noname777

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Even someone like Jack from Wicked Choices that has experience in Comics and Renderosity and has published a book before was surprised and got it wrong with the amount of time that a game like these take. Especially when you want to deliver quality.
I miss this game too. More and more games I'm interested in are being abandoned, have huge delays between updates or are following a path that doesn't appeal to me.
For example:
  • Dual Family - I can't say it's a bad game. I stopped playing it when it turned out that the old save does not work after an update. Everybody know the current situation.
  • View of family - It promised to be good at the beginning, but later I had mixed feelings. Again, broken saves and long time to wait for next update turned me off.
  • Two Sides - Remake of the remake, with more bugs than the original game ever has. I see improvement in quality, but the long wait time kills the desire to play for me.
  • Wicked choices - Long time to wait...
  • Urban Voyeur - Great game, but you have to wait several months for an update. To be honest, I no longer have the strength to go through the game after each update to discover all new threads.
  • The Story Of The Survival Of John Smith - From the beginning I had mixed feelings, but generally I liked this game. It was abandoned before I finished it.
  • Big Brother - Same as above.
  • Gates Motel - I liked the first release, but was disappointed by the first update, where MC turned into a complete weirdo.
  • Pandora's Box - I had mixed feelings after the update because of forced NTR/rape scene.
  • Latest Tlaero's game - To hard for me. :p OK, to be honest, I didn't like the idea of splitting games into chapters, knowing how demanding her games are.
There are even more games I almost forgot because of the lack of updates.
 
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Akamari

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I wouldn't want Heavy Five to end up this way. Remakes in such games are not good for developers or players. Especially when they start before the game is finished, de facto inhibiting the whole development process.
That's not what Notty is doing. This is a remaster, not a remake. The game mechanics, the story, the characters, the engine...none of it is changed. The game plays the same. It's only the renders that get visually improved because Notty has gained experience and with a better card she doesn't have to do compromises she had to do earlier. There is a big difference between Chapter One and Chapter Four in terms of render quality.

There is also a matter of consistency as the station gets much better visual design. You can't have it look shabby in Chapters Two and Three, and then all nice and clean in Chapter Four. Well, you can, but it could disrupt the immersion.

According to the original plan, we should see the final chapter next month. For the revised plan it was April 2020. Now we know that the 4th chapter will be released at the earliest in October and the whole game not before 2021.
Do the math please. With two months per chapter it's summer or fall of 2020 for the finished game.

The Chapter production has always been around six weeks. Both Chapter Three and Four have extraordinary circumstances causing the release to take longer.

Episodic releases are not for everyone. There are games where I just prefer to get the game when it's finished. For example I'm waiting for Episode 5 of Life is Strange 2 to drop before picking it up, so that I can play it without waiting. There is nothing wrong in doing the same with Heavy Five. But the difference (aside from a studio vs single dev) is that LiS 2 has the funding, so it can be sold the usual way, while H5 has to rely on crowdfunding to reach it's potential. It's up to you to choose an active role or a passive one.
 
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noname777

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Do the math please. With two months per chapter it's summer or fall of 2020 for the finished game.
That is what I am doing right now. Three months per chapter will give us the final release in mid 2021.
Oct 2019 - Chapter 4
Jan 2020 - Chapter 5
Apr 2020 - Chapter 6
Jul 2020 - Chapter 7
Oct 2020 - Chapter 8
Jan 2021 - Chapter 9
Apr 2021 - Chapter 10
Jul 2021 - Additional paths, female MC

The Chapter production has always been around six weeks. Both Chapter Three and Four have extraordinary circumstances causing the release to take longer.
It isn't is just 6 weeks, because we always have some delays.

Episodic releases are not for everyone. There are games where I just prefer to get the game when it's finished. For example I'm waiting for Episode 5 of Life is Strange 2 to drop before picking it up, so that I can play it without waiting. There is nothing bad in doing the same with Heavy Five. But the difference (aside from a studio vs single dev) is that LiS 2 has the funding, so it can be sold the usual way, while H5 has to rely on crowdfunding to reach it's potential. It's up to you to choose an active role or a passive one.
You're right, I prefer finished games instead of episodic ones. But it's not like I reject them completely. For example, I liked Chloe18. But there we had updates every month for a long time.
 
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DA22

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That is what I am doing right now. Three months per chapter will give us the final release in mid 2021.
Oct 2019 - Chapter 4
Jan 2020 - Chapter 5
Apr 2020 - Chapter 6
Jul 2020 - Chapter 7
Oct 2020 - Chapter 8
Jan 2021 - Chapter 9
Apr 2021 - Chapter 10
Jul 2021 - Additional paths, female MC


It isn't is just 6 weeks, because we always have some delays.


