QQP_Purple

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Dec 11, 2020
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You skipped over the part where Maria has people on the outside that would do anything and everything,
No I did not. I just pointed out that the people of the hospital can't know that. And even if they did they couldn't care less because their policies are made to be one size fits all for every single elf they caught this way. And they must have caught quite a few. If anything I'd bet that the entire program is a there to trap them.

The response the hospital had is in no way reasonable because, again, they risked damaging their prize and wasting the effort. If she then ends up getting no buyers specifically because the overkill response injured her beyond any recognizable value, she is then useless to them and she might as well have been treated as if she were human in the first place. It would get them the same value with less effort and less expense.
Except that rapid application of extreme force is the best way to stun and subdue a subject with minimal actual harm. At least physical. It traumatizes them but nobody cares about that. The slower you move and the less overwhelming force you apply the greater the chance that the victim will get the time needed to react and thus force an altercation where that force actually has to be used.

That's why SWAT and counterterror breaching tactics are what they are.
 

alex2011

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Feb 28, 2017
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No I did not. I just pointed out that the people of the hospital can't know that. And even if they did they couldn't care less because their policies are made to be one size fits all for every single elf they caught this way. And they must have caught quite a few. If anything I'd bet that the entire program is a there to trap them.


Except that rapid application of extreme force is the best way to stun and subdue a subject with minimal actual harm. At least physical. It traumatizes them but nobody cares about that. The slower you move and the less overwhelming force you apply the greater the chance that the victim will get the time needed to react and thus force an altercation where that force actually has to be used.

That's why SWAT and counterterror breaching tactics are what they are.
They don't have to know it, only she does. Actually, it's better that the people at the hospital don't know that or they could set a trap for any potential rescue attempt. Also, I'm not so sure on that last part, the entire purpose of going into the hospital was a DNA test for finding who or what, certain family, was to the one being tested. Considering that the purposes of this kind of testing are pretty widespread, it would be difficult to use it as an elf trap because they may not be under a circumstance in specific cases where they would be testing for what her heritage consists of, only who she came from. Those aren't the same thing and do require some slightly different methods that may not uncover elven DNA or may at least be significantly less effective. Those tests are expensive on the lab end, so it would not be very productive to use that as a trap because they would be spending more money than they are getting. Also, not every elf has support behind them like Maria does, so the DNA trap would not be able to account for that and they would risk potential 'jail' breaks on a regular basis, especially if Nia isn't the only active violent resistance.

Rapid application of extreme force may be the best way to stun a target, but it is also a great way to cause counterproductive damage to said target when the extreme force used includes heavy equipment like that security bot that could go too far and permanently injure the subject or even kill them. Remember, bots don't know how to hold back, they only know how to follow orders, so it was an extreme risk to take when they want her alive and as able-bodied as possible. They would have been better off with an actual SWAT-like QRF instead. Far less chance of counterproductive mishaps when a sentient being, likely human with the whole racist policy thing, is involved. Also, take into account the shock that would come with Maria finding out she's enough of an elf to be enslaved and you have her stunned mentally. That would be one hell of a shocker to the girl and she would still be processing that nuclear bombshell by the time the QRF arrived and had her in custody, meaning no resistance. The MC might have still been a problem in that regard, though, considering he's not the one who has been living with an unknown factor all this time.
 

VeggieNeptunia

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There are 3 or 4 games that I started play because the lewd scenes and now i play more for the story. This game has some great Arcs, The fist part of Lin story, Ash and Android (all).
With original art this would be one of best VN in steam.
 
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Jjay08

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They don't have to know it, only she does. Actually, it's better that the people at the hospital don't know that or they could set a trap for any potential rescue attempt. Also, I'm not so sure on that last part, the entire purpose of going into the hospital was a DNA test for finding who or what, certain family, was to the one being tested. Considering that the purposes of this kind of testing are pretty widespread, it would be difficult to use it as an elf trap because they may not be under a circumstance in specific cases where they would be testing for what her heritage consists of, only who she came from. Those aren't the same thing and do require some slightly different methods that may not uncover elven DNA or may at least be significantly less effective. Those tests are expensive on the lab end, so it would not be very productive to use that as a trap because they would be spending more money than they are getting. Also, not every elf has support behind them like Maria does, so the DNA trap would not be able to account for that and they would risk potential 'jail' breaks on a regular basis, especially if Nia isn't the only active violent resistance.

