VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2 Test] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[ramvivat]

Damn. Every time I read the phrase "Karlsson's Gambit" the first association that comes to mind is Morrison's Hotel (by Doors)
(I wonder if the locals listen to this music? Yeah, damn, it sounds like "I'm old, I'm very old, I'm a super-star!" in russian я стар, я очень стар, я супер-стар. Ummm... Anyway, that's a Russian joke - it doesn't work here, haha...)

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

I just realized something since tess calls herself grymm gudinna irl there are two grymms in Karlssons gambit unless tess randomly gave away a yooge spoiler

 

[Maviarab]

Alright guys and girls...While we are all waiting for the final version of Ep8 pt2 to be released, I invite you to share your TOP-5 most favorite renders of the test version. Just 5 renders, no more, no less. If your choice happens to coincide with someone else's, that's great too, it means you have a kindred spirit, hehe. Well, here we go.

And please don't forget to put them under a spoiler, respecting those people who deliberately skipped the test version and are waiting for the final.

Spoiler: I'll start with my TOP-5

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Sorry Stan....can't comply. One stands out head and shoulders above all the rest that it's not even close, so can only show one I'm afraid. The girl, the lighting, the pose, angle...

Spoiler

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[jadepaladin]

Sorry Stan....can't comply. One stands out head and shoulders above all the rest that it's not even close, so can only show one I'm afraid. The girl, the lighting, the pose, angle...

Spoiler

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Almost posted five renders of her (even had them saved and ready) but decided to take it more seriously.

 

[Stan5851]

Sorry Stan....can't comply. One stands out head and shoulders above all the rest that it's not even close, so can only show one I'm afraid. The girl, the lighting, the pose, angle...

Spoiler

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Mav, I can't blame you for that...Angelica is our universal favorite and it's probably the only character on which none of us have disagreements...As for the idea of the top-5 renders, I deliberately limited it to 5 pieces, because if you publish everything you liked in the game, especially focusing on beautiful angles, there's not enough space, haha. Okay guys, I have to leave you temporarily, because the new FB update won't wait..3400 renders is a hell of a lot.

 

[PickerLewd]

Apart from the Anais game, I think that if Tess has time to finish KG and make a second title, the game will be different.

Because what keeps the perversions and the little world of Sub and Dom is the dystopia of the almost destroyed world of KG and the Facility plus the games the witches created .

Maybe their second game will be set in the same universe but far in the future with different kinds of fetishes. For example, what would the fetish of having sex with an alien be called? .

Edit: I should clarify that I am not referring to the one metre tall and very ugly aliens known as the Greys, but to characters who look more like humans in space fiction, such as Ahsoka, etc.

 

[Stan5851]

And btw, Mav, thanks for the Q&A update. The news about Angelica (Tess's answer to question 14) didn't make me too happy...Looks like the Doms will have to choose between her and the others, and the dream of an Olivia+Angelica mini-harem looks like it will remain a dream...

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Heres mine though Tess and her action photos were a pain to catch. Also, no angelica

Spoiler

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All faves all relevant to the ongoing story except for the one with my current fav slave

 

[L7Bear]

Ah someone else fell into the trap of criticizing any aspect of this game, even after complimenting the game itself. Let's see what it was met with.... oh "you're wrong, you're whining, you're shitting on this game" hahaha classic.

Pretty sure this isn't even the first time I tried providing criticism and got flamed for it in this particular thread...
I know that already happened in the discord for this game, and I've since signed out of that server.
Oh, and then there was the time this game was looking for a writer, and oh boy did that not go well at all.
Someday I'll learn from my mistakes and just stop interacting with the community for this game, but in the mean time I'll stupidly wonder, "Well, maybe if I say/said..."

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[L7Bear]

I love the story, and you're shitting on it for the exact reasons why I love it. I think her use of narrative and indirect exposition has been genius. Your rule doesn't make sense here because Tess has proven how absurdly meticulous she is. And the 'no matter how loudly they proclaim otherwise' bit makes even less sense because everything is obviously intentionally written to be vague and subtle. Pearls before swine.



