Just a quick question.. is there a way to put custom gif files into content/pic subfolders and have the game load them? I know how to do pngs, but not gif files.
- Aug 1, 2017
- 1,567
- 1,697
Yes of course! Just show the "extension of file names" in windows (do you know how to do that?), then rename the files you want to add like the file you want to replace. So if just rename your new "bj_brown_long_young.gif" to "bj_brown_long_young.png" and the game will read them (and it will read the animation too)
Oh excellent, confirmed it working. Pretty neat how it recognizes and loads png-named gif files. Thank you very much!
Only one of the execution pictures seems to be used for each category of girl, per type of execution. Is this intended? There appear to be more pictures in the pics folder.
- Aug 1, 2017
- 1,567
- 1,697
I don't really understand what you mean. Can you take screenshots, and explain how it should be in your opinion, and how it is actually?
Every time I execute someone, for example a young slave by decapitation, it always displays the image decapitation_general_young, and not decapitation_general_young2 or any of the other ones. This happens for the types of execution and ages of slave, with the only images being used the executiontype_general_age images.
Edit: The monster execution images do vary among the 3.
Edit: The monster execution images do vary among the 3.
I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure this is Jack-o-Nine tails's built in image randomizer system doing exactly the thing it's not supposed to do.
The game has a hard-coded way of randomizing some pictures, executions pics being one of them. But it's doing a really bad job at it. I had kind of the same issue when doing the new image showing system. It just replaced whatever I wanted show with whatever it wanted to.
The reason why monster pics show right is because they don't use the normal pic showing system. Why? Don't ask me, I'd like to know why too
One of it's other "fun" ways of fucking the game up is going into what I like to call "general mode", where it will only show general pics. Idk what triggers it, idk how to get out of it. But it's there.
Anyway, it's not going to happen starting from the next version.
- Aug 1, 2017
- 1,567
- 1,697
Oh!! I remember pulling my hair out on the edge_of_mists picture. In the qsp, it says it's randomized between the two, but in my game I'd only see one. But randomly after starting a new game, I'd get "edge_of_mists2" and it'd stay forever in that new save.I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure this is Jack-o-Nine tails's built in image randomizer system doing exactly the thing it's not supposed to do.
The game has a hard-coded way of randomizing some pictures, executions pics being one of them. But it's doing a really bad job at it. I had kind of the same issue when doing the new image showing system. It just replaced whatever I wanted show with whatever it wanted to.
The reason why monster pics show right is because they don't use the normal pic showing system. Why? Don't ask me, I'd like to know why too
One of it's other "fun" ways of fucking the game up is going into what I like to call "general mode", where it will only show general pics. Idk what triggers it, idk how to get out of it. But it's there.
Anyway, it's not going to happen starting from the next version.
Yeah.. it was really frustrating.. I was sitting down, having the dumbest look on my face looking at a randomized picture from this system while the debug msg was saying my code got a different picture. Then I tried to force it to pick one specific picture and still didn't work. Thank god for Pararock who showed me the code it the .dll cause I honestly thought I was going crazyOh!! I remember pulling my hair out on the edge_of_mists picture. In the qsp, it says it's randomized between the two, but in my game I'd only see one. But randomly after starting a new game, I'd get "edge_of_mists2" and it'd stay forever in that new save.
.Fuck that piece of code.
- Dec 3, 2019
- 38
- 16
Sorry, @qwertyu12359 and @Pianocat... been inactive on the platform here for quite sometime due to quarantine. Just remembered that I can log into the site here using my work laptop earlier (not for gaming, just good enough for doing documents).So, five months later... I don't know where you are about it, kyoto_leon, but I was interesting too by updating the avatars of the 2.1, to give them the same flavor than in the original game
I used the .psd file you uploaded and which is in the 1.7.5. With this it's possible to obtain the same render than in the original game (I had to fiddle with it, because there was something wrong with this .psd...).
Also, I find a way to automate the process, making it veeeeeeery quick to update a whole bunch of pics, using the marvelous ImageMagick.
