QSP Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.3] [ImperatorAugustusTertius / qwertyu12359]

[Lokplart]

Cons: It'll encourage save scumming, or at the very least be frustrating for anyone that actually needs a beautiful looking slave.

We can add mechanics to increase the chances of the player finding an S+ slave towards the late game, such as the elite slave auction someone was suggesting a few pages behind.

And for save scumming.. You can't add a difficulty related mechanic without encouraging save scumming. If someone wants to play the game in a realistic manner, then they won't save scum.

Beauty is supposed to be the limiting factor of a slave. If we completely destroy that limiting factor then we take out one of the few progression elements of the game. Albeit not that much of a progression element now, but it could be a good one if we implement mechanics like the one mentioned above.

In 2020, in our world, yes. In Eternal Rome, with the best surgeons of the multi-world and in an unknown time... I think the result is seamless. If you can make a girl oviparous, you can make an ugly girl look seemlessly beautiful ^^ That's what the game is going for at least.

Alright. I can get behind that.

 

[qwertyu12359]

We can add mechanics to increase the chances of the player finding an S+ slave towards the late game, such as the elite slave auction someone was suggesting a few pages behind.

Beauty is supposed to be the limiting factor of a slave. If we completely destroy that limiting factor then we take out one of the few progression elements of the game. Albeit not that much of a progression element now, but it could be a good one if we implement mechanics like the one mentioned above.

I'm more inclined to look at sociological studies of beauty and find the percentage of beautiful people in the world. Then put it in the game.

If we find out there are 10% S+ looking females in the real world, there there's 1 off out of 100 to find a S+ looking slave in Eternal Rome...

Except, let's do better. Let's find historic documents about slavery. And see if the proportion of good looking sex slaves is higher than the one of the general population. Then report that to JONT's code.

And for save scumming.. You can't add a difficulty related mechanic without encouraging save scumming. If someone wants to play the game in a realistic manner, then they won't save scum.

I say let's remove the ability to save freely.

Fastsaves were not even present in the original game (looking at 1.21 right now). Powerairmax once told me it was added later, to attempt making the saving time quicker (when saving took 30 seconds).

Proposition: In story mode and custom mode, in easy mode, you can save whenever you want.
In normal mode, you can save and auto save every day. In hard mode, every decade.
And in Sandbox, no matter the difficulty, you can save whenever you want.

I'm the first one that will be frustrated by not being able to saves scum any time I want, but it might be for the best. Think of Pokemon with an emulator; just having the possibility to do savestates completely ruin the gaming experience. Now compare with Dark Souls; it saves continually so you can't save scum at all, and it's still the best gaming experience I've had in 10 years.

I know that the trend in porn game (especially on Ren'py) is to allow rollback and savestates at anytime, but I think JONT is meant to be played differently. And again, Sandbox mode will still allow anything like right now.

 

[Lokplart]

I say let's remove the ability to save freely.

Fastsaves were not even present in the original game (looking at 1.21 right now). Powerairmax once told me it was added later, to attempt making the saving time quicker (when saving took 30 seconds).

Proposition: In story mode and custom mode, in easy mode, you can save whenever you want.
In normal mode, you can save and auto save every day. In hard mode, every decade.
And in Sandbox, no matter the difficulty, you can save whenever you want.

I'm the first one that will be frustrated by not being able to saves scum any time I want, but it might be for the best. Think of Pokemon with an emulator; just having the possibility to do savestates completely ruin the gaming experience. Now compare with Dark Souls; it saves continually so you can't save scum at all, and it's still the best gaming experience I've had in 10 years.

I know that the trend in porn game (especially on Ren'py) is to allow rollback and savestates at anytime, but I think JONT is meant to be played differently. And again, Sandbox mode will still allow anything like right now.

I think that, or any change to save availability would require a change in the engine files, but I'm not sure. I'm working on it, cause I want to add keyboard shortcuts but still...

That "trend" is like that because most people play a porn game once. I'm pretty sure the amount of people who go through more then 1 (2 at max) playthroughs of the game is very small. It's like that to try and make people play through the game as much as possible. Sure it doesn't really make sense for JONT, the artwork is not custom and the text still has some broken grammar but still I don't think it's worth it.
What that would do is raise the time needed to save scum... we'd push the bar from the load button to the save editor and not only did we lose some players who don't want to deal with that for a little mistake we also alienated the other ones too. They could come back with bugs created by the save editor and what are we gonna do? Tell them to "git gud"?
The best thing we could on this topic is make a hardcore difficulty that acts like that. Only auto saves after important decisions and when day ends.

