VN Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.18.2] [Runey]

[alex2011]

It could be anything. We have nothing to base any kind of theory on, all we have it pure conjecture at best, with little to no evidence to back it up.

---

As for the espionage, that is usually best to leave to the fairies.

Sure, but infiltrating by being one of them is something that would take a lot of time. You have to earn their trust, work your way up, and so on. Double agents are nice, but that can take years to set up.

You would think that, but in the real world, most of the time, it's the made up stuff that takes, though I admit, that it helps to have the lie based on something that is true. "We know they did X, so obviously they had to have done Y and Z too!!!" You just need people to spread that 'news'.

Sadly, that is true about out elections, which is kind of my point, and it can be done mostly anonymously.

This is why Kali is the head wife.

Agreed, unless there is some way to detect fairies that we don't know about and they do, but again, conjecture as speculation usually is. Using the fairies for their invisibility would still get us any intelligence just lying around like documents, but what I'm getting at with the double agent infiltration idea is intelligence by word of mouth. There may be valuable intelligence we can't gain by finding documents because that intelligence is something they specifically avoided making hard copies of to avoid it being stolen. A double agent adept enough at subtly getting people to talk, or trusted enough for people not to be too wary to talk, could get that kind of intelligence. Nia would be a potential threat in both cases, but the fairies would be an excellent choice for just sneaking around and humans would be an excellent choice for double agents, as long as Nia knows the double agent isn't actually betraying the cause. She'd go ballistic for sure if she found a traitor.

The only idea I hesitate to put out there is an elven double agent since the only way that would work is by letting them get taken as a slave of the enemy. First there's the issue of them getting used and potentially killed in the process of it depending on how they are used. I absolutely wouldn't want to knowingly put someone at risk of that, especially someone I know is guaranteed to be at higher risk like an elf. When the enemy isn't using them, the elf could poke around any areas that aren't off limits to them, but this does limit the poosibility of anything helpful being found. The enemy would also be far less likely to spill anything to an elf than a human, they probably wouldn't even talk to an elf like they would a human double agent. Elves poking around, if caught, would also still seem more suspicious than humans.

You're right, it would take time, which is another issue with that approach, especially if an elf is the double agent considering they would have to split their time inside between poking around and whatever they are used for by the enemy. As for the years it could take, I'm not talking about setting up a full blown operation, just using them enough to gain some intelligence, which wouldn't take as long. You do have a point, though. It could still take too long.

You think so? Because I'd say the sheer number of people who believe that Covid is a hoax, and that vaccines contain microchips so that Bill Gates can track you (or they'll give you autism, or make you docile and easier for the government mind control satellites, or whatever other insanity is making the rounds at the moment) proves that no amount of evidence will convince some people of the truth. Some lies are believed in spite of all the evidence against them, and some truths are ignored despite a preponderance of evidence.
"A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on."

Ah yes, the tin foil hat brigade. You're right, there are some people who won't believe even the most documented truths. There are still people who believe Apollo was fake despite so much that says it wasn't, including the biggest adversary of the US at the time, who would have immediately jumped at the chance to call out the US if it actually was fake. I'm sure people like this exist in Syl'anar as well, the question is how many.

 

[TheDevian]

Agreed, unless there is some way to detect fairies that we don't know about and they do, but again, conjecture as speculation usually is. Using the fairies for their invisibility would still get us any intelligence just lying around like documents, but what I'm getting at with the double agent infiltration idea is intelligence by word of mouth. There may be valuable intelligence we can't gain by finding documents because that intelligence is something they specifically avoided making hard copies of to avoid it being stolen. A double agent adept enough at subtly getting people to talk, or trusted enough for people not to be too wary to talk, could get that kind of intelligence. Nia would be a potential threat in both cases, but the fairies would be an excellent choice for just sneaking around and humans would be an excellent choice for double agents, as long as Nia knows the double agent isn't actually betraying the cause. She'd go ballistic for sure if she found a traitor.

The only idea I hesitate to put out there is an elven double agent since the only way that would work is by letting them get taken as a slave of the enemy. First there's the issue of them getting used and potentially killed in the process of it depending on how they are used. I absolutely wouldn't want to knowingly put someone at risk of that, especially someone I know is guaranteed to be at higher risk like an elf. When the enemy isn't using them, the elf could poke around any areas that aren't off limits to them, but this does limit the poosibility of anything helpful being found. The enemy would also be far less likely to spill anything to an elf than a human, they probably wouldn't even talk to an elf like they would a human double agent. Elves poking around, if caught, would also still seem more suspicious than humans.