There is a drawback using ImageMagick : some layers can't be included into the process. So the rendered pics are a bit below the original ones. I think it's a little price to pay, giving it will be something like 100x faster to upgrade the avatars this way. Here are the original pic, and the new one:
View attachment 657458
View attachment 657457
So, if people here are happy with this render (don't hesitate to give suggestions !), I could quickly create the new avatars. About the Sepia and B&W versions, it will need a small adjustement, but it should be quite easy to update the pics with the same process.
The question is about the .json files: we will have to update them to. It can be done en masse with notepad++, but Qwertyu told me that you are currently working on them, Lokplart : can I modify them, or are you currently editing them ? If yes, I can just edit the colored avatars, and keep the other versions for later
I've been stuck in the company's dormitory since early this year (around mid of Feb 2020), not able to go back to my apartment and desktop computer at home. So... before the quarantine here ends, I can't really do much since I don't have photoshop on my laptop here.
And on your portraits, your version is actually how I remembered them from the old 1.7 versions. This looks much better and more closer to the original aesthetics. I say you'll be the better person for the job than me, Pianocat.
It's happy that you mention the psd in your message, I couldn't achieve a similar result without it! Even like that, I had to remove a lot of layers from the original .psd, just keeping the main ones...
But after a long headache around sepia pics with Qwertyu, the new av should be ready soon
But after a long headache around sepia pics with Qwertyu, the new av should be ready soon
true
there's reason I post at all after so many years too, is good game trapped inside bad game. huge potential.
<look below>
death from overwork very real. but look at numbers in article you posted, please! one victim worked 110 hours PER WEEK. other example young woman working 34 hour SHIFTS. Not hours per week, 34 hours IN A ROW. Probably no breaks. I've done that before, working 40 hours in single stretch. You don't understand what tired means until you are too tired to sleep. also have done 100-120 work weeks. for many months. probably lost years of my life from overwork.
Compare this to work demanded of slaves in JONT! first apartment characterized as shitty shoebox (forget phrasing), slave told to clean it can kill slave?? pretend apartment is smaller than 73sqm average size Tokyo apartment (750 sq feet), maybe half size.
38 sqm apartment is 6.18 meters square, about 20 feet square. if you has square feet 20 room in your home, get timer and measure how long to sweep it, scrub floor, do dishes for 2 people. maybe 1 hour of work. carrying water from outside adds tiny bit of work (I have done that), boiling on fire can be done while sweeping floor. carry water to cesspit and dump not harder than carrying in (but I have not done that). many cities people dumped grey water out windows, no hauling needed to dump.
laundry is harder work. maybe 2 hours without any machines to do laundry for 2, but only need to do that once every 2 weeks. wearing clothes more than one day isn't a problem.
add slave doing lessons maybe 4 hours a day and sexual services 2 hours a day, that's not even a full 8 hour work day. plus sexual services and lessons not hard labor. chinese restaurant harder work than JONT slave and look how old they get before retiring.
now look at real hard work. coal miners worked 12 hour shifts HARD labor starting as young as 5 years old and lived until maybe 35-45 before dying of black lung. men tougher than women, but not THAT much tougher.
missing elements of real suffering:
let's talk starvation first.
starvation not like portrayed in movies. first 2-6 months of malnourishment lots of fun, bodies produces endorphins happy hormones, like runners high but all the time. this why vegans feel so great at first before developing wax paper skin and grey complexion.
after body exhausts stored resources, outcome depends on exact food availability. maybe you has enough to live, but not thrive. you feel weak, can't gain muscle. may still be "strong" if robust body, but no stamina. hunger feeling becomes constant companion. many tricks to make it go away, like drinking water before sleeping so grinding stomach won't wake you up quickly.
eventually you lose ability to feel hunger. stomach hurts, but no appetite. gets hard to understand when you need to eat and wehn you don't need to eat. mind is grey constant fog. existence hurts. only time you feel alive is when immediate threat to your life. eventually become to depending on threats. like drug.
once you go there, is very hard to ever come back even if times get easy again. normal doesn't feel normal. food in the fridge, but is my stomach hurting from illness or because I forgot to eat today? did I eat yesterday? I'll answer you later.
sleeping in bed doesn't feel right. too clean, too soft. only time you feel like that is when too weak or cold to feel discomfort anymore. being comfortable and warm is scary. maybe tomorrow will bring a crisis and I can feel normal again.
