Hazardgaming

Member
Jul 29, 2018
124
136
I’m surprised that there wasn’t an option to have her executed. Sort of like a middle ground in which justice is served without either perpetuating the cycle of revenge or letting it go largely unpunished.

That to me, would have been the most rational and justifiable thing to do.
 

jadepaladin

Engaged Member
Mar 9, 2020
2,464
5,125
I’m surprised that there wasn’t an option to have her executed. Sort of like a middle ground in which justice is served without either perpetuating the cycle of revenge or letting it go largely unpunished.

That to me, would have been the most rational and justifiable thing to do.
Several of MC's group wanted her executed (Lady Blaze, etc) but MC auto shot it down. There was that whole discussion about how the slave seal is worse than death.
 
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Sneak Monkey

Active Member
Apr 2, 2018
610
716
Just played through the scene with the princess. What the actual fuck man.

I'm all for revenge, but this is some psychotic shit. Not only was the scene very messed up, it has issues with the narrative which I'll go over in just a bit. But the one thing that I detested the most was the fact that there's no alternative scene for different routes, only for scumbag.

As for the narrative problems with the scene: the MC "justifies" his torture + rape by saying she's a lying bitch and he wouldn't believe a word out of her mouth anyway. Problem here is that she has a slave seal and is incapable of lying to him if he so wishes. Second problem is that while she indeed did many shitty things and absolutely deserves to be punished, she's not the one who perpetrates the acts nor is she the one being cruel. She's not even the one behind these happenings, the one that is responsible for the experiments. She's not the mastermind - her father is, with Lucius being her father's tool of choice.

She allows it to happen though, which, again, needs to be punished for sure, but what was implemented was a massive psychotic episode, no room for any nuance.

Look, one of the greatest evils that exist is the evil that becomes "banal". Banalization of evil - when people don't move/act to stop horrible acts, and passively condone/allow horrible shit to go down without doing anything about it, especially if they hold power - usually under the pretense of "I'm just following orders" or "I didn't have a choice" or "It's not my business" or "It doesn't affect me".

If the princess was indeed a psychotic freak, then... fine. I wouldn't have liked the scene but in some messed up way I feel it could be seen as justified. But she isn't - her father and Lucius are.

While the arena scene was getting wrapped up, the first thing on my mind was Lucius. As soon as the guards came around to "greet the new lord" I thought MC would ask them to seek out and capture Lucius immediately. But instead MC only thought about him, what, 2 days after?

Anyhow, the princess only tells you of her motivations if you choose to listen to her. But even if you'd want to go the torture route, the justification of "you're lying and I don't believe you" is ridiculously weak and makes the MC as bad as, if not worse than she is.

Holy shit, what a let down. And the scene is pretty hot too - the animations, pose variations, and camera angles. But that context killed not only the scene, but a good portion of the narrative for me. I absolutely want revenge on her, but this ain't it.

My overall rating of the game dropped significantly after this. In one of my previous posts I mentioned how the karma system is frustrating, yeah? Well, this is exactly the kind of scene that should be locked behind 55+ ruthlessness points. More because of the narrative context (the MC would have to be a scumbag consistently to get that far and do the things he does to her) than because of the content of the scene itself.

If not locked behind a wall of scumbag points, then I'd expect, at least, some variations in the text, dialog and actions based off how many points you have.

And the lack of alternative scene for the other route is just a twisting of the knife.
Gotta say it was a pretty big issue for me too. This is a game with the potential for greatness, let down by hastily thought out moments like this. The rape was straight up insane. Mr nice guy to completely unhinged. Maybe some people enjoy that but I didn't, frankly both routes, the sit down and really nicely listen, and psycho rapey mc fuckalot should be scrapped in favour of a balanced and well thought out reasonable middle ground.

Several things about the writing have really let this project down for me. Such as the cults... why is one a temple which seems to have a genuinely useful purpose yet Inanna's temple is literally just a free brothel? Wtf? I mean c'mon, put some more effort in than that, surely you can come up with a better idea than just a free brothel. Like a temple that trains warriors or something that would be genuinely helpful for a ruler to consider supporting. I wouldn't visit a free brothel anyway so the only possible excuse of players might want more smut, still doesn't entice me. I even paid dog girly to run away. Prostitution really isn't sexy, free prostitution is just free crabs... I don't want crabs.

