VN Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.18.2] [Runey]

[Demonius]

*blatant hint to drop the arguement*
So, on a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate each characters breasts?

i rate them all a 10 because they all fit perfectly for the girl they are on

 

[JoePlant]

*blatant hint to drop the arguement*
So, on a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate each characters breasts?

Unable to rate them properly without "pressure related firmness testing" data.

 

[Dringar]

Unable to rate them properly without "pressure related firmness testing" data.

Kali's are the breast and I will accept no alternatives in this matter.
Pun intended.

 

[Runey]

Runey and I discussed this fairly recently. To me, "half-elf" means only one human parent and one elven parent, whether they be common elf, dark elf, desert elf or whatever. Runey, however, seems to consider "half elf" to be a colloquial shorthand for "half common elf" specifically. By his definition, Maria isn't a "half elf", she's a "half dark elf", which he regards as being noticeably different.
But, to the current topic, yes, I meant half common elf.

When I say half elf, it means half human, and half any elf. Those with drow DNA, regardless of the percentage, are known as Drowkin.

 

[alex2011]

Yes, some know better, some don't, but they don't care, that is exactly my point. They only care about how it affects them in the here and now. Short term gain, outweighs any long term benefits. We see it all over the place. Their greed is killing us.

Again, this loss of longevity doesn't really affect them, as they will be dead long before that would matter. When talking about the common elves, Lin is about 300, which is the equivalent of 20ish of a human, meaning her natural lifespan would be 4-5 times that. Half of that for the half elf would still be 6-800 years.

You keep saying that the death rate is higher, but we have no evidence of that other than with the free elves, mostly due to being captured, and not being able to live that way. You can't raise a thriving society when you have to live in hiding and on the run. Unless I am forgetting something (very possible), I don't remember anything to show their population is declining.

Even if they are heading for extinction due to low birthrates, this is a long term problem, and we have shown that the people don't care about things that far into the future. Even if they shorten the elves' lives by 50-75% they still out live us by several generations.

--------------​

As for Kali, from what I remember, his plan is to start giving her power once she finishes school, and that will increase as she shows that she can handle it. I also would say that the MC could, at least in theory, be a possible figurehead, to help make decisions, leaving her to do what she loves (she has stated that she hates the business part of it). Better to see her grow into it, but she always has him there for support.

That said, even if she leaves running the company to the board, and just focuses on making things, living off of her stocks and other earnings, she will have more than enough to help fund a political campaign, we have seen similar examples in real life. I could give a long list, but that would get us too far into real world politics.

Yes, and a death because the elf was treated so poorly she couldn't survive would be in the short term. Like I said, we aren't talking death from built up issues, we're talking things that can take only a few years, not a few hundred, at most to kill.

The loss of longevity is but a secondary issue that affects only the long term unless it is reduced below a certain threshold, a threshold which is what I am referring to. If conditions are bad enough, it won't take all that long to start losing elf slaves.

I'm not saying the death rate actually is higher, what I'm saying is that, if this poor treatment continues, it will be and it won't take that long to get there.

The birth rate decline, which is not confirmed, would normally be a long term issue much like it is in some real world countries. However, as conditions continue to take their toll and elves die of things other than completely unpreventable causes, things their masters could have fixed long ago before it was a problem and chose to ignore, the birth rate decline would accelerate to a point where it would shift to a short term problem. This would not even be possible with an infinite resource, but elves are not infinite.

Knowing Kali, I'm sure she has a shot at a great deal of power coming from her father. She is pretty intelligent and seems to have some sense of how things would work in his position. I could definitely see the MC as a figurehead considering his connection to her, maybe even coming on as some sort of actual position with some authority. No way he would get something big, but I could maybe see him as some sort of consultant or regional head for Syl'anar operations while she focuses on overall operations. This would let her be more focused on the big picture while he focuses entirely on his little part of it so she doesn't have to keep her attention there. She could also have other similar positions for other outlying areas that could become more of a funding operation to be funneled into the political battle ahead. I would still consider the figurehead idea as more likely considering her feelings on the business.

