Ren'Py Abandoned Hero's Harem Guild [v0.1.2.3b Public] [Komisari]

[Blazin Phoenix]

long post that isn't really necessary to quote for the response

Congrats, you found a definition in a source on the internet that defines in the way you want. I didn't go try to find every possible dictionary out there to show it was the only definition. I used the one that came up first in a google search because it seems to me that would be the most widely used one. My point that there is a definition that, a number of us use, that specifically relates to legal matters still applies because we are discussing how we each define the word and reacting to it.

Lets take a step back here, because it feels like we are talking past each other and have drifted into the weeds when we start arguing about definitions and other semantics. I think the main point is a number of us feel, because of the definitions we use, that you are going too far when you call the dev a conman or a scammer (because we link it to something you can take to authorities). You and many others seem to feel, by your definitions, that the dev is a conman or a scammer because you feel he is dishonest.

Hopefully I got that main point described right. If that's not your point please let me know what it is so I can represent your argument accurately.

If the above is a good summary, I have a couple of questions about this situation if you don't mind:

First, is it fair to call someone dishonest for not meeting a target goal that was set?
For instance if you tell someone you will be somewhere in 15 minutes (and honestly think you will be able to do that) but then you get stuck in traffic or an accident or anything else and it takes you 30 minutes or you don't get there at all because of something more serious - are you being dishonest? Does it become dishonest from your point of view if it happens multiple times? Lets assume that each time the person making the estimate honestly believed they would be able to make the target timeframe this time.

Now if you want to say that someone making estimates like that is unreliable, I can agree, and I think you should make life decisions and take actions reflecting this change in confidence level of the person's reliability.

Speaking of decisions and actions related to missed target deadlines leads me to my next, and perhaps more important, question:

What are you trying to accomplish by doing this? Are you hoping to get a refund? Do you just want to insult and or slander the dev? Are you trying to prevent people from supporting the project if they want to? What exactly is the goal or point of all this conman and scammer type talk?

 

[aris666]

type, type, type

End point is to actually see ACT 1 one of the game.
Because baseless affirmation (as recent dev actions leave no ground to trust him) of anything dev is doing currently doesn't work for sure.

 

[riderin]

Lets take a step back here, because it feels like we are talking past each other and have drifted into the weeds when we start arguing about definitions and other semantics. I think the main point is a number of us feel, because of the definitions we use, that you are going too far when you call the dev a conman or a scammer (because we link it to something you can take to authorities).

> You use words wrong!
> Provides actual definitions and multiple examples to prove that I indeed used words correctly.
> Well, lets not get stuck on semantics.

I didn't go try to find every possible dictionary out there to show it was the only definition. I used the one that came up first in a google search because it seems to me that would be the most widely used one. My point that there is a definition that, a number of us use, that specifically relates to legal matters still applies because we are discussing how we each define the word and reacting to it.

First definition on google is incorrect if you apply it to proper legal definitions. If i start googling math/stats questions, there is soo many straight up WRONG definitions, it is ridiculous. Only thing it proves that you can't do a proper research. Dude even wikipedia has a better definition than what you pulled out. Shame.

Congrats, you found a definition in a source on the internet that defines in the way you want.

"No u" isn't a great own dude.

You and many others seem to feel, by your definitions, that the dev is a conman or a scammer because you feel he is dishonest.

We don't feel, he is dishonest. It is easy to prove that he is dishonest. I know what you trying to do, set me up that Komi is 'Unreliable' instead of 'Dishonest'. He is both brother. Both.

First, is it fair to call someone dishonest for not meeting a target goal that was set?
For instance if you tell someone you will be somewhere in 15 minutes (and honestly think you will be able to do that) but then you get stuck in traffic or an accident or anything else and it takes you 30 minutes or you don't get there at all because of something more serious - are you being dishonest?

Fuck that dude, we are not talking about 15 minutes, we are not even talking about 30 minutes. We talk about someone who is 2 year late on delivery, with constant promises to release update in "this year" 2022.
We are speaking about someone who calls you and tells you he will be 15 minute late, than he will be 10 minute more late, than he calls and he will be in 30 minute, and stood you until it is 21 00... So he calls you and pinky promise it would be tomorrow! And he repeat the same spiel next day... And next... And next....

Does it become dishonest from your point of view if it happens multiple times?

It becomes dishonest when you promise something and doesn't deliver. That it. In all devs shit happens, we trust and forgive people who proved themselves as reliable, in Komi case shit happens all the time.
I feel like i'm talking with 14 year old, trying to argue absolutely idiotic semantics. "Well you see where is line and who draw this line?"

Lets assume that each time the person making the estimate honestly believed they would be able to make the target timeframe this time.