I'll take any work I can to get by. Being a slave and being a hungry employee not so different, if I don't work enough I die. Slaves happier than workers when world is scary enough. Employers care nothing for workers, work a laborer to death and hire another one that afternoon. Who cares? Being a slave worth more. Owner paid for me, I represent investment. If master breaks me or kills me, he loses his money. I can't quit job, but hungry laborer can't either. Both are slaves, but one is more disposable than the other.
continued after quote
That's first really stupid fake difficulty in this game and bad psychology. Game world is crushingly oppressive, but slaves all act like spoiled 15 year old middle class kids being asked to work on farm for a day. If things truly bad, slaves would be too terrified to disobey and MOST would be grateful to have dry place to sleep and food.
Only truly resistent slaves would be people fresh out of fog AND too stupid to understand what they're seeing or slaves made out of nobles or rich people too clueless to know what game world really like.
slaves can be broken in game easily as you say but, mostly would not need to. in bad enough situation almost anyone is a willing slave.
gameplay is sets of rules. good gameplay self consistent and logical. I call fake difficulty 2 things:
-elements breaking rules of game logic.
-game rules that violate common sense or inconsistent with each other that add difficulty.
to make real difficulty in simulation, game events must be unpredictable. if entire game is static formula, certain sequence of clicks 100% formula to win.
to make game fair, game must have rules that make sense. if game full of invisible "gotcha" landmines or insta-loss, game is shit game.
difficulty in simulations is interesting concept because difficulty is balancing act. in action games difficulty is planning, timing, predicting, reacting fast. in not real time games, timing not important and fast reacting not factor at all.
developer has to balance rules so forgiving enough that randomizer never or very rarely gives sequence of events that skilled or smart player cannot react to or that player can survive but 100% dooms player in long run. game should also reward exploring and experimenting without constantly save scum, or game is just shitty click simulator.
game should also have lots of hidden state for player to explore, but should not punish exploring the hidden state carefully.
trying to make game "perfectly difficult" impossible. good players or experienced players will game any system except with really obvious fake difficulty just designed to punish being successful.
games that try to compensate with harder starting conditions for experienced players good idea, but good player will be able to recover from those. additional hard "modes" can also help, but those just making rules stricter ... good enough player can overcome that too.
best for developer AND players to accept that once you get good enough any game is cake walk and games where that not true is games nobody new wants to play except hardcore masochists.
Not fetishes, is common sense and self consistency. Fog is shitty deus ex machina, was obviously never any real thought in it. If animals die, humans would die too. If pregnancy not possible without church, population growth limited by church resources -> babies take lots of resources -> JONT society not sustainable. Long term, game is 100% game over for everyone. Maybe self consistent but not really interesting game world.
JONT motif gritty harsh grueling reality with slaves. Pregnancy one of most challenging aspects of human condition. Also prerequisite of self sustaining society. Most game developers seem not to understand power of human need to reproduce. Maybe too isolated or depressed. I don't know.
If nobles knew church could save their babies, would invade church and take secrets and sword point. Nobility wants heirs and wants to control those heirs to further the family. Giving up babies to church is suicide for noble houses. Gives church 100% control over ALL families. 100% chance this would never happen. horrible stupid bad awful story telling and game world design.
for PC, story might be different. in keeping with grimdark, more realistic outcome is player slaves deliver stillborn or die early or maybe babies become fiends. I like the last one best. makes it very good idea to give baby to church if player wants to live. Maybe skilled player or rich player traps mutant babies for amusement. Maybe feeds bad slaves to their own children.