You're right, it would take time, which is another issue with that approach, especially if an elf is the double agent considering they would have to split their time inside between poking around and whatever they are used for by the enemy. As for the years it could take, I'm not talking about setting up a full blown operation, just using them enough to gain some intelligence, which wouldn't take as long. You do have a point, though. It could still take too long.


Ah yes, the tin foil hat brigade. You're right, there are some people who won't believe even the most documented truths. There are still people who believe Apollo was fake despite so much that says it wasn't, including the biggest adversary of the US at the time, who would have immediately jumped at the chance to call out the US if it actually was fake. I'm sure people like this exist in Syl'anar as well, the question is how many.

As far as we know, infrared (and maybe other spectrums, such as ultraviolet) can see it, and while androids and military compound cameras have those, that is not the most common thing around, and the androids would need to know to look for them... So, other than some hard to hit facilities, they would be the best bet for most situations.

Infiltration would be good, the down sides are that you need to have specific targets in mind, and plan way ahead of time. This could work for major targets, like perhaps Cornwall or the President, but it would be a lot harder for smaller targets, unless she wants to try to hire people to work at almost every pro-slavery candidate. It seems to me that it would be easier to bribe people who already work for them, though that carries its own risks. The way things are now, there are far too many potential targets.

Same with the slaves, who are being abused by them to rat them out, give them money, have Nia/Sui help their loved ones, promise to get them out once they are done, etc... If those owners are as bad as we assume they are, odds are, they have some very unhappy slaves.

Exactly, that could take years, and that time might not always be an option.

---​

Well, we saw a lot of them at the counter protest not long ago, and they clearly had the support of the police.

 

[RaijinStormBlessed]

It's about 99%. Only some Autumn stuff is missing and all the pin-ups, minus Lin's, Ellen's and whatever story-driven ones.
Truestory code used
Tons of money (thanks to the console commands)
Jin has been cured
Lin, Nia & Sylvia on LOVE route
Android is named "Miyu"

Just use the "changename" command in the MC's computer and change it to whatever you want and don't forget to remove all the numbers and the "_" after you download the file, only keeping "1-1-LT1.save"

Just wanted to show my appreciation for you're post. Thanks a ton.

 

[itfod]

Yes, it was one of her newest slave path events.

Ahhhh. I chose lover for both Nia and Sylvia, rather than slave. I had wondered if that would provide a difference... whelp, guess I need to replay from that point.

 

[alex2011]

As far as we know, infrared (and maybe other spectrums, such as ultraviolet) can see it, and while androids and military compound cameras have those, that is not the most common thing around, and the androids would need to know to look for them... So, other than some hard to hit facilities, they would be the best bet for most situations.

Infiltration would be good, the down sides are that you need to have specific targets in mind, and plan way ahead of time. This could work for major targets, like perhaps Cornwall or the President, but it would be a lot harder for smaller targets, unless she wants to try to hire people to work at almost every pro-slavery candidate. It seems to me that it would be easier to bribe people who already work for them, though that carries its own risks. The way things are now, there are far too many potential targets.

Same with the slaves, who are being abused by them to rat them out, give them money, have Nia/Sui help their loved ones, promise to get them out once they are done, etc... If those owners are as bad as we assume they are, odds are, they have some very unhappy slaves.

Exactly, that could take years, and that time might not always be an option.

---​

Well, we saw a lot of them at the counter protest not long ago, and they clearly had the support of the police.

That would be a problem with a fairy infiltration, then. At least if the enemy uses that kind of tech for security.

Cornwall and the president would be all they would need. They could get some dirt on those two that could either result in them suspending their run/resigning from office or something that would make it pretty much impossible to win/stay in office with the voters knowing. They would either have to leave themselves or get dragged out by the voters, potentially literally, which I have to say is an amusing thing to imagine. Smaller targets aren't as big a deal, media coverage could probably take care of them in a more or less 'fair and square' political campaign. Single quotes because I mean it in the US election kind of fair like the attack ads every two seconds kind.

They definitely have some very unhappy slaves and I'd bet just about every abused elf in Syl'anar would be willing to turn on their master in a political campaign. I don't even think those elves would need any prodding or would have any hesitations.

Even just months might be a bit too long depending on how much longer before the next Syl'anar election.

 

[TheDevian]

Ahhhh. I chose lover for both Nia and Sylvia, rather than slave. I had wondered if that would provide a difference... whelp, guess I need to replay from that point.

The slave path gets sex stuff sooner, the love path is 'canon' and gives you more story at the cost of having to wait for the sex stuff. Worth having a set of saves for both.

That would be a problem with a fairy infiltration, then. At least if the enemy uses that kind of tech for security.