The board might actually prove to be an issue if it happens, but it depends who is on it, whether they support her or the opposition. If they support Cornwall or another pro-slave candidate, I could very easily see her getting ousted by the board if she lets them know her position since she would become a threat to them if they were pro-slave. That said, you're right, she should still have enough personal funding even if it would be harder to fight a political battle against slavery.

Apparently, I wasn't clear. I knew you were refering to elven extinction; my question was intended to make you realise they're in absolutely no danger of being driven to extinction through their mistreatment. I thought that was clear, but here we are...


It doesn't need to be infnite, nor did I ever say it was; it simply needs to be sustainable, and we've seen no evidence that it isn't. On the contrary, we've been told that their population has grown tremendously while they've been enslaved (even during the period when they had fewer rights, and their mistreatment was far more acute), which is the exact opposite of your claim. It is a demonstrable fact of the setting that, while being terribly mistreated, the elven population gre from tens of millins to over a billion. That fact is incompatible with your assertion that their mistreatment is driving them to extinction.


You might as well say "once the sun rises in the north and sets in the batman symbol". Again, they'd have to be getting murdered at the rate of tens of thousands every single day to even slow the population growth, let alone reverse it. There is no evidence the elven population is shrinking. Since the burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim (i.e. you) you're the one who needs to present some evidence that their population is declining. Thus far, you've failed to do so, outside repetiton, which isn't particularly compelling evidence.


First off, there doesn't actually need to be; you're the one making the claim that their extinction is imminent, so you're the one who needs to present evdence to that effect. I don't have to present evidence refuting your position; you need to present evidence supporting it.
Secondly, yes, there is. They've been mistreated since they were conquered, according to Lin they were treated far worse than they are being treated now, and yet their population has grown tremendously, from tens of millions to over a billion in only three centuries. If their mistreatment was having a negative affect on their ability to live, there'd be a whole lot less of them.


Nope. That'd only be true if the deaths caused by their mistreatment outstripped their ability to breed, and you've provided no evidence that's the case. If it were, then their population would have consistently declined over the centuries they were mistreated. The reverse happened, which means they must be procreating at a faster rate than they're being killed. It's pretty simple math. A - B = C; if C is a positive number, then A must be greater than B.


Not quite; it's assuming an annual birthrate of 18.5 million (based on the human average of 18.5 per 1,000), which works out at roughly 50,500 per day. It's worth noting that was me erring on the side of caution, since it's more likely their birthrate is higher than the human average, because they're being breed like livestock; because they literally ARE livestock (as in, they're classed as "animals breed to produce labour").
They're also clearly not that difficult to impregnate, otherwise there wouldn't be over a billion of them. Elves in other fictional settings are often depicted as far less fertile than humans, but so what? This isn't the Silmarillion, they aren't Asur or Eldar, they're Harem Hotels elves, and only their traits mattter, not the traits of other settings. Given the number of them in this fictional setting, they cannot have a low birthrate. Again, it's pretty simple math. To grow from tens of millions to over a billion in 300 years, their birthrate simply cannot be lower than the human norm; it must, in fact, be noticeably higher.


You don't seem to have understood what I was saying. I wasn't suggesting "breeding" 50,000 elves. I was pointing out that a billion elves would produce over 50,000 viable births per day, if they have the same birthrate as humans. If it's higher (which is likely, given how quickly their population grew to its current level) then they'd produce more.
It's also worth noting your math was way off; assuming an average procreation rate (18.5 per 1,000), then breeding 50,000 hypothetical elves would produce an average of 925 viable offspring in a year (the succesful procreation rate already accounts for non-viable pregnancies). You were off by nearly a full order of magnitude.


Which is still vastly longer than their owner will live, and who gives a damn what happens to them after that? Owner X will only get labour out of their slaves until they (Owner X) dies; any labour past that point, be it a day or 500 years, is completely irrelevant to Owner X, since they never see any of the benefit of that labour (on account of the whole "being dead" situation). The hypothetical half elf might die at 250, instead of 500, but so what? Why should Owner X give a damn about those 250 years of lost labour that only becomes relevant two centuries after Owner X is dead and buried?


