I've explained her position 3 times but I did forget to brand her since I don't have the magical ability yet. I dropped by Bo's and got her branded and I tried putting her in her place but she wasn't having it. Thorns of rebellion increased by 1.
QSP Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.3] [ImperatorAugustusTertius / qwertyu12359]
What’s her aura? Giving certain types of rewards can increase spoiling a bit even if you aren’t exceeding her merit, so you might want to cut back on those. You can also starve her for a day or two. If she’s ending the day happy then she’ll stay spoiled longer. Fear level is also a factor. Aim for pessimistic mood at the end of the day; changing her night-time outfit might be enough.
After getting her branded and trying to put her in her place this is what her aura looks like. So you think I should make her pessimistic and then use encourage or the Elven Lied spa to improve her attitude the following day?
I tried it by taking her clothes off and making her sleep on the floor. I also earned a reward point and didn't give a reward. She woke up pessimistic. She now has 3 thorns of rebellion and she still has that 1 spot of spoiling.
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Going by what you were saying I decied to keep going letting her sleep on the floor with no clothes and when I train her, if I get 3 reward points I only spend 1 or 2. After a few days all of her thorns disappeared but she still has that one spoiling area and no obedience. I'm going to keep working at it from this angle. If rewarding her less makes her obediant and gets rid of the spoiling point then that would be ideal. I hope it works out. Thanks for the help, I'll be back later I'm sure.
EDIT:
Going by what you were saying I decied to keep going letting her sleep on the floor with no clothes and when I train her, if I get 3 reward points I only spend 1 or 2. After a few days all of her thorns disappeared but she still has that one spoiling area and no obedience. I'm going to keep working at it from this angle. If rewarding her less makes her obediant and gets rid of the spoiling point then that would be ideal. I hope it works out. Thanks for the help, I'll be back later I'm sure.
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Only one point of fear in her aura and no taming. Fear is easy to raise and would reduce her spoiling faster while also increasing her obedience.
Taming is easier to raise with a slave whose nature is low, as in your case. Unlike habit and awareness, taming can diminish if aura supremacy is not maintained. Might be why she has none: although currently her aura is weaker that wasn’t necessarily true in previous days.
To answer your earlier question: no, because massages increase spoiling. Although you have to decide what is more important, her mood or her being slightly spoiled.
Aww man, it didn't work out. I don't have high enough spell casting to cast fear and she won't listen if I threaten her. I probably just need to let her attitude crumble until she starts refusing to train and then abuse her. I just don't get the gameplay in this game. It's like you are expected to save scum for 3 days for a 200 spark profit. I'm just not really getting anywhere after hours of wasted time. I thought pushing through the normal difficulty tutorial yesterday would have helped but it didn't. This is just as unplayable as it was before and I still don't get it. Rebellion and obedience are total chaos and move around without any indication as to why. Character progression will just stop for no apparent reason until a certain amount of time and money are wasted and then they will suddenly start working again. Some slaves just require an ass beating even if it doesn't make any logical sense, it's just what they require to move forward. I really like the systems that were built for this game, but the gameplay doesn't work for me. Like I said yesterday, I just don't get it, must go over my head or maybe I just don't like the game.
Progression accumulates until a threshold. It can take days to accumulate enough to cause a visible change in aura. In the tutorial you can observe the fractional progression using the “I” button next to the slave’s portrait.
A few points of obedience are linked to mood, so you’ll see higher obedience when she is happy and lower when she’s not.
I understand now your issue with raising fear — she’s too obedient for you to have reasons to punish her, even though she is still rebellious. If you want a valid reason to punish her, just ask her to do something she would refuse, like sex training.
Since she is close to positive obedience with just one point of fear, you don’t need to raise her fear more, although it would help. You can just focus on her lowest aura stat - in this case taming - to raise her obedience. For that, making her sleep on the floor naked is a good approach, while maintaining a stronger aura through magic, master’s clothing, allure, etc.
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This is a common problem, your slave has 1 spoil and that's causing issues because she has no taming and no devotion. Here's something you can try;
- Raise fear to 3. Its pretty easy to do actually. Just get her to do something she will almost certainly never accept, like train xenophilia etc. The purpose of this is to get her guilty so you can punish her to raise her fear. If psychological punishments dont work, use physical ones. If guilt levels arent high enough, cast sententia veritas before making her do tasks she wont accept.