Cornwall and the president would be all they would need. They could get some dirt on those two that could either result in them suspending their run/resigning from office or something that would make it pretty much impossible to win/stay in office with the voters knowing. They would either have to leave themselves or get dragged out by the voters, potentially literally, which I have to say is an amusing thing to imagine. Smaller targets aren't as big a deal, media coverage could probably take care of them in a more or less 'fair and square' political campaign. Single quotes because I mean it in the US election kind of fair like the attack ads every two seconds kind.

They definitely have some very unhappy slaves and I'd bet just about every abused elf in Syl'anar would be willing to turn on their master in a political campaign. I don't even think those elves would need any prodding or would have any hesitations.

Even just months might be a bit too long depending on how much longer before the next Syl'anar election.

Yeah, they will have to be careful how and where to use the fairies' skills. Can't over use them for a lot of reasons, the least of which, their lack of access to new crystals. My hopes are that they can find a way to get them, maybe with some research, they can find them online or something (Android should be able to find them if anyone can).

Even if they can replace Cornwall and the president, that would still leave the rest of whatever passes for their other governing bodies to deal with. From what we have seen, their government works a lot like the U.S., so I assume they have something like the congress and courts who can overrule anything they do. What you want to do is start small, with local elections, and work your way up. Slowly getting rid of the worst actors, and doing our best to replace as many as possible with elf friendly people.

I mean, bad as he is, Cornwall is far from the worst possible option there. He is the main reason the elves have the rights they have now, so while he is still a big part of the problem, he is at least someone we can work with for a while, as long as we can get others who will go along with more change (and help pressure him into it).

Some of them, though giving them safe passage (something Nia/Sui's friends can help with), would be a nice bonus.

Months would be minimum. You need to scrub their social media accounts, make a fake history, and make sure you can't tell they are friendly to elves, so anyone with a history like Vanessa would be hard. But getting someone without that history is going to make it harder to trust them. Though, again, this is where Android is going to come in handy. XD

 

[alex2011]

The slave path gets sex stuff sooner, the love path is 'canon' and gives you more story at the cost of having to wait for the sex stuff. Worth having a set of saves for both.

Yeah, they will have to be careful how and where to use the fairies' skills. Can't over use them for a lot of reasons, the least of which, their lack of access to new crystals. My hopes are that they can find a way to get them, maybe with some research, they can find them online or something (Android should be able to find them if anyone can).

Even if they can replace Cornwall and the president, that would still leave the rest of whatever passes for their other governing bodies to deal with. From what we have seen, their government works a lot like the U.S., so I assume they have something like the congress and courts who can overrule anything they do. What you want to do is start small, with local elections, and work your way up. Slowly getting rid of the worst actors, and doing our best to replace as many as possible with elf friendly people.

I mean, bad as he is, Cornwall is far from the worst possible option there. He is the main reason the elves have the rights they have now, so while he is still a big part of the problem, he is at least someone we can work with for a while, as long as we can get others who will go along with more change (and help pressure him into it).

Some of them, though giving them safe passage (something Nia/Sui's friends can help with), would be a nice bonus.

Months would be minimum. You need to scrub their social media accounts, make a fake history, and make sure you can't tell they are friendly to elves, so anyone with a history like Vanessa would be hard. But getting someone without that history is going to make it harder to trust them. Though, again, this is where Android is going to come in handy. XD

Or maybe they can find a way to make them, which would alleviate the issue of this finite resource being, well, finite.

As for the rest of the governing body, I'm not so worried about them. They would be easier to take down and it wouldn't be as urgent. Assuming we can get an anti-slavery candidate to replace Cornwall and the president, even if the others tried anything, it couldn't pass. At least assuming the government works in a similar manner to the real world US government, where it is the legislative branch, that's these other people, that makes the laws and the executive branch, that's Cornwall and the president, that enacts them. The replacement would simply have to deny any legislation in this case and it would have to go back through IF it doesn't just die the first time it is not signed. Once we have someone at the top, that person can enforce the reforms or even strengthen them. It would not take new legislation to stengthen them, either, just a new interpretation that doesn't leave room for any remaining mistreatment and enforcement that takes care of people who don't comply, both in public view of the people who wanted the reforms and behind the scenes, where those people can't see and don't know what is happening. A few stings and we would have the backing of these people, strencthening our position to take any further positions beyond those two.

Cornwall is, indirectly at least, the reason Maria went through what she did. The only work that should involve him is taking him down, by any means necessary, including sicking Nia on him if it comes to that.

A very nice bonus indeed, and it would further bolster our position with the anti-slavery and pro-reform voters. Not to mention having earned the trust and support of the elves if we go for less...diplomatic action.

