VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[Cartageno]

This is a porn game.

I wouldn't say that. I'd call it an adult game. The difference being the importance of the story.

 

[PervySageKem]

I wouldn't say that. I'd call it an adult game. The difference being the importance of the story.

At the end of the day, it's porn. I think people tend to forget that, acting like this is some novel that must be super deep and intellectual.

It's a porn game about fucking your twin sister.

 

[Joshua Tree]

At the end of the day, it's porn. I think people tend to forget that, acting like this is some novel that must be super deep and intellectual.

It's a porn game about fucking your twin sister.

What is "Fifty Shades Of Grey" ?

If all you got out of "Haley's Story" it's about fuck your twin sister. You really lacking reading skills or did some serious skipping when it came to the story.

 

[Yngling]

At the end of the day, it's porn. I think people tend to forget that, acting like this is some novel that must be super deep and intellectual.

It's a porn game about fucking your twin sister.

Meh, whatever.

What you personally consider porn or an adult VN is meaningless.

We can have the same discussion about movies / tv series / books or whatever containing sex and nudity.

Personally I like it if devs put in the effort to create a story beyond "oh my brother has a huge dick, I must fuck him!".

 

[PervySageKem]

What is "Fifty Shades Of Grey" ?

If all you got out of "Haley's Story" it's about fuck your twin sister. You really lacking reading skills or did some serious skipping when it came to the story.

You don't need to try and insult me by barely managing to put two sentences together xD

It's just the truth, don't act like you come to this site to get your novels and scratch your philosophical itch. These games are here to provide a service, acting like they are so deep just because they have rape in them just makes you look like a rape enthusiast that needs these games to have rape.

I always find it weird when people come to these games justifying rape and defending it, it's fucking sick.

 

[PervySageKem]

Meh, whatever.

What you personally consider porn or an adult VN is meaningless.

We can have the same discussion about movies / tv series / books or whatever containing sex and nudity.

Personally I like it if devs put in the effort to create a story beyond "oh my brother has a huge dick, I must fuck him!".

Tell me something: this game as an excellent romance between two characters. That's the main thing that makes these games better than regular porn, it's the romance and the relationships. Does the rape really enhance the experience?

 

[Joshua Tree]

You don't need to try and insult me by barely managing to put two sentences together xD

It's just the truth, don't act like you come to this site to get your novels and scratch your philosophical itch. These games are here to provide a service, acting like they are so deep just because they have rape in them just makes you look like a rape enthusiast that needs these games to have rape.

I always find it weird when people come to these games justifying rape and defending it, it's fucking sick.

Way to go prove you lacking in mental capacity. Start accuse people they into rape because they like the story of this game is just going way overboard.

There is no "rape" that take place during your gameplay. You learn to know a teacher molested your sister years ago while in school. It's part of the backstory. Rape is not a choice or preference you as a player can do to characters in the game/story. If you go to the creators Patreon it says "creating ADULT themed novels".. if you want to argue what the creation is, I suggest you bring it up with the creator.

 

[Cartageno]

You don't need to try and insult me by barely managing to put two sentences together xD

It's just the truth, don't act like you come to this site to get your novels and scratch your philosophical itch. These games are here to provide a service, acting like they are so deep just because they have rape in them just makes you look like a rape enthusiast that needs these games to have rape.

I always find it weird when people come to these games justifying rape and defending it, it's fucking sick.

This has nothing to do with "justifying rape" at all - at best with "justifying rape to be included as a story element". Otherwise every crime movie or every other action game would be "justifying killing people".

And yes, as every entertainment we use it to "provide a service". However that service for many isn't the porn scenes alone. They need company. A reason to care about what is happening. That doesn't mean we have to have "deep philosophy" in it, though it wouldn't hurt, but I often want a story, characters with at least some motivation, a background to be able to insert myself into the world. "It's just porn so the story doesn't matter" may be your approach to it but certainly is not mine. Yes, I come here for the stories with spicy scenes, but just like with food, the spice alone isn't everything, there has to be a properly made meal where the spice is used.

