BumpMap and DetailGlossMap . MetaruGuide .
First of all:
If there are mistakes, please correct me. If possible, back it up with a universal source, not somebody that's using exlusively Illusion software and is using giving informations just because they are in their games for many years.
I really would like a discussion about it, so please answer (c:
Im am using and sharing a facemodel. Bone chaF_001 is modified, that it centers the face, when pressing 'R'. Just reset that bone, if you don't want that.
We have that BumpMap (and BumpMap2) in game, that is actually a NormalMap:
You must be registered to see the links
: A bump map is a grayscale image that only simulates height (like a height map, without the actual displacement) but can't show which direction a particular spot or normal as it were, is facing, while a normal map simulates the direction the normal is facing as well as the height, giving a more realistic effect.
We also have a DetailGlossMap, that shows where we want gloss AND it can serve as well as a NormalMap (as we can see, when using DetailNormalMapScale). The example will show how.
I created different maps and pushed it into her face. The left side (from camera, not her face) will get BumpMaps, the right will get NormalMaps with 100% and 50% opacity. (see attachements)
All 4 sectors are getting the those maps through BumpMap2, the lower part through BumpMap1 and the upper part will get DetailGlossMap.
3: BumpScale down, and DetailNormalMapScale up to full. This one is tough, I guess It depends on what you want. For now me personaly prefers the BumpMap (left)
4: Let's check the gloss. It seems, the gloss is depending on the alpha of the glossmap and doesn't care for the color, how nice ... Between 50% and 100% opacity, there is almost no change in the scaling or color, only the gloss is scaled, whereas between 0% and 50%, it's not scaling the gloss much more, but it changes the normals, the scaling of the map.
6: Adding Gloss to Metalic. That one shows the impact of the DetailGlossMaps transparency. Btw. outside of the shapes is pure white on all maps! I didn't check, butv that roughness should be from the maintex.
8: Scaling up the BumpScale. Doesn't change my first impression, still right. But ofc, There's no gloss on the lower half, since the DetailGlossMap is fully transparent there ...
9: Ok, now we'll get some extra bumps: BumpScale2 only half. It looks again to me, that your goal should tell you if you take the NormalMap or BumpMap as DetailGlossMap (upper half, left or right).
btw, BumpMap2 is used on the skin as: Face -> Facial type -> wrinkles; Body -> skin type -> build Scaling from -100 to 100
10: I change the grey BumpMaps on the left now to an object NormalMap (those green-yellow-red we all know fron that small standard DetailGlossMap, I used a .2 on the filenamename). I am not sure, wether that should be like that. I prefer the look of the grey BumpMap. On the other hand, using a NormalMap there has less impact on the skintone, so ...
Probably: skip BumpMaps and object NormalMaps, just stick to the allready used purple NormalMaps.
11: Finally a NormalMap on the lower half as BumpMap, a NormalMap as BumpMap2 for all 4 sectors and a greyscale BumpMap as DetailGlossMap. This one would be my favorite, but still it's situational and very subjetive. Combing those 3 maps to get some more detail instead of only one 'BumpMap' might be benefical
Even if I am not completely thinking in the wrong direction, this is far from being over. I did not check the effects with Graphicsmod, thatb might follow as well as I didn't use hanmens shaders. The AIT/Skin True Face has allready enough maps, hanmen has even more to get more confused and if I remember correct, the naming there isn't helping as well.
PS: I hope I got the stuff in the correct oder, this was a lot to just do it after finishing a nightshift
First of all:
If there are mistakes, please correct me. If possible, back it up with a universal source, not somebody that's using exlusively Illusion software and is using giving informations just because they are in their games for many years.
I really would like a discussion about it, so please answer (c:
Im am using and sharing a facemodel. Bone chaF_001 is modified, that it centers the face, when pressing 'R'. Just reset that bone, if you don't want that.
We have that BumpMap (and BumpMap2) in game, that is actually a NormalMap:
You must be registered to see the links
: A bump map is a grayscale image that only simulates height (like a height map, without the actual displacement) but can't show which direction a particular spot or normal as it were, is facing, while a normal map simulates the direction the normal is facing as well as the height, giving a more realistic effect.
We also have a DetailGlossMap, that shows where we want gloss AND it can serve as well as a NormalMap (as we can see, when using DetailNormalMapScale). The example will show how.