But someone who is already an owner would practically be welcomed with open arms. The player character has no such public views. He may hold them in private minus being known to his allies, but the other owners don't know he opposes them yet. His history is already clean of suspicious activity, so no need to clean that for him. At worst he is known to have an issue with his slaves being treated different than he would treat them because of the Maria incident.

 

[TheDevian]

Or maybe they can find a way to make them, which would alleviate the issue of this finite resource being, well, finite.

As for the rest of the governing body, I'm not so worried about them. They would be easier to take down and it wouldn't be as urgent. Assuming we can get an anti-slavery candidate to replace Cornwall and the president, even if the others tried anything, it couldn't pass. At least assuming the government works in a similar manner to the real world US government, where it is the legislative branch, that's these other people, that makes the laws and the executive branch, that's Cornwall and the president, that enacts them. The replacement would simply have to deny any legislation in this case and it would have to go back through IF it doesn't just die the first time it is not signed. Once we have someone at the top, that person can enforce the reforms or even strengthen them. It would not take new legislation to stengthen them, either, just a new interpretation that doesn't leave room for any remaining mistreatment and enforcement that takes care of people who don't comply, both in public view of the people who wanted the reforms and behind the scenes, where those people can't see and don't know what is happening. A few stings and we would have the backing of these people, strencthening our position to take any further positions beyond those two.

Cornwall is, indirectly at least, the reason Maria went through what she did. The only work that should involve him is taking him down, by any means necessary, including sicking Nia on him if it comes to that.

A very nice bonus indeed, and it would further bolster our position with the anti-slavery and pro-reform voters. Not to mention having earned the trust and support of the elves if we go for less...diplomatic action.

But someone who is already an owner would practically be welcomed with open arms. The player character has no such public views. He may hold them in private minus being known to his allies, but the other owners don't know he opposes them yet. His history is already clean of suspicious activity, so no need to clean that for him. At worst he is known to have an issue with his slaves being treated different than he would treat them because of the Maria incident.

That is possible, depends on what it is about the crystals that powers their abilities. Could we make them, could we recharge them, could we find a mine? Hard to say. Sadly, we just don't know that much about them yet. Maybe we could examine various ones, from as fresh as you can get to ones that are nearly depleted and see if we can figure out what is being 'used up'. Since we can't examine an 'empty' one, since they explode.

Cornwall seems to have a good bit of power over the elves, but we have already seen that he is willing to break other laws if it will help him, and he could be removed if he pisses off the wrong people, and this goes for anyone we could replace them with. The president would also have a lot of power, but he is not a king, the other branches of government could easily override anything he does or remove him from office as well if he does something they don't like. For that to work, they will need the support of the other branches, or it won't work.

Real life example, when we did it in the U.S., not only did it start a war, but the president that did it got assassinated.

Yes, he is in part responsible for how Maria was treated, very true. But, we can't let our emotions burn any (more) bridges than we need. He is currently working with Kali and Autumn's dads to improve the lives of elves, so while he doesn't do near enough, he is still technically a partial ally. The best way, would be to work with him, help him see where he is wrong, and then convince him to retire and support/endorse our replacement.

The MC is not actually registered as as an owner, and is not a native citizen, if he is a citizen at all, now that I think about it. So he could never be president, though if he passes the citizen test, he could at least run for Cornwall's job. Which, in and of itself is a black mark on his record. But, even if that works out, he is just one guy, and can only look for issues in one group, in this example, Cornwall's. Admittedly, his is the best one, and if you only go after one guy, he is the one, but to do this right, it really needs to be a bottom up campaign.

The other problem with it being the MC, is that he is not the focus of the story, and it would take a lot of time, more than just one event, so odds are, that would probably be one of the girls' jobs, since it is their story, not his.

 

[alex2011]

That is possible, depends on what it is about the crystals that powers their abilities. Could we make them, could we recharge them, could we find a mine? Hard to say. Sadly, we just don't know that much about them yet. Maybe we could examine various ones, from as fresh as you can get to ones that are nearly depleted and see if we can figure out what is being 'used up'. Since we can't examine an 'empty' one, since they explode.

Cornwall seems to have a good bit of power over the elves, but we have already seen that he is willing to break other laws if it will help him, and he could be removed if he pisses off the wrong people, and this goes for anyone we could replace them with. The president would also have a lot of power, but he is not a king, the other branches of government could easily override anything he does or remove him from office as well if he does something they don't like. For that to work, they will need the support of the other branches, or it won't work.

Real life example, when we did it in the U.S., not only did it start a war, but the president that did it got assassinated.

Yes, he is in part responsible for how Maria was treated, very true. But, we can't let our emotions burn any (more) bridges than we need. He is currently working with Kali and Autumn's dads to improve the lives of elves, so while he doesn't do near enough, he is still technically a partial ally. The best way, would be to work with him, help him see where he is wrong, and then convince him to retire and support/endorse our replacement.