The game really does have a lot going for it, some of the characters are great, I love the romantic side of it but really wish the dev would just focus up and stop trying to do too many things at once, it just becomes a mess.
 

jadepaladin

Engaged Member
Mar 9, 2020
2,464
5,125
Gotta say it was a pretty big issue for me too. This is a game with the potential for greatness, let down by hastily thought out moments like this. The rape was straight up insane. Mr nice guy to completely unhinged. Maybe some people enjoy that but I didn't, frankly both routes, the sit down and really nicely listen, and psycho rapey mc fuckalot should be scrapped in favour of a balanced and well thought out reasonable middle ground.

Several things about the writing have really let this project down for me. Such as the cults... why is one a temple which seems to have a genuinely useful purpose yet Inanna's temple is literally just a free brothel? Wtf? I mean c'mon, put some more effort in than that, surely you can come up with a better idea than just a free brothel. Like a temple that trains warriors or something that would be genuinely helpful for a ruler to consider supporting. I wouldn't visit a free brothel anyway so the only possible excuse of players might want more smut, still doesn't entice me. I even paid dog girly to run away. Prostitution really isn't sexy, free prostitution is just free crabs... I don't want crabs. So all in all I reckon it's got a lot going for it, some of the characters are great, I love the romantic side of it but really wish the dev would just focus up and stop trying to do too many things at once, it just becomes a mess.
It was covered in the story. Inanna's temples are morale boosters. Medieval life, so when guys want to destress, they go to the nearby temple and partake. Also, Inanna isn't as popular as the other goddess because of history. The MC is slightly skewed against Ea too, believing she put him at risk (until he finds out later that she might not have done it on purpose).
 
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prpa

Member
Donor
Nov 29, 2016
426
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Gotta say it was a pretty big issue for me too. This is a game with the potential for greatness, let down by hastily thought out moments like this. The rape was straight up insane. Mr nice guy to completely unhinged. Maybe some people enjoy that but I didn't, frankly both routes, the sit down and really nicely listen, and psycho rapey mc fuckalot should be scrapped in favour of a balanced and well thought out reasonable middle ground.
I didn’t have an issue with the "sit down and listen" part, I actually think it suited the compassionate MC well, and the scene overall was really nice in my opinion. However, the rape part felt completely out of place, especially for a compassionate MC. It definitely needs to be gated behind high ruthless points.
 

jadepaladin

Engaged Member
Mar 9, 2020
2,464
5,125
I didn’t have an issue with the "sit down and listen" part, I actually think it suited the compassionate MC well, and the scene overall was really nice in my opinion. However, the rape part felt completely out of place, especially for a compassionate MC. It definitely needs to be gated behind high ruthless points.
High ruthless and that vengeance flag I'd say.
 

Sneak Monkey

Active Member
Apr 2, 2018
610
716
It was covered in the story. Inanna's temples are morale boosters. Medieval life, so when guys want to destress, they go to the nearby temple and partake. Also, Inanna isn't as popular as the other goddess because of history. The MC is slightly skewed against Ea too, believing she put him at risk (until he finds out later that she might not have done it on purpose).
Covered doesn't mean it works or isn't lazy... Sex cults have existed many times in the past but just writing it as a brothel for blokes to go to for a quicky to de-stress is just lazy. There's so much in real world history that could be taken from to inspire something worth putting in, this failed.
 
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Wolfeszorn

Active Member
Jul 24, 2021
889
3,109
Yeah. Just passed the Rape scene and i have to agree with previous comments. Being presented with that kind of choice in a good guy playthrough just doesn´t feel right. It´s utterly disgusting and almost killed the game for me. Talking to her instead felt like the right thing to do.

On the upside, Kayane.... Kayane is my new Emily. Emilia is nice and all, but i´m just more into cat girls than vampires. ;)
I hope at some point MC is able to heal her and possibly bring back her tail. That´d be the cherry on top for me :D
And i have to admit, usually i mute the sounds right away, but i was interested in the nya/purring sounds and dude, you nailed it. I just love her :D

Oh, and small slapstick moments like the two priestresses sprinting towards the camera just make my day :D
Keep up the great work minus disgusting rape scenes during a good guy playthrough and i might consider subbing next update (y)
 

Ka1tzer

Member
Jan 12, 2023
338
903
What a bunch of nonsense is this? I can't even point out what exactly you are unhappy with. The fact that MC has bad or stupid reason to rape Regina? Well, I have a couple of news for you: first, there is actualy no legitimate or smart enough reason to rape anyone at all. It's not something you can rationalize. The real reason MC does it is because he is a dick and feels like doing it.
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That's it. People do irrational shit all the time, don't see a problem with that. Second, you push the buttons! Nobody is forcing you to see this scene. You playing one of the few games on this site with some actual choices and unhappy that you can make some choices you don't like? The only thing I can agree with is that this scene should be locked behind sufficient karma points, just like scene with a Manon later, but it's not a huge problem.