 

[PervySageKem]

This has nothing to do with "justifying rape" at all - at best with "justifying rape to be included as a story element". Otherwise every crime movie or every other action game would be "justifying killing people".

And yes, as every entertainment we use it to "provide a service". However that service for many isn't the porn scenes alone. They need company. A reason to care about what is happening. That doesn't mean we have to have "deep philosophy" in it, though it wouldn't hurt, but I often want a story, characters with at least some motivation, a background to be able to insert myself into the world. "It's just porn so the story doesn't matter" may be your approach to it but certainly is not mine. Yes, I come here for the stories with spicy scenes, but just like with food, the spice alone isn't everything, there has to be a properly made meal where the spice is used.

That's the thing: I also enjoy the story. I choose to watch and play these games because of the relationships and because of the romance, it's not just for the sex scenes.

And once again I ask you: if you start feeling something toward a character because you are immersed in the story and the character is raped/was raped, do you enjoy the story more or less? Because I, for one, do not wish for my loved ones to be raped and I feel anguish when I am immersed in these stories and the characters I like are raped.

Tell me again: why are you dying on this hill to defend rape?

 

[Joshua Tree]

That's the thing: I also enjoy the story. I choose to watch and play these games because of the relationships and because of the romance, it's not just for the sex scenes.

And once again I ask you: if you start feeling something toward a character because you are immersed in the story and the character is raped/was raped, do you enjoy the story more or less? Because I, for one, do not wish for my loved ones to be raped and I feel anguish when I am immersed in these stories and the characters I like are raped.

Tell me again: why are you dying on this hill to defend rape?

Here is the thing, if you start to feel any emotions, empathy (whatever), for characters in a story. The creator of that story have succeed in get you immersed. Just because molestation/rape been used as a mcguffin to drive the story, it doesn't matter. The protag in the story got applied emotions and reactions to it, just as a player/reader could. There is nothing in the story that favor rape, or even give anyone with a rape fetish reason to blow a nut over it.

You start to seem just as crazy as those religious nuts that want to get porn banned because all women involved have to be victims...

 

[Cartageno]

That's the thing: I also enjoy the story. I choose to watch and play these games because of the relationships and because of the romance, it's not just for the sex scenes.

And once again I ask you: if you start feeling something toward a character because you are immersed in the story and the character is raped/was raped, do you enjoy the story more or less? Because I, for one, do not wish for my loved ones to be raped and I feel anguish when I am immersed in these stories and the characters I like are raped.

Tell me again: why are you dying on this hill to defend rape?

First of all, you seem to have missed the first part of my post. Nobody here is "defending rape". We are talking about the inclusion of a theme as a driving element in a story, not about something happening being a good thing. I am not defending murder, yet I like to read a crime story. Murder is horrible, as is rape, there's no two opinions here, and perpetrators should be hunted down and punished. However, both can work as elements in a story. As long as you do not see the difference, there is little use in talking.

That being said, crime and other background information can add motivation, it can stir emotions. Whether or not you like these emotions in a "I am entertained" way will depend on you, the emotion, the reason for the emotion, how it is presented. But the amount of beloved characters in movies, TV, books, AVNs getting it bad, being killed, mutilated, getting sick, heartbroken, and, yes, raped should show that it works as a story element. We love and care about characters, yet the authors put them into a modern retelling of the Book of Job. Is this always bad? Or can't it serve the purpose of making a story more interesting?

 

[PervySageKem]

First of all, you seem to have missed the first part of my post. Nobody here is "defending rape". We are talking about the inclusion of a theme as a driving element in a story, not about something happening being a good thing. I am not defending murder, yet I like to read a crime story. Murder is horrible, as is rape, there's no two opinions here, and perpetrators should be hunted down and punished. However, both can work as elements in a story. As long as you do not see the difference, there is little use in talking.