Who cares how much they believe in "this time". To believe "this time" person need to be trustworthy, Komi burned that trust somewhere like 2 years ago.

Now if you want to say that someone making estimates like that is unreliable, I can agree, and I think you should make life decisions and take actions reflecting this change in confidence level of the person's reliability.

Good that we agree that Komi is unreliable.
And dishonest.

Speaking of decisions and actions related to missed target deadlines leads me to my next, and perhaps more important, question:

What are you trying to accomplish by doing this? Are you hoping to get a refund? Do you just want to insult and or slander the dev? Are you trying to prevent people from supporting the project if they want to? What exactly is the goal or point of all this conman and scammer type talk?

Are you 12? Because it is a public forum, to discuss and criticize products and devs who deserve to be criticized. And praise products and devs who deserve the praise. We discuss. I'm sorry that majority of people are burned by your beloved, and now most people ridicule and criticize Komi. If Komi didn't f###d up, he would be praised to high haven, how it used to be when he was posted at first. Now everyone is just tired and having fun, butting heads with last few rabid fans in discussion.

 

[4notherRandomGuy]

does arguing about the definition of a word speed up game development? You guys can call it a scam or not, but what does that do?
IF the Dev is working on this, then they know that it is not true and just push out content when they are ready.
IF the Dev is not working on this, then why should they care about comment from a site made for piracy?

Or are you guys getting off from arguing about this? With how long the thing been going, might even be a kink.

 

[Perfect S]

IF the Dev is not working on this, then why should they care about comment from a site made for piracy?

Oh he does care about it. He got off the ground here. He blew up here. He checks this thread very frequently. He sends his knights to run defense here....
Besides, that's what a forum is for. Discussions. Just cuz you personally think it's pointless, does not mean we all do.

 

[HentaiSlaves]

does arguing about the definition of a word speed up game development? You guys can call it a scam or not, but what does that do?
IF the Dev is working on this, then they know that it is not true and just push out content when they are ready.
IF the Dev is not working on this, then why should they care about comment from a site made for piracy?

Or are you guys getting off from arguing about this? With how long the thing been going, might even be a kink.

You do know that people actually do come to this site and promote there games here you are funny and yes there is pirated games here i can't deny that but still new devs come here to promote there games so they can make some money and a small portion of them are scammers or they just drop the game unfinished and move on.

Your comment is funny to me if you care.

 

[rightsaidfred]

Damn, seems this game has gone full "Milfy City", shame as it was such a good start, such promise.. but it's clear despite years of protestation by the dev, it's going nowhere. Just another "string em along".

 

[Vendovah]

Damn, seems this game has gone full "Milfy City", shame as it was such a good start, such promise.. but it's clear despite years of protestation by the dev, it's going nowhere. Just another "string em along".

Interesting that Komi himself liked this comment. I wonder... did he misread it, or is he agreeing with you?

 

[Brokai]

I think the real measure of Komi will be if/when the update comes out. If the update comes out will there legitimately be a year and a halfs worth of work inside it? Or will there be just 2-3 months worth? Succubus Covenant just recently had a very similar issue where the dev dropped an update after being "abandoned" and the update was easily the most slapped together pos I've ever seen.

It's sucks that I've had to take a stance to never support developers due to them abandoning projects. I only buy fully finished games and would easily buy HHG should it ever be completed.

 

[Blazin Phoenix]

Replying to your post in general:

Dude, first of all you seem upset. If you are upset, please calm down; there is no reason to be this emotional about a discussion.

Second, while I know you want to make a bunch of zingers and pokes at the definition thing I'm going to ignore those and try to focus on the actual meat of the issue which, in my opinion, is trying to understand each other and why we disagree. If you want to believe that I'm avoiding definitions because you won the argument - go for it. I really don't care.

We don't feel, he is dishonest. It is easy to prove that he is dishonest. I know what you trying to do, set me up that Komi is 'Unreliable' instead of 'Dishonest'. He is both brother. Both.

&

Fuck that dude, we are not talking about 15 minutes, we are not even talking about 30 minutes. We talk about someone who is 2 year late on delivery, with constant promises to release update in "this year" 2022.
We are speaking about someone who calls you and tells you he will be 15 minute late, than he will be 10 minute more late, than he calls and he will be in 30 minute, and stood you until it is 21 00... So he calls you and pinky promise it would be tomorrow! And he repeat the same spiel next day... And next... And next....

&

It becomes dishonest when you promise something and doesn't deliver. That it. In all devs shit happens, we trust and forgive people who proved themselves as reliable, in Komi case shit happens all the time.
I feel like i'm talking with 14 year old, trying to argue absolutely idiotic semantics. "Well you see where is line and who draw this line?"