1) It's the revolution. They're keeping it a secret from Veronica, but as Miles pointed out, she already knows.

2) It's just scuba diving. Veronica babies Astrid too much and would refuse to let her do it.



The story doesn't work if it's not vague. Like, it doesn't work at all. Your complaints are like hating a murder mystery novel for not revealing the culprit on the first page.

I honestly do hate your assessment, but please don't feel personally attacked by me. I'm only coming off as mean because it's written text. If we were having this conversation face-to-face you would know I've got no problem with you.

Minor edits, but I just realized you might not have played all (or even many?) of the routes because Astrid and Yvette are only revealed as major players behind the revolutions taking place are only revealed on a specific route where a Good + Dominant Kane is friends with Junko and is approached by Otto to be recruited and later contacted by Yvette and Astrid.

Now I'm wondering what sort of experience a first-time reader would have going from episode 1-8 on a single route.

I'll admit that I could've worded my criticism better. I didn't need to mention J.J.Abrams or Battlestar Galactica or any of that. I should've focused just on my displeasure with the overt vagueness and hiding things from players in a way that was probably designed to seem mysterious. I could've mentioned that I've been alive so long that I didn't find it mysterious.

However, "shitting on it"??? "Pearls before swine."??? You're being rude. Please stop.

Spoiler: Apologies if this spoiled anything for anyone.

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[Stan5851]

I'll admit that I could've worded my criticism better. I didn't need to mention J.J.Abrams or Battlestar Galactica or any of that. I should've focused just on my displeasure with the overt vagueness and hiding things from players in a way that was probably designed to seem mysterious. I could've mentioned that I've been alive so long that I didn't find it mysterious.

However, "shitting on it"??? "Pearls before swine."??? You're being rude. Please stop.

As for the examples I provided, I simply picked two from the scene that irritated me to the point of writing my criticism. I haven't finished the current release. I really love the game and I am savoring it. They were good examples of my main point (intentional vagueness to the point that it doesn't make sense for the characters to speak that way in private EXCEPT that the author is trying to hide something from the player.)

As for each one:
1) As previously mentioned, they both discuss the revolution in that scene, so if that's what they're dancing around talking about... well, that's a bit weird. I'll take your word (and Miles' word) for it that they are talking about the revolution, but as far as I am in the game that explanation doesn't really make sense to me. I guess that's part of the problem with being deliberately, overtly vague.
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2) Well, that's definitely a problem with being deliberately, overtly vague. It is never specified - even after they go scuba diving it is never clearly stated that was what Astrid was talking about. Also, it's unclear why she needs Yvette's permission. It establishes there is a conflict, skips over the conflict, resolves the conflict without clarifying what the conflict was about, and then moves out without that conflict/resolution having any apparent impact on the story/characters. What was the point?
View attachment 4443288 View attachment 4443290 View attachment 4443291 View attachment 4443292 View attachment 4443293 View attachment 4443295 View attachment 4443296 View attachment 4443297

As for the murder mystery novel comparison, a bit of an aside.
Not that it has anything to do with this discussion, but every episode of Colombo started with the audience seeing the murderer and how the murder took place. Yet it was still fascinating and popular. Again, that has nothing to do with this game, but if done properly you can spoil the mystery and still keep the audience entertained and engaged.
After all, if you couldn't enjoy a story/film/game without spoilers, why would anyone want to reread/replay it after they read/saw/played it the first time?
Anyway.

I have no problem if you disagree with my assessment, but hate? Hate? Really?
I'm not sure why anyone should experience hate or disgust at what I wrote.
Even if I really did come here and just (figuratively) shit all over the story, artwork, game, etc... would that be reason to upset/angry enough to hate it?
Maybe if you were the author and felt personally attacked, or like the game was your baby and needed to be protected/defended.
Anyway, you might want to do some soul-searching about why you reacted so strongly to my criticism of one aspect of the writing style of this game.

I don't understand your assessment that "The story doesn't work if it's not vague. Like, it doesn't work at all."
It is not that I disagree, per se. I'm not even sure that I don't agree. I just don't understand.
But that's okay. I'm content to keep playing the game and enjoying it as is.
I made a statement about my opinion on a specific writing technique. Agree, disagree, indifferent, whatever. It's just one person's opinion.