Rapid application of extreme force may be the best way to stun a target, but it is also a great way to cause counterproductive damage to said target when the extreme force used includes heavy equipment like that security bot that could go too far and permanently injure the subject or even kill them. Remember, bots don't know how to hold back, they only know how to follow orders, so it was an extreme risk to take when they want her alive and as able-bodied as possible. They would have been better off with an actual SWAT-like QRF instead. Far less chance of counterproductive mishaps when a sentient being, likely human with the whole racist policy thing, is involved. Also, take into account the shock that would come with Maria finding out she's enough of an elf to be enslaved and you have her stunned mentally. That would be one hell of a shocker to the girl and she would still be processing that nuclear bombshell by the time the QRF arrived and had her in custody, meaning no resistance. The MC might have still been a problem in that regard, though, considering he's not the one who has been living with an unknown factor all this time.
It's definitely not an elf trap hospital, if you look back at the scene when they are in there, you'll see a lot of anti cross breeding posters and such. One look around there and if you think there is a chance that you are half elf you'd probably get your ass out of there.
 
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alex2011

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It's definitely not an elf trap hospital, if you look back at the scene when they are in there, you'll see a lot of anti cross breeding posters and such. One look around there and if you think there is a chance that you are half elf you'd probably get your ass out of there.
Definitely not, they don't have the resources to pull that on a regular basis, and you're right, a hospital used as a trap wouldn't be advertising it with all those posters that scream anti-elf bias. If I was her and I suspected a trap, I would be out of there before I ever even got out of the lobby. I hadn't even considered the dead giveaway to their bias against her kind when I was making my own argument against the idea of the test being a trap. I'll bet they weren't even prepared to handle a fugitive elf right off of a DNA test like that.
 

Jjay08

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Definitely not, they don't have the resources to pull that on a regular basis, and you're right, a hospital used as a trap wouldn't be advertising it with all those posters that scream anti-elf bias. If I was her and I suspected a trap, I would be out of there before I ever even got out of the lobby. I hadn't even considered the dead giveaway to their bias against her kind when I was making my own argument against the idea of the test being a trap. I'll bet they weren't even prepared to handle a fugitive elf right off of a DNA test like that.
They got police bots quickly enough, not hard to leave somebody in a hospital room. I'd imagine most people wouldn't blink an eye at a 10 minute wait, plenty of time to call anybody you need to, to get a newly discovered elf.
 

QQP_Purple

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Dec 11, 2020
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They don't have to know it, only she does. Actually, it's better that the people at the hospital don't know that or they could set a trap for any potential rescue attempt. Also, I'm not so sure on that last part, the entire purpose of going into the hospital was a DNA test for finding who or what, certain family, was to the one being tested. Considering that the purposes of this kind of testing are pretty widespread, it would be difficult to use it as an elf trap because they may not be under a circumstance in specific cases where they would be testing for what her heritage consists of, only who she came from. Those aren't the same thing and do require some slightly different methods that may not uncover elven DNA or may at least be significantly less effective. Those tests are expensive on the lab end, so it would not be very productive to use that as a trap because they would be spending more money than they are getting.
I would be curious as to where you get your conclusions from. Because the data we have does not support any of it. For a start we have absolutely no hard data what the test entails other than that it requires a blood sample.

The only thing we can do is take an educated guess based off what we do know. And that is two things:
1. Elves and humans can interbreed which implies that rather than being separate species altogether they are in fact subspecies of the same greater species. Kind of like lions and tigers, horses and donkeys etc. And DNA testing can definitively tell you that sort of information without extra cost.

2. Maria keeps talking about it as if it was going to tell her the actual identity of her birth parents. So it's not just the sort of test that's popular now a days where it tells you what percentage of your ancestors were viking or something. It seems to be an actual paternity/maternity test. Possibly against a DNA database of some sort?? We can't be sure. But we know she believes it is going to tell her their exact identities. And that sort of test would definitively discover ones subspecies. Hell, even the generic % of your ancestors sort of test would.

Also, not every elf has support behind them like Maria does, so the DNA trap would not be able to account for that and they would risk potential 'jail' breaks on a regular basis, especially if Nia isn't the only active violent resistance.
Of course they could and would have to count on resistance every single time. Or do you think anyone would be crazy enough to willingly and peacefully submit to being enslaved? Well, some might. But you can't count on that being the case and make your policies and procedures around that. That would be simply irresponsible toward the safety and security of everyone in the hospital if nothing else.

Rapid application of extreme force may be the best way to stun a target, but it is also a great way to cause counterproductive damage to said target when the extreme force used includes heavy equipment like that security bot that could go too far and permanently injure the subject or even kill them.
Quite the contrary. The chances of injury or death rise exponentially with the amount of time the victim has to resist. If you want to keep everyone alive the best thing to do is to use shock and surprise to overwhelm them before they ever get the chance to do something which forces you to apply force any further. And that is exactly the sort of thing we see in that scene. The only thing missing was a flashbang.

