JGNeon

Active Member
Feb 24, 2021
595
1,798
How do I find a job in Cyfadell? All the locations on the map are with people who don't offer jobs in the beginning
View attachment 2094532
First, speak/interact with all villagers; there's a pair (prostitutes, maybe?) at the main square, one at the forge (the smith), and several at the tavern (barmaid, guy sitting at the bar, woman standing at the post near the bar, father+daughter near the front, and woman at a table near the back behind the father+daughter). Once you've spoken to all of them, go the the main square, where a new person has appeared, sitting next to the big tree. Talk to him to get directions to Erdie's house, where you'll get your first job.
 
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Duke4515

Member
Jul 8, 2017
297
677
Just to understand what you mean by ntr, a term I still don't fully understand.
This scene why should it bother you guys?
No one is stealing that girl from mc, in fact, maybe it's just the exact opposite.
I'm really curious about the answer
Anyway, there will be no sharing scenes with family members, that's for sure.
There might be some stuff between mom and dad, but this is a very normal thing.
I personally dislike MMF. I just have no desire to be with a LI who I Eiffel towered with another dude. I wouldn't call it NTR but it is sharing, and I don't like to share. A nameless prostitute is one thing but a legit LI would be unappealing with scenes like that to me. Giving people an option to avoid it seems like a fair approach. Most games give you pointless choices but rarely give you options like in sex scenes where people might appreciate it more.

With the Mom and Dad I kind of get it, they are married, but I also don't find it appealing to see or really hear about their sex life. I might be in the minority but I usually don't find it attractive to be told or hear about a LI's sexual past in detail or to see it. I don't care that they aren't a virgin, I just don't want to hear about things like that 4 way gang-bang they got into that one time. This is just based off some similar dialogue I have come across lately in other games that I found to turn me off from otherwise good scenes.
 

BlasKyau

Devoted Member
Jun 26, 2018
8,038
10,579
Hi guys, long time since I posted on this forum :)
I wanted to tell you that I will fix the description a bit when I get home, these days I am very busy.
If you have any suggestions in the meantime, please post them here or in dm.
As for ntr, it is not on the agenda for now and I don't think it will be in the future. Especially as far as family members are concerned.
If NTR and/or sharing are included and can be avoided, then I see no problem. The problem would be not being able to avoid them.

There will still be group scenes, even mmf with people we just met.
I don't think this is considered a real ntr. Am I wrong?
First, I'm guessing the MMF girl isn't an LI. If so, indicate that I'm not a fan of sex scenes where male characters other than the MC are included. If there are MMF scenes I prefer that they can be avoided, or that you can choose to do a MF scene where the M is the MC.

Just to understand what you mean by ntr, a term I still don't fully understand.
This scene why should it bother you guys?
No one is stealing that girl from mc, in fact, maybe it's just the exact opposite.
I'm really curious about the answer
Anyway, there will be no sharing scenes with family members, that's for sure.
There might be some stuff between mom and dad, but this is a very normal thing.

View attachment 2088713
I personally don't like sharing or NTR, so I really don't want to have in my game sex scenes with LIs where a guy other than the MC intervenes (whether I see them on screen or not). And I really don't want to see those kinds of scenes (with a guy other than the MC, whether the MC is included in them or not) with girls who aren't LIs. Really, for me those kinds of scenes should be completely avoidable.

I personally dislike MMF. I just have no desire to be with a LI who I Eiffel towered with another dude. I wouldn't call it NTR but it is sharing, and I don't like to share. A nameless prostitute is one thing but a legit LI would be unappealing with scenes like that to me. Giving people an option to avoid it seems like a fair approach. Most games give you pointless choices but rarely give you options like in sex scenes where people might appreciate it more.
I'm with you that it's not NTR, but I still don't like it. I don't like sharing.

With the Mom and Dad I kind of get it, they are married, but I also don't find it appealing to see or really hear about their sex life. I might be in the minority but I usually don't find it attractive to be told or hear about a LI's sexual past in detail or to see it. I don't care that they aren't a virgin, I just don't want to hear about things like that 4 way gang-bang they got into that one time. This is just based off some similar dialogue I have come across lately in other games that I found to turn me off from otherwise good scenes.
I prefer not to know the sexual life of the LIs, listen them talking about their sexual experiences gives me a great turndown.
 

holaje12

Active Member
Dec 17, 2018
895
3,664
LI = Love Interest (i.e. girls the MC may have a relationship with).