The MC is not actually registered as as an owner, and is not a native citizen, if he is a citizen at all, now that I think about it. So he could never be president, though if he passes the citizen test, he could at least run for Cornwall's job. Which, in and of itself is a black mark on his record. But, even if that works out, he is just one guy, and can only look for issues in one group, in this example, Cornwall's. Admittedly, his is the best one, and if you only go after one guy, he is the one, but to do this right, it really needs to be a bottom up campaign.

The other problem with it being the MC, is that he is not the focus of the story, and it would take a lot of time, more than just one event, so odds are, that would probably be one of the girls' jobs, since it is their story, not his.

Indeed, the crystals are a VERY big unknown.

The wrong people including the people who called for the reforms, he did do those specifically to avoid being booted out. The part about the president is very true, especially if it runs like the US government. All it would take is one slip up and our candidate, or the current president, is on their way to the Syl'anar equivalent to an impeachment hearing if such a thing exists in their system. It is pretty well known that, in real life, politicians of opposing political parties are just itching for an excuse to try and get the opposing politician out of office. I'm sure there are people like that in Syl'anar's government and that means they will not hesitate to attempt something like impeachment on the slightest issue that they think they can get away with.

Even if we burn the political bridges, there is still the Nia method. I don't see him as an ally, he burned that bridge already. To me, he is public enemy number one with the president and the queen coming up tied for second since both are as big a threat to elves as the other. There's also one thing that is a major issue with working with him, Nia wouldn't have it. That is probably the single worst thing we could do to her considering how big of an anti-slave advocate she is. As it is now, whether he works to improve elves' lives is irrelevant because they are still enslaved. The only thing that could change that for her is if he outright started phasing out slavery, but not only is the Syl'anar economy tied to it, still failing to see how they succeed with their short term focused treatment of slaves, he also risks being ousted next election or even being recalled immediately by the pro-slave majority.

I wasn't talking about the MC being president, when mentioning the MC in previous comments, I was talking about ways to gather intelligence. He has had more than negative interactions with people who would be on the opposite side of this political battle, interactions that give him a history of at least neutral contact with them that could get him in easier than anyone else in the main cast. I'm not even sure a bottom up campaign would suffice, it might have to be an everyone at once campaign to even make a dent. It depends on how quickly they can recover.

 

[TheDevian]

Indeed, the crystals are a VERY big unknown.

The wrong people including the people who called for the reforms, he did do those specifically to avoid being booted out. The part about the president is very true, especially if it runs like the US government. All it would take is one slip up and our candidate, or the current president, is on their way to the Syl'anar equivalent to an impeachment hearing if such a thing exists in their system. It is pretty well known that, in real life, politicians of opposing political parties are just itching for an excuse to try and get the opposing politician out of office. I'm sure there are people like that in Syl'anar's government and that means they will not hesitate to attempt something like impeachment on the slightest issue that they think they can get away with.

Even if we burn the political bridges, there is still the Nia method. I don't see him as an ally, he burned that bridge already. To me, he is public enemy number one with the president and the queen coming up tied for second since both are as big a threat to elves as the other. There's also one thing that is a major issue with working with him, Nia wouldn't have it. That is probably the single worst thing we could do to her considering how big of an anti-slave advocate she is. As it is now, whether he works to improve elves' lives is irrelevant because they are still enslaved. The only thing that could change that for her is if he outright started phasing out slavery, but not only is the Syl'anar economy tied to it, still failing to see how they succeed with their short term focused treatment of slaves, he also risks being ousted next election or even being recalled immediately by the pro-slave majority.

I wasn't talking about the MC being president, when mentioning the MC in previous comments, I was talking about ways to gather intelligence. He has had more than negative interactions with people who would be on the opposite side of this political battle, interactions that give him a history of at least neutral contact with them that could get him in easier than anyone else in the main cast. I'm not even sure a bottom up campaign would suffice, it might have to be an everyone at once campaign to even make a dent. It depends on how quickly they can recover.

Aw fuck, their update lost my message. I spent almost 30 min on that post. I pressed post, and it deleted everything... I don't remember it all, and don't really have the heart to try...

The main issue here is that it will take more than one trick. We are going to need a ground up campaign, otherwise all the people who want to keep slaves, will just get rid of them, and reverse whatever they do. I had a longer bit on that, but it's just gone...

Nia/Sui's usual tactics would need to save for a last resort. We can't be shown to have any connection there, in fact, we might even have to publicly come out against her and her methods. On the other hand, her network of people could be really useful, with the right incentives and investments, they could expand from only looking for abused slaves, but also getting dirt on the bad masters. I had more there, but can't remember what it was...