That being said, crime and other background information can add motivation, it can stir emotions. Whether or not you like these emotions in a "I am entertained" way will depend on you, the emotion, the reason for the emotion, how it is presented. But the amount of beloved characters in movies, TV, books, AVNs getting it bad, being killed, mutilated, getting sick, heartbroken, and, yes, raped should show that it works as a story element. We love and care about characters, yet the authors put them into a modern retelling of the Book of Job. Is this always bad? Or can't it serve the purpose of making a story more interesting?

"Is this always bad? Or can't it serve the purpose of making a story more interesting?"

In my humble opinion, and it is just an opinion, there is a time and place for everything and I really don't think these games are the place to add rape as a simple way to drive the plot forward. It brings pain to the majority of the player base, hence why in these games there is always backlash when it is added as a cheap bandaid for drama.

For instance, the anime/manga Berserk. There is a lot of rape which adds context to the savagery and brutality of the world. There is the rape of the main character, which adds context to why he has so many trust issues etc. Then there is the rape of the main love interest, which severely hurts every single person that reads it and is pointed as one of the main flaws of the story, but it still adds something to the story (it shows how the BBEG is heartless and not the same person as before).

In that show, which is long running and is intended to be deep and revolt the reader, it can be used as a plot device and it is still argued if it was too much and if it adds or removes to the story.

Haley's Story and many other AVNs add rape to advance the plot in absolutely no fashion. It is mainly a way for simple drama and to add discomfort in stories which are publicized as romances and easy-going.

I trully and absolutely believe that this game did not gain anything with the introduction of that plot-line. It turned sweet moments sour, it turned light-heartedness into somberness, it turned fun and love with regret and anger.

And while these feelings can be explored in many medium, this is a medium which I think does not have that purpose.

 

[Ayhsel]

"Is this always bad? Or can't it serve the purpose of making a story more interesting?"

In my humble opinion, and it is just an opinion, there is a time and place for everything and I really don't think these games are the place to add rape as a simple way to drive the plot forward. It brings pain to the majority of the player base, hence why in these games there is always backlash when it is added as a cheap bandaid for drama.

For instance, the anime/manga Berserk. There is a lot of rape which adds context to the savagery and brutality of the world. There is the rape of the main character, which adds context to why he has so many trust issues etc. Then there is the rape of the main love interest, which severely hurts every single person that reads it and is pointed as one of the main flaws of the story, but it still adds something to the story (it shows how the BBEG is heartless and not the same person as before).

In that show, which is long running and is intended to be deep and revolt the reader, it can be used as a plot device and it is still argued if it was too much and if it adds or removes to the story.

Haley's Story and many other AVNs add rape to advance the plot in absolutely no fashion. It is mainly a way for simple drama and to add discomfort in stories which are publicized as romances and easy-going.

I trully and absolutely believe that this game did not gain anything with the introduction of that plot-line. It turned sweet moments sour, it turned light-heartedness into somberness, it turned fun and love with regret and anger.

And while these feelings can be explored in many medium, this is a medium which I think does not have that purpose.

The thing is that you are missing the point of what a story is. Story is about character development and conflict. No conflict, no story.

Rape or any other disgusting, terrible thing can be as good and bad as anything else in a story. What matter is how it is implemented.

Whether you feel attached or not to the characters is a different issue. In fact, I think that feeling attached to fictional character speaks well about a novel. But that does not imply only happy things should happen to them. In fact, on the contrary, many times it is actually unhappy things that makes us relate to a character.

I do believe, however, that the whole Klaus was not planned and was used simply to keep the story going after the main conflict was resolved. This is a problem of pure love stories that have no conflict once you get the girl. But just because something is ad hoc does not mean it devalues the product by itself. It just mean that it is there to keep the story going. The element itself can become better than the actual story. I don't believe it was the case here and in fact I think that the whole Klaus thing was bad implemented and bad resolved, but that is a different issue. The point is that stories are not just what some reader believe they are.

Also, you are assuming there cannot be any genre shift, when many great stories work precisely because a setting turns into something different. A comedy can become a drama or a sci fiction a fantasy world, if done right.