- If you cant cast spells on her, its worth just continuing to try because you build your magic stat that way. Or if you prefer instant results, just wear wizard's robe or noble regalia, or cast magna magnifika first. It might work...and even if it doesnt it builds your magic stat so its not all a lost
- Increase taming by putting leather collar and crown of thorns.
- To reduce spoiling, you can make her sleep on the floor or put her in the dungeon. Raising fear first is crucial
- To increase devotion, first make sure theres no spoiling, then train sex skills or take on dates for rewards. You can start doing this when her obedience turns positive
Also, dont bother living in the slum. These are for real hardcore players who want a challenge. Getting isabella as an assistant is invaluable, since you can use her to keep your own feelings happy (unhappy slavers dont train well) and have her do the menial bits like cooking and cleaning.
If the game seem too demanding in terms of sparks, just start the game with milord as slaver, that's 8k sparks. It'll easily allow you access to an apartment and it'll take quite a while to drain away. Even if you eventually fail (no more sparks), you gain invaluable experience understanding how this game works.
Although I made the same suggestion, it’s actually not necessary to “contrive” guilt like this. If you simply focus on training and raising the rank of the slave, you will necessarily move into sex skills at some point and start to encounter resistance naturally. So, playing “as intended” should also lead to the situation resolving, if you are patient and follow the advice of the tutorial. Not to mention, the slaver’s libido can only be neglected for so long without consequence. And those rape interactions exist for a reason…
Honestly, I don't find the game very hard and I like complex gameplay systems. I just find the training to have broken elements that simply don't make sense. In the slums you can pay 1 spark at a brothel to keep your libido up and you can pay 1 spark for food at the pub each day. The elven laid will keep you clean and if you are really hurting for energy you can always use the invigorating message. I spend about 30 sparks a decade plus cleaning and food for a slave which is practically nothing especially if you have an assistant. It's easy to make a daily routine that will allow you to start each day with full energy and keep your libido up. Your attitude will flux throughout the day but it won't hurt you really.
My only issue is when you train someone, if they are too disobedient to train then you should need to instill fear either verbally or physically BEFORE training if necessary. However, I almost always find a way to improve attitude and get them training and accepting rewards which leads to us both being happy until all character progression comes grinding to a halt for no explainable reason and I have to tear down all of the progress that I made for the last 20 days to physically beat someone that is totally compliant into gaining obedience points that refuse to go up because of some quirk in the gameplay. Super annoying. If the game requires that I instill fear BEFORE training successfully then that would make sense but I just don't get what's going on. I physically forced a collar and the crown of thorns on her and I'm making her sleep on the floor naked. Her taming skill is going up but it's retarded that she was spoiled before I even bought her.
My only issue is when you train someone, if they are too disobedient to train then you should need to instill fear either verbally or physically BEFORE training if necessary. However, I almost always find a way to improve attitude and get them training and accepting rewards which leads to us both being happy until all character progression comes grinding to a halt for no explainable reason and I have to tear down all of the progress that I made for the last 20 days to physically beat someone that is totally compliant into gaining obedience points that refuse to go up because of some quirk in the gameplay. Super annoying. If the game requires that I instill fear BEFORE training successfully then that would make sense but I just don't get what's going on. I physically forced a collar and the crown of thorns on her and I'm making her sleep on the floor naked. Her taming skill is going up but it's retarded that she was spoiled before I even bought her.
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Based on the above, I think you might find hardcore obedience difficulty more to your liking. Give it a try.
As for spoiled before you got her … it’s entirely reasonable that some slaves have an entitled attitude from before you met them.
Also, I think your mental model hasn’t allowed for the fact that everything is on a 5-point scale. That means the distance from zero to one is less than the distance from one to two, etc. You seem to be expecting linear progression.
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What does hardcore obedience difficulty even do? Obedience is the only problem I seem to have with the entire game if it's related to slave obedience.
I totally get that she could have been entitled but that should have made her impossible to work with from the get go. Her attitude should have kept her from agreeing to train in the first place and then I could have gotten the nasty business out of the way at the start.