Cornwall is not a true ally, but he is the furthest thing from the worst guy out there. He is the main reason things are not worse. If not for him, things like what happened to Maria would be happening to the elves too. Life would be much worse for all of them. A real world example would be Al Jolson. He spent much of his life helping to promote black actors, and is the reason the first black show appeared on Broadway. On the other hand, he also performed in blackface, and perpetuated a number of stereotypes. Point is, whole we might consider a lot of what he did as racist, he did a lot for the cause, and we would not be in the same place without him.

What I mean by ground up, is that we need to not only fill as many other seats as possible, but also trying to change the mind of the public, with media, like tv shows and movies that show elves in a positive way, humanize them, as it were.

IDK, I said it all better before, and I am not sure what I forgot, and what I said before...

 

[hezmerbevan]

Hello guys, does anyone know how Cutie Pie outfit for Lin works? I bought it but I don't recall seeing any option for her to wear it.

 

[Dash200017]

Hello guys, does anyone know how Cutie Pie outfit for Lin works? I bought it but I don't recall seeing any option for her to wear it.

Did you pick it up (Check for mail) from the front door?

 

[alex2011]

Aw fuck, their update lost my message. I spent almost 30 min on that post. I pressed post, and it deleted everything... I don't remember it all, and don't really have the heart to try...

The main issue here is that it will take more than one trick. We are going to need a ground up campaign, otherwise all the people who want to keep slaves, will just get rid of them, and reverse whatever they do. I had a longer bit on that, but it's just gone...

Nia/Sui's usual tactics would need to save for a last resort. We can't be shown to have any connection there, in fact, we might even have to publicly come out against her and her methods. On the other hand, her network of people could be really useful, with the right incentives and investments, they could expand from only looking for abused slaves, but also getting dirt on the bad masters. I had more there, but can't remember what it was...

Cornwall is not a true ally, but he is the furthest thing from the worst guy out there. He is the main reason things are not worse. If not for him, things like what happened to Maria would be happening to the elves too. Life would be much worse for all of them. A real world example would be Al Jolson. He spent much of his life helping to promote black actors, and is the reason the first black show appeared on Broadway. On the other hand, he also performed in blackface, and perpetuated a number of stereotypes. Point is, whole we might consider a lot of what he did as racist, he did a lot for the cause, and we would not be in the same place without him.

What I mean by ground up, is that we need to not only fill as many other seats as possible, but also trying to change the mind of the public, with media, like tv shows and movies that show elves in a positive way, humanize them, as it were.

IDK, I said it all better before, and I am not sure what I forgot, and what I said before...

I hate when that happens.

This is where the problem lies with a ground up campaign as well. If they are liable to just get rid of slaves as soon as they think they are threatened, both top down and ground up would alert them before they could be taken down. An all at once approach, both taking down the top with one team and taking down the bottom with another, would give no warning to either. Nia could handle the bottom and Kali the top, I would say using a covert operation on the Nia side and a publicly known political campaign on the Kali side. The bottom would have no way to know they were already doomed and the top would be unaware of what is going on because of the covert operation slowly taking down anyone who could report in.

I'm not so sure of using their usual tactics as a last resort. Who says that taking these guys down any other way wouldn't just result in them popping back up somewhere we can't touch them. As for any connection, this is another benefit of a covert operation, the only way they know we were involved is if we say we were, like how covert operations by US special forces are rarely even known about and the ones that do become known were intentionally announced after they had taken place.

Cornwall is still public enemy number one, it was because he didn't go far enough that Maria suffered.

Humanizing the elves will work on those who are in favor of slavery, but that also aren't in favor of the way things were. The people who called for the reforms are a prime example of this type. For those who are on the far end, the pro-slave extremists, for lack of a better term, this will not work. The elves will always be less than dirt to them and, as long as they are the majority, we cannot get someone into power to change the others' minds. The extremists would have to be dealt with first, starting with those not in power.

 

[ankhtar]

I would have said lure the guy into a dark alley by saying there's a slave hiding there, then shiv him with the wrong end of a rusty spoon, but after reading all this, my solution feels lackluster somehow.

 

[TheDevian]

I hate when that happens.

This is where the problem lies with a ground up campaign as well. If they are liable to just get rid of slaves as soon as they think they are threatened, both top down and ground up would alert them before they could be taken down. An all at once approach, both taking down the top with one team and taking down the bottom with another, would give no warning to either. Nia could handle the bottom and Kali the top, I would say using a covert operation on the Nia side and a publicly known political campaign on the Kali side. The bottom would have no way to know they were already doomed and the top would be unaware of what is going on because of the covert operation slowly taking down anyone who could report in.