It really comes down to: If all the NTR, sharing (and MMF scenes and the like) can be avoided, then possibly the game will interest me. If they can't be avoided, I won't be interested in playing at all.
Also it would be nice to know if there will be alot of those scenes because it wouldnt be worth playing if I'm just going to avoid 50-40% of the games content
 

Larry2000

Dev/Head Writer of Unexpected Opportunity
Game Developer
May 9, 2017
1,307
3,031
Sorry for the question , but what do you mean by LI?
One last thing to add that these wonderful people didn't mention is that LI or Love Interests are any character that the MC interacts with that has a relationship with them. It doesn't have to be a strong relation like girlfriend, just enough of a relation.

Examples of Love Interests:
Family Members: The most obvious Love interests are Family members, never share these.
Next door neighbors/childhood friends/school crushes: All of these are viable relationships to be Love Interests.
Classmates: Can be love interest if you give them time and story with the MC. Be careful.

Other possible Love Interests:
Slutty Girl: The slutty girl that only fucked you once is probably not a Love Interest. However, she can be a love interest if you invest into her story. If the MC interacts with her enough for her to like MC, then it can be seen that way.
Random Girl that we meet later: IF you do add MMF or borderline NTR stuff into the game, make sure to do it with random girls that will NOT in the FUTURE become involved in the story.

For example, you introduce a random voyeur scene with a random girl, 3 updates later, you make this girl Love Interest for the MC. If the scene at the beginning is forced, then it's likely gonna get the NTR tag. So be aware of that. As I said, Non-Love Interests are typically girls that MC will never form any meaningful relation.

As for the Mom and Dad thing. I'd recommend against adding explicit images and avoid talking about it in detail if it is important. The game Rejected No More by Royal Candy got a LOT of flak for that and he ended up moving to a different game instead with ZERO sharing/NTR. Just a thought.

All in all, We're glad you're still around. I can say that I was a BIG fan of Max's Life before the first remake. Then you added all the... sharing content and the whoring content and I wasn't a fan. I hope this game isn't one of those.

Hope to see you around more often!
 

BlasKyau

Devoted Member
Jun 26, 2018
8,038
10,579
One last thing to add that these wonderful people didn't mention is that LI or Love Interests are any character that the MC interacts with that has a relationship with them. It doesn't have to be a strong relation like girlfriend, just enough of a relation.

Examples of Love Interests:
Family Members: The most obvious Love interests are Family members, never share these.
Next door neighbors/childhood friends/school crushes: All of these are viable relationships to be Love Interests.
Classmates: Can be love interest if you give them time and story with the MC. Be careful.

Other possible Love Interests:
Slutty Girl: The slutty girl that only fucked you once is probably not a Love Interest. However, she can be a love interest if you invest into her story. If the MC interacts with her enough for her to like MC, then it can be seen that way.
Random Girl that we meet later: IF you do add MMF or borderline NTR stuff into the game, make sure to do it with random girls that will NOT in the FUTURE become involved in the story.
In my opinion if the girl isn't in a relationship with the MC (or the MC isn't actively looking for it), then it isn't NTR. That said, I'm not going to like the scene, in fact I prefer not to have to watch the sex scenes where guys other than the MC participate (if LIs participate they have to be avoidable, if they don't participate, skipping them works for me)

For example, you introduce a random voyeur scene with a random girl, 3 updates later, you make this girl Love Interest for the MC. If the scene at the beginning is forced, then it's likely gonna get the NTR tag. So be aware of that. As I said, Non-Love Interests are typically girls that MC will never form any meaningful relation.
A LI is it from the beginning, that as a player you do not know it until later doesn't change that fact.

As for the Mom and Dad thing. I'd recommend against adding explicit images and avoid talking about it in detail if it is important. The game Rejected No More by Royal Candy got a LOT of flak for that and he ended up moving to a different game instead with ZERO sharing/NTR. Just a thought.
Like the rest of the LIs, the mother's sex life before being with the MC doesn't interest me. Unless the dev wants to include it as a demotivating element to produce rejection of a specific LI, talking about her sexual life and showing it is a mistake.

