gregers

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Dec 9, 2018
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Is there any discussion yet about "Fratricide" (= the act of killing one's own brother)?

I don't think it is by accident that we have 2 brothers as MCs who are named after 2 of the most well known brother killers in mythologie.

Kane or Cain killed his (younger) brother Abel in the biblical Book of Genesis.
"Cain, the firstborn, was a farmer, and his brother Abel was a shepherd. The brothers made sacrifices to God, but God favored Abel's sacrifice instead of Cain's. Cain then murdered Abel, whereupon God punished Cain by condemning him to a life of wandering."

Set or Seth killed his (older) brother Osiris in egyptian mythologie.
"Set is a god of deserts, storms, disorder, violence, and foreigners in ancient Egyptian religion.  In Ancient Greek, the god's name is given as Sēth. Set had a positive role where he accompanies Ra on his barque to repel Apep, the serpent of Chaos. Set had a vital role as a reconciled combatant.  He was lord of the Red Land (desert), where he was the balance to Horus' role as lord of the Black Land (fertile land)."
"Osiris is the god of fertility, agriculture, the afterlife, the dead, resurrection, life, and vegetation in ancient Egyptian religion."
"In the Osiris myth, the most important Egyptian myth, Set is portrayed as the usurper who murdered and mutilated his own brother, Osiris."

So there might be endings where Kane kills Seth and vice versa, maybe based on good versus evil rating. (Evil Kane kills Seth to take over the company, good Seth kills evil Kane to save the world, ...)
Seth is the younger brother of Cain and Abel, born after Cain slew Abel and was cursed to wander the Earth. In Genesis he's the ancestor of Noah and thereby all of humanity that survives the Flood.

I ain't gonna speculate on the significance, if any, but any parent who names their kids Kane and Seth may have some ... peculiar ambitions on their behalf.
 
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Samustus

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Feb 1, 2021
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Hi guys.

Does anyone know what the "DocH" variable is regarding Doctor Chastain? Does 'H=Hate'? Just previously I joined the K2DomTeam, so it would be weird if it was hate when ordering her on her knees. However, it also makes sense if she is a dom too and an executive.

Also, what are 'E DomPnts'?
 
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Remembrance

Member
Feb 1, 2020
378
533
Is there any discussion yet about "Fratricide" (= the act of killing one's own brother)?

I don't think it is by accident that we have 2 brothers as MCs who are named after 2 of the most well known brother killers in mythologie.

Kane or Cain killed his (younger) brother Abel in the biblical Book of Genesis.
"Cain, the firstborn, was a farmer, and his brother Abel was a shepherd. The brothers made sacrifices to God, but God favored Abel's sacrifice instead of Cain's. Cain then murdered Abel, whereupon God punished Cain by condemning him to a life of wandering."

Set or Seth killed his (older) brother Osiris in egyptian mythologie.
"Set is a god of deserts, storms, disorder, violence, and foreigners in ancient Egyptian religion.  In Ancient Greek, the god's name is given as Sēth. Set had a positive role where he accompanies Ra on his barque to repel Apep, the serpent of Chaos. Set had a vital role as a reconciled combatant.  He was lord of the Red Land (desert), where he was the balance to Horus' role as lord of the Black Land (fertile land)."
"Osiris is the god of fertility, agriculture, the afterlife, the dead, resurrection, life, and vegetation in ancient Egyptian religion."
"In the Osiris myth, the most important Egyptian myth, Set is portrayed as the usurper who murdered and mutilated his own brother, Osiris."

So there might be endings where Kane kills Seth and vice versa, maybe based on good versus evil rating. (Evil Kane kills Seth to take over the company, good Seth kills evil Kane to save the world, ...)
Seth is the younger brother of Cain and Abel, born after Cain slew Abel and was cursed to wander the Earth. In Genesis he's the ancestor of Noah and thereby all of humanity that survives the Flood.

I ain't gonna speculate on the significance, if any, but any parent who names their kids Kane and Seth may have some ... peculiar ambitions on their behalf.
Even if there is any significance (and given devs fondness of god/mythological names, it is very likely), there cannot be too much of a pay-off in-game dialogue-wise, about the naming, cause both names are customisable. Like I don't use Kane for my MC, hence dialogue referencing it cannot be used in my playthru.
Also, if my Olivia theory is true & Olivia had great knowledge of the Gambit during the hiking flashback, or atleast the person originally posing the question to Olivia had the knowledge, then the question takes on real significance in this regard, greater than just a whimsical hypothetical by Olivia.
Can you consider 'not saving'/sacrificing to save others, as fatricide??