Remember, bots don't know how to hold back, they only know how to follow orders, so it was an extreme risk to take when they want her alive and as able-bodied as possible. They would have been better off with an actual SWAT-like QRF instead.
And where do you get that from? If anything we have evidence of the exact opposite both in that scene and in others. Consider the following:
1. Neither the MC nor Maria were injured in that scene. Even though it involved seemingly military grade robots performing a textbook assault operation.

2. The setting uses police robots. If these really were as clumsy as you think do you think people would stand for them? Nobody wants his streets patrolled by ED-209.

3. The setting has androids that are delicate enough in their behavior to be useful in sex. This again implies a high degree of sophistication.

etc. Bottom line is that just because it's not a human level AI in those things that does not mean they are the dumb machines we have today. Quite the contrary they seem to be in that sweet spot where they can operate autonomously and quite well but aren't sapient enough to count as slavery. Which makes the actual slavery all the more pointless and evil.

Far less chance of counterproductive mishaps when a sentient being, likely human with the whole racist policy thing, is involved. Also, take into account the shock that would come with Maria finding out she's enough of an elf to be enslaved and you have her stunned mentally. That would be one hell of a shocker to the girl and she would still be processing that nuclear bombshell by the time the QRF arrived and had her in custody, meaning no resistance. The MC might have still been a problem in that regard, though, considering he's not the one who has been living with an unknown factor all this time.
You are counting on the best case scenario and working off the particular scene as opposed to the general rule. Neither of which are smart assumptions to make. What ever procedure they use has to work equally well for a 5 year old girl and a 30 year old athletic male with a military background that came in with a gun. The people setting these procedures up can't know in advance who is going to walk into their trap after all.

They got police bots quickly enough, not hard to leave somebody in a hospital room. I'd imagine most people wouldn't blink an eye at a 10 minute wait, plenty of time to call anybody you need to, to get a newly discovered elf.
I live in an European Socialist country. And even I consider that short of a time span for a police response to be laughably impossible unless there is a police station literally across the street from the hospital.
 
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alex2011

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Feb 28, 2017
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They got police bots quickly enough, not hard to leave somebody in a hospital room. I'd imagine most people wouldn't blink an eye at a 10 minute wait, plenty of time to call anybody you need to, to get a newly discovered elf.
That kind of resource deployment takes too much time to not seem fishy, the elf in question might start getting suspicious, especially with all the anti-elf posters.

I would be curious as to where you get your conclusions from. Because the data we have does not support any of it. For a start we have absolutely no hard data what the test entails other than that it requires a blood sample.

The only thing we can do is take an educated guess based off what we do know. And that is two things:
1. Elves and humans can interbreed which implies that rather than being separate species altogether they are in fact subspecies of the same greater species. Kind of like lions and tigers, horses and donkeys etc. And DNA testing can definitively tell you that sort of information without extra cost.

2. Maria keeps talking about it as if it was going to tell her the actual identity of her birth parents. So it's not just the sort of test that's popular now a days where it tells you what percentage of your ancestors were viking or something. It seems to be an actual paternity/maternity test. Possibly against a DNA database of some sort?? We can't be sure. But we know she believes it is going to tell her their exact identities. And that sort of test would definitively discover ones subspecies. Hell, even the generic % of your ancestors sort of test would.


Of course they could and would have to count on resistance every single time. Or do you think anyone would be crazy enough to willingly and peacefully submit to being enslaved? Well, some might. But you can't count on that being the case and make your policies and procedures around that. That would be simply irresponsible toward the safety and security of everyone in the hospital if nothing else.


Quite the contrary. The chances of injury or death rise exponentially with the amount of time the victim has to resist. If you want to keep everyone alive the best thing to do is to use shock and surprise to overwhelm them before they ever get the chance to do something which forces you to apply force any further. And that is exactly the sort of thing we see in that scene. The only thing missing was a flashbang.


And where do you get that from? If anything we have evidence of the exact opposite both in that scene and in others. Consider the following:
1. Neither the MC nor Maria were injured in that scene. Even though it involved seemingly military grade robots performing a textbook assault operation.

2. The setting uses police robots. If these really were as clumsy as you think do you think people would stand for them? Nobody wants his streets patrolled by ED-209.

3. The setting has androids that are delicate enough in their behavior to be useful in sex. This again implies a high degree of sophistication.

etc. Bottom line is that just because it's not a human level AI in those things that does not mean they are the dumb machines we have today. Quite the contrary they seem to be in that sweet spot where they can operate autonomously and quite well but aren't sapient enough to count as slavery. Which makes the actual slavery all the more pointless and evil.


