Ren'Py Holiday Island [v0.4.5.0] [darkhound1]

[DuckSwim]

The problem with location activities is that they are horrible expensive investments due to having 3 (or more) outfits.
The normal location activity has 3 renders and each is repeated pr. outfit.

15 Normal girls x 3 outfits x 3 renders = 135 renders needed for the most basic location activity.
The "clones" are on average cheaper to (re)make, so lets say 90-100 full renders effective cost in time and effort.

Which is around 3-4 weeks of work.

And of course there is the nice touch that it has a future cost too.
Add a new girl? Create all location renders for her and then repeat all for each outfit she has.
Add a new outfit? Repeat all location renders for that outfit.

It is a primary or the key factor why the last normal girl added was Natasha in 2018 and why outfits for the day hours have been largely static over the years. The cost is simply insane.

It is no secret that it is the only part of HI's design which would be changed or outright scrapped if time travel was a thing.

But since we are short on time travel and have a huge to-do list already, it'd have to be a very good suggestion for what to do at the Spa.

 

[zapallbugs]

The problem with location activities is that they are horrible expensive investments due to having 3 (or more) outfits.
The normal location activity has 3 renders and each is repeated pr. outfit.

15 Normal girls x 3 outfits x 3 renders = 135 renders needed for the most basic location activity.
The "clones" are on average cheaper to (re)make, so lets say 90-100 full renders effective cost in time and effort.

Which is around 3-4 weeks of work.

And of course there is the nice touch that it has a future cost too.
Add a new girl? Create all location renders for her and then repeat all for each outfit she has.
Add a new outfit? Repeat all location renders for that outfit.

It is no secret that it is the only part of HI's design which would be changed if time travel was a thing.

It is a primary or the key factor why the last normal girl added was Natasha in 2018 and why outfits for the day hours have been largely static over the years.

The cost is simply insane.

So since we are short on time travel and have a huge to-do list already, it'd have to be a very good suggestion for what to do at the Spa.

There is one flaw in this logic. It assumes that whatever happens at the Spa would have to happen for all girls. Maybe in the distant future if Dark's appetite lasts that long. For now just one or two girls would do. It's like that in the gym too. Not all girls have the weight lifting or the pull-ups or the yoga.

 

[DuckSwim]

There is one flaw in this logic. It assumes that whatever happens at the Spa would have to happen for all girls. Maybe in the distant future if Dark's appetite lasts that long. For now just one or two girls would do. It's like that in the gym too. Not all girls have the weight lifting or the pull-ups or the yoga.

Actually there is no flaw, that is what the template costs and location events are generic content.
Limiting it to some girls initially does not change things, that's just the exact same cost postphoned to the future.

That existing content has seen and is seeing staggered implementation or even indefinite staggering does not change it either. That's just Darkhound's normal way of working on multiple and mixed projects over huge periods of time.

The cost and task remains.

Worth noting is that,

• The shift to specials since summer 2018
• The shift to custom events and quests since autumn 2019

Are the de-facto conclusions on the topic.
All of which are explicitly defined by not having the inherent issues.

The foundations are laid and generic is now periodic filler work.

But good suggestions are sometimes taken up and thus that's were that one is.
Being an expensive type It'd have to be a very good suggestion for what to do at the Spa.

(and likely not involve outfit repetition, not have a future cost, no increasing load if more girls are added and if limited to some explain why and who)

 

[darkhound1]

Basically it's like DuckSwim described.
With the way I'm doing things now, it's even a bit more complex when you look at the details.

Not everything has to be done for all girls, that's true. But it will be done for at least most of the girls over time, so the cost is the same (or even higher, because of additional setup times).
Not everything has always to be done for three outfits. If e.g. spa can also mean sauna (which is part of the spa), there is only one outfit, meaning naked.
On the opposite side of things, a render count of three is no longer realistic for any new scene. It was in the past for really simple stuff. But now, I can't remember when I last did any scene that had less than 8 or 10 renders. If you take that into account too, it means a lot more renders.
Also the newer scenes are no longer generic, so every girl has her own renders and story line, which increases the render and scene costs by a very big margin.

A very simple thing at the spa could be stitting with the girl on the waiting sofa and just talk. But this would mean all the problems with three outfits per girl and in addition I don't think it would make anyone very happy to have that.
It would be just another (more or less boring) chat/talk scene.