So? Did their owner make more money out of working them to death than the cost of a new slave? If the answer is yes, then no harm, no foul. By working them to death, you make $5000 in a year. A new slave cost $1000. If you treated them well, you'd have made $3000 in that same year. Therefore, working them to death and then buying a new slave is more profitable that treating a slave well. The only cost is one dead elf, and who cares? There are always more elves.
I'm not sure why you're having such difficulty with the concept that people don't treat their slaves very well; it's a documented historical fact that people abused and mistreated slaves in the real-world, that many of them were worked to death in deplorable conditions, so why do you think the people in this fictional setting would do otherwise?


Only if more die in a year than are being born, and again, we've seen no evidence supporting such a supposition. Repeating a fallacious position doesn't make it less fallacious, no matter how often you repeat it.

They aren't? How are you so sure? Where are the stats that prove elves aren't already dying from the conditions they are kept in? If conditions are bad enough, yes, they will start dying off, and if breeding can't keep up, they go extinct. Eventually, breeding won't be enough unless ALL elves are diverted to breeding, which then means no elves are working their normal economy supporting duties. That would grind the economy to a halt with no extinction necessary.

In order for something to not be expended eventually, yes, it does need to be infinite. The elves are not and they are living under conditions that pose a threat to them. They will all die off eventually whether the humans like it or not. What the humans are doing is making the 'when' of that event sooner by exposing the elves to the potential for death by effect of the conditions they live in, which isn't long term, that could happen in a decade or less if the humans aren't careful. That's the furthest thing from sustainable, sustainable would be keeping the elves in at least the minimal conditions required to keep them alive throughout their natural lives. The elves are going through population growth now, but that may change depending on if things continue to deteriorate or not. I never said it was now driving them to extinction, I said it would if things continue as they have.

Which it very well could outstrip said ability, keep in mind that all of these arguments are future tense, not distant future, but not the present. This is something that hasn't happened, but easily could.

As for the difficulty in impregnation, is there any indication how long it took to get that population level? It certainly wasn't overnight, not saying you said that. The fact that there are billions doesn't speak for ease of impregnation unless it happened over a short period and that means they would be even easier than humans to impregnate if true. On the 'so what' part, I was using the common depiction due to a lack of HH specifc biological statistics on elf breeding. Without numbers specific to HH, the only thing I have to go on is how elves are normally portrayed IF something goes into that much detail. Humans just aren't a good stand in for a fantasy race in these things.

No, I understood you meant 50,000 offspring from a billion elves, what I said was using my own numbers. It is still entirely possible, and actually highly likely, you won't get a 1:1 birth rate off a specified number of bred elves and the ratio is actually more likely to be quite a bit lower. That was my point. This was accountiing for other issues that affect most, if not all beings in birthing including conditions that could result in the pregnancy not being viable either under normal parameters or the pregnancy going fine and the offspring not being viable for the labor force for some reason and also took into account that these are not humans we are talking about and, as far as anyone knows, they don't have the same birth capability.

Vastly longer if allowed to exist for that long, but conditions may take them out of the labor force before then either by disability or death, that's what I've been saying with each section about the end of life for any given elf, they could die from conditions in their enslavement that would prevent living anywhere near their full lifespan, as I said, they could last maybe a decade or less, maybe more before something ends them that could have been prevented if their oh so great master had given them the minimal level of treatment, at least, that would have kept that from happening.

And if the answer is no, the former owner has now taken the one thing they definitely wanted to avoid, a financial loss. What if they run iinto a situation where all the available slaves are basically Sylvia priced, you know, super high price that we, the player, had to grind out to get to? That's a pretty big loss to take and I'm pretty sure that isn't even considered viable in the short term. They are at the mercy of the market in that situation and the market can be brutal at times, especially if its a slave labor market.

We don't have evidence of it now, but remember, these are future tense arguments. They are not what is happening, they are what the future holds if things keep going downhill. I just hope the MC and his harem can stop it before that happens. As much as I would love to see the slave market coming crashing down in a chaotic inferno, figurative inferno even though I am fully in support of backing Nia's approach to the situation, I would rather not have that happen at the expense of elven lives.

*blatant hint to drop the arguement*
So, on a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate each characters breasts?

Lin and Ashley are 10s, the rest are 1s except android, who is a special case because of her size changing ability. If you can't tell by that, I prefer smaller ones and always take the android's small option in applicable scenes for size change. If this was a rating of a different sort, there would be much more variation in numbers.