As they say, "Opinions are like assholes. It is uncomfortable to get sodomized, but some people enjoy it while others hate it." That's how that saying goes, right?

BTW. Early on I had about 5 or 6 different playthrus going, but these days I'm down to two. I've got the modded playthrough where I used the walkthru to optimize the MC's rank/position. My second playthru is pretty much the opposite - seeing just how different the game plays out when the MC is as pathetic as possible. As for the current release, I'm still slowly savoring my way through my main where even Olivia is suggesting she might be working under the MC soon.

L7Bear Please put the information under a spoiler. We should respect those players who consciously skip the test version and wait for the final. Thanks.

 

[kinkyshin]

However, "shitting on it"??? "Pearls before swine."??? You're being rude. Please stop.

Again, you're criticizing amazing writing for exactly what makes it so amazing. It's absurd.

In case you forgot what you said, you were going on about how the writer "doesn't have a fucking clue what the mystery is" and is "going to botch it at the end" because of some bizarre rule you made up after watching a few JJ Abrams films. Everything you say is just so nonsensical that it's a struggle to even figure out an appropriate response.

They were good examples of my main point (intentional vagueness to the point that it doesn't make sense for the characters to speak that way in private EXCEPT that the author is trying to hide something from the player.)

Actually, they were terrible examples and you're the only one here that's confused.

As for each one:

1) As previously mentioned, they both discuss the revolution in that scene, so if that's what they're dancing around talking about... well, that's a bit weird. I'll take your word (and Miles' word) for it that they are talking about the revolution, but as far as I am in the game that explanation doesn't really make sense to me. I guess that's part of the problem with being deliberately, overtly vague.

Yes, because the author isn't straight up telling you.. she's giving you 2+2 and letting you figure it out yourself.

When you read this scene for the first time you're only given half the information, and later on, you'll be given the other half which will allow you to reach the conclusion yourself.

This was a very simple thing to connect if you had seen the other scene, but as I edited it later, I pointed out that you might not have seen the other scene that gave the other half of information as it was on a relatively exclusive path.

2) Well, that's definitely a problem with being deliberately, overtly vague. It is never specified - even after they go scuba diving it is never clearly stated that was what Astrid was talking about.

It is addressed though...

"Astrid, let's... just forget about any further business. I'd like to hear your request."
"Oh, that? It's a tiny wish, and I'm sure you'll agree to it."
"Let's see...."
[Scene transitions to them scuba diving...]
"It's so amazing to be down here again!"
"I know you can't talk Mom, but I want you to know how much I appreciate this..."

Also, it's unclear why she needs Yvette's permission.

Not really... Here is Astrid's first appearance in case you forgot (where she meets Seth):

Astrid: "Our unfortunate and rare condition we share. You're stage 3. 99.2% mortality rate within five years."
Astrid: "Very serious, and I'm glad you're doing better now."
Astrid: "But I'm stage 5."
Seth: "Stage 5?! Holy shit, how are you even alive?"

And then later there is another scene where Astrid speaks to her sister, Veronica, over video and she struggles to get out of her chair. When Veronica finally appears on the screen, the first thing she does is chide Astrid for standing.

I have no problem if you disagree with my assessment, but hate? Hate? Really?
I'm not sure why anyone should experience hate or disgust at what I wrote.
Even if I really did come here and just (figuratively) shit all over the story, artwork, game, etc... would that be reason to upset/angry enough to hate it?
Maybe if you were the author and felt personally attacked, or like the game was your baby and needed to be protected/defended.
Anyway, you might want to do some soul-searching about why you reacted so strongly to my criticism of one aspect of the writing style of this game.

You're blowing things way out of proportion. I haven't been in some sort of uncontrollable rage ever since your comment like you're trying to insinuate. All I did was leave a one line comment about how I hated everything you said - not a big deal, or so I thought.

 

[Rufio]

Again, you're criticizing amazing writing for exactly what makes it so amazing. It's absurd.