I'm more inclined to look at sociological studies of beauty and find the percentage of beautiful people in the world. Then put it in the game.

If we find out there are 10% S+ looking females in the real world, there there's 1 off out of 100 to find a S+ looking slave in Eternal Rome...

Except, let's do better. Let's find historic documents about slavery. And see if the proportion of good looking sex slaves is higher than the one of the general population. Then report that to JONT's code.

It's probably way less the 10% just think about how many are top modes and then add a 1% or 2% for people that could but don't like it.

 

[Riujin]

In my opinion improving a slave from A+ To the next level should be possible, and the "only" 1 time option is somewhat ok if you want to balance the mechanics.

Why a player would want to improve a slave? 3 reasons:
1 - You finally found a good slave and you want to improve her price
2 - You trained good your slave and you need some more beauty to be able to complete the quest
3 - You are an end game player and you want to "Max" one of your favorite slaves.

To balance the whole things it could be done in many ways:
1 - Time limitation: 1 operation every 50/70/100 days... This will lock player 1 and 2 out of exploiting the mechanics for money and keep player 3 satisfied, he can know get his Ugly fav slave to Exquisite!
2 - Time limitation + money increase.
Time: You can't do a surgical operation every day... the body needs time to rest and accept the modification. + Prevent exploitations
Money: Modifying the aspect of a girl, from ugly to decent should be costly... but improving a girl from A to S should be VERY costly, as it is almost a "VERY" delicate operation to improve her beauty without making her looking artificial.


Now I don't really remember how much an operation cost and how affordable it is (didn't play in a while), but you get the idea.

These are just rough idea though! What do you think about it?

 

[qwertyu12359]

That "trend" is like that because most people play a porn game once. I'm pretty sure the amount of people who go through more then 1 (2 at max) playthroughs of the game is very small. It's like that to try and make people play through the game as much as possible.

I hear you, but at the same time,

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. If we start to think like editors, we make super good intros and shitty endings; is it really a good idea in and of itself? I don't think so.

Based on this example, in my opinion we shouldn't really care about the demographic, we should focus on the art. On what is better for Jont's gameplay, on a pure game-design perspective.

What that would do is raise the time needed to save scum... we'd push the bar from the load button to the save editor and not only did we lose some players who don't want to deal with that for a little mistake we also alienated the other ones too. They could come back with bugs created by the save editor and what are we gonna do? Tell them to "git gud"?

Again, people that won't want to play JONT like they'd want to play 1st Gen Pokémon or Final Fantasy VI, won't have to cheat. They'll just have to pick easy difficulty, or sandbox mode.

The best thing we could on this topic is make a hardcore difficulty that acts like that. Only auto saves after important decisions and when day ends.

My point is that we should rethink the vanilla game-experience. The by-default mechanics that are present can be thought as too abusive, and ultimately anti-fun.

But there are counter-examples. For example, the Splinter Cell games on PC allow savescuming and, for some, it makes it amazing to play BECAUSE of that (as opposed to the console versions which doesn't allow savestates).

We have to think, pros and cons Then take a decision. But with the heart in the right place; again, we think as artists, not as Electronic Arts headquarters.

It's probably way less the 10% just think about how many are top modes and then add a 1% or 2% for people that could but don't like it.

Yeah sure, but what about the slave population? I'm thinking a kidnapper does an automatic selection, because he has to feed the girl to keep her alive while he takes her, and if she isn't sold for enough bucks, then she'll bring monetary losses.

 

[Riujin]

For the save option it could be very easy to implement without being invasive: 1 simple checkbox in the options.
-check this, and you'll be able to save only 1 time at day/week.
-check this and you'll be able to save only at your home

Easy and simple: who wanna try it, it will check it and enjoy an harder experience.

 

[qwertyu12359]

For the save option it could be very easy to implement without being invasive: 1 simple checkbox in the options.
-check this, and you'll be able to save only 1 time at day/week.
-check this and you'll be able to save only at your home

Easy and simple: who wanna try it, it will check it and enjoy an harder experience.

The heart of the question however still remains: which one do we select as the default experience?

Should we keep the default game experience as it is now? If so, why is it ideal? If not, what's the ideal change?

Room for thoughts.

 

[Riujin]

The heart of the question however still remains: which one do we select as the default experience?

Should we keep the default game experience as it is now? If so, why is it ideal? If not, what's the ideal change?