All in all, We're glad you're still around. I can say that I was a BIG fan of Max's Life before the first remake. Then you added all the... sharing content and the whoring content and I wasn't a fan. I hope this game isn't one of those.

Hope to see you around more often!
I've gone through the thread of Max's Life and after finding out that one of the LIs writes in her diary that she's bored of the MC (or something like that), and is thinking about fucking other guys, then I've decided that I prefer to include that game in my ignore list. I hope nothing similar happens here.

Personally, I think the best option is to include a choice at the beginning of the game to disable sharing (and NTR if there is one in the future) and if you have it disabled, even mentions of it will disappear.

EDIT:

Kuggazer, I'm reading the comments on the Max's Life thread, and I'd like to know if this game intends, as it seems to happen in chapter 4 of the other, to end up including only sharing scenes. According to what I've read to the user
Joey's Conscience:

"With chapter 4 the dev is just saying "fuck you" to ppl who play NTR Off, and not giving them anything while NTR On gets scenes. Nowdays, NTR Off is just a lite version of the game with less content. Not to mention all the naked touching other dudes, exibitionism, and even the single forced sharing (you are forced to triple threat Jessica in both paths) that bleeds into NTR off. There's just a lot less care given to NTR Off nowdays. At least for me, it feels like each update is making the game worse for people who don't like the sharing stuff."
 
Last edited:

Konstantinus

Engaged Member
Feb 25, 2019
2,284
2,050
No, no, please take away some of the "pleasure of discovery". I'm so tired of game descriptions that are no more specific than horoscopes, and right now, this description could apply to half the games on this site. These are by and large porn games, people are playing not for the pleasure of discovery, they're playing for the discovery of pleasure.

We're likely going to find out what "the gift" is within the first few minutes of gameplay, so it's not like it's some mysterious secret. Go on and tell us what makes the game different, and maybe a rough idea of where it's going. Tell us what the setting is, give us an actual plot hook. Right now, this description is so bland and generic that the game might as well not have a description at all.

People don't have unlimited time to download and test every single game, and I really wish game devs understood that.
The reason I wait until a game has progressed way more or give from start at least guarentee, that it is not planed. And guarentee means guarentee and not this wischewaschi corptalk "there are no plans for this"
 

Larry2000

Dev/Head Writer of Unexpected Opportunity
Game Developer
May 9, 2017
1,307
3,031
In my opinion if the girl isn't in a relationship with the MC (or the MC isn't actively looking for it), then it isn't NTR. That said, I'm not going to like the scene, in fact I prefer not to have to watch the sex scenes where guys other than the MC participate (if LIs participate they have to be avoidable, if they don't participate, skipping them works for me)
I appreciate that you have exceptions and stuff, but the reason why I make clear distinctions between Love Interests is cause, as you know, some Dev's like to stretch the definition of the three letter word: "It's not En Tee Argh because of A, and B." I don't play that game. I've been cucked one too many times before and that's why I make clear distinctions that if that character is MEANT to be with MC through close relation, then that person is a love interest.
A LI is it from the beginning, that as a player you do not know it until later doesn't change that fact.
That's 100% not true. If a Dev introduces a character and they are only shown once, it's clear they aren't a love interest. But if the same Dev gives her a bigger role in the game, then of course that person can become a LI.
Like the rest of the LIs, the mother's sex life before being with the MC doesn't interest me. Unless the dev wants to include it as a demotivating element to produce rejection of a specific LI, talking about her sexual life and showing it is a mistake.
I'm 1000% with you on this one. I don't see the need of some Dev's to point that out. Like Why?
I've gone through the thread of Max's Life and after finding out that one of the LIs writes in her diary that she's bored of the MC (or something like that), and is thinking about fucking other guys, then I've decided that I prefer to include that game in my ignore list. I hope nothing similar happens here.

Personally, I think the best option is to include a choice at the beginning of the game to disable sharing (and NTR if there is one in the future) and if you have it disabled, even mentions of it will disappear.
Not to get off topic and talk about Max's Life, so I'll put it in a spoiler.

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The Rogue Trader

Active Member
Sep 12, 2021
510
747
IMO Love Interests should be clearly identified at the start of the game: "Alice, Bea and Carla are the girls you're going to pursue. The others are just side characters."
This is something that devs too often tend to forget: it's been a while since launch, but they have designed this new character that's so much more interesting than Alice, Bea or Carla and they start giving her love, at the expense of the original three LI. This causes confusion, and confusion causes contrasting expectations that can't be all met.