What are you doing here? I'm waiting for my massage. Oh yes, me too. I hope I get Renée, she's really good at it.
Bla bla...
I'm pretty sure no one is looking forward to a more or less empty scene just for the sake of having something to do at the spa.

So as DuckSwim said, until someone can come up with a really good idea that would be worth the render effort, my time working on the game is better spend doing other things.

EDIT:
On another note, opposed to the opinion in the last review, the game is most definitely not a vehicle to showcase renders.
It is quite the other way round. The renders are necessary to drive the game and to have a game at all.
If I just wanted to render, I'd go back to DA and publish renders. I'm rendering a lot of images necessary for the game, that are not really fun to do or make me happy. But they are necessary for the game, so they are done too. As long as the balance is okay, I don't have a problem with that.
From my origin I'm still a tech guy who loves to code, learn and find out new things. I'm not an artist by heart.

 

[zapallbugs]

Basically it's like DuckSwim described.
With the way I'm doing things now, it's even a bit more complex when you look at the details.

Not everything has to be done for all girls, that's true. But it will be done for at least most of the girls over time, so the cost is the same (or even higher, because of additional setup times).
Not everything has always to be done for three outfits. If e.g. spa can also mean sauna (which is part of the spa), there is only one outfit, meaning naked.
On the opposite side of things, a render count of three is no longer realistic for any new scene. It was in the past for really simple stuff. But now, I can't remember when I last did any scene that had less than 8 or 10 renders. If you take that into account too, it means a lot more renders.
Also the newer scenes are no longer generic, so every girl has her own renders and story line, which increases the render and scene costs by a very big margin.

A very simple thing at the spa could be stitting with the girl on the waiting sofa and just talk. But this would mean all the problems with three outfits per girl and in addition I don't think it would make anyone very happy to have that.
It would be just another (more or less boring) chat/talk scene.

What are you doing here? I'm waiting for my massage. Oh yes, me too. I hope I get Renée, she's really good at it.
Bla bla...
I'm pretty sure no one is looking forward to a more or less empty scene just for the sake of having something to do at the spa.

So as DuckSwim said, until someone can come up with a really good idea that would be worth the render effort, my time working on the game is better spend doing other things.

EDIT:
On another note, opposed to the opinion in the last review, the game is most definitely not a vehicle to showcase renders.
It is quite the other way round. The renders are necessary to drive the game and to have a game at all.
If I just wanted to render, I'd go back to DA and publish renders. I'm rendering a lot of images necessary for the game, that are not really fun to do or make me happy. But they are necessary for the game, so they are done too. As long as the balance is okay, I don't have a problem with that.
From my origin I'm still a tech guy who loves to code, learn and find out new things. I'm not an artist by heart.

Just a question, would Duckswim's reasoning be why the volleyball scene will never happen? That would be really nightmarish renderingwise. With at least 3, assuming the MC himself is playing, or 4 girls when he is just watching, with all girls wearing swimwear. That would require 27 or 81 permutations per render. And it would be even worse if a girl with special swimwear would be involved. And swap just one girl and start over again. There would be no end of it.

 

[junior366]

Just a question, would Duckswim's reasoning be why the volleyball scene will never happen? That would be really nightmarish renderingwise. With at least 3, assuming the MC himself is playing, or 4 girls when he is just watching, with all girls wearing swimwear. That would require 27 or 81 permutations per render. And it would be even worse if a girl with special swimwear would be involved. And swap just one girl and start over again. There would be no end of it.

Probably means Strip Twister will never happen either.

 

[shinomond]

A very simple thing at the spa could be stitting with the girl on the waiting sofa and just talk. But this would mean all the problems with three outfits per girl and in addition I don't think it would make anyone very happy to have that.
It would be just another (more or less boring) chat/talk scene.

What are you doing here? I'm waiting for my massage. Oh yes, me too. I hope I get Renée, she's really good at it.
Bla bla...
I'm pretty sure no one is looking forward to a more or less empty scene just for the sake of having something to do at the spa.

So as DuckSwim said, until someone can come up with a really good idea that would be worth the render effort, my time working on the game is better spend doing other things.

I would say working at the spa would be a good option. It would take training and practice from the amy/renee quest chain but would make for something new. Only one set of renders for each girl in her towel / naked and could add talk scenes over the same renders kind of like being a stylist and hearing tidbits of info like listening at the dinner table. A good source to reduce anger as well.