But I don't think Seth story will have that much power. But Seth development has been very thin so far, so cannot speculate.
Anyway, I hope there's a way to avoid it.
I want MC at the top as dom, Olivia secret sub to mc but dom to others & Seth in a gentle sub relationship with Kiyomi. All in one big team. :giggle:

Hi guys.

Does anyone know what the "DocH" variable is regarding Doctor Chastain? Does 'H=Hate'? Just previously I joined the K2DomTeam, so it would be weird if it was hate when ordering her on her knees. However, it also makes sense if she is a dom too and an executive.

Also, what are 'E DomPnts'?
The game rewards dominant actions on the dom path. So not ordering the doctor, not examining your assistant, not groping any pod girl, etc. Will have negative (sub) consequences, i.e. the characters will view you as more sub.

So I don't think DocH is hate, rather it should be a variable you want if you want to maintain a dominant relationship with her.

edompnts are points to be used for the evaluation in ch8. Making wrong choices awards these points so less edompts means you perform better.

This is cause many route branches are conditional. Like you may get 3 choices in one route & 4 in another. So edompnts measures how many you got wrong, not how many you got right, since the ceiling for right answer points would be inconsistent (3v4) but it'd be consistent for wrong answer points(0=best).
 
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deuxrayme

Member
Nov 4, 2018
456
1,206
Is there any discussion yet about "Fratricide" (= the act of killing one's own brother)?

I don't think it is by accident that we have 2 brothers as MCs who are named after 2 of the most well known brother killers in mythologie.

Kane or Cain killed his (younger) brother Abel in the biblical Book of Genesis.
"Cain, the firstborn, was a farmer, and his brother Abel was a shepherd. The brothers made sacrifices to God, but God favored Abel's sacrifice instead of Cain's. Cain then murdered Abel, whereupon God punished Cain by condemning him to a life of wandering."

Set or Seth killed his (older) brother Osiris in egyptian mythologie.
"Set is a god of deserts, storms, disorder, violence, and foreigners in ancient Egyptian religion.  In Ancient Greek, the god's name is given as Sēth. Set had a positive role where he accompanies Ra on his barque to repel Apep, the serpent of Chaos. Set had a vital role as a reconciled combatant.  He was lord of the Red Land (desert), where he was the balance to Horus' role as lord of the Black Land (fertile land)."
"Osiris is the god of fertility, agriculture, the afterlife, the dead, resurrection, life, and vegetation in ancient Egyptian religion."
"In the Osiris myth, the most important Egyptian myth, Set is portrayed as the usurper who murdered and mutilated his own brother, Osiris."

So there might be endings where Kane kills Seth and vice versa, maybe based on good versus evil rating. (Evil Kane kills Seth to take over the company, good Seth kills evil Kane to save the world, ...)
I'm sure Veronica's question to Olivia that hinted at sacrificing Seth will be presented in some way to Kane before the end. Even though there is no biological link between Olivia and the others, she had them as adopted brothers for ~20 years.

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Yotanbamix

Newbie
Apr 2, 2022
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Seth is the younger brother of Cain and Abel, born after Cain slew Abel and was cursed to wander the Earth. In Genesis he's the ancestor of Noah and thereby all of humanity that survives the Flood.

I ain't gonna speculate on the significance, if any, but any parent who names their kids Kane and Seth may have some ... peculiar ambitions on their behalf.
There is also Project Noah, I have always wondered if they were just some references, or if all those names had a specific meaning. Especially when the most important choice in the last episode also adds flags referencing Sumerian gods.
 
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f96zonetrooper

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Dec 21, 2018
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There is also Project Noah, I have always wondered if they were just some references, or if all those names had a specific meaning. Especially when the most important choice in the last episode also adds flags referencing Sumerian gods.
Noah might most likely just be a reference to "Noah's Ark", "the ship in the Genesis flood narrative through which God spares Noah, his family, and examples of all the world's animals from a global deluge."
Everybody knows the story of the Ark but most people don't know that in the bible Noah had an ancestor named Seth.