NTR isn't as clearly defined as it looks: in the end it's all about creating jealousy, that's subjective.
If in making a non-netorare game the dev doesn't make a clear distinction "these are the girls that you will have, the others are free to pursuit their own life" you can bet that he will end up pissing off royally not only the irrational wannabe-sultan crybabies (that are better lost than gained anyway) but also most of the normal players who just happen not to like netorare, like the ones posting above me. It's not like there's a shortage of lewd games to migrate to.

Why devs all too often end up straying away from what Larry2000 called a "Wholesome Harem story" is actually pretty easy to understand.
Tthe most common reason happens when, as above, after months or even years spent on their game, a dev ends up feeling that their story has gone stale. The original driving conflict (that too often wasn't more elaborate than "try to get laid") lost its strength, so they might decide to introduce a new conflict or spice up the story. And they think: what better conflict than "Hey, now you've got a rival!"?
Or maybe they grow disaffected with the MC, so they introduce a new bull that they feel is more interesting.

Another reason is the lack of the knowledge that players self-insert in the game and identify in the character. Not many understand this, as it happens mostly in specific game genres (compare, for example, FPSs to strategy games).
So a newbie dev can just think "Let's give players more sex scenes, some with the MC, some with this other guy, and there let's give a nice gangbang to the main female lead."
Newbie devs ofter have porn movies as reference for deciding what's hot in lewd media: newbie mistake: they are different medias and are percevided differently by their fans.
This most often is the cause for the dreaded ntr-mislabelling at the start of the game: a newbie dev often doesn't think that the MC should feel jealous in that situation. They aren't jealous, so they wrongly assume the player won't feel jealous.
Drama usually ensues.

Those reasons usually stem from the original idea of the game not being more elaborate than "Let's write a Harem Story: they're very popular. OK, so let's have this young guy... let's not make him too much of a loser... and now let's put him in this kind of situation. It's [original]/[popular] enough, I bet this one will be a success, let's start and then I'll think about what happens next."
On the contrary, when you develop a game, you should have well clear a story with a beginning where the characters and the situation are set up, a central section where the stuff happens and an end where we see the consequences of the stuff that happened and the story gets its finale, that's the point you're trying to make (yes, even in a porn game! "And he flew to a land where polygamy is legal and married all the girls of the harem" is making a very clear point, after all, isn't it?)
 

BlasKyau

Devoted Member
Jun 26, 2018
8,038
10,579
I appreciate that you have exceptions and stuff, but the reason why I make clear distinctions between Love Interests is cause, as you know, some Dev's like to stretch the definition of the three letter word: "It's not En Tee Argh because of A, and B." I don't play that game. I've been cucked one too many times before and that's why I make clear distinctions that if that character is MEANT to be with MC through close relation, then that person is a love interest.
I'm not really going to argue if it's NTR or not, I don't like it and if calling it NTR prevents it from being included then I'll agree with that.

That's 100% not true. If a Dev introduces a character and they are only shown once, it's clear they aren't a love interest. But if the same Dev gives her a bigger role in the game, then of course that person can become a LI.
I haven't explained well. If a girl who wasn't LI at the begining of the game has a sex scene with someone (antagonist, Uber driver, whoever) and eventually becomes LI, that scene will weigh on her character like a slab of concrete tied to the foot of someone who wants to get out of a river (or sea) for a breath of fresh air. For many she will die as LI, without being able to breath. This was what i meant. When she wasn't a LI, the scene cannot be liked to much people but it didn't bother much, once she's a LI, the scene is seen with different eyes and the Dev may have to modify that scene to silence criticism.

I'm 1000% with you on this one. I don't see the need of some Dev's to point that out. Like Why?
It's possible that the Dev has a predilection for sharing and doesn't see that this type of scene may not be liked.

Not to get off topic and talk about Max's Life, so I'll put it in a spoiler.

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I don't think it's offtopic to ask if the game is going to be one where each sharing scene has another without that fetish (and with numerous scenes where only the MC participates without a sharing counterpart) or if, on the contrary, the idea is that, as it seems Being in chapter 4 of Max's life, the game is going to focus on sharing, and it won't have scenes without sharing, so either you see the sharing, or you don't have scenes.