And you are extremely wrong that "these is just porn so the authors should only give us happy moments". So wrong that if you don't see it, I cannot explain it.

 

[Cartageno]

"Is this always bad? Or can't it serve the purpose of making a story more interesting?"

In my humble opinion, and it is just an opinion, there is a time and place for everything and I really don't think these games are the place to add rape as a simple way to drive the plot forward. It brings pain to the majority of the player base, hence why in these games there is always backlash when it is added as a cheap bandaid for drama.

For instance, the anime/manga Berserk. There is a lot of rape which adds context to the savagery and brutality of the world. There is the rape of the main character, which adds context to why he has so many trust issues etc. Then there is the rape of the main love interest, which severely hurts every single person that reads it and is pointed as one of the main flaws of the story, but it still adds something to the story (it shows how the BBEG is heartless and not the same person as before).

In that show, which is long running and is intended to be deep and revolt the reader, it can be used as a plot device and it is still argued if it was too much and if it adds or removes to the story.

Haley's Story and many other AVNs add rape to advance the plot in absolutely no fashion. It is mainly a way for simple drama and to add discomfort in stories which are publicized as romances and easy-going.

I trully and absolutely believe that this game did not gain anything with the introduction of that plot-line. It turned sweet moments sour, it turned light-heartedness into somberness, it turned fun and love with regret and anger.

And while these feelings can be explored in many medium, this is a medium which I think does not have that purpose.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I am speaking more generally here than you maybe, but I do not think that it cannot have a place in a game as a story element. I am also not convinced that "the majority of the player base" disapproves - disapproval is always louder than approval. Certainly quite a few, but "the majority"? For the record: I am also not convinced that the majority approves.

However, if a certain option is viable for a game, the question about majorities and minorities should only concern the dev and how far they want to accustom the real or perceived majority. If every game only did what the majority wanted, all games with furry, futa, NTR, gay, sandbox and without incest, virgin, milf could leave this platform. We'd get the same game over and over again. Experimenting with new ideas would be down the drain because the majority prefers what they know.

 

[PervySageKem]

The thing is that you are missing the point of what a story is. Story is about character development and conflict. No conflict, no story.

Rape or any other disgusting, terrible thing can be as good and bad as anything else in a story. What matter is how it is implemented.

Whether you feel attached or not to the characters is a different issue. In fact, I think that feeling attached to fictional character speaks well about a novel. But that does not imply only happy things should happen to them. In fact, on the contrary, many times it is actually unhappy things that makes us relate to a character.

I do believe, however, that the whole Klaus was not planned and was used simply to keep the story going after the main conflict was resolved. This is a problem of pure love stories that have no conflict once you get the girl. But just because something is ad hoc does not mean it devalues the product by itself. It just mean that it is there to keep the story going. The element itself can become better than the actual story. I don't believe it was the case here and in fact I think that the whole Klaus thing was bad implemented and bad resolved, that that is a different issue. The point is that stories are not just what some reader believe they are.

Also, you are assuming there cannot be any genre shift, when many great stories work precisely because a setting turns into something different. A comedy can become a drama or a sci fiction a fantasy world, if done right.

And you are extremely wrong that "these is just porn so the authors should only give us happy moments". So wrong that if you don't see it, I cannot explain it.

I think people miss understood what I meant when I said "this is just porn". You need to read the context behind: people were over-analizing the game, saying things that "one third of woman have been molested so it should be shown", as if these games need to be ultra realistic. It's just a porn game, you don't need to dive super deep into statistics and go all super defense attorney to defend decisions.

Since we aren't going to stop speaking in circles I'm going to mute this thread, it's becoming tiresome. I just stated my opinion and will remain believing there is no need for this kind of drama on these games.

Regarding the whole "shift genre": again, these are simple stories, not Shakesperean dramas. Let's not go whole metaphysical, in a pornographic game it is pretty important to have the stories well tagged for content so people don't consume unwanted content and, once tagged, try your best to stick with it.