Room for thoughts.

What is fun for you?
For me:
I love the porn part, how every girl is different from the others (mostly, before it was unique. Yes I'm an old player )
I LOVE the training mechanics, so many options that it's fun to slowly learn and improve on how to perfectly tame your slave.
The game is sexy and challenging at the same time, which keeps me engaged and probably keeps me coming: Jont's not just a collection of porn pics, but i's a porn in an actual game.

Now, how was the first experience of the game? An huge trial and error. There was lots I didn't understand, without good explanation on how the system was supposed to work.
For a first time player, that has to struggle to survive the first days... the limit on the saving would not be that fun, cause you can lose without even truly understand why.

The first play and experience should be focused on learning the mechanics and enjoying the porn. Then, if the game it's for you, you'll search for an harder experience.

That's my opinion

 

[qwertyu12359]

What is fun for you?
For me:
I love the porn part, how every girl is different from the others (mostly, before it was unique. Yes I'm an old player )
I LOVE the training mechanics, so many options that it's fun to slowly learn and improve on how to perfectly tame your slave.
The game is sexy and challenging at the same time, which keeps me engaged and probably keeps me coming: Jont's not just a collection of porn pics, but i's a porn in an actual game.

Now, how was the first experience of the game? An huge trial and error. There was lots I didn't understand, without good explanation on how the system was supposed to work.
For a first time player, that has to struggle to survive the first days... the limit on the saving would not be that fun, cause you can lose without even truly understand why.

The first play and experience should be focused on learning the mechanics and enjoying the porn. Then, if the game it's for you, you'll search for an harder experience.

That's my opinion

I liked the discovery. I always wondered what images were hiding behind each sexual options and punishment. The mystery behind it was exciting, albeit the unraveling was often disappointing (that's why I started to work on the game; having 2 images behind footjob that doesn't change depending on the slave... these were dark times!)

I liked the psychological aspect of the game. "Explain the situation" and asking questions... Enforcing authority, getting to be obeyed by a new obtain slave... it felt like I had to become good at human relationships in order to beat the game.

I liked how this game felt like a book from De Sade. The sadism possibilities are really pushed to the extreme.

That's the three main forces of the game. However it tries to do more. It tries to be a game where you climb the social ladder (yet it does not make you start from the very bottom). It tries to have an RPG aspect where you can improve your own character (yet, even if you train to become a surgeon, you cannot heal a slave yourself). It tries to have a fight system, yet it's not a compelling one.

------------------------------------

But that doesn't really help sorting out the question of if savestates should be kept for the vanilla game experience of not. But I just remembered when did being able to save scum was ruining my game experience:

- It was when buying a new slave at the market or getting a contract with the guild. Basically, I was saving until I got a slave that had max endurance. The fact that endurance mattered that much compared to the stats created some kind of imbalance, that made it less time costly to savescum for 10 minutes than having to train the slave until she's able to have 4 stars of energy.

And either:
1) We re-balance the endurence stat to be less essential to have at S+. So savescuming to get an acceptable slave wouldn't be as necessary.
2) We re-balance the stat distribution amongst slaves, so the difficulty becomes gradual. (not a fan of this one)
3) We make more slaves available to be bought or under contract per day.
4) We allow the saves only when at home, or another fair limitation.

 

[Riujin]

But that doesn't really help sorting out the question of if savestates should be kept for the vanilla game experience of not. But I just remembered when did being able to save scum was ruining my game experience:

- It was when buying a new slave at the market or getting a contract with the guild. Basically, I was saving until I got a slave that had max endurance. The fact that endurance mattered that much compared to the stats created some kind of imbalance, that made it less time costly to savescum for 10 minutes than having to train the slave until she's able to have 4 stars of energy.

And either:
1) We re-balance the endurence stat to be less essential to have at S+. So savescuming to get an acceptable slave wouldn't be as necessary.
2) We re-balance the stat distribution amongst slaves, so the difficulty becomes gradual. (not a fan of this one)
3) We make more slaves available to be bought or under contract per day.
4) We allow the saves only when at home, or another fair limitation.