Kali's are the breast and I will accept no alternatives in this matter.
Pun intended.

I see what you did there.

 

[TheDevian]

Yes, and a death because the elf was treated so poorly she couldn't survive would be in the short term. Like I said, we aren't talking death from built up issues, we're talking things that can take only a few years, not a few hundred, at most to kill.

The loss of longevity is but a secondary issue that affects only the long term unless it is reduced below a certain threshold, a threshold which is what I am referring to. If conditions are bad enough, it won't take all that long to start losing elf slaves.

I'm not saying the death rate actually is higher, what I'm saying is that, if this poor treatment continues, it will be and it won't take that long to get there.

The birth rate decline, which is not confirmed, would normally be a long term issue much like it is in some real world countries. However, as conditions continue to take their toll and elves die of things other than completely unpreventable causes, things their masters could have fixed long ago before it was a problem and chose to ignore, the birth rate decline would accelerate to a point where it would shift to a short term problem. This would not even be possible with an infinite resource, but elves are not infinite.

Knowing Kali, I'm sure she has a shot at a great deal of power coming from her father. She is pretty intelligent and seems to have some sense of how things would work in his position. I could definitely see the MC as a figurehead considering his connection to her, maybe even coming on as some sort of actual position with some authority. No way he would get something big, but I could maybe see him as some sort of consultant or regional head for Syl'anar operations while she focuses on overall operations. This would let her be more focused on the big picture while he focuses entirely on his little part of it so she doesn't have to keep her attention there. She could also have other similar positions for other outlying areas that could become more of a funding operation to be funneled into the political battle ahead. I would still consider the figurehead idea as more likely considering her feelings on the business.

The board might actually prove to be an issue if it happens, but it depends who is on it, whether they support her or the opposition. If they support Cornwall or another pro-slave candidate, I could very easily see her getting ousted by the board if she lets them know her position since she would become a threat to them if they were pro-slave. That said, you're right, she should still have enough personal funding even if it would be harder to fight a political battle against slavery.

Yes, short term, but not a problem, because they can always get more, or at the very least, have enough not to miss them. Just like my old bosses didn't care about hurting me, they just hired some other monkey to do that job, even if they had to hire 3 people, they still didn't care. The same thing happens to people every day. Most corporations, don't give two shits about their people, we have seen ample examples of that over the last two years alone.

Unless they keep breeding them like cattle.

IF the birthrate declined, but we don't know that is a factor... You keep using that point, but we don't have any reason to think that is true.

---​

She could appoint him to whatever job she wanted if she were the one in charge (or get her father to do it).

If there is a board, and she is a majority stockholder, they can't do anything to her. They can only have a say in what she does, if she is the one running the company, and even then, only if it is public knowledge. They can't tell a stockholder what to do, any more than I can tell you what to do.

 

[alex2011]

Yes, short term, but not a problem, because they can always get more, or at the very least, have enough not to miss them. Just like my old bosses didn't care about hurting me, they just hired some other monkey to do that job, even if they had to hire 3 people, they still didn't care. The same thing happens to people every day. Most corporations, don't give two shits about their people, we have seen ample examples of that over the last two years alone.

Unless they keep breeding them like cattle.

IF the birthrate declined, but we don't know that is a factor... You keep using that point, but we don't have any reason to think that is true.

---​

She could appoint him to whatever job she wanted if she were the one in charge (or get her father to do it).

If there is a board, and she is a majority stockholder, they can't do anything to her. They can only have a say in what she does, if she is the one running the company, and even then, only if it is public knowledge. They can't tell a stockholder what to do, any more than I can tell you what to do.

They can get more until they take losses too heavy to afford more, because the loss of the previous one was too much to overcome like with a particularly valuable slave, or the supply runs out. Then it's all over with no way to recover.

I keep using that point in the future tense, it may not being happening yet, but if conditions continue as they are, it will begin to happen and that will become a factor.