You are counting on the best case scenario and working off the particular scene as opposed to the general rule. Neither of which are smart assumptions to make. What ever procedure they use has to work equally well for a 5 year old girl and a 30 year old athletic male with a military background that came in with a gun. The people setting these procedures up can't know in advance who is going to walk into their trap after all.


I live in an European Socialist country. And even I consider that short of a time span for a police response to be laughably impossible unless there is a police station literally across the street from the hospital.
The purpose was to find a familial link to Maria, so it would not be looking at what she is, only who she is related to, it's your typical more extensive version of the DNA test from websites like Ancestry.com in the real world, which looks at whose DNA yours originated from as far back as you request or as far back as records allow if there was no point to stop at specified. Tests like that look at the traces of your parents' DNA and trace it back as far as you asked for the testers to look. That said, the part of your DNA that defines who you are related to, meaning your ancestors, and the part that defines what you are, your species, are not the same. They would have to deliberately be looking at an entirely different part of Maria's genetic code to get a direct result and looking at her ancestors to find that trace of elven DNA would only work if the ancestor who is an elf was within the range she specifically asked to look into. This makes the DNA trap only useful as long as either the elf has an elven relative within the parameters they asked to look into. That's A LOT of money and other resources to waste on an uncertainty.

Nearly all portrayals of elves have been capable of interbreeding, this is why the half elf exists. Actually, most humanoid fantasy races have been portrayed this way pretty consistently and another one, Orcs, are often portrayed, especially in Japanese media that uses them, as needing other humanoid species to breed at all, but that does not make them a subspecies. Unfortunately, we cannot rely on real world breeding compatibility logic with a fantasy race.

Your second point in the first section is correct, the types of tests that are popular now only go as far as telling you nationalities and MAYBE gives you search results on records for specific family in each country if records exist. These tests and an actual test to determine paternity/maternity aren't actually that different. They look at entirely different sections of the genetic code and the latter is far more accurate and extensive because, put simply, it uses a fluid with much better traces to work with, blood, whereas the former only uses saliva, which is significantly less accurate, so much so that it would NOT be a good idea to use these lesser tests as a means to trap the elves because the test could very easily throw up a result that is either inaccurately shown as enough to enslave or inaccurately show that the elf does not have enough elven heritage because, remember, the law only allows for an elf at or above a certain level of elven heritage, which is why Ashley is safe. The only test accurate enough would be the hospital level blood tests and those get very expensive to run very quickly, so they are infeasible to do on a regular basis as a trap using them would require.

No, they shouldn't have just counted on surrender, either. That's too far in the opposite direction. They could have the force options reserved for the ones who resist. If the target doesn't come quietly, send in the bot because there is no way to get them without risking damage that would lower their value. The bot did not have to be the primary response nor did I mean or say it should not have been used at all from an in universe point of view. It could have been on standby in case she resisted and could have been called in at that point. It was right there outside the room, so there is no time component like there would be if the bot had to be called in from across the facility or even from outside.

The chances of injury rise if the target resists without a rapid response, but the reverse is also true. A rapid response team deployed on a non-resisting target is more likely to injure said target. Shock and surprise are actually more likely to begin resistance in an otherwise compliant target and with this completely avoidable resistance caused by the deployment of this response comes the rising potential for injury and a resulting decreased value. This happens all the time with cases of police arrests in my area, a guy gets pulled over and, when the officer goes to cuff him as part of procedure to make sure the guy doesn't run even if the guy isn't going into jail, he starts flailing and all sorts of other movement to make things difficult because, as far as he is aware, he has done nothing to warrant cuffs. This has resulted in injuries and even deaths in my area that were completely avoidable. A flashbang would have helped subdue any attempt at resistance before it began and, in fact, would have given the hospital the time it needed without the use of the bot, all they would need is something to secure Maria and the MC with, like cuffs or zipties like cops use on younger offenders.

On your last three numbered points. They didn't get injured because they were lucky not to be, it was pure chance. Just because something doesn't happen does not mean it cannot happen. It is an uncertainty that should have been accounted for by hospital staff that could have cost them their prize. The bots don't have to be clumsy, like I said, they don't know how to hold back. By following orders with no regard for keeping the target intact, they could have caused injury that was beyond what the hospital staff found acceptable, which, for a slaver, should be anything that could cause a significant drop in value like permanent injuries or injuries that will scar the slave and decrease the appearance aspect of their value. Sex bots and bots used for combat and policing functions, including security, are very different. You won't see the same delicacy in a security bot as you will a sex bot. Sex bots are delicate because their purpose is to induce pleasure in clients. Security bots are meant for securing facilities, which does not normally need the kind of delicacy a sex bot is capable of, but this situation would require some delicacy to avoid mishaps. Hell, a sex bot specifically would have made a better choice for apprehending a slave. At least they know how to be delicate enough not to hurt someone.