What difficulty do you play on? I never had this kind of problems on normal difficulty on 1.75 while playing with Jonny (the nerd).
I actually never felt the need to save scum on this game so maybe I'm not the right person to talk about it

 

[clown3]

Hello.
This is really a good game.In this game we can really enjoy the control on slave, But I think we can change something so that we can enjoy much about surrounded by many slavess.
If someday there is a new edition, i really wish that there could be some change:
1,more freezer, not only 6.maybe 12. i think this is not so hard in code.
2,when player get the bull ring, or get enough money, one slave is not enough for slaver to train.I hope there could be two or three or four position to place slave that we can train and she can rest after every night. Maybe it's not easy to write the code for choosing which one to train at the menu button, but i got a idea. You know about the dungeon. We just need another dungeon position, just don't let it decrease the number of the girl's charactor, and make them rest and have meals nomarlly. Safe dungeon.
There is two square now, one for slave and another for assistant.Just add three small transverse squares between the two present horizontal squares. Don't need to add the green and red buttom(), just make player to click and change the girl to the main slave position like dungeon do.
And another things.If I make my assistant to teach a slave, she will not have enough energy to do all the housework. there are two square now, and i want three small square. Maybe two for safe dungoen and one for NO2 assistant. The NO2 assistant just work for housework and not needed to add any thing to the main menu.

And now, this can make people enjoy much about surrounded by many slaves. I'm always look foward to these things when I know how to play this game.

 

[Lokplart]

It was when buying a new slave at the market or getting a contract with the guild. Basically, I was saving until I got a slave that had max endurance. The fact that endurance mattered that much compared to the stats created some kind of imbalance, that made it less time costly to savescum for 10 minutes than having to train the slave until she's able to have 4 stars of energy.

So if you had no ability to save scum you think you would have continued playing? Or would you have stopped playing, called it bs and moved on..

In my eyes, that's a problem related to the energy system, not the endurance stat.
It works like action points, making things the exact same act from the energy consumption point of view.
Cooking, secretary and escort should take half a point of energy while others like gangbang, dancing or tentacle fuck should take 2. Maid should take more or less depending on the size of the house.
And you should gain endurance through learning other skills as well.
We can add steroid injections. If you can make an F- beauty girl into an S+ beauty girl with seamless surgery, I'm sure the technology of Eternal Rome is good enough where we can have steroid injections with close to no consequences.

Contracts imo would work better as a sort of mission board. Something like 5 to 7 contracts would be listed, together with info about the girl you'd be training. Pick what you want or come back later for possibly another set of contracts. I said possibly because existing contracts get replaced faster based on how good and easy they are. If checking the contract board is not the first thing you do in the morning and you decide to train your slave or do other stuff, then fully expect your guild mates to pick a contract before you.

However it tries to do more. It tries to be a game where you climb the social ladder (yet it does not make you start from the very bottom). It tries to have an RPG aspect where you can improve your own character (yet, even if you train to become a surgeon, you cannot heal a slave yourself). It tries to have a fight system, yet it's not a compelling one.

This is a really good point. I think the biggest nail in the social ladder aspect is the fact that you start as a member of the guild.
You shouldn't. You should start in the slums and sell slaves from the smuggler or ones you catch on your own, eventually getting noticed and offered an invitation. I think the slum house should have a bath, to make it possible to stay there for longer (I mean, you can carry a few buckets of water to your house and wash yourself. It won't be comfortable or very effective, but it would be something).
The surgeon skill should let you heal your slave's injuries. I think that if you have A+ or S+ you should be able to perform an abortion on your slave as well.

-----------------------------------

Back to the "saving" matter. I don't think it should be the default. I don't think any difficulty should be default. We should have a difficulty screen where you get to choose between easy normal and hard, hard having the no manual saving aspect and also not letting you change the difficulty. So if you want to play the game to learn or just casually, you can do it on normal, and if you think that's too easy, extra cookies for you, play on hard.

The other game modes are there for the convenience of the players and shouldn't be taken into account in this conversation... They will most likely fall behind when more story based elements are added into the game since you can't predict where and what the player is starting with. It could make some quests impossible to complete because the player is so far ahead, others could bug out or be automatically completed. The social climb is in my opinion part of the story. If you play sandbox it's because you just want to play the slave training aspect of the game without having to think about anything else.

 

[qwertyu12359]

What difficulty do you play on? I never had this kind of problems on normal difficulty on 1.75 while playing with Jonny (the nerd).
I actually never felt the need to save scum on this game so maybe I'm not the right person to talk about it

I played normal mode. I always play with the vanilla experience and don't use

So if you had no ability to save scum you think you would have continued playing? Or would you have stopped playing, called it bs and moved on..

I would have continued, surely. I would have gotten gud.