She could, as long as there isn't a board of directors reigning in her power that acts sort of like the US Senate in confirming her choices for positions. If that happens, she may find it tough to get who she wants where she wants. That said, she's smart, so I'm sure she will find a way even around that issue IF it comes up. We still don't know how it will play out. Like the other issue, there are a ton of unknowns that make it extremely difficult to determine for sure.

 

[TheDevian]

They can get more until they take losses too heavy to afford more, because the loss of the previous one was too much to overcome like with a particularly valuable slave, or the supply runs out. Then it's all over with no way to recover.

I keep using that point in the future tense, it may not being happening yet, but if conditions continue as they are, it will begin to happen and that will become a factor.

She could, as long as there isn't a board of directors reigning in her power that acts sort of like the US Senate in confirming her choices for positions. If that happens, she may find it tough to get who she wants where she wants. That said, she's smart, so I'm sure she will find a way even around that issue IF it comes up. We still don't know how it will play out. Like the other issue, there are a ton of unknowns that make it extremely difficult to determine for sure.

I thought it should be obvious, but of course you are not going to use your well trained/skilled slaves to do dangerous jobs, you send in the 'grunts' for that shit. You don't send your courtesan to the front line, and you don't ask a doctor to deliver your newspaper.

"If things keep happening as they are..."
This is the part we are taking issue with, for all we know, the birth rate could be much higher than the death rate, as far as we know 'if things keep happening as they are now', could mean that the elf population continues to grow. That is the whole thing, your main point hinges on this one factor that may or may not be true. Pure speculation. And even if it were true, it is something that could easily be mitigated.

Yeah, if there is a board, it could potentially stop her from appointing the player, but not what she does with her money.

 

[PrimeX]

Last I played this was around two years ago at version 0.7.2 now I've just finished the latest build starting from the beginning and took me around 20 hours and I love it. Except for one thing. What the hell man 2 years and there's nowhere near enough scenes with my best gal Ellen. Keep it up though dev, love your work just please gimme more Ellen!

 

[Oldtoothlessbasterd]

This thread has got so heavy!.

And heres me an Old orc just standing here holding up my sign that says... "Keep more elf slaves!."
On the back is written, "Don't free the elfs"

 

[alex2011]

I thought it should be obvious, but of course you are not going to use your well trained/skilled slaves to do dangerous jobs, you send in the 'grunts' for that shit. You don't send your courtesan to the front line, and you don't ask a doctor to deliver your newspaper.

"If things keep happening as they are..."
This is the part we are taking issue with, for all we know, the birth rate could be much higher than the death rate, as far as we know 'if things keep happening as they are now', could mean that the elf population continues to grow. That is the whole thing, your main point hinges on this one factor that may or may not be true. Pure speculation. And even if it were true, it is something that could easily be mitigated.

Yeah, if there is a board, it could potentially stop her from appointing the player, but not what she does with her money.

Grunts, high value slaves, either way a slave dies if something happens to cause it and they end up needing replaced. It doesn't even have to be on a high risk job, they are being mistreated, so I doubt they are in peak health.

You're right, it is pure speculation, as is any point that has no basis on events that have already happened or that is based around details that have never been given. That's all I ever do when not talking about things that have already happened, speculation, because that's all there is to do with such things.

Very true, Kali would still have control of her money, just not necessarily company assets. It might be less than if company assets were in play, but I don't think Kali would have any problem waging a political battle on any opponent...unless that opponent is actually a group formed from multiple of said opponents specifically to stop her anti-slavery effort. However, that is a different matter entirely.

 

[Gnarlywonder]

1.Since this is such a huge thread and im overwhelmed searching (im on page 1200 so far) could someone post or reply to my comment with a download link for android preferably the latest version

(hopefully with a wt mod already )

(android 11 doesn't allow users to edit any of the storage/emulated0/android/data and i only have a phone)

 

[c3p0]

1.Since this is such a huge thread and im overwhelmed searching (im on page 1200 so far) could someone post or reply to my comment with a download link for android preferably the latest version

(hopefully with a wt mod already )

(android 11 doesn't allow users to edit any of the storage/emulated0/android/data and i only have a phone)

I can't do that. A special Android version isn't official provided anymore due difficulties of the Android version.
So either use the approach with Joyplay (links are in the first post of this thread) or use an unofficial Android version, although I don't see a 0.13.2 Android version at all.