You're right, I prefer finished games instead of episodic ones. But it's not like I reject them completely. For example, I liked Chloe18. But there we had updates every month for a long time.
Times and expected render quality and wish for animations has changed though, one could blame philly and a few other devs for that. :p Unfortunately those do take time though and you see that actually none of the stronger devs around here is able to do monthly updates anymore, unless they do very small updates. Well Jack also has had some serious shit hitting the fan combined with the realization he was missing a part of the story he wanted to tell. It will come when it is ready, but yeah he is also busy working on how he will be able to speed up process in the future since he underestimated the workload.

Edit: Considering the delays, yeah the fact Notty is a bit of a perfectionist will make some extra delays quite likely now and in the future. One might hope she will get better at letting go when the work is ready, but no guarantees of that. :p
 
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Akamari

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That is what I am doing right now. Three months per chapter
*sighs* Two months. I feel like I'm in an endless loop of repeating myself. Chapter Four is finished. It could have been released last week. That means it would had been 7 weeks between releases if Notty had not decided to remaster.

What makes you think it will be three months regularly? It doesn't make sense.

It isn't is just 6 weeks, because we always have some delays.
I was talking about production time. I give it two months to account for testing, fixing and overcoming any challenges that might appear.
 

Akamari

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Edit: Considering the delays, yeah the fact Notty is a bit of a perfectionist will make some extra delays quite likely now and in the future. One might hope she will get better at letting go when the work is ready, but no guarantees of that. :p
No release dates, no delays. She's an ambitious lass (yet reasonable, just look at how much stuff gets shuffled between chapters) and I always want to play what she wants us to play. The fact that she can make a decision to resist the pressure and work out the quirks even when it would make more sense to rush the release from a business standpoint is something I find very appealing and I hope that will never change.
 

noname777

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*sighs* Two months. I feel like I'm in an endless loop of repeating myself. Chapter Four is finished. It could have been released last week. That means it would had been 7 weeks between releases if Notty had not decided to remaster.
Yeah, chapter 4 is "finished", but won't be released anyway. Just like Part X of Dual Family was "coming soon" in June.
Again, I am not saying that Nottravis is a scammer, but H5 always has some delays. Regardless of the reasons and how much Nottravis tries to be a good producer, they still occur.

What makes you think it will be three months regularly? It doesn't make sense.
She failed to reach any deadline. Sorry Nottravis, but that's how it looks like. Anyway, what makes you think that it will change suddenly?

In future chapters there will probably be more sex scenes, so there will be animations that are more demanding.
What's more, there will be more and more paths that need to be done, so the chapters will contain similar content for each thread. However, it takes time to do this.

I was talking about production time. I give it two months to account for testing, fixing and overcoming any challenges that might appear.
If two months were enough, then we would already have chapter 5 released.
Jan 2019 - Chapter 1
Mar 2019 - Chapter 2
May 2019 - Chapter 3
Jul 2019 - Chapter 4
Sep 2019 - Chapter 5
 

DA22

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Yeah, chapter 4 is "finished", but won't be released anyway. Just like Part X of Dual Family was "coming soon" in June.
Again, I am not saying that Nottravis is a scammer, but H5 always has some delays. Regardless of the reasons and how much Nottravis tries to be a good producer, they still occur.


She failed to reach any deadline. Sorry Nottravis, but that's how it looks like. Anyway, what makes you think that it will change suddenly?

In future chapters there will probably be more sex scenes, so there will be animations that are more demanding.
What's more, there will be more and more paths that need to be done, so the chapters will contain similar content for each thread. However, it takes time to do this.


If two months were enough, then we would already have chapter 5 released.
Jan 2019 - Chapter 1
Mar 2019 - Chapter 2
May 2019 - Chapter 3
Jul 2019 - Chapter 4
Sep 2019 - Chapter 5
Both yours and Akamari's standpoints are fair enough. For me, like I said before the quality of the work and Notty's openness is good enough that I will accept the good with the bad and want to support this game, that is why I upped my pledge from USD 5 to USD 15 yesterday, knowing full well that the delay was a certainty to show that support. Now everyone has to draw his or her own conclusions and is free to give his/her/its own opinion and Notty also asked for this, but in the end it is Notty who is the driving force behind this game in all her good, great and slightly less perfect facets whatever we say. :p
 

Akamari

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Yeah, chapter 4 is "finished", but won't be released anyway.
Maybe you can consider the why not of it? Notty wrote quite lengthy posts about that.

She failed to reach any deadline. Sorry Nottravis, but that's how it looks like. Anyway, what makes you think that it will change suddenly?
There are no deadlines. Estimates are not deadlines.

In future chapters there will probably be more sex scenes, so there will be animations that are more demanding.
There won't be animations. There are six sex scenes in Chapter Four.