In my eyes, that's a problem related to the energy system, not the endurance stat.
It works like action points, making things the exact same act from the energy consumption point of view.
Cooking, secretary and escort should take half a point of energy while others like gangbang, dancing or tentacle fuck should take 2. Maid should take more or less depending on the size of the house.
And you should gain endurance through learning other skills as well.

Yes.

We can add steroid injections. If you can make an F- beauty girl into an S+ beauty girl with seamless surgery, I'm sure the technology of Eternal Rome is good enough where we can have steroid injections with close to no consequences.

What would the steroids do, a decade worth of energy boost? Yes, why not

I also have an idea. Do you see the guy that sells you a cryo for your house? We can give him a quest: if you give him a young slave that has enough constitution and max obedience... in exchange, he can turn your assistant into a cyborg, with infinite energy. Not changing her appearance, just place her strength and constitution to max.

Contracts imo would work better as a sort of mission board. Something like 5 to 7 contracts would be listed, together with info about the girl you'd be training. Pick what you want or come back later for possibly another set of contracts. I said possibly because existing contracts get replaced faster based on how good and easy they are. If checking the contract board is not the first thing you do in the morning and you decide to train your slave or do other stuff, then fully expect your guild mates to pick a contract before you.

Not a bad idea either

I think the biggest nail in the social ladder aspect is the fact that you start as a member of the guild.
You shouldn't. You should start in the slums and sell slaves from the smuggler or ones you catch on your own, eventually getting noticed and offered an invitation. I think the slum house should have a bath, to make it possible to stay there for longer (I mean, you can carry a few buckets of water to your house and wash yourself. It won't be comfortable or very effective, but it would be something).[/quote]
100% that.

The surgeon skill should let you heal your slave's injuries. I think that if you have A+ or S+ you should be able to perform an abortion on your slave as well.

And that too.

-----------------------------------

Back to the "saving" matter. I don't think it should be the default. I don't think any difficulty should be default. We should have a difficulty screen where you get to choose between easy normal and hard, hard having the no manual saving aspect and also not letting you change the difficulty. So if you want to play the game to learn or just casually, you can do it on normal, and if you think that's too easy, extra cookies for you, play on hard.

"normal" difficulty will obviously be the default, or thought to be the "experience as intended". That's how most players think; that hard mode artificially adds difficulty, and easy is for children or casuals. The difficulty modes weren't even intended by Old Huntsman, they were implemented ad-hoc. I'm not sure they are good ideas to begin with.

But we can try to compensate by naming the difficulty differently, and giving a text bar at the bottom when clicking on each when starting a new game.

"Easy" would states: "this game difficulty is for players that had difficulty finishing the tutorials or want to access the sexual scenes of the game without overthinking the psychological aspect. The obedience rate of the slave will raise faster and saving can be done at any time".
"Normal" would state: "this game difficulty is for players that wants a balanced experience between having fun and overcoming obstacles. Saving can be done at home".
"Simulation" would state: "this game difficulty is for players that want to put themselves in the shoes of a real slave trainer. Saving is done automatically after each action"

This way, each difficulty will offer a unique way of playing, and one could argue that there's no "default" experience, but all are different.

The other game modes are there for the convenience of the players and shouldn't be taken into account in this conversation... They will most likely fall behind when more story based elements are added into the game since you can't predict where and what the player is starting with. It could make some quests impossible to complete because the player is so far ahead, others could bug out or be automatically completed. The social climb is in my opinion part of the story. If you play sandbox it's because you just want to play the slave training aspect of the game without having to think about anything else.

Well sandbox mode has been here from the beginning, it's difficult just to ignore it. Worse, we cannot allow ourselves to add bugs in the game.

We can make the sandbox mode completely closed out however, kind of like the tutorial, but with the slave auction available when clicking a button. That way, it'll just effectively be about slave training.

 

[Lokplart]

I would have continued, surely. I would have gotten gud.

See, that's what I was getting at. You might be a hardcore player but some may not.

What would the steroids do, a decade worth of energy boost? Yes, why not

I was thinking more like a permanent effect:
F -> C
D -> B
B -> A
A -> S
Maybe it should stop at A?

You can do it once and would cost a lot, it would be a late game feature that is meant to ease a bit the "no endurance" problem.
Maybe it would fit in better within Mori's repertoire?

I also have an idea. Do you see the guy that sells you a cryo for your house? We can give him a quest: if you give him a young slave that has enough constitution and max obedience... in exchange, he can turn your assistant into a cyborg, with infinite energy. Not changing her appearance, just place her strength and constitution to max.