"the Bible's story of Noah's Ark is based on older Mesopotamian models. Because all these flood stories deal with events that allegedly happened at the dawn of history, they give the impression that the myths themselves must come from very primitive origins, but the myth of the global flood that destroys all life only begins to appear in the Old Babylonian period (20th–16th centuries BCE)."
 

MilesEdgeworth

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Nov 8, 2021
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Nice biblical connotations. I did figure something was up with the names, esp after i figured out who grym was.

Heres a challenge, post your craziest theories. (so crazy they probably arent true but are still possible).

My craziest one is currently that at least one of the karlsson sisters is the mom of dominique or veronica. Which obvs means alexander was just pretending to be the daddy this whole time in my scenario
 

Remembrance

Member
Feb 1, 2020
378
533
While I didn't think about the biblical names too much (Set/Seth is too obscure, not to mention Seth isn't as important compared to Olivia/MC so far), I kinda guessed the hard choices from the hiking question.
The walkthrough says MC can die on the sub path if playing as k1. So being the protagonist isn't gonna be a plot armor.

So the naming hints relating to siblings killing/sacrificing each other is kinda wasted at this point (would've been epic if this relation was discovered in the early chapters, before the general trend of the game's situation was seen), since most people, consciously or subconsciously, aren't shocked - or rather expect such a situation to be one of the more twisted ending variations.

But the other aspects of the naming might be considered.
At 1st I thought Seth's disease was just a convenient plot device, but as the story went on, it felt more & more important, especially after Astrid was revealed. It can even be considered that the disease is the biggest reason he's in the Gambit, his main role.
What if everything is connected? I already theorised that the 'It' mentioned by Cole was the main reason for everything.
Then that also connects Seth's disease & the problems faced by noah, since both are caused by it.

Since Seth was the ancestor of Noah, maybe he will become the main lever of project Noah to restart the world, with Olivia+MC needing to decide whether to sacrifice him for the 'greater good' or try to look for alternatives to preserve his life. :unsure:
 

f96zonetrooper

Engaged Member
Dec 21, 2018
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...
At 1st I thought Seth's disease was just a convenient plot device, but as the story went on, it felt more & more important, especially after Astrid was revealed. It can even be considered that the disease is the biggest reason he's in the Gambit, his main role.
...
I think Seth and his disease are just there by accident, not by plan. Callista and her children most of the years lived on their own outside of Karlsson's reach. Seth could have easily died and the Karlsson's would not have noticed. They intervened just when the Game had started ca 3 months after Karlsson's death and at that time Seth was almost dead, a hopeless case unless you spend millions of dollars and use best equipment and personell. Seth was (un)lucky to still be alive to participate in the game.
It seems that the world in KG is much more dangerous than our own world today (unless you live in a war zone.) So even Kane could have died by accident, in a fight with the wrong people, having a car accident, getting cancer, etc. It is a bad idea to base longtime plans for important matters on the uncertain survival of a few individuals in a dangerous environment.

If Seth's disease is caused by a genetical defect which is inherited from and so is present in one or more members of the big clans like the deKock or Karlsson, then the genetical defect is not new information and should be known to Veronica from previous cases. So Seth is more like another Guinea Pig to find a possible cure for a rare disease (which might be not so rare among the Karlssons and/or DeKocks.)
 
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Choooogatta

Newbie
Sep 8, 2021
42
42
CRAZIEST theories:

Project Noah is quite literal. 99% of animal life on Earth been infected/corrupted by alien/mutant lifeforms of a microscopic nature. (think the flood, or mushrooms from the last of us) Veronica and Dominique are trying to restore/rebuild long after most have given up hope on building a better world then humanity has managed to scrape together currently.

The unlivable zone is unlivable for humans because IT can live there.

----

Olivia Karlsson is the Karlsson sister from the opening hospital scene in the dark. She found a way to contact her father remotely via messaging and pulled the plug on him to accelerate the trial and thusly, her own advancement.

----

Juliette is a constantly oozing wound of resentment and bitterness towards her environment and circumstances and can be healed if everything falls into her place re, the gambit. She enjoys witnessing others suffering through no fault or failure of their own and feels cheated by the world.

----

The miss Karlsson that came out of cryo was actually the aunt who resembles Olivia and at some point she is going to attempt to impersonate/replace Olivia. The Karlsson sister with the stage 5 condition was a red herring for the coming out of cryo scene.