Can you clarify how you define dishonest? Like what does it mean to you?

I can say that, for me, dishonest should have a specific intent to knowingly lie or misrepresent things behind it. For example if you honestly believe that the sky looks like a tie-dyed t-shirt and make a claim that it looks like a tie-dyed t-shirt you aren't being dishonest, you are just mistaken. If you know that the sky is blue during the day and claim that the sky is tie-dyed t-shirt you are being dishonest because you know that it isn't and you are intentionally providing incorrect information in an attempt to mislead someone.

This isn't an discussion of semantics for me, I'm honestly trying to understand your point of view here. I think it's important to try to represent others in a way you would want to be represented (which for me is accurately represented) and to be accurate in your descriptions.

Are you 12? Because it is a public forum, to discuss and criticize products and devs who deserve to be criticized. And praise products and devs who deserve the praise. We discuss. I'm sorry that majority of people are burned by your beloved, and now most people ridicule and criticize Komi. If Komi didn't f###d up, he would be praised to high haven, how it used to be when he was posted at first. Now everyone is just tired and having fun, butting heads with last few rabid fans in discussion.

That's fine.... I agree about your right to discuss and criticize, I'm still curious of what your goal is with making the comments.

I feel that if you are taking time out of your day to talk on here about this rather than spend your time playing a game or doing something else with your energy you would have a purpose behind it. Maybe to shame Komi into making more content or something? Or are you doing it just to pass the time because you are bored and find this stuff entertaining? I'd honestly just like to know to better understand your point of view.

 

[Blazin Phoenix]

Oh he does care about it. He got off the ground here. He blew up here. He checks this thread very frequently. He sends his knights to run defense here....
Besides, that's what a forum is for. Discussions. Just cuz you personally think it's pointless, does not mean we all do.

If it matters (since a few people seem to think that I'm on here on behalf of Komi or something), I'm not on here because anyone sent me or anything. I got on here and went to the last page of the forum posts because I had played the game about a year ago and wondered if there was any news about the development then saw a post that I wanted to encourage and one thing lead to another and here we are.

The reason I'm making my arguments in defense of his character is because I want to see more content from the game. To me that's a lot more likely to occur if he doesn't feel like shit from people getting on his case for missing his goals to release content. While some people are motivated by negative posts, I feel that's not most people and I have no reason to believe that Komi is one of those people.

I think the productive way to discuss the game delays and stuff would be something along the lines of 'Hey Komi, I've pulled my support because I feel development is too slow. I hope you make more and would support you in the future if you do.' Or to commiserate with others by saying 'Yeah it sucks that the game hasn't been updated. I hope that changes soon.'

At least for me (if I was the dev) those kinds of posts would make me feel like I wanted to update the game and motivate me to make update posts about what was going on etc. even if all of the people stopped supporting me with money. I'd think that posts calling him a conman and complaining with things like 'why don't you put out an update you dishonest shit' would make me (once again if I was the dev) walk away from the project and not really care to produce anything new.

I have very seldom seen finger pointing and name calling result in resolving any issue or getting anything done. More commonly I see people shift their focus to defending themselves or shutting down rather than focusing on resolving the issue when that kind of thing occurs. That's not to say that I don't understand the emotional desire to point fingers, I certainly fall into the same trap myself reasonably often, but I think it's best that when we fall into that trap the people who aren't emotional should try to help remind others that the finger pointing isn't productive.

 

[Kwevlo]

Are their cards for the characters for koikatsu?

 

[riderin]

I think you people need a dictionary

Second, while I know you want to make a bunch of zingers and pokes at the definition thing I'm going to ignore those and try to focus on the actual meat of the issue which, in my opinion, is trying to understand each other and why we disagree. If you want to believe that I'm avoiding definitions because you won the argument - go for it.

> Try to own, by doing bunch of zingers and point into definitions
> Got annihilated
> Proceed to backpedal at the speed of light

I really don't care.

Care enough to keep typing those answers

It becomes dishonest when you promise something and doesn't deliver. That it.

Can you clarify how you define dishonest?

I'm done. Literary quoted the thing you are asking for.

 

[Kantanshi]

Blazin Phoenix Trying to gain an understanding of some of these people has reached a point of hopelessness that you end up getting better results trying to squeeze water out of a rock. I've tried in the past and ended up with the label "White Knight" or other derogatory terms. They are so stuck in their thinking that all they can really do is deliberately misunderstand your posts then point fingers, make accusations and try to redirect the conversation back to where they can complain. They make trolling posts to try to get people riled up but do not realize that the majority of people making the replies are just sighing and showing pity for their over dramatic and uneducated words.