So this character now has two points in taming which is blocking out the spoiling which I can't get rid of no matter what I do. In all past slaves I could send them to the garden a couple times and it would fix this problem but that doesn't work on her. She can go up to 3 buds of obedience now but no higher. If I try to push higher than I get punished with another ball of spoiling. Each night my obedience drops two points. I believe this is because of the treatment I'm giving her to gain taming skill. Soooo, I guess I'm just going to sit around waiting for taming skill to go up and sleeping with full energy every day? If I train her and she gets reward points then I will be punished with spoiling if I use them and her attitude will drop too low if I don't.
I totally get that she could have been entitled but that should have made her impossible to work with from the get go. Her attitude should have kept her from agreeing to train in the first place and then I could have gotten the nasty business out of the way at the start.
So this character now has two points in taming which is blocking out the spoiling which I can't get rid of no matter what I do. In all past slaves I could send them to the garden a couple times and it would fix this problem but that doesn't work on her. She can go up to 3 buds of obedience now but no higher. If I try to push higher than I get punished with another ball of spoiling. Each night my obedience drops two points. I believe this is because of the treatment I'm giving her to gain taming skill. Soooo, I guess I'm just going to sit around waiting for taming skill to go up and sleeping with full energy every day? If I train her and she gets reward points then I will be punished with spoiling if I use them and her attitude will drop too low if I don't.
It changes the obedience/diligence formulas and a few things related to obedience. Broadly, it increases the amount of aura development needed to reach positive obedience, which means more resistance, though you can usually still find a few things she will tolerate within the first decade.
Spoiled means she thinks she has some say in her treatment and she expects bigger rewards for small achievements. It does not mean that she refuses to do anything you ask of her. A slave who is completely devoted can also be spoiled… though it fades quickly in that case.
Skipping days without doing anything with the slave won’t work. You have to interact with her if you want to progress.
The amount of spoiling from low-level rewards is small to nil. I didn’t mean you to scare you off from rewarding at all. Just do it sparingly. You can save up her merit for the day and give her one small reward at the end. No need to reward immediately.
While stopping all rewards is certainly a valid approach to lowering spoiling fastest, it isn’t optimal. Stopping training is definitely not optimal.
The nightly drop of 2 points obedience is just a mood swing, right?
Since you’ve reached positive obedience, you can start on sex training (mild stuff), spend time with and erotic rewards to build intimacy. Spoiling won’t prevent her from gaining devotion that way.
I can't tell if you were being sarcastic or not being the internet, but I would think obedience wouldn't be that hard to raise even on a higher difficulty with access to magic spells that boost reward points. The issue for me isn't about earning obedience it's usually about something else blocking it entirely. I don't even need magical spells because I'm apparently over spoiling her by using the reward points that I earn normally.
She has 3 points in taming now and you are probably right that the obedience is cleared by two points because of the mood drop but the mood drop is the result of the taming devices at play when she sleeps, I think.
I'm taking your advice and starting on sex training. I used the command "serve me" and "entertain me" and she agreed to do a strip tease so that's a good sign she is willing to move forward though I have not hit D+ rating yet because of this taming/spoiling issue I have had for the last 15 game days.
She has 3 points in taming now and you are probably right that the obedience is cleared by two points because of the mood drop but the mood drop is the result of the taming devices at play when she sleeps, I think.
I'm taking your advice and starting on sex training. I used the command "serve me" and "entertain me" and she agreed to do a strip tease so that's a good sign she is willing to move forward though I have not hit D+ rating yet because of this taming/spoiling issue I have had for the last 15 game days.
No sarcasm. With more “thorns” to overcome, you face more resistance which typically avoids any incongruous “she’s cooperating but…” scenarios. It may on the other hand feel like it takes too long to get them to cooperate, considering what they’re going through.
How did you manage to increase her spoiling when you “pushed it” earlier?
Are you limiting how often you reward her to once or twice a day?
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Spoiling reduces faster with fear. I just wanted to emphasize that your problem can be resolved sooner if the slave had fear at level 3.
When I earn 5 reward points I use only one of them. Last time I brought her some flowers and it made her optimistic without adding another ball of spoiling. It's getting pretty dicey though. If she breaks the masturbation rules I could spank her and that would raise fear as PDP19 is suggesting. My only problem with that is fear runs out and when it does it can cause chaos. I think I'm done playing for the night though. I appreciate the help guys. The game has alot I like about it and if I learn to deal with these training issues I think I'll be able to enjoy it. I may actually try turning up the difficulty and see how I feel about it. I'll have to think about it.