 

[teuni67]

Hello my dears,
I know that many have asked, but I just need the days again and how exactly I get to the sauna via Yvette. I find a lot, but hardly with precise statements, or the Google Translator is just crap. So I ask that you please write to me again the days when you have the opportunity to meet Yvette at the sauna and a brief description. I'm trying to switch from the massage waiting area to the savings hall for the hundredth time. But I'm not even sure if that's right. I ask for help. lg teuni67

 

[bobthebuilder223]

Basically it's like DuckSwim described.
With the way I'm doing things now, it's even a bit more complex when you look at the details.

Not everything has to be done for all girls, that's true. But it will be done for at least most of the girls over time, so the cost is the same (or even higher, because of additional setup times).
Not everything has always to be done for three outfits. If e.g. spa can also mean sauna (which is part of the spa), there is only one outfit, meaning naked.
On the opposite side of things, a render count of three is no longer realistic for any new scene. It was in the past for really simple stuff. But now, I can't remember when I last did any scene that had less than 8 or 10 renders. If you take that into account too, it means a lot more renders.
Also the newer scenes are no longer generic, so every girl has her own renders and story line, which increases the render and scene costs by a very big margin.

A very simple thing at the spa could be stitting with the girl on the waiting sofa and just talk. But this would mean all the problems with three outfits per girl and in addition I don't think it would make anyone very happy to have that.
It would be just another (more or less boring) chat/talk scene.

What are you doing here? I'm waiting for my massage. Oh yes, me too. I hope I get Renée, she's really good at it.
Bla bla...
I'm pretty sure no one is looking forward to a more or less empty scene just for the sake of having something to do at the spa.

So as DuckSwim said, until someone can come up with a really good idea that would be worth the render effort, my time working on the game is better spend doing other things.

EDIT:
On another note, opposed to the opinion in the last review, the game is most definitely not a vehicle to showcase renders.
It is quite the other way round. The renders are necessary to drive the game and to have a game at all.
If I just wanted to render, I'd go back to DA and publish renders. I'm rendering a lot of images necessary for the game, that are not really fun to do or make me happy. But they are necessary for the game, so they are done too. As long as the balance is okay, I don't have a problem with that.
From my origin I'm still a tech guy who loves to code, learn and find out new things. I'm not an artist by heart.

So, theoretically, in the distant future, let's say someone who is an artist by heart would offer you his or her help in creating those renders you're not really fond of while you focus on coding and learning and finding out new things. Would that be at all conceivable?

 

[darkhound1]

So, theoretically, in the distant future, let's say someone who is an artist by heart would offer you his or her help in creating those renders you're not really fond of while you focus on coding and learning and finding out new things. Would that be at all conceivable?

You didn't understand what I wrote.
To create a good game, especially a sandbox game (which is a lot harder than creating a VN), you need a bunch of skills and elements.
Creativity: For writing and creating the renders
Perseverance and motivation: to keep going
Technical and programming skills (to code the game, but also for Daz Studio, post work in PS etc.)
You need all of that, not just one or two, or it will not work for a longer period of time.
I didn't say that I don't like rendering. If that would be the case, there wouldn't be a DA page with a ton of my renders and the game wouldn't exist either.
All I said was, that I have a technical background and that's where I'm coming from. All the skills for writing and the artist stuff I picked up on the way. And rendering the same stuff over and over again is boring, so I try to avoid it now whereever possible.

 

[darkhound1]

Just a question, would Duckswim's reasoning be why the volleyball scene will never happen? That would be really nightmarish renderingwise. With at least 3, assuming the MC himself is playing, or 4 girls when he is just watching, with all girls wearing swimwear. That would require 27 or 81 permutations per render. And it would be even worse if a girl with special swimwear would be involved. And swap just one girl and start over again. There would be no end of it.

Going into this direction isn't feasible, I totally agree with you.
In my opinion, there is only one way it can be made to work at all.
It has to be set up like a contest. MC gets an invitation for a beach volleyball "appointment".
Let's asume he plays too. This could be expanded to him just watching.
The girls wear "volleyball" clothes and there is only one set for each girl.
Not all girls are playing, only some of them. Maybe 6 to 8 of them or even less.