Nobody is trying to win an Oscar here, let's just create games and stories that the people that search and opt for satisfies them.

 

[Ayhsel]

I think people miss understood what I meant when I said "this is just porn". You need to read the context behind: people were over-analizing the game, saying things that "one third of woman have been molested so it should be shown", as if these games need to be ultra realistic. It's just a porn game, you don't need to dive super deep into statistics and go all super defense attorney to defend decisions.

Since we aren't going to stop speaking in circles I'm going to mute this thread, it's becoming tiresome. I just stated my opinion and will remain believing there is no need for this kind of drama on these games.

Regarding the whole "shift genre": again, these are simple stories, not Shakesperean dramas. Let's not go whole metaphysical, in a pornographic game it is pretty important to have the stories well tagged for content so people don't consume unwanted content and, once tagged, try your best to stick with it.

Nobody is trying to win an Oscar here, let's just create games and stories that the people that search and opt for satisfies them.

You clearly seem to be missing the point of what I am trying to say and keep using your preconceptions to how thing should be valued as if they are general enough.

That is not the case and in fact I could explain you how logic contradicts your statements that adults novels are ultimately porn so they are simple stories. I could even explain with math how your statement is actually a tautology the way you are presenting it.

I do believe Haley's story is one, though. But that is a different matter. My point was general.

 

[Machete]

Is there any way to have haley out out your way in this game?

 

[Ayhsel]

Is there any way to have haley out out your way in this game?

No. The whole story revolves around her. You can have endings with Haley + someone else, but no way to get rid of her.

 

[Machete]

No. The whole story revolves around her. You can have endings with Haley + someone else, but no way to get rid of her.

D'oh!

 

[PervySageKem]

You clearly seem to be missing the point of what I am trying to say and keep using your preconceptions to how thing should be valued as if they are general enough.

That is not the case and in fact I could explain you how logic contradicts your statements that adults novels are ultimately porn so they are simple stories. I could even explain with math how your statement is actually a tautology the way you are presenting it.

I do believe Haley's story is one, though. But that is a different matter. My point was general.

Let me try to simplify my point and philosophy on this. This is just my opinion and while in other posts it might seem I was making a claim that "this is how things should be and everyone should agree", I merely did not preface every single one of my opinionswith "In my opinion" in order to not have to write "in my opinion" before every sentence I make.

I am only specifiying this since there have been several implications in your point that my preconceptions are what everyone should abide by.

I shall try once again to state my opinion:

In my opinion, anyone can write whatever they want and write it however they want to write it. I have the liberty to state my opinion as long as I do not insult the author or judge how he is as a person. I can only state what are my opinions of the piece of content he produced. The reasons I do so are merely for a small hope that others might agree or that someone might read my opinion and think "if I make a game, I shall take this opinion into consideration".

That being said, it is my opinion that not all pieces of media are the same. Everything is dependent on the presentation and in the management of expectations. It is, once again, just my opinion that Adult VNs like the ones in this platform are presented in different ways to an aspiring reader. Some present themselves as light-hearted romances, some are mindless fuckfests, other go deep into human psycology and the nature of our desires.

It is my opinion that every such story is correctly advertised and tagged in order for everyone to know what they are getting into. Synopsis should be longer than they are, in my opinion, and there should be a well-painted picture of what something is about. There is art in writting synopsis, the best authors have the synopsis in the back cover painting a perfect picture of what is in store for the reader.

For example: if the synopsis for this game including something like "... but you there is more to Haley's past then what she leads you to believe, and uncovering such past will lead you to a path of fighting your inner demons and help grow closer with your sister", and a "Rape Themes" tag, I would be perfectly fine. I would be even more fine if the situation was actually addressed and not just ignored to be solved off-camera.

It is my opinion that in stories that present and advertise themselves in simple terms and do not tag certain content in them, should try not to include content that contradicts with the theme that you set for your own story, especially if it completely changes the tone that you wrote for your story in it's first half.