What's more, there will be more and more paths that need to be done, so the chapters will contain similar content for each thread. However, it takes time to do this.
Chapters Three and Four are twice as big as Chapter One (yet still took less than two months to make). Growth is to be expected as Notty upgrades her rig.

If two months were enough, then we would already have chapter 5 released.
Jan 2019 - Chapter 1
Mar 2019 - Chapter 2
Chapter Two was released in mid February, six weeks after Chapter One.

As I said before, you should take the circumstances into account.
 

DA22

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Maybe you can consider the why not of it? Notty wrote quite lengthy posts about that.


There are no deadlines. Estimates are not deadlines.


There won't be animations. There are six sex scenes in Chapter Four.


Chapters Three and Four are twice as big as Chapter One (yet still took less than two months to make). Growth is to be expected as Notty upgrades her rig.


Chapter Two was released in mid February, six weeks after Chapter One.

As I said before, you should take the circumstances into account.
Well the reason not to release chapter 4 already to her patrons unfortunately does make sense and I am pretty sure indeed it would leak and as such would undermine one of the main reasons for the upgrading of the chapters, whether Notty is right in her assumptions on that or not. :p. Sad but true.
 

noname777

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Maybe you can consider the why not of it? Notty wrote quite lengthy posts about that.
I will say it again: She overestimated her performance and/or is focused too much on the details. And so it is every time.

There are no deadlines. Estimates are not deadlines.
Would you say the same in the Dual Family thread?
Yes, I know, Notty refunds the money. But delays are delays.

There won't be animations. There are six sex scenes in Chapter Four.
If I good remember, at the begging she opted for animations, and later she gave up, because there are time consuming. She may still change her mind several times.

Chapters Three and Four are twice as big as Chapter One (yet still took less than two months to make). Growth is to be expected as Notty upgrades her rig.
And more waiting time is expected than at the beginning.

Chapter Two was released in mid February, six weeks after Chapter One.
And as you said, chapter size increases with each update. It can therefore be expected that the work will take more time.

As I said before, you should take the circumstances into account.
I'm doing it right now. And I assume that if there is such a delay at the beginning, then there will be even more in the future.
 
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noname777

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I still think our pal noname is blowing shit out of proportion. It's not like Notty has disappeared for months with that sweet patreon money to get licked by gogo boys while people wait for her game.

S'all good, man.
I never accused her of milking her patreons.
I'm just saying that she made a bad estimate of the time needed to release the chapter. It won't be one month, but rather three months.
 
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TomberryDude

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I never accused her of milking her patreons.
I'm just saying that she made a bad estimate of the time needed to release the chapter. It won't be one month, but rather three months.
You're talking like you know she will scam people or be incompetent or something. I guess that's your right but I disagree. I think that's a bad outlook to have.
 

noname777

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Again, this is not the same situation at all, she came to us and asked us which we would prefer, and we almost unanimously said delay it, make it perfect.
There will always be some supporters, no matter what you do.
He is sharring his vacation with those poor patreons look man i know i promissed you a new update but here is my vacation pictures.. :LOL:
And his patreons reaction dont worry man enjoy your free year of vacation, we will still support you.. :whistle: Keep those sweat ass vacation pictures going, we will wait for that 5 minute update when it is finally released..

(y) Maybe we will get a Gumdrops Christmass special. You just need to wait 5 more month..:whistle:

Beginning of next year sorry man i got some mental health issue going this year i cant release anything but maybe you will get some new vacation pictures. This will keep my patreons at bay for another year lazing down doing nothing.. Man life as developer is really hard these days.
So we can say that Gumdrop's patrons asked him to not overwork and enjoy life. So everyone should be happy with such situation, right? ;)
 
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Akamari

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I'm doing it right now. And I assume that if there is such a delay at the beginning, then there will be even more in the future.
Respectfully, you are not considering the right circumstances.

Why did Chapter Three took longer than two months? Because of her illness. (-> extraordinary circumstance)
Why does Chapter Four take longer than two months? Because of the remaster of the earlier Chapters. (-> extraordinary circumstance)
Why would Chapter Five or any future Chapter take longer than two months if there are no extraordinary circumstances?

I'd understand you having doubts, but I don't consider the judgements you are making to be fair.

It won't be one month, but rather three months.
Two months.
 