Gives upgrade path, too. player gets enough power or influence or maybe skill and can acquire necessary tools to permit healthy births. if steal technology or aquire in black market, perhaps need large house to conceal healthy offspring. or bribe guards and neighbors.
if acquire legitimately, can have babies as much as can afford to.
fiend pregnancy feels like poorly thought excuse to add more gore. definitely not sexy except to very niche audience. also limits sadism of player with forcing slaves to do truly inhuman things. death only threatens your body, birthing a monster would threaten your soul. torture and death passe compared to breaking a human so badly they enjoyed doing that.
might also be another upgrade path. and what tastes like fiend meat? truly an interesting option for producing livestock ... human mothers to inhuman food. maybe reward her by letting her bear her offspring's children if she's good, instead of butchering them immediately.
Not inconceivable, not practical. I gave you numbers for why ... meat animals can be eaten mostly before 1 year old and animals produce very much meat for amount of feed (calories) expended to raise them compared to human with slow growth low efficiency, and also small amount of meat for size of frame.
my point is even elites cannot magic people out of thin air and if they eat all their slaves, what then?
cannibalism makes sense when human life is cheap. when church produces all babies (already bad story like I said above) then church is paying much money for this food we eat later. babies cost many times more in resources than are recovered by slaughtering. for this to be possible game world must be MUCH MORE FORGIVING in available resources.
Some elements of that are wrong covered above. Physiology -> people not wet tissue paper. Much tougher. Psychology -> in terrifying world, being a slave is safer than being free. Economics -> baby eating only viable when surplus resources available.
Game world needs to get its head on straight before it's good.
Those also real problems, but not as deep as ones I talk about
I don't say should REMOVE cannibalism. I say game world was put together by developer who has big gore/cannibalism fetish and took shortcuts to pump as much as he could into game even without thinking of what made sense.
Pregnancy needed to make cannibalism good option since cannibalism only economically viable when human life is cheap. Human life is not cheap when only 1 organization and tiny portion of population raising all babies.
someone removed my rating, but if you're listening then good. I am experienced with QSP language too. If we can agree enough on necessary changes I consider contributing.I invite you to remove your rating and put it in standby (and just write your critique on the thread, without penalizing the global rating) because it's a motivation bummer. A bad rating will discourage new people from trying, and working for a small niche is alright, but having at least a lot of people try our work is an incentive to put effort and time into the game. And again, I invite you to stay here and give us your insight.
- Dec 21, 2019
- 1,031
- 1,153
- Dec 3, 2019
- 38
- 16
There are a lot of things that you mentioned were already in the game's lore prior to qwertyu12359's involvement. Remember that Old Huntsman's the original developer, who wrote the game lore that you don't like, not qwerty12359. So, pinning these criticism at him isn't really fair, I think.
qwertyu12359 wanted to improve the game - hence, he's taking up the task to continue on with the development / modding of the game (after Hongfire website died, the thread where the game's modders contribute to the original game seemed to have all disappeared). Hence, the game can still improve lore-wise and mechanics-wise. If you want to re-write the game lore, write it up and propose here by all means. If you want to help with tidying up the code, it's even better. Every help is appreciated.
But please don't blackmail them with a bad review. Pretty please?
- Aug 1, 2017
- 1,567
- 1,697
I get that. Let's agree on 34h in a row = dead. The game needs to more or less emulate that to be considered realistic.
A healthy enduring slave has 5 stars. Getting to 0 stars = when she needs to sleep without it creating an "energy debt" for the next day. Below 0 star of energy, we can assume the slave is tired from her work and has sleep deprivation because slaver likes to wake up at dawn (btw it would be amazing for the game to require ~10h/12 of sleep for loli, ~8/10h for young, 6/8h for mature). If you have a problem, it's with this star system giving similar energy consumption for different tasks. But there's one thing I must correct in your statement: a slave hardly dies from cleaning and cooking alone, since once the house is clean and the food is ready there's no game option to clean, at all.
I've ran tests today: in the game, if the slave has -5 stars she faints from exhaustion. If she faints 3 days in a row while not eating at all, you only start to notice some effects on her. Even without taking her to the doctor, if takes decades of fainting everyday before it can kill her (I've been trying for 5 or 10 minutes and Isabella is not dead yet!).