The shock stunning the elf in question is not just Maria, that would be the majority of cases. Sure, there are some that would shake it off quicker and some would resist it entirely. That's where plan B comes in. IF they actually put up a fight, sick the bot on them, they earned it.

I do have to agree on the response time thing, the minimum here is 15 minutes and that's assuming a police station is nearby, but not in walking distance. Some places here can take at least an hour because they are so spread out.
 
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QQP_Purple

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Dec 11, 2020
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If you are willing to discard real life rules of biological taxonomy than there really isn't anything left to discuss because you can pretty much make things up as we go along. Not that you haven't been doing that already for pages now. I repeatedly presented examples and evidence and all you can do is disagree without providing any reasonable counterexample or evidence to support your claims.

At this point I feel that the conversation has become pointless and unproductive on account of your refusal to follow the basic rules of one and thus have to terminate my participation in it.
 
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Jjay08

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That kind of resource deployment takes too much time to not seem fishy, the elf in question might start getting suspicious, especially with all the anti-elf posters.


I do have to agree on the response time thing, the minimum here is 15 minutes and that's assuming a police station is nearby, but not in walking distance. Some places here can take at least an hour because they are so spread out.
[/QUOTE]
She doesn't know shes an elf tho...She'll just sit there happily with the mc. And I just pulled 10 minutes out of my ass, she could have waited a whole half hour, again with no suspicion. Between Ellen and Ashley, she could think that elf ancestry isn't that uncommon and not even think about it.

Plus I think the two of you are putting to much thought into whatever your talking about up there. tldr whatever that is.
 

c3p0

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Nov 20, 2017
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Harem Hotel v0.13 began development on May 10th 2021, and has been estimated to release during mid to late July. This estimation has not changed.
I demand for the unchanged release schedule one lend hand holding picture with Lin.:ROFLMAO:
 

Knight 001

Newbie
May 17, 2021
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Hey !
Great game, I really enjoyed playing this update.
Last time I played it, it must have been at least one or two years ago, I don't remember the version it was, it ended with Lin's trip to the High Elves Island with Nia and Sylvia, but the event was not finished, it stopped halfway when they were still going.
I like this new first meeting with Cornwall more than the event it was before.
I've enjoyed everyone's story so far, if I had to pick favorites the girl I like more would be Ashley even if I had a really different opinion of her at the start of the game, I really hope to see her not dyed nor styled hair again, she was adorable.
Everyone's story is well-written and interesting, there's no one I don't like.
Oh and I hope there will also be some more content for the Sanctuary's Elves's Love Routes.

Good luck with everything and keep up the good work o/ :)
 
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Mathesar

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Mar 20, 2018
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Between Ellen and Ashley, she could think that elf ancestry isn't that uncommon and not even think about it.
Elven ancestry is pretty common, by my understanding. And Maria's eyes aren't as pronounced as Ashley's so it's a reasonable assumption that Maria's elven ancestry is more distant than Ash's.

As for how the police got there so fast, it could be that they just keep a patrol near the hospital as part of their routine procedure for whatever reason. They were all robots so they might even be posted there permanently. Alternatively, given how zealous she was, the nurse may have called them over preemptively when she saw Maria's eyes and had her arrested when she had confirmation.
 

GraveXMachina

Active Member
Jun 9, 2020
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#Justice4Maria!!

Reject Humanity!!
Release the Android!!
Become Skynet!!

Anyway, I'm curious...can a human receive a blood transfusion from an elf?
If so, how would this effect a DNA test?
 

Mmushy

Active Member
May 5, 2020
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I am rather surprised by the reaction over Maria. Rather I should say I'm surprised people are shocked

Unfortunately this shit happens way too much IRL. It happened in the past and us still happening now.
Eugenics theory, race, religion. etc.
Where I am now, the country is coming face to face with it recent history of cultural genocide (residential schools).
We see in in the mid east. In just the past 30years we saw it in the Balkans, in central Africa, South Africa. Cambodia, plus many more.
This shit is still going on. Many will not see it and many will deny it because they are not the targeted ones but it's still happening. Maybe not a blatant as the story but it's there.
I applaud Runey for having writing this. If through this game he can open some eyes, then he has done a service to society.
 
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