Sinphil

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I miss this game too. More and more games I'm interested in are being abandoned, have huge delays between updates or are following a path that doesn't appeal to me.
For example:
  • Dual Family - I can't say it's a bad game. I stopped playing it when it turned out that the old save does not work after an update. Everybody know the current situation.
  • View of family - It promised to be good at the beginning, but later I had mixed feelings. Again, broken saves and long time to wait for next update turned me off.
  • Two Sides - Remake of the remake, with more bugs than the original game ever has. I see improvement in quality, but the long wait time kills the desire to play for me.
  • Wicked choices - Long time to wait...
  • Urban Voyeur - Great game, but you have to wait several months for an update. To be honest, I no longer have the strength to go through the game after each update to discover all new threads.
  • The Story Of The Survival Of John Smith - From the beginning I had mixed feelings, but generally I liked this game. It was abandoned before I finished it.
  • Big Brother - Same as above.
  • Gates Motel - I liked the first release, but was disappointed by the first update, where MC turned into a complete weirdo.
  • Pandora's Box - I had mixed feelings after the update because of forced NTR/rape scene.
  • Latest Tlaero's game - To hard for me. :p OK, to be honest, I didn't like the idea of splitting games into chapters, knowing how demanding her games are.
There are even more games I almost forgot because of the lack of updates.
I have 3 folders of games based on update frequency and size. The slow I check every 3 to 6 month, the average I check every month to 3 months and the fast I check monthly. All my favourite games I support on Patreon are in the slow folder. I stiil dont have time to keep up with all games here and am always having to drop games to make room for newer discoveries.

For me graphic quality is not important but I never going to begrudge a developer wanting to polish their game, for me that shows they invested in their art and really care about what they doing.
 

Huitieme

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Yeah, chapter 4 is "finished", but won't be released anyway. Just like Part X of Dual Family was "coming soon" in June.
Again, I am not saying that Nottravis is a scammer, but H5 always has some delays. Regardless of the reasons and how much Nottravis tries to be a good producer, they still occur.
Chapter 4 IS finished, but the decision to release it, as you know, has been delayed in order for the remaster to be available to newcomers. It might be a staple in many industries to favour new clients to the detriment of the already acquired ones, but let's keep in mind that what we have here is a single dev releasing pre-alpha of a game. Since the only real financing comes from the number of satisfied "clients", it makes sense to sweep for new ones.

She failed to reach any deadline. Sorry Nottravis, but that's how it looks like. Anyway, what makes you think that it will change suddenly?
I would agree with you, once again, if what we call deadlines here weren't just mostly estimations. On this point, though, I'd prefer there wouldn't be hard dates ever, since it can lead to expectations not met. The new release for a game I adore should have come out recently, but the dev underestimated his testing needs and had to delay for a few days even after having announced a hard date. Hard dates only serve to frustrate people :/

In future chapters there will probably be more sex scenes, so there will be animations that are more demanding.
What's more, there will be more and more paths that need to be done, so the chapters will contain similar content for each thread. However, it takes time to do this.
There will be no animation. I know you said Notty might change her mind... And yes, she might. Nothing we could do about it. But I choose to believe she won't.

If two months were enough, then we would already have chapter 5 released.
Jan 2019 - Chapter 1
Mar 2019 - Chapter 2
May 2019 - Chapter 3
Jul 2019 - Chapter 4
Sep 2019 - Chapter 5
This is, unfortunately, the sad reality. But as you've been reminded in the thread, sometimes, shit happens extraordinary circumstances happen. I, like you, would love to be playing chapter 5 now, but that's not the way it is.

So we can say that Gumdrop's patrons asked him to not overwork and enjoy life. So everyone should be happy with such situation, right? ;)
I find your fascination with comparing Nottravis to Gumdrop quite disturbing, especially since we saw it struck a nerve. To me, it sounds like you're criticizing one dev team because another one is scamming people. Do you think CD Project and EA are the same because CD Project first announced Witcher 3 in February but it was launched in June? And to keep that analogy open, once it was launched, would you say it prevented millions of players to enjoy it?

To me, once the game is indeed finished, looking back, it doesn't matter if there was delay between chapters. But it does matter that the game be internally consistent, which is what Notty's working on right now.

I have 3 folders of games based on update frequency and size. The slow I check every 3 to 6 month, the average I check every month to 3 months and the fast I check monthly. All my favourite games I support on Patreon are in the slow folder. I stiil dont have time to keep up with all games here and am always having to drop games to make room for newer discoveries.

For me graphic quality is not important but I never going to begrudge a developer wanting to polish their game, for me that shows they invested in their art and really care about what they doing.
Graphic quality may not matter to you (or to me, to be honest), but it does matter to the one making the game. If I read a book, I may not give a fuck about punctuation or typo, but I'd rather the writer took the time to fix them. And if I do write one, I'll sure as fuck make certain that there aren't any. This is also called respect for the fanbase. The same applies here. Of course, it would be better for the book/game to be launched earlier, but a finished rounded up product will always be better.

One way or another, Notty's choice would have alienated a part of her player base. So if whatever the choice you make, people are discontent, go with the choice that at least makes you feel better. It was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

tl;dr Most of us here support Notty, and those like you who don't like her choices are at least intelligent enough not to bitch and whine. Instead, you're exposing your arguments clearly, and that's a victory in itself as well.
 
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