As for the alternative scene, I'm pretty sure there would be plenty of scenes that are available only to compassionate MC later. How do you imagine an alternative scene at this point of the story? "Thank you duke for listening to me vent my trauma and not torturing me, can I lick your balls?"
Oh boy, I really didn't want to write another wall of text but I suppose I'll just make peace with the fact that I'm yappi as fuck.


I'd agree with the first paragraph if the scene was locked, but it's not. I'll chalk it up to being an oversight and give the benefit of the doubt, since that breaks the experience of any run in which we're not playing a scumbag MC in a thousand pieces.

This extends to the justification the MC uses. Doesn't need to be rational, but the implementation just comes across as him being stupid.

"You push the buttons!" is a meh argument at best, because even though it is true, I can only select the buttons that are presented for me, as a player, to press. And I'd trust that the options presented would not completely shatter the expected experience. I was trusting the dev, after so many people kept singing the praises of this game and the previous one, saying that despite the game having a lot of controversial content it was delivered in a way that suited the player's preferences and playstyles.

Now before all this gets chalked up and summed up to a simple "so it's just an easy to solve karma system unbalance, just lock the scene up and call it a day", I'll go ahead and say that no it's not. For a couple different reasons.

The first one relates to player experience with a preference for one specific playstyle/route/content over others (and it has to do with the update as a whole, not just that scene) - it feels like if you're not engaging with very specific and highly controversial content and/or playstyle you get significantly less content. In the long run it'll all probably even out (assuming the next update will have a lot of locked content for compassion routes and very little for scumbag), but the player experience throughout all this SUCKS.

Like I said in an analogy regarding controversial content and why it tends to turn into a heated debate, everybody needs to wait for the "entire meal to be cooked" - but in the case of this update, some people are eating far better than others. All this is meta, sure, but it's still relevant.

You also made the point of me requesting scenes for alternative routes seem silly (your example ("Thank you duke for listening to me vent my trauma and not torturing me, can I lick your balls?") boiled down to "how would you expect the princess to have a compassion-route scene at this point?", yeah?). And if I was specifically saying that the same character needs to have alternative scenes for all routes at once, then yeah, that'd be silly - it makes no sense for the princess to get action atm without her being forced into it at this point in time.

But have you considered that there are other characters in the game that could have an exclusive compassion scene right now? No? Shocker. Take Manon's scene for example - that didn't need to be yet another scumbag scene. It could be shaped into a longer "good boy" scene where the MC goes down on her and helps her get more self confident with her body. Did that happen? No, it was a double down on scumbag. Did it need to be? No.

And what about dog-girl? There's already an exclusive scumbag scene there as well (and it makes sense in the context). But could she have made an appearance this chapter for a compassion route scene? Or what about the elf we (possibly) helped escape on update 1 in Cascus? Now, I'm sure that at least for the dog-girl the dev has some plans in store for her since she's even in the LI list, but hopefully you get my point.

What about Selene? MC could've made her start to open up through the compassionate route too. Honestly, it'd make a lot of sense, especially if it happened BECAUSE we didn't torture the princess. Alas, all these are "what-ifs" and hold no value, but I hope it drives home the point of WHY this update, and more specifically that princess scene, felt like a kick in the balls.

-------

Now the second point, and I can't stress this one enough: a lot of people, including people on compassionate playthroughs, wants to punish the Princess. She deserves punishment. But what we got was WAY off the mark with NO SATISFYING ALTERNATIVE. Either embrace being a psychotic sadist, OR embrace your messiah complex.

JUSTICE does NOT equal mercy or clemency. Sometimes it means being firm, heartless or even ruthless (which is not what happens in the scene. That was straight up psychopathy). It's doling out punishment when deserved and rewards when appropriate. And yes, REVENGE doesn't mean JUSTICE either, but at least they are not mutually exclusive, and someone who's on a neutral/good playthrough would attempt to justify that revenge with as many layers of "justice" as they can (even if, at the end of the day, it's self-serving because I agree with you that people are selfish , oftentimes irrational and contradictory). But that scene was just "schadenfreudean sadism".

