VN Ren'Py Abandoned Heir Apparent [v.0.02] [SilkandMilkProductions]

3.80 star(s) 46 Votes

lordfridge9

Emperor of Universe 7
Donor
Aug 24, 2017
3,269
3,879
Second try, huh? Well the renders are great and while the wincest based story is the most common (and can be good if done right) thing and is appreciated, this type of "goal-setting" is massively off putting. Even if the developer has a point
 

Xumeey

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
1,194
2,515
Lol. The problem is that he DEMANDS the money. He doesn't even ask for it, he doesn't let interests grow, he just demands, "give me x amount of money, or I'll stop working." And that is not how it works.
The people here in defence of him miss one important point, no one here is saying he doesn't DESERVE to get paid for his work adequately, the problem is you can't FORCE people to support you to what you think is an adequate level.
Yes, some devs start out earning a lot of money, and I'll be the first one to admit, that sadly often the amount of money someone gets, is in no way related to the actual quality of writing and art, but that's the way it is. Some people are just really good at giving enough people exactly what they want in a way that makes them want to pay for it.



The scope in general, there were so many levels of story in that game, a storyline surrounding sister and stepsister, that whole dream/vampire thing in the past, the mystery of the (probably) vampires in the present and how it relates to the past.
And update after update came, and you didn't come any closer to really understanding what was going on there.
Others have also mentioned the many choices, as a fan of Where The Heart Is, I saw first hand, what having many choices will lead to, there's a dedicated team, with a firm hand at their routes and still they flay about with the enormous amount of branching paths. Primal Instinct seemed to have way more important choices (that did not just grant you one point affection or lust or not) than WTHI had in the first few updates, where was this going to lead?
Also, the feeling that you constantly had to make the right decisions to fend off NTR, was of course a worrying sign for all but the NTR fans, as you pointed out yourself.

All in all, there were many understandable reasons why the previous game didn't get the support the dev hoped for and maybe deserved. This one, seeming to have a more generic storyline, might have better chances, but still the money won't just come because he feels he deserves it, and given that he already abandoned a game and already threatens this one with abandonment, who in his right mind would go and risk money on that?
I sure won't.

I have only a small amount of money each month to support creators on patreon, I usually support devs or artists who don't earn thousands of dollars a month, because to them even my small contribution is better than none, and they deserve it.
There are devs who worked on games for many years for only between 100-200 bucks a month of support, and they struggle with justifying the time and effort they pour into their game, and getting so little for it, but they stick to it, because they love what they are doing, the game is their baby, their outlet, their creation.
And many of them are not as talented as silkandmilk, the renders aren't as fantastic, sometimes English isn't their first language, and it shows in the writing, the stories are all over the place etc.., but I still want to support them, because you just see their love for what they are doing and their willingness to continue even with barely any reward, outside the satisfaction of people liking what they are doing, even if they don't pay for it.
For me, that is what is missing with the dev here, I'm not saying he doesn't love what he is doing, but his heart can't be in it that much, because money is definitely his primary motivation, because if he doesn't get it, he will just drop the game.
Nicely put
 
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Smarmint

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2019
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Well, since my post was deleted, I guess because I mentioned the dev and his previous game, which will now go unmentioned (even though it is shown on the OP), I will try to make my very valid point about this game, and its development.

Heir Apparent looks like a great game, I had already clicked download, and then I looked at the name of the dev. I thought to myself, "It was a shame the last game was abandoned, but maybe I should give him another chance. Maybe he just didn't like where the last story was going and wanted to try something new that might get more fans." But then I saw what he has posted on his page for Heir Apparent, and this gives me grave misgivings that this game will ever be completed, or even make it to update 0.02.

The renders look great, the story seems interesting, though not incredibly original, but should we completely ignore the fact that the dev is saying that if I get $300 i will work 15 days, if he gets less, he will work fewer days, and that even at full funding that his maximum capacity is 180 renders a month, which is quite low? Then looking at his project goals, his goal is $1,200 a month before he agrees to work on version 0.02. Hmm. That is asking quite a lot for a dev with a track record of abandoning his last game, and after only a single short update.