Umm.. not sure how I feel about that... Idk if infinite is a good amount... We plan to add additional ways to make money and that might break some stuff. We'll see when we get there.

"normal" difficulty will obviously be the default, or thought to be the "experience as intended". That's how most players think; that hard mode artificially adds difficulty, and easy is for children or casuals. The difficulty modes weren't even intended by Old Huntsman, they were implemented ad-hoc. I'm not sure they are good ideas to begin with.

But we can try to compensate by naming the difficulty differently, and giving a text bar at the bottom when clicking on each when starting a new game.

"Easy" would states: "this game difficulty is for players that had difficulty finishing the tutorials or want to access the sexual scenes of the game without overthinking the psychological aspect. The obedience rate of the slave will raise faster and saving can be done at any time".
"Normal" would state: "this game difficulty is for players that wants a balanced experience between having fun and overcoming obstacles. Saving can be done at home".
"Simulation" would state: "this game difficulty is for players that want to put themselves in the shoes of a real slave trainer. Saving is done automatically after each action"

This way, each difficulty will offer a unique way of playing, and one could argue that there's no "default" experience, but all are different.

Yes! We agree. I'll try and see how to fiddle with the saving when I try and add keyboard shortcuts.

Well sandbox mode has been here from the beginning, it's difficult just to ignore it. Worse, we cannot allow ourselves to add bugs in the game.

We can make the sandbox mode completely closed out however, kind of like the tutorial, but with the slave auction available when clicking a button. That way, it'll just effectively be about slave training.

That's not what I was saying.
What I meant was that some quest might not be doable because of the starting position the player chooses in the beginning.
By "bug out" I meant like not appear, cause it's waiting for other quests to be done, quests which can't be done or just have their conditions already met and when you and take the quest, it automatically gets solved.

 

[qwertyu12359]

See, that's what I was getting at. You might be a hardcore player but some may not.

Thing is, I'm not much of an hardcore player. I'm a normal player. I never give myself challenges in order to make the game harder. If a game is too easy in normal mode, I'll never select the hard difficulty, even if I find it boring. I think choice is often an illusion, for difficulty, and that difficulty I perceive as artificial is never rewarding when overcame.

And for JONT, it took me years to git gud ^^ I started playing in around 2014-2015, but never reached Patrician until last year.

I was thinking more like a permanent effect:
F -> C
D -> B
B -> A
A -> S
Maybe it should stop at A?

You can do it once and would cost a lot, it would be a late game feature that is meant to ease a bit the "no endurance" problem.
Maybe it would fit in better within Mori's repertoire?

Maybe you can do it once with the doctors, and Mori can do the second. Even going up to S++ (which doesn't exist yet), but it'd make the slave look monstruously muscled (like Captain America after being injected the serum) and drastically drop the beauty level. And an ugly slave is not good for the mood, right? So making her be good looking again with neoplasty would cost a kidney.

Umm.. not sure how I feel about that... Idk if infinite is a good amount... We plan to add additional ways to make money and that might break some stuff. We'll see when we get there.

Oh right, we wouldn't want that to be OP either. I was thinking about the Bull Ring effect and thinking that if it's alright for the slaver, it's alright for the slave/assistant, but I forgot the ways to make money.

I was thinking about it because the character that sells you a house cryo is Dr. Gero from Dragon Ball, and his story is that he managed to kidnap two teenager twins and turn them into cyborgs that have infinite energy and amazing strength. The problem is that he could never get them to obey and got killed by their hands.

So from a lore perspective, it might be amazing not to pretend that the image is not related to Dr. Gero, and say that in an alternative universe, he went to Eternal Rome to be able to pursue his experiments on androids and cyborg, but he really needs to find an obedient one. And in exchange, he gives you something only he can build.

 

[Lokplart]

if it's alright for the slaver, it's alright for the slave/assistant

Yeah.. it's not really alright for the master either.. especially if we add ways to make money that doesn't involve the slave like selling your own paintings..

Wait.. no.. it's not alright now either.. you can go hunting for forever?
If yes, the Bull ring either needs to go, or we need to add a time mechanic to the game that forces you to stop.

Why is that a thing? I mean, as a sandbox, cheaty item is fine, but.. what is it's use.. you're already limited by the slave's energy in most cases.. is it there as a "ah wtf you played enough, now go make infinite money"?

I was thinking about it because the character that sells you a house cryo is Dr. Gero from Dragon Ball, and his story is that he managed to kidnap two teenager twins and turn them into cyborgs that have infinite energy and amazing strength. The problem is that he could never get them to obey and got killed by their hands.

