4.10 star(s) 186 Votes

dolfe67

Forum Fanatic
Apr 25, 2020
4,671
12,707
I think you're seeing a couple things.

  1. Confirmation bias- you're concerned about a trend so you're more likely to notice it elsewhere.
  2. Maturation of Patreon economy- Patreon as a portal for funding adult games has been around long enough now that I think we're seeing the maturation of the economic model. And that model is showing many shortcomings. Creators who learned of Patreon three or four years ago and jumped onboard, are now reaching a point of exhaustion. I think there's a collective coincidence where after three or so years developers start getting tired of their projects.
  3. COVID Burnout- Coupled with the maturation of the Patreon economy, the last two years saw an explosion in attention (and profit) for creators. For example, immediately following the shutdown in March 2020, F95 experienced a dramatic rise in new members. For creators, this opened up a vast new captive audience. This new audience wasn't only captive in their home, they were also deeply engaged. Correspondingly, devs now had fewer distractions and could focus on their games. But now, almost two full years later, I think we're seeing COVID burnout. Audiences are ferociously engaged, and the shine of the games has worn off. Now more is being demanded from the devs at a time when they're burnt out.
I really think 2 and 3 are the main culprits of what you're seeing. Without COVID burnout, we would probably still be seeing a lot of slowdown in the AVG market because of natural burnout. But considering the last two years, I think you're seeing an even higher degree of burnout than normal. So it feels like all of these great games are collapsing at the same time, and I think there's at least some truth to that. It may not be as severe as we think, but certainly some of the most highly regarded games on this forum are struggling to release new material. This isn't just a coincidence, I think there's probably a shelf life to every AVG before burnout sets in and the last two years have made the burnout more extreme.

This thread was started in July of 2018, so it's more than three and a half years old. Considering that there are still many years of development in front of the game, I think we're seeing a natural burnout from Stoper. Some will call this milking, but I don't see it that way. I think most devs want to finish their games, but they didn't plan ahead very well and are simply too burnt out to carry on. There's a lesson here for future devs, try to keep your games to something that can be completed in 36 months.
Very good points. I would also add that when you start a project it's all new and shiny and you're highly motivated. But after a couple years and the branching increasing, a solo dev can feel bored and lose motivation (covid or not covid, though there was an increase in new projects during it)
 
Oct 22, 2021
155
279
there will be another update, don't expect anything special, why did you even decide that he would do something special? what you have been waiting for 6 months means nothing, he will release an update whenever he wants, because his audience does not care, they will still support the game, and what people write on a pirate site does not matter to him.
Is this suzi from hillside vn? xD
 

Sombramain22

Member
Jul 10, 2021
153
186
so half a year for 1 event consisting 2 scenes - a lesbian and a faithful route? what a joke, if any of you are still supporting him on patreon i'd advice to just quit like i a did long time ago, stop enabling this type of behaviour




it seems like you spoke too soon, stoper saw the post and decided to throw himself into contention
image getting the game for free in compaing about it I could see if the guy was a a dev that was just taking money but there not plus covid fucked up alot of shit and you want them to just pump out upadates when he is the only fucking one make it get fucking real
 

TheUberstuff

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2020
1,014
1,330
image getting the game for free in compaing about it I could see if the guy was a a dev that was just taking money but there not plus covid fucked up alot of shit and you want them to just pump out upadates when he is the only fucking one make it get fucking real
Yes everything is covid's fault. I wouldn't be complaining if the dev would STOP advertising when they were going to release the next update OVER AND OVER AGAIN only for it not to happen each time. You can make all the excuses you want and support him all you want but people have legit issues with the way this is being done paying or not and if the dev would just shut up and not give out release dates that end up not happening / stringing people along / jerking people around to possibly try to keep interest high to keep getting money from his Patreons then I don't think people would be as angry.
 

GingerSweetGirl

Engaged Member
Aug 23, 2020
2,517
12,061
Yes everything is covid's fault. I wouldn't be complaining if the dev would STOP advertising when they were going to release the next update OVER AND OVER AGAIN only for it not to happen each time. You can make all the excuses you want and support him all you want but people have legit issues with the way this is being done paying or not and if the dev would just shut up and not give out release dates that end up not happening / stringing people along / jerking people around to possibly try to keep interest high to keep getting money from his Patreons then I don't think people would be as angry.
The solution isn't to stop giving release dates, the solution is to hold himself to his release date. He'll happily stop giving release dates on the future, and development will continue to get longer. The day he stops giving release information is the day the game drags out forever. He needs to learn how to give an accurate release date and to stick to it.
 
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TheUberstuff

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2020
1,014
1,330
The solution isn't to stop giving release dates, the solution is to hold himself to his release date. He'll happily stop giving release dates on the future, and development will continue to get longer. The day he stops giving release information is the day the game drags out forever. He needs to learn how to give an accurate release date and to stick to it.
Except he isn't sticking to release dates and I don't see any sign of that changing. The only other thing would be for Patreons to stop funding him completely with the message that they will start again once he puts out a MEANINGFUL update and not just some minor crap which most people here don't seem to care about much.
 

dolfe67

Forum Fanatic
Apr 25, 2020
4,671
12,707
Not giving a release date won't change the fact that people will complain if it takes too much time for an update, or it's because they abandon the game by themselves and forget about it.