The renders have to be done in a way, that individual girls can be swapped out, or the permutation will get insane. Just calculate the possibilities for 3 out of 6 or 8, not even counting that each girl can have every position.
So there wil have to be a lot of "zoomed in" renders on one girl too, or the effort will still not be manageable.

To make it at least a little interesting and not just a ton of renders for almost no return, there would have to be some purpose or fun parts too. E.g. like a girl smacking another ones butt, or a girl flashing to make the MC drop the ball.. stuff like that.
This will make it even more complicated, but without elements like that it's not worth it.

Long story short. All the above is the reason it does not exist yet.

 

[SciGuy]

As long as we're thinking out loud, here's a sauna thought. When the MC fails to 'launch' for >96 hrs (or some other trigger) Joy brings either a new girl OR an off-island friend for a tour. Intro in Joy's office leads to a sauna appt. The girl is there for one purpose! Miranda gives MC a post-action performance review cuz that's just her way. She spends her days WATCHING from her tower, that SCREAMS voyeur to me.

 

[albertosp]

Hmm i need help, there is only 5 girls in my island and its alredy like week 5 ingame. I got Eva arrival scene TWICE but she is still inactive. I went to the reception but there is no buttom to call new girls (alredy got the scene in the office saying that I can invite new girls or whatever) HELP

or can somone give me a save after amy first two quest? please, it took me hours to get here lmao

 

[zapallbugs]

As long as we're thinking out loud, here's a sauna thought. When the MC fails to 'launch' for >96 hrs (or some other trigger) Joy brings either a new girl OR an off-island friend for a tour. Intro in Joy's office leads to a sauna appt. The girl is there for one purpose! Miranda gives MC a post-action performance review cuz that's just her way. She spends her days WATCHING from her tower, that SCREAMS voyeur to me.

A new girl is probably out of the question, see above discussion. But a visitor, maybe. That Annabelle girl looked promising.

 

[SciGuy]

A new girl is probably out of the question, see above discussion. But a visitor, maybe. That Annabelle girl looked promising.

Annabelle was who I had in mind for the 'new girl'! No other island appearance necessary - island tour and intro with Joy, quick sauna appt, and gone.

 

[darkhound1]

Annabelle was who I had in mind for the 'new girl'! No other island appearance necessary - island tour and intro with Joy, quick sauna appt, and gone.

It's not a fucking is all there is game...
If there is one thing I don't need at all, it's ideas for new scenes where you can screw girls. That one is really very very easy.

 

[zenaxius]

You do you Darkhound!!

 

[Bantry]

Hello my dears,
I know that many have asked, but I just need the days again and how exactly I get to the sauna via Yvette. I find a lot, but hardly with precise statements, or the Google Translator is just crap. So I ask that you please write to me again the days when you have the opportunity to meet Yvette at the sauna and a brief description. I'm trying to switch from the massage waiting area to the savings hall for the hundredth time. But I'm not even sure if that's right. I ask for help. lg teuni67

Ask the receptionist and she will give any and all info about locations on the island. For your question, Tuesday and Friday are the only days that both a girl and the MC can be in the sauna together. On one of those days you will find Yvette in the sauna.

 

[Bantry]

Hmm i need help, there is only 5 girls in my island and its alredy like week 5 ingame. I got Eva arrival scene TWICE but she is still inactive. I went to the reception but there is no buttom to call new girls (alredy got the scene in the office saying that I can invite new girls or whatever) HELP

or can somone give me a save after amy first two quest? please, it took me hours to get here lmao

For starters, if you haven't done so already, download the Guide from the OP and READ it. Besides learning all kinds of info about the game and tips to play it, you will also learn 'How to Search' this thread. Why is that important? Well two pages back, there is a post with all the information on the next update including Bug Fixes. Here's and excerpt:

Bug fixes

• Eva's arrival scene repeats over and over again when you walk to your from your room --> will be fixed with 0.2.2.0

I can understand not wanting to wait for the next release, but Search will also tell you that the developer has already posted a quick fix on his Patreon page.

You must be registered to see the links

Visit there and download and install the posted fixes and your problems should go away.

 

[SciGuy]

It's not a fucking is all there is game...
If there is one thing I don't need at all, it's ideas for new scenes where you can screw girls. That one is really very very easy.

No offense meant - just looking for a way to add some sauna content while taking the aforementioned imitations into account.