All devs want to make money, to support their games' development, but to state clearly on the Heir Apparent page, at the beginning that the game will be abandoned at version 0.01 if he doesn't make $1,200 a month, that it will be abandoned at version 0.02 if he doesn't make $1,600 a month, and that it will be abandoned at version 0.03 if he doesn't make $2,000 a month, is the wrong message to send to his fans and potential donors.

So as a player, and a potential donor, as I am to all the games I play here, how should I consider this statement from the dev himself about his plans (or not) for Heir Apparent?

I always go to bat for devs here, and I support quite a few devs here that are working on games that are very good, but I think underappreciated, where I know the dev really needs the support. Mainly to show my appreciation, and encourage them to continue. I even supported this devs last game for awhile, because I thought it was quite good, had an original story, and intriguing characters, and great dialog.

But with Heir Apparent, I can't approve of the devs worsening bad attitude. It would be different if he turned over a new leaf with Heir Apparent, versus his last game, but he has doubled-down on entitlement. Even despite the fact that it makes the dev sound bad, on a strictly transactional basis, people support devs on Patreon because they want to show support to a dev, where they like their work, and that they hope that with their contribution, the game will eventially be completed. The devs own statements, with Heir Apparent, shows that he is going to hold the development of the game hostage until he gets a truly large monthly contribution. If he doesn't hit the target? Well say goodbye to Heir Apparant, and for all the financial contributors that have supported the dev, "so long".

To be a successful game project, the dev needs to have the attitude that they love what they are doing, that they are happy for any support they can get, and that they are committed to developing the game, but if they get more support, they can develop their game quicker, create more detailed renders, etc, etc. Not hold the game hostage until he hits an ever increasing target each month.

Lol. The problem is that he DEMANDS the money. He doesn't even ask for it, he doesn't let interests grow, he just demands, "give me x amount of money, or I'll stop working." And that is not how it works.
Exactly.
 
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Cronolento

Member
Sep 17, 2017
210
148
Real amazing renders and game, but hey, what a way to start a project... Is really hard to support something when you get a warning since 1st release that it could be abandoned if he doesn't receive right away what he wants...

It seems to me that, while other developers love their products and try hard to continue with them, this one cares only about support and gives an ultimatum...on the first release!

I really like this game much more than the first one, but I doubt very much I would like to give my money to someone that, since day one, is threatenning with leaving the project. To be honest not a good way to motivate investors on anything, since tomorrow it could be abandon. If he really trust in his product, which is for me a great product, he should believe in it, give some assurance to his investors and show some love for the project, not only for the money. Some now big projects had to launch, in many cases, from 2 to 3 updates for people to start trusting, understanding and seeing where the games were going to and start to supporting it. A lot of this developers worried more about people to get to know their games, play them (in many cases giving it for free) and get people to share it for lore people to know it than chase only money, which of course, we understand is important for the development process.

I went to dev patreon page to support him and know more about him (without knowing at first that I had already played his first game) but after reading his way to bring updates and position, even when I think is a great game with beautiiiiful design and that had a lot of potential, I'll keep supporting another developers, since this one doesn't give any trust on any investment.

Greaaaat game for me, very bad communication and way to start.
 

RoadWulf

Forum Fanatic
Nov 18, 2018
4,026
8,036
Yup, I always find it hilarious when Devs think they can blackmail their players into paying more. You aren't some Triple A game with DLC and Microtransactions. Holding out development time won't work when your player base has no faith in you to complete something.

The game looks good so far, but I'm not going to make any kind of personal investment in it because instead of asking the players to forgive you for all your failures, you blame them for your failure and tell them to do better. To the 30 or so Patrons who stuck with you, congrats to them for not giving up and I'm sorry he doesn't feel like you're enough to give it his all.
 

anon1580

Newbie
Oct 6, 2020
23
3
Its a stupid move. If you have a great game people start supporting you. For a great amount of time devs like g28 and orborigin didn't make any great. They kept going and actually ghen they got decent money for their work.
 
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Cronolento

Member
Sep 17, 2017
210
148
It only shows, sadly, he's not working on this because he believes in it or like to produce this games, but for the money. If you believe in your work, and focus on make something really good, consequences, which are success and money, come along.

His attitude is like he's doing us a favor producing his material. Sad, because I think his work is great, but the attitude....not that much.
 