Stoper has been quite open about his struggles, lack of motivation and inspiration. Though I don't see that changing soon. Don't expect more than 2 updates per year at max, and not with a lot of content (but still same quality), until it's officially abandoned
 

Olivia_V

Active Member
Jun 5, 2017
828
1,405
I think you're seeing a couple things.

  1. Confirmation bias- you're concerned about a trend so you're more likely to notice it elsewhere.
  2. Maturation of Patreon economy- Patreon as a portal for funding adult games has been around long enough now that I think we're seeing the maturation of the economic model. And that model is showing many shortcomings. Creators who learned of Patreon three or four years ago and jumped onboard, are now reaching a point of exhaustion. I think there's a collective coincidence where after three or so years developers start getting tired of their projects.
  3. COVID Burnout- Coupled with the maturation of the Patreon economy, the last two years saw an explosion in attention (and profit) for creators. For example, immediately following the shutdown in March 2020, F95 experienced a dramatic rise in new members. For creators, this opened up a vast new captive audience. This new audience wasn't only captive in their home, they were also deeply engaged. Correspondingly, devs now had fewer distractions and could focus on their games. But now, almost two full years later, I think we're seeing COVID burnout. Audiences are ferociously engaged, and the shine of the games has worn off. Now more is being demanded from the devs at a time when they're burnt out.
I really think 2 and 3 are the main culprits of what you're seeing. Without COVID burnout, we would probably still be seeing a lot of slowdown in the AVG market because of natural burnout. But considering the last two years, I think you're seeing an even higher degree of burnout than normal. So it feels like all of these great games are collapsing at the same time, and I think there's at least some truth to that. It may not be as severe as we think, but certainly some of the most highly regarded games on this forum are struggling to release new material. This isn't just a coincidence, I think there's probably a shelf life to every AVG before burnout sets in and the last two years have made the burnout more extreme.

This thread was started in July of 2018, so it's more than three and a half years old. Considering that there are still many years of development in front of the game, I think we're seeing a natural burnout from Stoper. Some will call this milking, but I don't see it that way. I think most devs want to finish their games, but they didn't plan ahead very well and are simply too burnt out to carry on. There's a lesson here for future devs, try to keep your games to something that can be completed in 36 months.
Burnout is a big deal in any creative endeavor. This is why devs, before they even start a game, should have the story and / or experience of the game plotted out from beginning to every possible ending, and then storyboarding them so planning the required images is easier. It is also why I always advocate that a dev never give the audience control over the product, which could easily result in resentment that eats at the enjoyment of making the game as well as create disruptions that will cause even more creative meandering that also fuels burnout.

Stoper flying by the seat of his pants, while creatively fulfilling for him I suppose, is 90% the reason why his dev schedule is all over the place. I once thought he already had the entire story mapped out. It looks like that isn't the case.
 

GingerSweetGirl

Engaged Member
Aug 23, 2020
2,517
12,061
Burnout is a big deal in any creative endeavor. This is why devs, before they even start a game, should have the story and / or experience of the game plotted out from beginning to every possible ending, and then storyboarding them so planning the required images is easier. It is also why I always advocate that a dev never give the audience control over the product, which could easily result in resentment that eats at the enjoyment of making the game as well as create disruptions that will cause even more creative meandering that also fuels burnout.

Stoper flying by the seat of his pants, while creatively fulfilling for him I suppose, is 90% the reason why his dev schedule is all over the place. I once thought he already had the entire story mapped out. It looks like that isn't the case.
And to make matters worse, I don't think this is creatively fulfilling to him anymore. I get the impression on these slow burn games that the build up is what burns out a developer. Spending all this time on foundational, non-sexy, scenes can get tedious. I think that tedium, and the complexity of the branching paths, dooms many games.
 
Jan 3, 2019
401
1,014
And to make matters worse, I don't think this is creatively fulfilling to him anymore. I get the impression on these slow burn games that the build up is what burns out a developer. Spending all this time on foundational, non-sexy, scenes can get tedious. I think that tedium, and the complexity of the branching paths, dooms many games.
So what's stopping him from doing more sex scenes? He could perfectly include spontaneous sex in the game with a teacher who accidentally penetrated her (two actions to push him away or let her be pinned to the table and fucked) or with Parker to have sex in the heat of a drunken frenzy at the car in the alley (by the way, Mr. Parker's penis needs to be slightly reduced, otherwise it looks like he has a piece of wood) or the development of events with an office kid, like invited him home together to make an investigation plan, and She goes takes a bath and puts on a short robe and fucking began. :KEK:
 