In case you forgot what you said, you were going on about how the writer "doesn't have a fucking clue what the mystery is" and is "going to botch it at the end" because of some bizarre rule you made up after watching a few JJ Abrams films. Everything you say is just so nonsensical that it's a struggle to even figure out an appropriate response.



Actually, they were terrible examples and you're the only one here that's confused.



Yes, because the author isn't straight up telling you.. she's giving you 2+2 and letting you figure it out yourself.

When you read this scene for the first time you're only given half the information, and later on, you'll be given the other half which will allow you to reach the conclusion yourself.

This was a very simple thing to connect if you had seen the other scene, but as I edited it later, I pointed out that you might not have seen the other scene that gave the other half of information as it was on a relatively exclusive path.



It is addressed though...

"Astrid, let's... just forget about any further business. I'd like to hear your request."
"Oh, that? It's a tiny wish, and I'm sure you'll agree to it."
"Let's see...."
[Scene transitions to them scuba diving...]
"It's so amazing to be down here again!"
"I know you can't talk Mom, but I want you to know how much I appreciate this..."



Not really... Here is Astrid's first appearance in case you forgot (where she meets Seth):

Astrid: "Our unfortunate and rare condition we share. You're stage 3. 99.2% mortality rate within five years."
Astrid: "Very serious, and I'm glad you're doing better now."
Astrid: "But I'm stage 5."
Seth: "Stage 5?! Holy shit, how are you even alive?"

And then later there is another scene where Astrid speaks to her sister, Veronica, over video and she struggles to get out of her chair. When Veronica finally appears on the screen, the first thing she does is chide Astrid for standing.



You're blowing things way out of proportion. I haven't been in some sort of uncontrollable rage ever since your comment like you're trying to insinuate. All I did was leave a one line comment about how I hated everything you said - not a big deal, or so I thought.

"I hate everything you wrote", "You're shitting on this game" - Reasonable
"You're being rude" - Blowing something way out of proportion

Hahaha i love this thread

Just FYI the trope is called "Mystery Box" and it was invented by JJ Abrams and specifically used in L7Bears example, "Lost".

 

[Maviarab]

Again, you're criticizing amazing writing for exactly what makes it so amazing. It's absurd.

In case you forgot what you said, you were going on about how the writer "doesn't have a fucking clue what the mystery is" and is "going to botch it at the end" because of some bizarre rule you made up after watching a few JJ Abrams films. Everything you say is just so nonsensical that it's a struggle to even figure out an appropriate response.



Actually, they were terrible examples and you're the only one here that's confused.



Yes, because the author isn't straight up telling you.. she's giving you 2+2 and letting you figure it out yourself.

When you read this scene for the first time you're only given half the information, and later on, you'll be given the other half which will allow you to reach the conclusion yourself.

This was a very simple thing to connect if you had seen the other scene, but as I edited it later, I pointed out that you might not have seen the other scene that gave the other half of information as it was on a relatively exclusive path.



It is addressed though...

"Astrid, let's... just forget about any further business. I'd like to hear your request."
"Oh, that? It's a tiny wish, and I'm sure you'll agree to it."
"Let's see...."
[Scene transitions to them scuba diving...]
"It's so amazing to be down here again!"
"I know you can't talk Mom, but I want you to know how much I appreciate this..."



Not really... Here is Astrid's first appearance in case you forgot (where she meets Seth):

Astrid: "Our unfortunate and rare condition we share. You're stage 3. 99.2% mortality rate within five years."
Astrid: "Very serious, and I'm glad you're doing better now."
Astrid: "But I'm stage 5."
Seth: "Stage 5?! Holy shit, how are you even alive?"

And then later there is another scene where Astrid speaks to her sister, Veronica, over video and she struggles to get out of her chair. When Veronica finally appears on the screen, the first thing she does is chide Astrid for standing.



You're blowing things way out of proportion. I haven't been in some sort of uncontrollable rage ever since your comment like you're trying to insinuate. All I did was leave a one line comment about how I hated everything you said - not a big deal, or so I thought.

After his second essay of wittering...when all one needed to say was 'I don't really like Tess' style of writing but great story all the same'.