I'm not so sure of using their usual tactics as a last resort. Who says that taking these guys down any other way wouldn't just result in them popping back up somewhere we can't touch them. As for any connection, this is another benefit of a covert operation, the only way they know we were involved is if we say we were, like how covert operations by US special forces are rarely even known about and the ones that do become known were intentionally announced after they had taken place.

Cornwall is still public enemy number one, it was because he didn't go far enough that Maria suffered.

Humanizing the elves will work on those who are in favor of slavery, but that also aren't in favor of the way things were. The people who called for the reforms are a prime example of this type. For those who are on the far end, the pro-slave extremists, for lack of a better term, this will not work. The elves will always be less than dirt to them and, as long as they are the majority, we cannot get someone into power to change the others' minds. The extremists would have to be dealt with first, starting with those not in power.

I am not sure what you mean there. Why would anyone need to get rid of slaves here? They are not illegal yet.

What I was talking about there is to start convincing the general population that slavery is wrong and that elves are people too, as well as campaigning to replace the lower government officials with people on our side, like governors, senators, mayors, and so on.

It depends on what targets we are talking about, and why we are after them, if we just want to remove them from office, that is one thing, if we want to stop them from abusing elves (if they are), that is another story. I would try to avoid violence though, if the situation doesn't merit it, if we just want someone out of office, killing them or something isn't the really the best way to go...

Not going far enough helping the elves makes him worse than someone who is working against him to make things worse? Like I said, we can't let our emotions get the better of us, there are far worse people out there, and he is our best 'inside' contact. In politics, sometimes, you have to work with people you don't like to get things done. It's just not practical to take him out first, if nothing else, consider the old saying, save the best for last. lol

Humanizing the elves and half elves would help sway the public, and the public will help convince their representatives. You can move the ones who think slavery is a necessary evil to thinking that it's not okay at all, you convince the ones who think they are barely animals that they are people too, and so on.

Yeah, violence against those like the ones who raided the desert elves, rapists, and other extremists is more than deserving, especially the ones operating outside the law.

 

[alex2011]

I would have said lure the guy into a dark alley by saying there's a slave hiding there, then shiv him with the wrong end of a rusty spoon, but after reading all this, my solution feels lackluster somehow.

That would suffice assuming none of the others learn that their numbers are slowing being diminished. I would be tempted to either do this or, the next time they are all gathered in one place, pull a Wolf's Lair type attack. This would probably be something Nia would be in favor of, she's already practically advocating for all out war on the pro-slave side of Syl'anar. (For reference, the Wolf's Lair was Hitler's headquarters for the campaign against the Soviet Union. This headquarters was bombed using a suitcase full of explosives placed under a table by one of several German army officers conspiring to eliminate him to gain control of the country and seek peace with the western allies, likely because they already knew what the eastern allies would do since the Soviets rarely ever took prisoners and weren't against mistreatment of the ones they did. The attempt failed, leading to over 7,000 arrests, a majority of which resulted in executions. This is the single most notable attempt against Hitler)

I am not sure what you mean there. Why would anyone need to get rid of slaves here? They are not illegal yet.

What I was talking about there is to start convincing the general population that slavery is wrong and that elves are people too, as well as campaigning to replace the lower government officials with people on our side, like governors, senators, mayors, and so on.

It depends on what targets we are talking about, and why we are after them, if we just want to remove them from office, that is one thing, if we want to stop them from abusing elves (if they are), that is another story. I would try to avoid violence though, if the situation doesn't merit it, if we just want someone out of office, killing them or something isn't the really the best way to go...

Not going far enough helping the elves makes him worse than someone who is working against him to make things worse? Like I said, we can't let our emotions get the better of us, there are far worse people out there, and he is our best 'inside' contact. In politics, sometimes, you have to work with people you don't like to get things done. It's just not practical to take him out first, if nothing else, consider the old saying, save the best for last. lol

Humanizing the elves and half elves would help sway the public, and the public will help convince their representatives. You can move the ones who think slavery is a necessary evil to thinking that it's not okay at all, you convince the ones who think they are barely animals that they are people too, and so on.

Yeah, violence against those like the ones who raided the desert elves, rapists, and other extremists is more than deserving, especially the ones operating outside the law.

I meant that in response to this:

otherwise all the people who want to keep slaves, will just get rid of them

Convincing will work as long as the people aren't entirely set on slavery, which is the problem with the extreme side of the slave trade, they won't want to give up slavery and will likely do anything to keep it or to do the elves one last wrong if there is no way they will get to continue as they are now, a wrong that, depending on method, may be irreversible and that the elves cannot be saved from or recovered from after. These people are in the majority, so getting anyone that they don't agree with into office is going to be near impossible unless they are dealt with.