I created different maps and pushed it into her face. The left side (from camera, not her face) will get BumpMaps, the right will get NormalMaps with 100% and 50% opacity. (see attachements)
All 4 sectors are getting the those maps through BumpMap2, the lower part through BumpMap1 and the upper part will get DetailGlossMap.
3: BumpScale down, and DetailNormalMapScale up to full. This one is tough, I guess It depends on what you want. For now me personaly prefers the BumpMap (left)
4: Let's check the gloss. It seems, the gloss is depending on the alphe of the glossmap and doesn't care for the color, how nice ... Between 50% and 100% opacity, there is almost no change in the scaling or color, only the gloss is scaled, whereas between 0% and 50%, it's not scaling the gloss much more, but it changes the normals, the scaling of the map.
6: Adding Gloss to Metalic. That one shows the impact of the DetailGlossMaps transparency. Btw. outside of the shapes is pure white on all maps! I didn't check, butv that roughness should be from the maintex.
8: Scaling up the BumpScale. Doesn't change my first impression, still right. But ofc, There's no gloss on the lower half, since the DetailGlossMap is fully transparent there ...
9: Ok, now we'll get some extra bumps: BumpScale2 only half. It looks again to me, that your goal should tell you if you take the NormalMap or BumpMap as DetailGlossMap (upper half, left or right).
10: I change the grey BumpMaps on the left now to an object NormalMap (those green-yellow-red we all know fron that small standard DetailGlossMap, I used a .2 on the filenamename). I am not sure, wether that should be like that. I prefer the look of the grey BumpMap. On the other hand, using a NormalMap there has less impact on the skintone, so ...
Probably: skip BumpMaps and object NormalMaps, just stick to the allready used purple NormalMaps.
11: Finally a NormalMap on the lower half as BumpMap, a NormalMap as BumpMap2 for all 4 sectors and a greyscale BumpMap as DetailGlossMap. This one would be my favorite, but still it's situational and very subjetive. Combing those 3 maps to get some more detail instead of only one 'BumpMap' might be benefical
Even if I am not completely thinking in the wrong direction, this is far from being over. I did not check the effects with Graphicsmod, thatb might follow as well as I didn't use hanmens shaders. The AIT/Skin True Face has allready enough maps, hanmen has even more to get more confused and if I remember correct, the naming there isn't helping as well.
PS: I hope I got the stuff in the correct oder, this was a lot to just do it after finishing a nightshift
First of all:
If there are mistakes, please correct me. If possible, back it up with a universal source, not somebody that's using exlusively Illusion software and is using giving informations just because they are in their games for many years.
I really would like a discussion about it, so please answer (c:
Im am using and sharing a facemodel. Bone chaF_001 is modified, that it centers the face, when pressing 'R'. Just reset that bone, if you don't want that.
We have that BumpMap (and BumpMap2) in game, that is actually a NormalMap:
You must be registered to see the links
: A bump map is a grayscale image that only simulates height (like a height map, without the actual displacement) but can't show which direction a particular spot or normal as it were, is facing, while a normal map simulates the direction the normal is facing as well as the height, giving a more realistic effect.
We also have a DetailGlossMap, that shows where we want gloss AND it can serve as well as a NormalMap (as we can see, when using DetailNormalMapScale). The example will show how.
I created different maps and pushed it into her face. The left side (from camera, not her face) will get BumpMaps, the right will get NormalMaps with 100% and 50% opacity. (see attachements)
All 4 sectors are getting the those maps through BumpMap2, the lower part through BumpMap1 and the upper part will get DetailGlossMap.
3: BumpScale down, and DetailNormalMapScale up to full. This one is tough, I guess It depends on what you want. For now me personaly prefers the BumpMap (left)
4: Let's check the gloss. It seems, the gloss is depending on the alphe of the glossmap and doesn't care for the color, how nice ... Between 50% and 100% opacity, there is almost no change in the scaling or color, only the gloss is scaled, whereas between 0% and 50%, it's not scaling the gloss much more, but it changes the normals, the scaling of the map.
6: Adding Gloss to Metalic. That one shows the impact of the DetailGlossMaps transparency. Btw. outside of the shapes is pure white on all maps! I didn't check, butv that roughness should be from the maintex.
8: Scaling up the BumpScale. Doesn't change my first impression, still right. But ofc, There's no gloss on the lower half, since the DetailGlossMap is fully transparent there ...
9: Ok, now we'll get some extra bumps: BumpScale2 only half. It looks again to me, that your goal should tell you if you take the NormalMap or BumpMap as DetailGlossMap (upper half, left or right).