If you're not feeble, you don't die from exhaustion in this game unless fainting every day for decades and without medical attention. After investigation, the game is too tolerant at best.
Okay. How do we translate that in game? What can we add for an ideal transcription of hunger:
Your slave whining and begging? Some description of her skin turning grey? She cannot sleep? She's ready to kill you to eat food?
Okay, I need evidence to back up your assessment that in a dangerous world, a slave you've acquired 5 minutes ago will not act like a spoil brat even if she has the temperament to be one. Don't forget that some slaves just got kidnapped recently into this world and might have been important people in their universe (among slaves, there are war heroes, artists...).
I think that as of now, the game manages psychology quite well. A "cowardly" slave you acquired 5 minutes ago will cook and even give you a handjob, no questions asked, if you look authoritative and clean. If you ask them questions without explaining EXACTLY what you're saying (that the world around is worse than being your slave), then depending on her personality she might get angry, or sob. I don't know of any slavery game that is as accurate psychologically, nor am I convinced that the psychology of the game needs change, yet.
Here, you've given 0 example of artificial difficulty that is in the game.
A Deus Ex Machina is an element of story that resolves a desperate situation for the characters. The fog is not, it's a premise. You find it as a cheap reason to explain why the society is cannibalistic, but your arguments are speculative conjectures. No, some magic substance that corrupts fetus and kill animal wouldn't necessarily kill humans. But if I said the fog killed animals, I was wrong anyway. And no, the population is not limited by removing pregnancy; it's too common even without birth. It is explained by the Smuggler's Den girl:
/
The church obviously has the power to enforce laws (with their paladins we can assume), so much that one of the most influential person of Eternal Rome (serpis president) doesn't dare to fuck with them so openly.
I like the idea. If you want to develop it for the game, I'll make a roadmap for you in the OP. It'd be a good post-patrician quest.
You know, you have weird fetishes yourself; you should be happy that some things in the game appeal to a very niche audience even if it's one you don't happen to be a part of ^^
And it's less about it being sexy than about being a setting (weirdly common in hentai productions btw).
For now there's only fiend cum you can feed your slave with (and I'd like pictures of it, I've had this plan for a while but Powerairmax, the former developer was not in favor of it. Things could change now). We can add other options in the future, I'd rather do that after all the other important things in the roadmap tho; the main dev has already gone burnt out it seems and the transition will be harsh.
This scientific article states that in the prehistoric era, cannibalism was quite common for nutritious reason:
You must be registered to see the links
| "In the majority of studies, the interpretation is that cannibalism was practiced for nutritional reasons
You must be registered to see the links
,
You must be registered to see the links
,
You must be registered to see the links
,
You must be registered to see the links
(although there has never been a way to quantify how nutritional these episodes may be)."The premise of the lore is that Eternal Rome is a cannibalistic society where human life is less valuable than even cereal culture. It literally says in the OP of this thread: "Human life is cheap". That's the second sentence of the overview!
I don't get if "wet tissue paper" is literal or a visual metaphor. Without hard evidence to back it up, for economy of means, we must consider that Eternal Rome's average diet is at least viable enough for the rich humans (remember, it's a magic medieval sci-fi world, we can perfectly imagine vitamin complement that are left out of the narrative). Btw, in Eternal Rome, there are undead people in the Necropolis; and they like to feed of humans almost uncontrollably so (based on the guard dialog). So if anything, you're 100% right and the diet is unsustainable; so much that it only a few survive and the other become undead.
As I stated, you've visibly not seen all of the game's possible outcomes. A newly acquired girl will more or less immediately be a willing slave giving the right circumstances.
For that, I think you REALLY didn't pay attention to the game's lore. It's explained everywhere that human food is the most cheap thing there is in this world. There are dozens of economic bullshit in this game (stated in the Roadmap, in the OP). Cannibalism is really not one of them (and why do you say "baby eating"?).