 

[FutaPutaMuta]

Why Abandoned? He is really Active on itch.io and i looks like the Update is Near (he said 2 Hrs ago its size is 20GB)

 

[Lolicon Kami]

Why Abandoned? He is really Active on itch.io and i looks like the Update is Near (he said 2 Hrs ago its size is 20GB)

F95zone policy is that a game is marked abandoned when it does not release an update in I think 6 months, regardless of any proof of active development.

So an abandoned tag does not mean the game is abandoned, just that you need to dig further to see what is going on, as there have not been recent updates

 

[Peacekeepr]

Suddenly I felt this meme would be on-topic. But jokes aside, Komisari said Chapter 1 "will reach" 20GB, not that it currently has 20 GB, nor that he was packaging it, nor anything to imply the release would happen in the near future. Some skepticism is usually good, but for those whom are taking "I'll believe the update when I see it" a little too far, worth noting that the only promise on his itch.io statement is regarding file size. So if anyone construes that as a promise for release date, they do so at their own risk. And I believe it was thoroughly established (and even said by Komisari himself) that he's bad with dates, so if he gives one and you believe it, you do so at your risk. And if you pay them on the premise of getting anything by any date (up to and including 2050), you DEFINITELY do that at your own risk. Early on, arguing you've been defrauded could make sense, but at this point in time, it would be difficult to make a case (it is comparable to people whom bet at lottery and lose everything asking for a refund because the grand prize propaganda fooled them ─ makes sense at a glance... but doesn't hold).

 

[gestved]

best way to deal with this is to don't expect shit, forget about it, and if it comes out cool

 

[DerWahrePeter]

And also, if you are truly concerned about not getting scammed by 'lazy devs that just milk their fanbase', only pay as much as you are willing to pay for the product in front of you. If you think an update was good enough to deserve your support, great. If it doesn't, don't deride others for coming different conclusion than you.

 

[Slub]

If it matters (since a few people seem to think that I'm on here on behalf of Komi or something), I'm not on here because anyone sent me or anything. I got on here and went to the last page of the forum posts because I had played the game about a year ago and wondered if there was any news about the development then saw a post that I wanted to encourage and one thing lead to another and here we are.

The reason I'm making my arguments in defense of his character is because I want to see more content from the game. To me that's a lot more likely to occur if he doesn't feel like shit from people getting on his case for missing his goals to release content. While some people are motivated by negative posts, I feel that's not most people and I have no reason to believe that Komi is one of those people.

I think the productive way to discuss the game delays and stuff would be something along the lines of 'Hey Komi, I've pulled my support because I feel development is too slow. I hope you make more and would support you in the future if you do.' Or to commiserate with others by saying 'Yeah it sucks that the game hasn't been updated. I hope that changes soon.'

At least for me (if I was the dev) those kinds of posts would make me feel like I wanted to update the game and motivate me to make update posts about what was going on etc. even if all of the people stopped supporting me with money. I'd think that posts calling him a conman and complaining with things like 'why don't you put out an update you dishonest shit' would make me (once again if I was the dev) walk away from the project and not really care to produce anything new.

I have very seldom seen finger pointing and name calling result in resolving any issue or getting anything done. More commonly I see people shift their focus to defending themselves or shutting down rather than focusing on resolving the issue when that kind of thing occurs. That's not to say that I don't understand the emotional desire to point fingers, I certainly fall into the same trap myself reasonably often, but I think it's best that when we fall into that trap the people who aren't emotional should try to help remind others that the finger pointing isn't productive.

So you randomly jumped into the discussion to defend the developer because you want to see more of the game, according to the first two paragraphs. Meanwhile the people you are arguing with have been following the thread for a longer time and call him out because of his communication, which boils down to empty promises to attract new investors and string the existing ones along for years. Yet, you are invalidating them as emotional when it was your ignorance and semantic games that irritates them and they are responding to.

Again, no one cares about the delays if it wasn’t for the developers false advertising. Somehow this thread still managed to fill hundreds of pages with dimwits defending him in a similar fashion.

Blazin Phoenix Trying to gain an understanding of some of these people has reached a point of hopelessness that you end up getting better results trying to squeeze water out of a rock. I've tried in the past and ended up with the label "White Knight" or other derogatory terms. They are so stuck in their thinking that all they can really do is deliberately misunderstand your posts then point fingers, make accusations and try to redirect the conversation back to where they can complain. They make trolling posts to try to get people riled up but do not realize that the majority of people making the replies are just sighing and showing pity for their over dramatic and uneducated words.

What exactly is your motivation to argue in the first place? These people are calling out what they perceive as deception and you haven’t done anything but attempt to invalidate them. How do ‘uneducated words’ change anything about the initial argument? It is clear what these people were referring to with ‘scam’, ‘deception’ and other terminology from the context after all.