----

Seth and K5 sister's "super rare" condition is actually the blight upon Earth and almost everyone got it and/or has it.
 
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Remembrance

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I think Seth and his disease are just there by accident, not by plan. Callista and her children most of the years lived on their own outside of Karlsson's reach. Seth could have easily died and the Karlsson's would not have noticed. They intervened just when the Game had started ca 3 months after Karlsson's death and at that time Seth was almost dead, a hopeless case unless you spend millions of dollars and use best equipment and personell. Seth was (un)lucky to still be alive to participate in the game.
It seems that the world in KG is much more dangerous than our own world today (unless you live in a war zone.) So even Kane could have died by accident, in a fight with the wrong people, having a car accident, getting cancer, etc. Longtime plans based on only a few individuals are too uncertain for important matters.

If Seth's disease is caused by a genetical defect which is inherited from and so is present in one or more members of the big clans like the deKock or Karlsson, then the genetical defect is not new information and should be known to Veronica from previous cases. So Seth is more like another Guinea Pig to find a possible cure for a rare disease (which might be not so rare among the Karlssons and/or DeKocks.)
Ch6+7 flashbacks already established it more or less that it's not a coincidence that the concerns you stated (mc or Seth dying) didn't come to pass.
Mistress Callista had access to a helicopter & Otto. (also a car iirc, even tho mc & olivia state to the karlssons that they only learned to drive through a car repair shop job they had - i.e. no personal cars)
If Seth really was in danger, & Callista wanted to save him, she had more than enough avenues.

"Longtime plans based on only a few individuals are too uncertain for important matters." - yet the Gambit is such a plan. Which is why I believe nothing about the 3 siblings was left to chance. Either by Callista alone, or with help from Alexander and/or the DeKocks.

"I think Seth and his disease are just there by accident, not by plan." - well, you can't plan a genetic disease after all.
If you consider Seth's parentage as uncertain, it be theorized that Seth was found & carefully preserved upto a certain condition (the brink of death) just for his condition.

We can see Veronica experimenting on similar cases of variants of the disease(Veronica science work in ch5). But breakthroughs only happened after Seth was acquired by her. Even the dialogue by the island4 scientists mention Seth specifically (counterpart - speculation).
So we can maybe consider that Seth's variant of the disease may have some significance. :unsure:

Note: There's not much Seth stuff in the story yet to accurately theorise about him. Even the Seth's pregnancy thing was used by me to formulate a Olivia theory instead of anything related to Seth.
Even all I said is related to other hints (like Callista preparing the 3 for the Gambit, etc) instead of direct Seth hints.
I only related Seth to Noah cause of the biblical connection, & it's always unreliable to use naming to guess these stuff.

I already asked once about Seth, he's one of the most open ended characters so far, but I'm guessing we'll get more into him in the following chapters, since the island4 transfer feels like a (new) beginning for his larger arc. Maybe even a flashback (after 2 consequetive Olivia flashback chapters, it's be good to change it up a bit rn)
 
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f96zonetrooper

Engaged Member
Dec 21, 2018
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If Seth really was in danger, & Callista wanted to save him, she had more than enough avenues.
Callista died or vanished some time (years?) ago.
Also, then the whole dialog of Olivia and the doctor regarding Seth in hospital in ch. 1 does not make much sense. (Especially since we know that Olivia knows more ...) Wouldn't Olivia save Seth's health before permanent damage eg to his legs occured?

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Remembrance

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Callista died or vanished some time (years?) ago.
Also, then the whole dialog of Olivia and the doctor regarding Seth in hospital in ch. 1 does not make much sense. (Especially since we know that Olivia knows more ...) Wouldn't Olivia save Seth's health before permanent damage eg to his legs occured?
Callista being alive & kicking as the gambit queen is a popular theory (I'm not confident enough to say 100% after the grymgudinna fakeout, but it's very likely)

I almost put the doctor scene in my Olivia theory post, but it was too variable/speculative.
dj "So again, I hate to but have to ask...are you just prolonging his suffering for nothing?"
sis "How much longer can you keep him stable without more permanent damage?"

If she knew too much detail, she knew Seth would've been saved before he dies, since she'd have a sense of the timeline. Hence refusing to pull the plug.
If she didn't know, she had the option to reach out to people we now know she knew had the money & connection to her mother - the Karlssons and/or Otto(DeKocks)
Here the variations increase too much. It can be said it proves she knew too much, it can also be that she was hoping it'd be fine & reaching out to the Karlssons/DeKocks against her mother's wishes would have been her last resort. Hence I didn't include it in my Olivia theory.