TheUberstuff

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2020
1,014
1,330
So what's stopping him from doing more sex scenes? He could perfectly include spontaneous sex in the game with a teacher who accidentally penetrated her (two actions to push him away or let her be pinned to the table and fucked) or with Parker to have sex in the heat of a drunken frenzy at the car in the alley (by the way, Mr. Parker's penis needs to be slightly reduced, otherwise it looks like he has a piece of wood) or the development of events with an office kid, like invited him home together to make an investigation plan, and She goes takes a bath and puts on a short robe and fucking began. :KEK:
Or having the principle "accidently" push her underwear aside and fuck her? But yeah I agree, if the non-sex scenes (which is what most of us perfer I think) are what is tiring him out then make less of those and more sex scenes. I honestly like the story but I do think there is too much filler mainly because its like 80% buildup so far. Also if he craps out now because of the non-sex scenes or whatever reason we will have gone through the buildup for NOTHING or next to nothing.
 

GingerSweetGirl

Engaged Member
Aug 23, 2020
2,517
12,061
So what's stopping him from doing more sex scenes? He could perfectly include spontaneous sex in the game with a teacher who accidentally penetrated her (two actions to push him away or let her be pinned to the table and fucked) or with Parker to have sex in the heat of a drunken frenzy at the car in the alley (by the way, Mr. Parker's penis needs to be slightly reduced, otherwise it looks like he has a piece of wood) or the development of events with an office kid, like invited him home together to make an investigation plan, and She goes takes a bath and puts on a short robe and fucking began. :KEK:
Or having the principle "accidently" push her underwear aside and fuck her? But yeah I agree, if the non-sex scenes (which is what most of us perfer I think) are what is tiring him out then make less of those and more sex scenes. I honestly like the story but I do think there is too much filler mainly because its like 80% buildup so far. Also if he craps out now because of the non-sex scenes or whatever reason we will have gone through the buildup for NOTHING or next to nothing.
I think there's a rigid adherence to "the plan". Something like "I have this plan for how the corruption will develop, and in order for it to work then events A, B, and C all need to happen first." These events will corrupt the MC, but they also require setup, so suddenly it becomes a lot of slow plodding to set up even just "Event A". If he jumps right into the sex it can/could break all of the immersion for a huge portion of the players, and that can kill the game. The whole point of a game like JOHN is that it isn't a cheap fuckfest and that sex has to be earned. But I think many games like JOHN have gone too far with the slow burn. At some point we're all here for fun and sex, and I think some devs have forgotten that. Instead, they're so concerned with making the story progress at their predetermined pace that they've lost the point and aren't having fun.

IMO that seems to be exactly what happened with Stoper on this update. Whatever the original plan for this update was, it must have been really boring to him. I think it may have included a lot of foundation building, just so he could do more build up later. Even the Blake event itself sounds like it isn't very interesting to him and it's probably geared more towards setting up future sex.

I think we need more games that are quick, fun, and punchy. You can have lots of sex without cheapening it. You can have fun plot that makes the characters interesting. But we need to move away from games that wait 2, 3, 4+ years before there's payoff. Not so much because we need to rush into sex, but more because games that wait that long collapse under their own expectations. Devs should allow their stories to be fun, and they should concentrate on making their game fun to produce, even if it stretches believability. If you're environments and characters are boring you then don't rigidly stick with it just because that's the plan. Allow yourself to have fun, otherwise you'll burn out.
 
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GingerSweetGirl

Engaged Member
Aug 23, 2020
2,517
12,061
And that's the thing I like. "Hi miss, I'm the cable guy and I'm here to fix you" maybe is fun but it's not a game, it's simply pornografy, nothing more, nothing less.

P.S.
There are A LOT of sex scenes in JOHN, by the way. For a 0.45 release.
To be clear, I was speaking broadly besides just JOHN. But you're right that JOHN is by no means the worst offender when it comes to sexual content. That said, it has still been a slow burn and I think that weighs heavily on it. Waiting 3+ years for a blowjob is asking a lot from an audience. It also requires such a slow progression that the dev themselves can become bored.

I think Stoper tried to implement some lessons from other slow burn games, but I don't think he executed those lessons correctly. This game should be well past half way after almost 4 years, but we're not even close. That means we're still in Act 1, and dealing with foundation building.

There must be a better way to balance build-up and the payoff.
 

TheUberstuff

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2020
1,014
1,330
And that's the thing I like. "Hi miss, I'm the cable guy and I'm here to fix you" maybe is fun but it's not a game, it's simply pornografy, nothing more, nothing less.

P.S.
There are A LOT of sex scenes in JOHN, by the way. For a 0.45 release.
I do like games with some buildup and story but the story shouldn't dominate the game SOOOOO much that the sex scenes take forever.
 
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Journey95

Active Member
Jun 23, 2018
865
1,678
And that's the thing I like. "Hi miss, I'm the cable guy and I'm here to fix you" maybe is fun but it's not a game, it's simply pornografy, nothing more, nothing less.

P.S.
There are A LOT of sex scenes in JOHN, by the way. For a 0.45 release.
Most of the sex scenes in this game are with her boring boyfriend..that's not interesting
 
4.10 star(s) 186 Votes