Honestly, I think the dev can make whatever game he wants, but I'd rather he be up front and say, "I intend for X fetish to be avoidable, but then the player will have to assume he won't have sex scenes" or "The game is going to have X fetish as unavoidable" and not saying "The fetish will be avoidable, don't worry" and then it turns out to be some kind of combination of the previous statements (it can be avoided, but you won't get any scenes in return, and also the game will really have a focus where those who don't like X fetish won't feel comfortable)
 

Konstantinus

Engaged Member
Feb 25, 2019
2,284
2,050
I haven't explained well. If a girl who wasn't LI at the begining of the game has a sex scene with someone (antagonist, Uber driver, whoever) and eventually becomes LI, that scene will weigh on her character like a slab of concrete tied to the foot of someone who wants to get out of a river (or sea) for a breath of fresh air. For many she will die as LI, without being able to breath. This was what i meant. When she wasn't a LI, the scene cannot be liked to much people but it didn't bother much, once she's a LI, the scene is seen with different eyes and the Dev may have to modify that scene to silence criticism.
Reminds me of a controversy in Heavenly Peaks Cultivation. There we see a Firespirit getting raped by a scaring enemy. Later the spirit follows MC and asks for help to get free from him which align with the story. She asks for a pact which is essential like a marriage contract and after it comes the real controversy. Not only are we railroded in the choice as in Yes or No Of course you want, idiot! but she goes back to where the enemy is because if she is not there to be available when he want to rape her he will going to search and so find this. Then when we point this out, that her going back is the player getting cucked the Dev is adamantly on his opinion that this is not because Rape and Blablabla and instead of giving us the option of having her stay after the pact or even going to confront the enemy on the first contact he instead is going to rewrite the story that the firespirit whas the one originaly intruding. Additional the dev report funded and well pointed out essays why he is only writing excuses that have no hold about this as off-topic and so letting them delete just because you argue against him and he can not refute it.
 

BlasKyau

Devoted Member
Jun 26, 2018
8,038
10,579
Reminds me of a controversy in Heavenly Peaks Cultivation. There we see a Firespirit getting raped by a scaring enemy. Later the spirit follows MC and asks for help to get free from him which align with the story. She asks for a pact which is essential like a marriage contract and after it comes the real controversy. Not only are we railroded in the choice as in Yes or No Of course you want, idiot! but she goes back to where the enemy is because if she is not there to be available when he want to rape her he will going to search and so find this. Then when we point this out, that her going back is the player getting cucked the Dev is adamantly on his opinion that this is not because Rape and Blablabla and instead of giving us the option of having her stay after the pact or even going to confront the enemy on the first contact he instead is going to rewrite the story that the firespirit whas the one originaly intruding. Additional the dev report funded and well pointed out essays why he is only writing excuses that have no hold about this as off-topic and so letting them delete just because you argue against him and he can not refute it.
I had downloaded that game, but I guess I can send it to the trash.
 

Larry2000

Dev/Head Writer of Unexpected Opportunity
Game Developer
May 9, 2017
1,307
3,031
I'm not really going to argue if it's NTR or not, I don't like it and if calling it NTR prevents it from being included then I'll agree with that.
Haha! Agreed!
I haven't explained well. If a girl who wasn't LI at the begining of the game has a sex scene with someone (antagonist, Uber driver, whoever) and eventually becomes LI, that scene will weigh on her character like a slab of concrete tied to the foot of someone who wants to get out of a river (or sea) for a breath of fresh air. For many she will die as LI, without being able to breath. This was what i meant. When she wasn't a LI, the scene cannot be liked to much people but it didn't bother much, once she's a LI, the scene is seen with different eyes and the Dev may have to modify that scene to silence criticism.
Oh yeah! I think the same. Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to say "she dies as a LI" but I won't argue with it cause it's basically what happens in my eyes too.