So from a lore perspective, it might be amazing not to pretend that the image is not related to Dr. Gero, and say that in an alternative universe, he went to Eternal Rome to be able to pursue his experiments on androids and cyborg, but he really needs to find an obedient one. And in exchange, he gives you something only he can build.

Yeah, it's a cool idea. But I think we should keep it on hold until after the economy reworks. We don't want to give ourselves more work to do in case it doesn't fit in with whatever we decide to do with the economy.

Thing is, I'm not much of an hardcore player. I'm a normal player. I never give myself challenges in order to make the game harder. If a game is too easy in normal mode, I'll never select the hard difficulty, even if I find it boring. I think choice is often an illusion, for difficulty, and that difficulty I perceive as artificial is never rewarding when overcame.

And for JONT, it took me years to git gud ^^ I started playing in around 2014-2015, but never reached Patrician until last year.

Those would fit in well as bodyguards. I feel like your house and the barn should both have a bodyguard slot in them. (That feature would ofc come with relevant events.)

 

[nivak.mal]

out of curiosity since combat rework's in the roadmap is there any plans to implement slaves into that especially for the fog fights? its always seemed kinda odd for me that a slave owner wouldn't be using his slaves as a meat shield or something and fights the fog by himself especially when he's got a mind control spell to force them.

Also kinda wish there'd be more to the fiend system maybe part of the auto-train system put in the roadmap? like if a slave is disobedient lock her up in the fiend pit for a couple of days to terrify/torture her but if it takes too long she'll get pregnant so you can't completely neglect her unless that's what ur aiming for.

 

[Lokplart]

out of curiosity since combat rework's in the roadmap is there any plans to implement slaves into that especially for the fog fights? its always seemed kinda odd for me that a slave owner wouldn't be using his slaves as a meat shield or something and fights the fog by himself especially when he's got a mind control spell to force them.

Yes, you will be able to bring your slave into combat.

Also kinda wish there'd be more to the fiend system maybe part of the auto-train system put in the roadmap? like if a slave is disobedient lock her up in the fiend pit for a couple of days to terrify/torture her but if it takes too long she'll get pregnant so you can't completely neglect her unless that's what ur aiming for.

Throwing a slave in a cage with a fiend for days would most likely and realistically result in a mind break at best and death at worst, not training. It would be worst then throwing her into the fogs, she could at least try to run in the fogs.
Auto-training will be done by your assistant on your prisoner, if you assign your assistant as a trainer.

 

[qwertyu12359]

Yeah.. it's not really alright for the master either.. especially if we add ways to make money that doesn't involve the slave like selling your own paintings..

Wait.. no.. it's not alright now either.. you can go hunting for forever?
If yes, the Bull ring either needs to go, or we need to add a time mechanic to the game that forces you to stop.

Why is that a thing? I mean, as a sandbox, cheaty item is fine, but.. what is it's use.. you're already limited by the slave's energy in most cases.. is it there as a "ah wtf you played enough, now go make infinite money"?

It's kind of the ultimate reward. But it's "magic", and fits the lore, so it doesn't feel so much like a cheat. Moreover, it's supposed to make you not able to walk into Serpentine quarter (and another neighborhood) without getting attacked (not implemented, visibly).

Maybe, instead of infinite, it'd be limited by your need to sleep. But, as opposed to without the Bull Ring, if you go to sleep with the energy in red, you won't have an energy debt by the next day.

In my opinion, we cannot get rid of this item lightly, it's really an important game reward and it feels blissful to equip.

 

[Riujin]

"Simulation" would state: "this game difficulty is for players that want to put themselves in the shoes of a real slave trainer. Saving is done automatically after each action"

I'm really not comfortable with the "Save is done automatically" Especially with the INSANE saving time that this game used to have.
In my opinion, the idea of having a "flexible" difficulty settings is very neat:
-Do a bunch of different check box with different options into it so everybody can "create" their own most fitting experience.
-Then have a base "Easy, Normal, Hard" difficulty where you just switch from default some boxes and keep open the possibility to check some others to have a total custom difficulty.

Do you want an easy games? with limited saves? With only teen girls without loli and milf? You can do it!
Also, how many check boxes are we talking about?

What would the steroids do, a decade worth of energy boost? Yes, why not

I was thinking more like a permanent effect:
F -> C
D -> B
B -> A
A -> S
Maybe it should stop at A?