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If you live in a slum, you dont get access to the dungeon, or alchemy, both of which can be useful. Not to mention that both slaver and slave would not enjoy the living conditions and thus mood will go down. As I mentioned earlier, its not necessary to suffer a routine and live cheap in a slum, those are for masochist players who really, really want a challenge. The game allows you to quickly get an apartment and a free assistant for a reason.
But of course, if you prefer to go through a routine every day, that's no prob. Just note that the food served in virgins hip is likely B+ rank so you cant rank up your slaver's endurance past that, a very key stat in this game.
As for your quips on the training sessions.
Fear makes it easy to train a slave, but it is not necessary. There are slaves that are more docile and dont need to be coerced into accepting training. Low nature slaves are one such, some others may have quirks that make them easier to train. For general purposes, most slaves need at least some fear to get anywhere, because their obedience starts off too low. Fear instills obedience, and will be replaced by devotion, awareness, habit and taming in time.
Its a common thing to have obedience fluctuate wildly around the areas D- to D+, thats because often enough the slave's awareness/taming/habit is not high enough and/or she has spoiling. Fear 3 compensates with all those, but fear slowly subsides assuming youre training them correctly i.e. not punishing/rewarding more than needed. Right now your issue here is that she has no taming and has spoil 1, whilst having fear 1. My directions in the earlier post will help with that.
Another key tip, which the game doesnt really explain. You dont HAVE to reward them all the time (although punishments are near mandatory). The game is set in such a way that past a maximum of 2 reward (on easy) will induce higher spoiling. In other words, skip some of the rewards, you dont have to give it. For me its twice a day max, no more rewards after that.
A small comment. I dont like the fact that certain slaves have spoiling before I even start, but I accept that its logical, though annoying. If youve ever had the pleasure of meeting with a real ojou-sama in real life you'll see why certain slaves seem to think the world revolves around them. Your job as slaver is to make sure they understand who is the master of this house. A few days in a cell eating dog food will cure them of their delusions of graduer (dont do this in real life, its not nice and you'll get arrested)
And lastly. This is a fairly demanding game, there's no shame in tearing down all your progress and start again. As a slave master you would eventually learn which slave is worth your time, and if they are progressing. For those that cant or wont, just chuck them and get another one. Any veteran of Jo9 would have done the same at some point.
Ive once reloaded a save after playing up to 20 days getting her to C- only to find out that her spoiling 2 is getting really annoying and I dont want to go through another 10 days getting rid of it. Nothing special. The game is harsh but fair.
I think I just like the idea of slowly earning my way out of the slums. You are correct that I could just rush straight into any housing and get my free assistent but I really don't have a problem with the difficulty of the game outside of the training itself. My plan is to build an assistent in the slums to my personal liking and then sell 1 or 2 witch doctors to buff my cash. At that point I'm going for the quest reward by building a fighter to trade in. After that I plan to move to the outcasts district near the farm and Bo the tattoo artist. I like that house and it has all of the same options as any other, but the more expensive farm is free there. I'll probably customize two of the rooms in the house but otherwise I like it and plan to work from there and it's the cheapest option of them all especially if you are taking into consideration all of the extra options. I'll probably take the free assistant chick and turn her into a cow for the free milk.
I believe you regarding fear but I can't cast high enough yet and I clearly didn't expect to run into this issue so early in the game. I started a new game today and this is the first slave I bought. Total pain in the butt however, I need to learn how to deal with these situations so I might as well do it now. I have the wizard robes and I'm casting daily so I figure I will gain the ability soon. It's the next spell I'm going to learn. I'm pretty much forced to only reward once and only use 1 point of reward or I'll be screwed but hopefully when my 4 ball of taming kicks in I can earn some loyalty through sex training and put all of this behind me. I'm not sure but I think the spoiling may be permanent like metabolism problems are on some slaves.
I believe you regarding fear but I can't cast high enough yet and I clearly didn't expect to run into this issue so early in the game. I started a new game today and this is the first slave I bought. Total pain in the butt however, I need to learn how to deal with these situations so I might as well do it now. I have the wizard robes and I'm casting daily so I figure I will gain the ability soon. It's the next spell I'm going to learn. I'm pretty much forced to only reward once and only use 1 point of reward or I'll be screwed but hopefully when my 4 ball of taming kicks in I can earn some loyalty through sex training and put all of this behind me. I'm not sure but I think the spoiling may be permanent like metabolism problems are on some slaves.