 

[Gnarlywonder]

With joy play does it have to be the windows version ? Ive tryed joyplay a few times and never am able to get it to work . I think it has something to do with the exe file i try im too noob for life *lil lol*

 

[TheDevian]

Grunts, high value slaves, either way a slave dies if something happens to cause it and they end up needing replaced. It doesn't even have to be on a high risk job, they are being mistreated, so I doubt they are in peak health.

You're right, it is pure speculation, as is any point that has no basis on events that have already happened or that is based around details that have never been given. That's all I ever do when not talking about things that have already happened, speculation, because that's all there is to do with such things.

Very true, Kali would still have control of her money, just not necessarily company assets. It might be less than if company assets were in play, but I don't think Kali would have any problem waging a political battle on any opponent...unless that opponent is actually a group formed from multiple of said opponents specifically to stop her anti-slavery effort. However, that is a different matter entirely.

Yes, they have to be replaced, that is why we have them breeding. For all we know, they are making far more babies then they are killing off, and we can say this is as much a fact as the opposite, which is to say, not at all.

I do the same, but we need to have some reason for it, and this is one that can easily be explained away. If it did become a problem, there are easy way to fix it, and half-elves are a good stop gap. So, unless Runey comes out and says it's a problem, we have to assume that it is at least not enough of one to be a problem in our lifetime.

-----​

The difference here is that she could anonymously fund a shadow campaign of ads, spreading an anti slavery message, or use another to just target pro-slavery candidates, making them look bad, without ever coming out for anyone. It could be done in a way that the money is almost untraceable, and no one would be any the wiser.

She could also privately support Vanessa or anyone else to run against the establishment, or not, simply by making the alternative look so bad in every other way, the less evil people will be more likely to be elected either way.

With joy play does it have to be the windows version ? Ive tryed joyplay a few times and never am able to get it to work . I think it has something to do with the exe file i try im too noob for life *lil lol*

Yes, you have to use the Windows version for Joiplay.

 

[alex2011]

Yes, they have to be replaced, that is why we have them breeding. For all we know, they are making far more babies then they are killing off, and we can say this is as much a fact as the opposite, which is to say, not at all.

I do the same, but we need to have some reason for it, and this is one that can easily be explained away. If it did become a problem, there are easy way to fix it, and half-elves are a good stop gap. So, unless Runey comes out and says it's a problem, we have to assume that it is at least not enough of one to be a problem in our lifetime.

-----​

The difference here is that she could anonymously fund a shadow campaign of ads, spreading an anti slavery message, or use another to just target pro-slavery candidates, making them look bad, without ever coming out for anyone. It could be done in a way that the money is almost untraceable, and no one would be any the wiser.

She could also privately support Vanessa or anyone else to run against the establishment, or not, simply by making the alternative look so bad in every other way, the less evil people will be more likely to be elected either way.

Yes, you have to use the Windows version for Joiplay.

For now, that's my point, it won't stay that way if the elves continue to be mistreated.

There is reason for this speculation, Syl'anar supposedly has their slave trade as an important part of their economy, so what negatively affects the slaves, at least performance wise, negatively affects the economy. I don't think this is an issue of it not being a problem, more an issue of the owners in game not caring even if it is.

She could and it could prove very effective much like leaflet drops in previous real world wars were. A powerful propaganda tool that could swing things in her favor if not outright bring opinion to her side entirely. Better yet, get someone to go undercover with some of the more radical owners and catch them red handed doing something either blatantly against the reforms or that is borderline. That would at least gain the attention, and potentially the ire, of the people who wanted the reforms in the first place. Undercover tactics are a tiny bit shady, but at this point, I'd be willing to go full all out war with Nia as the commanding field officer of whatever force is involved, undercover work is minor compared to that.

 

[TheDevian]

For now, that's my point, it won't stay that way if the elves continue to be mistreated.

There is reason for this speculation, Syl'anar supposedly has their slave trade as an important part of their economy, so what negatively affects the slaves, at least performance wise, negatively affects the economy. I don't think this is an issue of it not being a problem, more an issue of the owners in game not caring even if it is.