Violence may not be avoidable, especially with the worst offenders or if Nia ever gets directly involved.

No, not going far enough makes him no better than he would be by doing nothing at all. The only difference is he saved himself from losing his position of power. I never said take him out first, just to take him out. Taking him out first would be a top down approach, which we've already established won't work. Taking him out while simultaneously targeting everyone else, however, will as that gives nobody time to make themselves scarce.

Humanizing the elves would help to convince the minority that isn't fully invested in the slave trade as it was prior to the reforms. The ones who wanted the reforms, and by extension threatened Cornwall's power, are among this group. They would be much easier to convince if convincing the extreme side is even possible.

Definitely would agree on violence against the people who wronged the desert elves. Anyone working outside the law, whether their actions are extralegal, this being a term often associated with actions taken by special forces, or just outright illegal, have already proven too dangerous to the elf population. I'd just give them to Nia and let her do what she wants, no restrictions.

 

[TheDevian]

That would suffice assuming none of the others learn that their numbers are slowing being diminished. I would be tempted to either do this or, the next time they are all gathered in one place, pull a Wolf's Lair type attack. This would probably be something Nia would be in favor of, she's already practically advocating for all out war on the pro-slave side of Syl'anar. (For reference, the Wolf's Lair was Hitler's headquarters for the campaign against the Soviet Union. This headquarters was bombed using a suitcase full of explosives placed under a table by one of several German army officers conspiring to eliminate him to gain control of the country and seek peace with the western allies, likely because they already knew what the eastern allies would do since the Soviets rarely ever took prisoners and weren't against mistreatment of the ones they did. The attempt failed, leading to over 7,000 arrests, a majority of which resulted in executions. This is the single most notable attempt against Hitler)


I meant that in response to this:


Convincing will work as long as the people aren't entirely set on slavery, which is the problem with the extreme side of the slave trade, they won't want to give up slavery and will likely do anything to keep it or to do the elves one last wrong if there is no way they will get to continue as they are now, a wrong that, depending on method, may be irreversible and that the elves cannot be saved from or recovered from after. These people are in the majority, so getting anyone that they don't agree with into office is going to be near impossible unless they are dealt with.

Violence may not be avoidable, especially with the worst offenders or if Nia ever gets directly involved.

No, not going far enough makes him no better than he would be by doing nothing at all. The only difference is he saved himself from losing his position of power. I never said take him out first, just to take him out. Taking him out first would be a top down approach, which we've already established won't work. Taking him out while simultaneously targeting everyone else, however, will as that gives nobody time to make themselves scarce.

Humanizing the elves would help to convince the minority that isn't fully invested in the slave trade as it was prior to the reforms. The ones who wanted the reforms, and by extension threatened Cornwall's power, are among this group. They would be much easier to convince if convincing the extreme side is even possible.

Definitely would agree on violence against the people who wronged the desert elves. Anyone working outside the law, whether their actions are extralegal, this being a term often associated with actions taken by special forces, or just outright illegal, have already proven too dangerous to the elf population. I'd just give them to Nia and let her do what she wants, no restrictions.

I see, me screwing up due to the lost post, sorry about that, I have no idea what I meant there. Losing that post really got to me, completely derailed my thought process... =/

People who support slavery are in favor of it, until they are not. It's the same with any issue, you just have to show them that they are wrong about elves being less than human. You many never convince everyone, but like with any other issue, media can go a long way toward shaping the public opinion.

No, but again, that is why we save that for last resorts, and keep it on the down low, and publicly condemn such actions.

So, you are saying that someone helping some is the same as someone who doesn't help at all, or worse, a total sadist? I really don't get this line of thought, you are letting your emotions get the better of you.

You don't have to convince people are are already against slavery, you have to convince the rest. You have to slowly move everyone's opinions a bit at a time. Nothing like this will ever come quickly, unless there is war.

Nia/Sui alone is not going to be enough to take out private militias. She is going to need more help.

 

[hezmerbevan]

Did you pick it up (Check for mail) from the front door?

I guess I did, I must have. I couldn't give it to her as with other outfits. There is no option for her to wear it while making photos nor doing other stuff with her.

 

[Kulman]

So runey takes a month off after every update? Man I would love 4 months holiday per year.

 

[TheDevian]

So runey takes a month off after every update? Man I would love 4 months holiday per year.

Add up your weekends and evenings, add your actual vacation time and you just might get it. Most devs tend to work more than 8 hours a day, and 5 days a week.
You also have to consider that his 'month off' can include planning ahead and bug fixing the last one.