"What would be appropriate as punishment for non-psychos then"? I can think of many things, most of them abusing the fact that she has a slave seal. For example: she caused ppl in Cascus to fall into coma so, as punishment, she's not allowed to sit down, nor lie down, nor sleep. If she does, then she'd receive a jolt of pain from the slave seal. MC could/should've also given her a standing order that she is never, under any circumstances allowed to lie to him, then proceed to ask and probe her for any and all info he could regarding her father and Lucius, extract any and all her secrets.

She could be made to eat only once every 2 or 3 days, and only from the slave bowl, and have her walked to the middle of the town square to be fed. Have you watched Game of Thrones? There was an event labeled "the walk of penance" (I think) that Cersei was forced to go through.

And I'm sure there are MANY other ways that revenge could be had without having to abandon any and all semblance of empathy. That didn't have to be turned into torture when the narrative for that chosen playthrough doesn't support it.
 
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Xythurr

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,612
3,439
Oh boy, I really didn't want to write another wall of text but I suppose I'll just make peace with the fact that I'm yappi as fuck.


I'd agree with the first paragraph if the scene was locked, but it's not. I'll chalk it up to being an oversight and give the benefit of the doubt, since that breaks the experience of any run in which we're not playing a scumbag MC in a thousand pieces.

This extends to the justification the MC uses. Doesn't need to be rational, but the implementation just comes across as him being stupid.

"You push the buttons!" is a meh argument at best, because even though it is true, I can only select the buttons that are presented for me, as a player, to press. And I'd trust that the options presented would not completely shatter the expected experience. I was trusting the dev, after so many people kept singing the praises of this game and the previous one, saying that despite the game having a lot of controversial content it was delivered in a way that suited the player's preferences and playstyles.

Now before all this gets chalked up and summed up to a simple "so it's just an easy to solve karma system unbalance, just lock the scene up and call it a day", I'll go ahead and say that no it's not. For a couple different reasons.

The first one relates to player experience with a preference for one specific playstyle/route/content over others (and it has to do with the update as a whole, not just that scene) - it feels like if you're not engaging with very specific and highly controversial content and/or playstyle you get significantly less content. In the long run it'll all probably even out (assuming the next update will have a lot of locked content for compassion routes and very little for scumbag), but the player experience throughout all this SUCKS.

Like I said in an analogy regarding controversial content and why it tends to turn into a heated debate, everybody needs to wait for the "entire meal to be cooked" - but in the case of this update, some people are eating far better than others. All this is meta, sure, but it's still relevant.

You also made the point of me requesting scenes for alternative routes seem silly (your example ("Thank you duke for listening to me vent my trauma and not torturing me, can I lick your balls?") boiled down to "how would you expect the princess to have a compassion-route scene at this point?", yeah?). And if I was specifically saying that the same character needs to have alternative scenes for all routes at once, then yeah, that'd be silly - it makes no sense for the princess to get action atm without her being forced into it at this point in time.

But have you considered that there are other characters in the game that could have an exclusive compassion scene right now? No? Shocker. Take Manon's scene for example - that didn't need to be yet another scumbag scene. It could be shaped into a longer "good boy" scene where the MC goes down on her and helps her get more self confident with her body. Did that happen? No, it was a double down on scumbag. Did it need to be? No.

And what about dog-girl? There's already an exclusive scumbag scene there as well (and it makes sense in the context). But could she have made an appearance this chapter for a compassion route scene? Or what about the elf we (possibly) helped escape on update 1 in Cascus? Now, I'm sure that at least for the dog-girl the dev has some plans in store for her since she's even in the LI list, but hopefully you get my point.

What about Selene? MC could've made her start to open up through the compassionate rote too. Honestly, it'd make a lot of sense, especially if it happened BECAUSE we didn't torture the princess. Alas, all these are "what-ifs" and hold no value, but I hope it drives home the point of WHY this event felt like a kick in the balls.

-------

Now the second point, and I can't stress this one enough: a lot of people, including people on compassionate playthroughs, wants to punish the Princess. She deserves punishment. But what we got was WAY off the mark with NO SATISFYING ALTERNATIVE. Either embrace being a psychotic sadist, OR embrace your messiah complex.

JUSTICE does NOT equal mercy or clemency. Sometimes it means being firm, heartless or even ruthless (which is not what happens in the scene. That was straight up psychopathy). It's doling out punishment when deserved and rewards when appropriate. And yes, REVENGE doesn't mean JUSTICE either, but at least they are not mutually exclusive, and someone who's on a neutral/good playthrough would attempt to justify that revenge with as many layers of "justice" as they can (even if, at the end of the day, it's self-serving because I agree with you that people are selfish , oftentimes irrational and contradictory). But that scene was just "schadenfreudean sadism".