10: I change the grey BumpMaps on the left now to an object NormalMap (those green-yellow-red we all know fron that small standard DetailGlossMap, I used a .2 on the filenamename). I am not sure, wether that should be like that. I prefer the look of the grey BumpMap. On the other hand, using a NormalMap there has less impact on the skintone, so ...
Probably: skip BumpMaps and object NormalMaps, just stick to the allready used purple NormalMaps.
11: Finally a NormalMap on the lower half as BumpMap, a NormalMap as BumpMap2 for all 4 sectors and a greyscale BumpMap as DetailGlossMap. This one would be my favorite, but still it's situational and very subjetive. Combing those 3 maps to get some more detail instead of only one 'BumpMap' might be benefical
Even if I am not completely thinking in the wrong direction, this is far from being over. I did not check the effects with Graphicsmod, thatb might follow as well as I didn't use hanmens shaders. The AIT/Skin True Face has allready enough maps, hanmen has even more to get more confused and if I remember correct, the naming there isn't helping as well.
PS: I hope I got the stuff in the correct oder, this was a lot to just do it after finishing a nightshift
Very nice work. Thank you for taking the time and the effort you put in. I think I will need to go over and read this post many times. lol
It's very common unfortunately that people use the words normalmap and bumpmap sloppy interchangeably wich makes it confusing. The game engine of HS2 ( I know it's unity but must be daft version), use weird looking "bumpmaps" for example the areola and nipples, that use different colors than what you would expect. I don't like most of the nipples in HS2 and I want to create my own but because of the weird texture I don't know yet how they work. I have experimented a lot but it's a real hit and miss process and I'm not happy with any of them yet. I like Nipples that are "rosy" or pink that has small bumps on them.
Nipple texture in HS2.
Regarding roughness, some game engines doesn't use roughness but you can use the texture as glossmap by inverting them or so I've been told.
A free tool for creating bumpmaps and other textures:
You must be registered to see the links
You must be registered to see the links
Some documents and tutorials about Materials and Textures:
You must be registered to see the links
It's a Youtube tutorial centered around maya but the info applies to everything.
Very nice work. Thank you for taking the time and the effort you put in. I think I will need to go over and read this post many times. lol
It's very common unfortunately that people use the words normalmap and bumpmap sloppy interchangeably wich makes it confusing. The game engine of HS2 ( I know it's unity but must be daft version), use weird looking "bumpmaps" for example the areola and nipples, that use different colors than what you would expect. I don't like most of the nipples in HS2 and I want to create my own but because of the weird texture I don't know yet how they work. I have experimented a lot but it's a real hit and miss process and I'm not happy with any of them yet.
I know some of the guides and some I started to read, then quickly skipped over the pages, because it didn't fit to what I was searching. Starlenes guide for example is pretty nice, but it from 2018 and it was for HS1. Additionally he stated himself throughout that guide:
I'm a beginner with a mere 3 months experience under his belt
I love those guides, but they are old, they are for different versions, they are not redacted and refreshed. So errors and missing informations in guides from years ago keep being spread, because I don't dare to ask or try myself: Those guys will know what they are talking about ...
To some extend, that is also true for Hoohs guides (or it's my premium SDA membership) when he's talking about textures and channels.
that's why, after 1 year, I need to ask and fill some holes
BumpMap and DetailGlossmap 2. MetaruGuide .
I went a bit on today. (again a bit overscaling for science)
So we want a nice skins with detailed pores? ok, I'm away from big glossmaps, because that's where they go. And ,... if I do a nice smooth skin, with small pores and a bit of detailed gloss on top,... why do I put a a shitload of pimples and stuff on top of that?
So I did a new glossmap (yours was nice Fox, but I had the impression, your base was a cloth fabric. It looked a bit geometric )
A tip I learned before: I don't know why. I never got it right and all other glossmaps seem the same: They look better, when you inverse them. So scale a bit and then a minus in front. This picture is with -0.4.
Then I took Fox' Bumpmap of ~ 60mb. I took only the mouth, nose, eyes and ear-parts, then rest to neutral (flat) desaturated, normalmapped, é voila: smooth face with details. The map doesn't need 8k, so down to 4k: 6.7 mb
A few things about the maps I added today:
the neutral is a RGB of 0.5 0.5 1 (BLUE). If you create that with Blender or GIMP or Photoshop, you need to watch, that you are using the right colorspace, or it's adding values, that are messing the normals. You need linear light, not perceived, in Blender there is something like 'non-color' as an option you'll need. Additionally, on Gimp you should give it a bit of exposure ( 0.454 ) to get the right shade.