From what I understand, the game is good, even based on your standard. You just lacked the explanations to consolidate the world into a cohesive piece. The game only gives information sparsely, like a Dark Souls game; so it's an artistic decision. If you find any lore contradiction even now, please state them, but what you stated above aren't. And more importantly, the biggest risk we're facing as modders is to ADD lore inconsistencies. It's my difficult and unrewarding job to make sure the game stays true to its legacy (hence why I may appear dismissive of new ideas).
Maybe, but I'm not convinced by your demonstration, because you're giving arguments that are based on false premise because you lacked information that the game itself gives.
About raising babies, the Vatican is not "1 mere organization", it's like the leader of the crossroad of the whole multiverse. I trust them to have enough magical powers or financial resources to have a foster care branch.
That'd be cool. The only definitive critic is creation
You're basically free to do whatever you want with the game. Then you can release it on your own, as a mod. There's another possibility with three requirements: No bugs, doesn't conflicts with the lore nor betrays the legacy, is an improvement and not an downgrade. If you manage to meet the requirements, we'll put our efforts in common to add your new features to the next official version.
- May 1, 2017
- 218
- 371
Go on then, make a simulation game that perfectly replicates real life psychology, time management, human resource management and all the other things you have grievances with. You'll get a fricking slog of a game, if you actually manage to finish it in a decade thanks to all the variables you have to account for.
You have a few good suggestions, and a hell of a lot of simply selfish bitching. The people who are working on it right now aren't here to satiate your every need. So get off your high horse and calm down.
Incredibly well written.
Last edited:
My dad was hospitalized for a while, but is fine now. I got sick too, but nothing major. I've been working with Pianocat to get his moo mod working with the 2.1 version, that is nearly done now, just a few minor things left to do.
I haven't really kept up to date with development, I know that Slaver0 made some changes on the gitgut, but they might conflict with moo mod, will have to take a look and ask him if he's up to updating his changes, if not, do it myself. And if Lokplart is working on things, he might too need to check if the moo mod additions conflict with that.
I haven't really kept up to date with development, I know that Slaver0 made some changes on the gitgut, but they might conflict with moo mod, will have to take a look and ask him if he's up to updating his changes, if not, do it myself. And if Lokplart is working on things, he might too need to check if the moo mod additions conflict with that.
- Aug 1, 2017
- 1,567
- 1,697
Thank you very much
I'm glad everything is okay
I've discussed with PianoCat via Mp and he told me: "I will [...] push the modifications on git
But I think that only i107 can "officially" implement a new modification, for my part I can only create a new branch or push lines, without integrating them
"Maybe a hierarchy is good in order to consolidate everything and avoid conflicting updates. But you've stated yourself being busy, and ideally we wouldn't rely on you being constantly present.
Do you have a viable solution? What do people usually do in this case for other games? ^^ I'd take this responsibility but gitgud looks intimidating to me
There's not really a good solution, basically only one person is able to work on 1 file at a time. Now that we have split up all the locations into separate files, it's much easier to work on the project with multiple people, and coordination is only required when more than one person is working on the same location.
If someone else is interested in becoming a maintainer of the gitgud as well, to have access to push to master branch, that can be arranged. We start working with merge requests, would mean all contributors need to fork the project to their own branch, make changes, then request merges. Might be better if we have more contributors. (For example, take a look at Free Cities pregmod's gitgud, they have a pretty big team and run the project that way). Still, even then, there's always going to be one or two persons that make the final call on merging to master, and you still have to make sure only 1 person is working on 1 file at a time to prevent merge conflicts (or have contributors resolve merge conflicts later).
If someone else is interested in becoming a maintainer of the gitgud as well, to have access to push to master branch, that can be arranged. We start working with merge requests, would mean all contributors need to fork the project to their own branch, make changes, then request merges. Might be better if we have more contributors. (For example, take a look at Free Cities pregmod's gitgud, they have a pretty big team and run the project that way). Still, even then, there's always going to be one or two persons that make the final call on merging to master, and you still have to make sure only 1 person is working on 1 file at a time to prevent merge conflicts (or have contributors resolve merge conflicts later).