The most important fact however is what you said earlier: "Longtime plans based on only a few individuals are too uncertain for important matters."
Everything points to the gambit being carefully arranged by multiple individuals for their own plans over multiple years.
Not taking care of Seth with a terminal illness is not something consistent with any of these forces.

Even just considering Callista, given how she's presented throughout the story, it'd be very un-characteristic of her to not leave redundancies leveraging her relation with Cynthia/Cole and/or Veronica to save Seth in the event of her untimely death.

Basically the whole atmosphere of the game & the presentation/characterisation of Callista & co(Alexander, etc) seem to imply the 3 siblings were carefully raised as lambs to the Gambit instead of dumb luck allowing the Gambit to happen. Everything is too deliberate in the game for that.
That's how it feels to me anyway.
 
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MilesEdgeworth

Well-Known Member
Nov 8, 2021
1,128
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Ch6+7 flashbacks already established it more or less that it's not a coincidence that the concerns you stated (mc or Seth dying) didn't come to pass.
Mistress Callista had access to a helicopter & Otto. (also a car iirc, even tho mc & olivia state to the karlssons that they only learned to drive through a car repair shop job they had - i.e. no personal cars)
If Seth really was in danger, & Callista wanted to save him, she had more than enough avenues.
What other avenues did she have? Nobody including veronica has the cure and the karllsons are the closest to understanding the disease. She absolutely needs the karllsons to heal her son. She didnt even train Kane for the game ahead which shows just how little that she planned for that eventuality.
 
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Stan5851

Engaged Member
Oct 18, 2019
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CRAZIEST theories:

Project Noah is quite literal. 99% of animal life on Earth been infected/corrupted by alien/mutant lifeforms of a microscopic nature. (think the flood, or mushrooms from the last of us) Veronica and Dominique are trying to restore/rebuild long after most have given up hope on building a better world then humanity has managed to scrape together currently.

The unlivable zone is unlivable for humans because IT can live there.

----

Olivia Karlsson is the Karlsson sister from the opening hospital scene in the dark. She found a way to contact her father remotely via messaging and pulled the plug on him to accelerate the trial and thusly, her own advancement.

----

Juliette is a constantly oozing wound of resentment and bitterness towards her environment and circumstances and can be healed if everything falls into her place re, the gambit. She enjoys witnessing others suffering through no fault or failure of their own and feels cheated by the world.

----

The miss Karlsson that came out of cryo was actually the aunt who resembles Olivia and at some point she is going to attempt to impersonate/replace Olivia. The Karlsson sister with the stage 5 condition was a red herring for the coming out of cryo scene.

----

Seth and K5 sister's "super rare" condition is actually the blight upon Earth and almost everyone got it and/or has it.
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Remembrance

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She didnt even train Kane for the game ahead which shows just how little that she planned for that eventuality.
Read the hiking flashback. Or the Stacy flashback. MC was trained a lot. Not specifically for the game, but rather for success.
She basically made him study the complete subject instead of making him solve practice papers for a specific exam.

What other avenues did she have?
She could reach out to Veronica disregarding everything if she was desperate for Seth's life. It's been established how brilliant she is, so she could've worked with her solve the disease much faster & saved her son soo much pain.
She could've partnered up with the DeKocks & their researchers to work on it.
At the very least, it'd have been better than a public institute with a lack of funds.
Seth would've been more comfortable at the least & could've been frozen like Astrid at the worst.
Remember the DeKocks are on par with the Karlssons, despite not having a Veronica.

Nobody including veronica has the cure and the karllsons are the closest to understanding the disease. She absolutely needs the karllsons to heal her son.
Maybe not 100% guaranteed (DeKocks, Callista herself is brilliant, etc.) but true enough.
Yet Callista didn't desperately knock on their doors, showing she still had some amount of control over the situation.

I didn't mean she could save him, but that she had options/avenues other than leaving him in a subpar public hospital.

But that's what happened. The great Callista, spoken of so highly by everyone in the game, could only manage to leave the fate of her terminally ill son to a subpar hospital.
It just doesn't match. Rather it's more convincing & in-line with her image if it was deliberate. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
 
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