Another trope I hate is "Rape Victim" LIs. That's one of the reasons why I can't play a game like Avalon I think it's called. The game is WHOLESOME game where the MC's (adopted) daughter is raped at the beginning. It's about healing, but I'm like "Can't deal with that." There are only few exceptions that I'd ever make with that trope.
It's possible that the Dev has a predilection for sharing and doesn't see that this type of scene may not be liked.
Maybe, that's why I think it's weird that they are asking what Love Interests and NTR are because he's worked on his game for over 5 years or something and he should know these terms by now. He should also know they are unpleasant to a LOT of people. I appreciate that he's come back to gather feedback, but I'm confused that they don't know what these things are ALREADY.
I don't think it's offtopic to ask if the game is going to be one where each sharing scene has another without that fetish (and with numerous scenes where only the MC participates without a sharing counterpart) or if, on the contrary, the idea is that, as it seems Being in chapter 4 of Max's life, the game is going to focus on sharing, and it won't have scenes without sharing, so either you see the sharing, or you don't have scenes.

Honestly, I think the dev can make whatever game he wants, but I'd rather he be up front and say, "I intend for X fetish to be avoidable, but then the player will have to assume he won't have sex scenes" or "The game is going to have X fetish as unavoidable" and not saying "The fetish will be avoidable, don't worry" and then it turns out to be some kind of combination of the previous statements (it can be avoided, but you won't get any scenes in return, and also the game will really have a focus where those who don't like X fetish won't feel comfortable)
I've only read about the sharing since I'm NOT gonna be playing another second of Max's Life, but I think in the version they worked on, it was basically a huge focus. So maybe it was to be expected at certain point. I imagine that the Dev got tired of considering the no En Tee Argh side path and just stuck to his update without caring. I completely agree, I think letting us know is easy to do.

For what it's worth, I think the Dev even ASKING about tags is a better sign then them just dropping the game on patreon and never showing up here. So I'd give them 1 more second chance. I hope Kuggazer is following this conversation.
 

BlasKyau

Devoted Member
Jun 26, 2018
8,038
10,579
Another trope I hate is "Rape Victim" LIs. That's one of the reasons why I can't play a game like Avalon I think it's called. The game is WHOLESOME game where the MC's (adopted) daughter is raped at the beginning. It's about healing, but I'm like "Can't deal with that." There are only few exceptions that I'd ever make with that trope.
I don't like rapes. I can deal with a LI who is healing from a rape done by someone other than the MC (if I don't have to watch it happen) but it isn't something that I'm passionate about. I prefer to be able to avoid it to happen.

But, in games where you can choose whether or not the MC does rapes, I really love to choose not to. I find it very rewarding.

Maybe, that's why I think it's weird that they are asking what Love Interests and NTR are because he's worked on his game for over 5 years or something and he should know these terms by now. He should also know they are unpleasant to a LOT of people. I appreciate that he's come back to gather feedback, but I'm confused that they don't know what these things are ALREADY.
Certainly, it is weird.

I've only read about the sharing since I'm NOT gonna be playing another second of Max's Life, but I think in the version they worked on, it was basically a huge focus. So maybe it was to be expected at certain point. I imagine that the Dev got tired of considering the no En Tee Argh side path and just stuck to his update without caring. I completely agree, I think letting us know is easy to do.

For what it's worth, I think the Dev even ASKING about tags is a better sign then them just dropping the game on patreon and never showing up here. So I'd give them 1 more second chance. I hope Kuggazer is following this conversation.
I'm not likely to start that game. But if this one is going to be different and the Dev makes a good path without sharing, then it may be a game I like.
 

Larry2000

Dev/Head Writer of Unexpected Opportunity
Game Developer
May 9, 2017
1,307
3,031
I don't like rapes. I can deal with a LI who is healing from a rape done by someone other than the MC (if I don't have to watch it happen) but it isn't something that I'm passionate about. I prefer to be able to avoid it to happen.

But, in games where you can choose whether or not the MC does rapes, I really love to choose not to. I find it very rewarding.



Certainly, it is weird.



I'm not likely to start that game. But if this one is going to be different and the Dev makes a good path without sharing, then it may be a game I like.
I'll probably stick around as long as the Dev does. If anything changes positively, I'll be sure to ping you :)
 
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Nospamwss

Member
Sep 6, 2017
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Maybe, that's why I think it's weird that they are asking what Love Interests and NTR are because he's worked on his game for over 5 years or something and he should know these terms by now. He should also know they are unpleasant to a LOT of people. I appreciate that he's come back to gather feedback, but I'm confused that they don't know what these things are ALREADY.
He knows everything! He's just pretending to be a fool
sorry for google translate
 
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