I don't really like this option to be honest. Maybe it's just my personal opinion... But something that I really loved about this game, was the uniqueness of every slave: you really needed to "hunt" for a good slave with the right qualities... Which was actually kinda neat for me.

The idea of "everyone can be everything with a click" because we have "super science/magic" is kinda "meh" for me.. Cause would totally eliminate the part of "hard working" to find the right slave or to improve her stats.

I have no idea if things have changed or if the wiki is updated, but endurance was already possible to be improved. Of course... It was hard... But possible... And that's the whole point in my opinion.

Endurance
Affects:

Amount of Energy gained overnight and the arousal.
Affected by:

Living conditions (sleeping in a bed vs. sleeping on the floor), amount of stars left before ending day (1 star is optimal)
Increased by:

Supplements
Martial arts
Fitness training
Dance lesson
Pet training
Pony training
Harness training
Enema training
Entertain me: Acrobatics
Clothes: Athletic Leotard and Sneakers
Decreased by:

Beatings
Torture
Behaveeny Toileting
Behave:urinal
Behave:toilet
Scatology
Augmentation surgery
Pregnancy
Disease

Energy, cyborgs and ring bull

I'm not personally a fan about cyborgs and I'm not sure if would fit the game, but that's just my opinion.
For the ring bull.. I must admit I didn't get to that point yet... Nor the pratician quest ahah... I usually stopped playing after reaching my personal objective: maxing all stat for the MC, getting rich and having a couple fav slaves.



Now I have a couple of advices:
This is my personal experience, but when I'm searching idea for new things I love to ask question to myself. In this case if we are talking about I game, I think it would help a lot to ask and focus on the right things.
-What is fun about this game? What does make it an unique and fun experience to play it?
-What is the setting and the "mood" of the game? Will this "idea x" add more to the experience? Or maybe it will ruin it?
-How the base mechanic works? Can I add this new system without breaking other systems? Will the new mechanics improve the general feeling of the game and will add more fun?

Adding things into a game is ALL about creating a fun and joyful experience for the player. That's why "more" doesn't meant "better". I will always remember CDPR answer on Witcher 2 Iron made mode and the removed option from wither 3: "While witcher 2 was a thing and it worked there, we don't trust Witcher 3's world enough too add the mechanic. (Bugs)"

Even is somethings looks cool on paper and it works on other games it doesn't mean that it will work in "game x" too.


Finally the last suggestion and almost a request: You guys are doing a GREAT and amazing work, period. You are dedicating your love to the game without asking anything for it, observing the resurrection of a modding community is always nice.
But, while modding a game, there are always things that can go Very right and very wrong... (the butchering of ALL the unique picture from 1.7.3 to 1.7.5... Cough.... cough).
This created a weird situation: You had a BAG filled with bug fixes and improvements that made the game better... and an mod that literally killed all the cool pics of the games and manage to uses just 40 50 pic in the whole folder while managing to go from 1gb to 5gb of files... Having hundred of unused pics for no apparent reason.
Here the player needed to chose: Do I want better porn with worst gameplay? Or Do I want better gameplay with worst porn?

So here is the request/idea:
I have no idea on how the code of the game works, so I don't know if this is possibile.... BUT is possible to actually split things apart?
1 - Improved "vanilla" version of the game with bugs and generic add-on. (Bugs fix, Different quality of life improvements, pics, etc). This, will make everyone happy: they will be able to savor all of your works without fear of possibly unwanted new systems/overhaul of the game.
2 - A patch with the new experimental systems. This will keep the game progressing forward while the "safe" possibility to test the new system without fear of having a "2.2" release with a broken or new unfitting add-on.

This will make much easier too see what it works and what not, with the possibly to be added in the future to the base game... Or just keep it apart. Changing a lot of the base system can deeply modify the feeling of game.
Jack O nine "Original" by the author had a feeling. Jack O nine "Hongfire mod" Had a TOTAL different feeling. You could say almost "Jack o Nine" 2.0.
Now, I stilt had not chance to play your 2.1 version as my last was "1.7.5", but if you plan to keep adding stuff to the game this might slowly lead to a "3.0" version (considering the original version).
So that's why I'm proposing. Is it possible to split things out? For now I think that your version is a an "improved" version of 1.7.5 Which is great, but if things keep moving on and the system will get changed I think that it would be great to leave behind a 2.0 version of the game and start a 3.0 that will almost be a total different game while keeping the same name.

I have no idea on what are your plans about it and how long do you want to push things on! But I wanted to share my opinion ^^