Remember, there's still the BumpMap2 (wrinkles) that can be used to add more details or take the existing ones.
(might have a look, to add a few, those shouldn't be harder then makeup, paints or tans ...)
Ok, that's it for now. I guess, when I'm done, have all the backup I want, I have to right it all together again.
I ran across the bodacious Anastasiya Berthier when I was looking at images for "research" ahem..
Decided to give it a crack. I started out with Plaine Jane 2,0 Base and used mainly 2 images as reference.
Here's what I got so far, not done with her yet. Keep in mind the limitations of the game and also me of course...lol
Perhaps not the best angle but I tried to imitate the pose of the second photo as much as the game allows me.
DetailGlossMap . MetaruGuide .
And agin a few steps done. Some work on the DetailGlossMap. Still fighting the 'shadow' it does, but what do I expect for a texture that simulates how light is reflected?
Remember:
the gloss is depending on the alpha of the glossmap and doesn't care for the color, how nice ... Between 50% and 100% opacity, there is almost no change in the scaling or color, only the gloss is scaled, whereas between 0% and 50%, it's not scaling the gloss much more
This one is at the moment the best I could manage, to get something better then the yellow noise we only have til now.
(I hope btw, to be able to throw this all together in a skinmod)
In this is just an idea, about adding just the bumpmap2 (If I would just have a proper one) That will still take a bit,, until I have figured that out. Don't get me wron, I appreciate the accuracy of Hanmens textures or the mood of Nyacho, but I feel like there are more options to use for more customization or increase performance.
And since I need some distraction here and there I played a bit with nipples ( yeah, right .... ofc ...)
I got some insight about that. The textures are pretty simple, can even be greyscale (like example 3). It just picks the outsidecolor as the transparent, as long as it's dark enough (below 50% luminoosity)everything that is 'light' will get the color you pick, depending on how light it is.
A propos example. I've put them together in a quick testmod to have a look. That's not a really release , just a working alpha. You only have to rename it, we can't upload .zipmod, only zip
PS: That is btw, what I was referring to, when I said, I personally don't like the cache-mode for adds. The loading of the game will take ~ 2.30 minutes instead of a bit more then a minute I have now. When I check the graphics of those mods, I'm doing it ingame, That's dozens of restarts every time I going for mods ...
Awsome job Herb! I love that you keep at it. More brains better soup, or how did that one go again...
I learn a lot from your exploration. Hopefully I will be able to start make things as well in this vain, the stuff that I envision
and without adding a huge file size...
The Gimp
Got some training in the past and started again last year.
And before somebody else is metioning it: Yes, neither photoshop nor gimp are the best options for those maps, but with some practice, you can get good results especially for the simple maps.
The thing with the filesize is, why I target a mod. That's how it started for me anyway. Overlays were to big, so I had to lear to create mods for smaller cards
Mr-Fox that realistic female card got me move sliders on my talent towards what you had in Ms. Jane Fox and boy, did it make the girls more realistic. Just shortening the legs alone accomplished a lot. Subtle change, but a major impact improvement. (Is anyone else allergic to the word "impact"?)
PS How did you make a shorter chara stick to the floor in the maker? Mine is hovering 12 cm in the air above the plate. Hmm, may be I should disable the plate?
Mr-Fox that realistic female card got me move sliders on my talent towards what you had in Ms. Jane Fox and boy, did it make the girls more realistic. Just shortening the legs alone accomplished a lot. Subtle change, but a major impact improvement. (Is anyone else allergic to the word "impact"?)
PS How did you make a shorter chara stick to the floor in the maker? Mine is hovering 12 cm in the air above the plate. Hmm, may be I should disable the plate?
This is the best answer still existing to this theme (naturally from Mr-Fox ) https://f95zone.to/threads/illusion...lect-2-card-sharing-thread.44248/post-8348124
I have archivated more links to this discussion, especially one good reply of Herbmentaru, unfortunately they all seem to by deleted be mods - sometimes the mods overshoot the target
This is the best answer still existing to this theme (naturally from Mr-Fox ) https://f95zone.to/threads/illusion...lect-2-card-sharing-thread.44248/post-8348124
I have archivated more links to this discussion, especially one good reply of Herbmentaru, unfortunately they all seem to by deleted be mods - sometimes the mods overshoot the target