"What would be appropriate as punishment for non-psychos then"? I can think of many things, most of them abusing the fact that she has a slave seal. For example: she caused ppl in Cascus to fall into coma so, as punishment, she's not allowed to sit down, nor lie down, nor sleep. If she does, then she'd receive a jolt of pain from the slave seal. MC could/should've also given her a standing order that she is never, under any circumstances allowed to lie to him, then proceed to ask and probe her for any and all info he could regarding her father and Lucius, extract any and all her secrets.

She could be made to eat only once every 2 or 3 days, and only from the slave bowl, and have her walked to the middle of the town square to be fed. Have you watched Game of Thrones? There was an event labeled "the walk of penance" (I think) that Cersei was forced to go through.

And I'm sure there are MANY other ways that revenge could be had without having to abandon any and all semblance of empathy. That didn't have to be turned into torture when the narrative for that chosen playthrough doesn't support it.
Brilliantly put! You sum up my feelings in a way that I never could. I wanted to punish the princess and I expected to be able to do so with the humiliation aspect of the MC sexually dominating her.
Where she would hate the fact that her body likes it but slowly succumb to him like what would be believable in a porn game.
Her disgrace is punishment enough.
She in not an entirely evil or unsympathetic figure and it's clear the king is the true evil here. She is a broken woman with a serious disability trying to please her abusive father.
Even if I was on that asshole path (Which I'll never play because how could someone be mean to Sylvia!?) That scene is way too much and represents a major tonal shift from the one the game has had up to that point.
It's plain evil and gross and IMO people that get off on shit like that should get some help. It was a disgusting scene and I had hoped that the scene would shift as the MC had a bout of guilt or something but nope.
I had to reload and go the talking route.
 

prpa

Member
Donor
Nov 29, 2016
426
1,472
Brilliantly put! You sum up my feelings in a way that I never could. I wanted to punish the princess and I expected to be able to do so with the humiliation aspect of the MC sexually dominating her.
Where she would hate the fact that her body likes it but slowly succumb to him like what would be believable in a porn game.
Her disgrace is punishment enough.
She in not an entirely evil or unsympathetic figure and it's clear the king is the true evil here. She is a broken woman with a serious disability trying to please her abusive father.
Even if I was on that asshole path (Which I'll never play because how could someone be mean to Sylvia!?) That scene is way too much and represents a major tonal shift from the one the game has had up to that point.
It's plain evil and gross and IMO people that get off on shit like that should get some help. It was a disgusting scene and I had hoped that the scene would shift as the MC had a bout of guilt or something but nope.
I had to reload and go the talking route.
Yeah, she's broken, she even admits that whatever the MC went through, she probably suffered much worse. I mean, she was the subject of experiments even before they started testing on anyone else. Admittedly, I'm a bit of a softie, so even if there are other forms of punishments down the line, I probably won't be the one to dole them out to her. I also really like morally grey characters, so I know I'm probably going to like her a lot in the future.
 
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Lebeaubrun

Active Member
Oct 27, 2019
518
546
tons of ai cgs in this one, id add the tag even if they are only used for exposition its still very prevalent
 

syuura1

Member
Aug 21, 2019
146
144
Just finished, and fantastic game so far. Quick bug I'd like to report: Clicking on Selene's sexuality page results in a crash.
 
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Yarazin

Member
Dec 2, 2022
350
946
What I really disliked was that the lactation content wasn't made optional since it's definitely not one of my kinks and I don't find it particularly pleasing to the eyes. Not making fetishes such as these optional may drive some people away (I'll just speed through since the rest of the game is excellent, but the point still stands).
I haven't finished the update yet, just got to this part and was very turned off. Came here to comment and see if anyone agreed with me. It seems odd the dev is not making this optional. And quite frustrating. Will FF through it as well. Disappointing in a otherwise fun update so far.

Ok, back to it.
 
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Xill

Engaged Member
Jan 10, 2018
2,385
3,839
Basically, the rape needs to be locked behind ruthless points, and maybe a choice or two about wanting revenge against her. It's less about how messed up it is, but more about consistency. Without consistency the choices become less of a narrative point and more of a "sex scene gallery" choice.
 
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Grimmzzz1

Member
Nov 27, 2020
206
670
Love the ruthless path so far a lot. It actually feels truly ruthless, just wish it was a little more than just rape and a few agressive sex scenes. Anyways thus far on this website, there isn't a lot of games that feature ruthlessness but this is pretty dang good.
 
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