as it comes.
Haley is a completely normal girl, who experienced something bad in the past which is also not very rare, sadly enough.

But I (another regular guy) don't know anyone who is even remotely connected to organised crime, let alone be friendly enough with a hitman so that I don't have to pay anything for this "favor".

On the other hand, completely regular guys who beat up people who wronged them (or fantasize about it) are, I think, more believable.

The Pupster was definately convenient but too much so. The MC may have had fantasies about killing Klaus but maybe wouldn't have done it out of fear of getting caught, or implicating Haley.

Also, ordering a guy killed isn't nothing for a normal person. It would definately lead to further psychological issues. Yet the MC doesn't seem to have any problem with it.

My problem is with the choice to NOT involve The Pupster. Anyone who chose that option was left hanging. In that case, what happened to the other Haley? Was she left to Klaus's tender mercies? To me, that is the biggest failing of the Epilogues (and the game), to not give some decent resolution to that option. This one I find difficult to fill in the blanks. Maybe the developers did too, so just ignored it

You are right about that....

 

[Walter Victor]

I don't think Victor is the type to be involved with organised crime on a regular basis either.

The MC is a completely normal guy. Fresh out of college working his first office job. As regular as it comes.
Haley is a completely normal girl, who experienced something bad in the past which is also not very rare, sadly enough.

But I (another regular guy) don't know anyone who is even remotely connected to organised crime, let alone be friendly enough with a hitman so that I don't have to pay anything for this "favor".

On the other hand, completely regular guys who beat up people who wronged them (or fantasize about it) are, I think, more believable.

The Pupster was definately convenient but too much so. The MC may have had fantasies about killing Klaus but maybe wouldn't have done it out of fear of getting caught, or implicating Haley.

Also, ordering a guy killed isn't nothing for a normal person. It would definately lead to further psychological issues. Yet the MC doesn't seem to have any problem with it.

The MC is a regular guy who is madly and passionately in love with his sister - maybe not so regular after all.

The MC had protected Haley all her life, except for the one time she really needed it. This had to eat into his guts. He was ready to confront Klaus, but was physically restrained by Haley. It's not as though he doesn't have balls. In the Solo route he stands up to his father, risking his father's love, and ends that drama.

Outwardly, the MC appears laconic throughout, but there seems a lot more depth to his character.

 

[felicemastronzo]

The MC is talking with his boss. The MC is considering taking direct action. He's not interested in "confronting" Klaus, he's interested in, meeting Klaus in private without Haley being anywhere around beating him to a bloody pulp, probably a dead bloody pulp. His boss offers an alternative. His boss realizes that the MC is psyching himself up to doing something both stupid and dangerous, and offers an alternative. I'm unsure how you find this out of character.

it is one thing to feel a strong rage towards someone, another thing to let this rage vent, another thing again to have him eliminated by dubious third parties.

we have all hated someone in our lives, but i don't think we have all contacted a hit man.

Let's say that the offer in itself of Victor is not very credible, ok he had a similar experience, but to make such a proposal to a boy naturally still shaken by what he has discovered is really a gamble. Victor doesn't even wait to find out how the therapy is going, he immediately proposes this shortcut, and immediately afterwards tries to withdraw it... who is the adult?

 

[UncleFredo]

it is one thing to feel a strong rage towards someone, another thing to let this rage vent, another thing again to have him eliminated by dubious third parties.

we have all hated someone in our lives, but i don't think we have all contacted a hit man.

Let's say that the offer in itself of Victor is not very credible, ok he had a similar experience, but to make such a proposal to a boy naturally still shaken by what he has discovered is really a gamble. Victor doesn't even wait to find out how the therapy is going, he immediately proposes this shortcut, and immediately afterwards tries to withdraw it... who is the adult?

First of all the MC is NOT a boy. He is a grown post collegiate, over the age of 21, who is holding down a full time professional job living apart from his parents.

Second, while is probably true that most of us have people in our past and or present whom we'd claim to hate, how many of them raped an underage member of our immediate family, got away with it, and based on our observations has done the same to others over the years? That may create a response rather more intense than hatred. Out of the broad distribution of people and their possible responses, some percentage would elect for direct intervention to correct Klaus waking away. We can debate whether or not that falls into an "adult" response, but that's not relevant to the choice to act or not.

The events in Victor's life certainly could have sensitized him to react as he did when it happened to him and his family before, generating a reaction that considered more calmly wouldn't have occurred. We're given only the slightest insight into that event in Victor's life, so we have no real basis to judge if his offer to the MC was believable, except he availed himself of the option at the time.

 

[felicemastronzo]

First of all the MC is NOT a boy. He is a grown post collegiate, over the age of 21, who is holding down a full time professional job living apart from his parents.

Second, while is probably true that most of us have people in our past and or present whom we'd claim to hate, how many of them raped an underage member of our immediate family, got away with it, and based on our observations has done the same to others over the years? That may create a response rather more intense than hatred. Out of the broad distribution of people and their possible responses, some percentage would elect for direct intervention to correct Klaus waking away. We can debate whether or not that falls into an "adult" response, but that's not relevant to the choice to act or not.

The events in Victor's life certainly could have sensitized him to react as he did when it happened to him and his family before, generating a reaction that considered more calmly wouldn't have occurred. We're given only the slightest insight into that event in Victor's life, so we have no real basis to judge if his offer to the MC was believable, except he availed himself of the option at the time.

you are right, I have oversimplified

but being an adult is not an anagraphic fact, MC is for the first time outside the family home, for the first time he is really the master of his actions. moreover, he is facing an extraordinary situation.

Victor, on the other hand, is more experienced, and has had the misfortune to find himself in a very similar situation. in fact, at the beginning, the advice he gives to MC is very mature, he prepares him for the worst and makes it clear that it cannot be him who helps Haley, but that he needs a professional, a therapist. up to that point, he is very mature.

in that moment mc knows very little about what happened to his sister, practically nothing, that's why showing him the shortcut right away is really very risky on Victor's part. Victor goes from being a positive mentor to a tempting devil.

but also narratively the whole parenthesis of the gangsters is a foreign body to the story, there is no continuity between the visits to the second Haley, Haley's self-awareness and the brutal shortcut that MC decides to take.

 

[v1900]

it is one thing to feel a strong rage towards someone, another thing to let this rage vent, another thing again to have him eliminated by dubious third parties.

we have all hated someone in our lives, but i don't think we have all contacted a hit man.

Let's say that the offer in itself of Victor is not very credible, ok he had a similar experience, but to make such a proposal to a boy naturally still shaken by what he has discovered is really a gamble. Victor doesn't even wait to find out how the therapy is going, he immediately proposes this shortcut, and immediately afterwards tries to withdraw it... who is the adult?

I know people that after going to the police and getting no justice have hired not just a hitman but entire death squads to avenge loved ones. I also know people that just take it lying down. Personally I have had the experience of having an uncle abducted and an attempted abduction on my youngest sister and can tell you that at times like that hiring mercenaries to deal with shit is not an outlandish prospect.

 

[v1900]

but also narratively the whole parenthesis of the gangsters is a foreign body to the story, there is no continuity between the visits to the second Haley, Haley's self-awareness and the brutal shortcut that MC decides to take.

Yup the whole thing just fizzles out like it was never a big deal, that too bothered me a lot.