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Wildbill5150

Active Member
Oct 6, 2018
805
893
Game is lovely but I would need to know what his planned content will be and if some of that content will be avoidable or not before I would feel comfortable giving money?

I'm not into giving my money away just to end up with certain content being forced just my opinion
There was a very real threat of that content in his last game but It did appear as though that content could be avoided without penalty but game ended before knowing for sure so I would need to know planned content first.

Thank you for your time
 

sLee13

New Member
Aug 8, 2020
10
9
I think it's easy to see the art/visuals stand up on their own being amazing. But the story is drawing me in. I took the latter chose with winter. And without spoilers i was nearly shocked with that little tidbit. The story seems like its going to have some very deep moments. So i can't wait to see/read more.
 

BarbarrossaNA

Active Member
Sep 10, 2019
935
1,589
Loved the renders of the last game.. love the renders of this game. Wasn't a fan of the last game.. I am a fan of this one and do believe this story has a shot to make the DEV some money. Some say the DEV isn't all peaches and cream and 'makes demands/threats' to us, the consumers/possible fans of his work. AND while I do think You can catch more Bees with Honey than with Vinegar. I understand where he is coming from. This is a project/game that he is putting his talent/skills and time into for financial gain. So if you are interested in this game feel free to drop some patreon on the man. Hopefully he hasn't burned to many bridges behind him yet because I really would like to see where this one goes.

The talent is there.. and in my opinion I do think this one has the opportunity to gather in a wider audience than the last one. Good luck.
 

OldMoonSong

Member
Jun 2, 2018
197
1,242
I was a patron for a good portion of the development of his previous game.

I understand where he's coming from. Nobody wants to "work" for free. Nobody wants to toil away, unappreciated. The dev's primary failure is in bringing these principles and expectations to this kind of indie-driven industry. Stemming from this is his failure to consider how things look from the player/customer's perspective.

The "I need to reach $_____ per month or else I'm quitting" ultimatum IS NEVER GOING TO WORK, not just for him but FOR ANY DEV.

It's actually a guarantee of failure. Why?

Because when a prospective customer plays this game for the first time and sees this message, they will look at the current numbers and say "Wow, great game! But he's only at a fifth/quarter/half of the goal, there's no reason to waste my money because he isn't going to reach that goal anyways."

So rather than just putting out an awesome intro and building up a community of supporters naturally with several solid monthly releases to reach his "goal" he's actually driving would-be supporters away.

It's disappointing but also perhaps not a great loss, because if he's solely motivated by money then he would likely turn out to be the kind of "developer" who just milks eternally once he's reached critical mass.

If you want to be a successful and respected developer, you have to start from the mindset that you're doing this because you enjoy it, not just for the money, because very very very very very few developers get lucky and strike gold on their first release.

Overnight success doesn't just happen overnight.
 

Calyps0

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2018
1,260
556
Looks like some great renders on this one! Could we please get a mac port?
 

Shyguy1369

Active Member
Dec 14, 2018
592
1,244
Well this was a great start... however, after reading some of the comments and seeing the roadmap on Patreon confirming some comments. I fear this story may never come to fruition
It's a nice variation to stories out there. There is an air of mystery... sadly it appears things may not go as I expect.
Best of luck on this endeavor, hope to see it continue to grow.
 

Endless

To Obtain My Infinite Dream I Shall Even Sink God
Donor
May 9, 2017
995
12,756
Damn, the hate is so strong i can taste it.
good-good-let-the-hate-flow-through-you - Copy.jpg
While i definitely understand where people are coming from, if this thread is only gonna be filled with negativity then assume that a mod will ban negative comments (constructive criticism will be ok) within this week.
And that if Dev is here he/she will quit or abandon it even sooner.

I don't know the dev & his/her RL circumstances so i will not judge too much.
The only good thing i'll say is that the renders look fantastic & i hope the dev changes his approach as we can definitely see talent here.
 
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Euron13

Member
Apr 7, 2019
463
742
The renders are great. If nothing else I’ll always commend Silk&Milk for being able to turn out some truly beautiful visuals in a fairly reasonable timeframe.

That’s where his strengths are, and I think really he should be pairing up with other Devs rather than trying this whole song and dance. He wants to get paid for the work and approaches the whole endeavour from that point of view, so he might as well loan his services out.
 
3.80 star(s) 46 Votes