She could and it could prove very effective much like leaflet drops in previous real world wars were. A powerful propaganda tool that could swing things in her favor if not outright bring opinion to her side entirely. Better yet, get someone to go undercover with some of the more radical owners and catch them red handed doing something either blatantly against the reforms or that is borderline. That would at least gain the attention, and potentially the ire, of the people who wanted the reforms in the first place. Undercover tactics are a tiny bit shady, but at this point, I'd be willing to go full all out war with Nia as the commanding field officer of whatever force is involved, undercover work is minor compared to that.

Again, this is assuming that the birth rate is low. This will only matter, if they are dying off faster than they are being born and trained. And so far, we have no evidence that this is even remotely the case.

We know many owners don't care, we know that most of the government doesn't care, many do, but most don't. Elf lives don't matter to them at all, and are happy to let them get hurt or die, and will only start to care, if and when it becomes a problem, and even then, they will only care about the numbers, not the people themselves.

This is like people going out and killing bugs that get in their way. Killing bees for fear of being stung or killing ants that get close to the home, not caring about how critical their roles are to a functioning planet.

--- --- ---​

Yes, they would need intelligence and evidence for a normal campaign, if they want to get people kicked out of office, and gathering that intel would be a good job for Nia/Sui and the fairies. That said, most of these smear campaigns don't need facts, or evidence. Just make something up, say 'some people are saying' or 'I am just asking the questions, it's up to you to decide', and bullshit like that.

It is much easier to get people to believe a lie, than it is to convince them that they have been lied to.

 

[alex2011]

Again, this is assuming that the birth rate is low. This will only matter, if they are dying off faster than they are being born and trained. And so far, we have no evidence that this is even remotely the case.

We know many owners don't care, we know that most of the government doesn't care, many do, but most don't. Elf lives don't matter to them at all, and are happy to let them get hurt or die, and will only start to care, if and when it becomes a problem, and even then, they will only care about the numbers, not the people themselves.

This is like people going out and killing bugs that get in their way. Killing bees for fear of being stung or killing ants that get close to the home, not caring about how critical their roles are to a functioning planet.

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Yes, they would need intelligence and evidence for a normal campaign, if they want to get people kicked out of office, and gathering that intel would be a good job for Nia/Sui and the fairies. That said, most of these smear campaigns don't need facts, or evidence. Just make something up, say 'some people are saying' or 'I am just asking the questions, it's up to you to decide', and bullshit like that.

It is much easier to get people to believe a lie, than it is to convince them that they have been lied to.

And my comment was in future tense, not what is happening, but what will later down the same path. This is dealing with a lot of unknowns. We know that the birth rate was high enough to cause a boom at one point, but we don't know what it is now or where it is heading.

Unfortunately, the many who do care aren't enough or aren't in high enough positions. One elf isn't a problem, but when more than that start dropping from the mistreatment, that's when the problem comes up, especially when it overcomes the birth rate.

I'm not so sure about Nia given her views on the slave trade. She seems more...violently inclined toward that than a good spy would need to be. She absolutely can't let her feelings get in the way of her mission, the last thing we need is for her to blow her cover and the entire operation in some sudden attack because she snapped or whatever else causes her to be unable to hold back. Then there's another issue that covers all our elves, the fact that they are elves. Being discovered is a surefire way to blow not only that operation, but any chance at a redo. As much as I support the elves, I think either the fairies, with their invisibility, or a human would be better suited to intelligence gathering, especially behind enemy lines. Humans aren't likely to draw suspicion based on appearance unless the person is a known elf sympathizer and any current owners, the player character perhaps, would be welcomed assuming the previous sentence is false, that they are not known to be a sympathizer. A smear based on actual evidence would be much more potent because it can't be refuted. A smear that is entirely false only needs to be publicly proven false, as does happen in elections in the real world, and then it backfires. I mean, they could use the Goebbels principles to pass off an outright lie, but that can be risky as well.

All in all, there is a lot to consider going into something like opposing the people in power already during an election or otherwise.

 

[Runey]

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[Kane_Freeman]

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My biggest expectation from the next update is to see more Autumn content. It would also be nice to see content about Autumn's sister. Maybe Autumn's sister might even try to take MC away from her because she's mad at her. It would be great to see that, too.