Then we could have maybe had a discussion over why he doesn't appreciae that style. Yet he wonders why he gets flamed when he let's his fingers loose on his keyboard?

Can't make it up can you....

 

[L7Bear]

L7Bear Please put the information under a spoiler. We should respect those players who consciously skip the test version and wait for the final. Thanks.

Done. Apologies to anyone adversely affected.

 

[kinkyshin]

"You're being rude" - Blowing something way out of proportion

You're intentionally being misleading here. Why? I specifically quoted what he was blowing out of proportion and it wasn't even what you said.

I've also already explained what I meant when I said it, but I'll try again with an example. If I said I hate a Taylor Swift song would you assume that I simply dislike the song, or would you tell me that a song shouldn't upset me to such an extent since I have not personally been attacked and that I should do some soul-searching to figure out why I have such a strong emotional response? Because if it was the latter, I would say you're blowing things out of proportion.

Just FYI the trope is called "Mystery Box" and it was invented by JJ Abrams and specifically used in L7Bears example, "Lost".

Okay, I've never heard of this "Mystery Box" until now but from what I can tell the main problem with this it is that an author will begin a bunch of plots without knowing exactly how yet how they actually will deliver on them, and then later does a piss poor job closing them out or just ignores them completely. Is that right?

I really don't think the problems associated with this will happen with Karlsson's Gambit for a few reasons. Unlike a movie or a TV show, a VN can have many routes and ends, so it's already a problem that's at least easier to solve. And so far, a lot of these 'questions' that we've been given at the start have already been given answers at this point. And lastly, her writing has been so on point that I'm assuming almost everything has already been planned out, which I believe would mean that Karlsson's Gambit isn't actually an example of this "Mystery Box" anyways.

 

[Rufio]

After his second essay of wittering...when all one needed to say was 'I don't really like Tess' style of writing but great story all the same'.

Then we could have maybe had a discussion over why he doesn't appreciae that style. Yet he wonders why he gets flamed when he let's his fingers loose on his keyboard?

Can't make it up can you....

You know his first message was literally the fact he likes tess's game and he didnt appreciate that trope. There is a reason he wrote a second essay and that was... drumrolll.... the responses he got.
Again, he is "letting his fingers loose", you guys are having a "conversation" the hypocrisy is just *chefs kiss*

 

[L7Bear]

After his second essay of wittering...when all one needed to say was 'I don't really like Tess' style of writing but great story all the same'.

Then we could have maybe had a discussion over why he doesn't appreciae that style. Yet he wonders why he gets flamed when he let's his fingers loose on his keyboard?

Can't make it up can you....

Interesting. I had never encountered the word "wittering" before. I doubt I'll use it, but thank you for introducing it to me.

The problem is, I don't dislike Tess' style of writing.

I don't like this one aspect.
I don't like the

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(thanks Rufio for identifying the proper term for it) which appears frequently in this game.

I didn't even express any wonderment about why I got flamed for criticism in this thread/community.

 

[Rufio]

You're intentionally being misleading here. Why? I specifically quoted what he was blowing out of proportion and it wasn't even what you said.

I've also already explained what I meant when I said it, but I'll try again with an example. If I said I hate a Taylor Swift song would you assume that I simply dislike the song, or would you tell me that a song shouldn't upset me to such an extent since I have not personally been attacked and that I should do some soul-searching to figure out why I have such a strong emotional response? Because if it was the latter, I would say you're blowing things out of proportion.



Okay, I've never heard of this "Mystery Box" until now but from what I can tell the main problem with this it is that an author will begin a bunch of plots without knowing exactly how yet how they actually will deliver on them, and then later does a piss poor job closing them out or just ignores them completely. Is that right?

I really don't think the problems associated with this will happen with Karlsson's Gambit for a few reasons. Unlike a movie or a TV show, a VN can have many routes and ends, so it's already a problem that's at least easier to solve. And so far, a lot of these 'questions' that we've been given at the start have already been given answers at this point. And lastly, her writing has been so on point that I'm assuming almost everything has already been planned out, which I believe would mean that Karlsson's Gambit isn't actually an example of this "Mystery Box" anyways.

No if you said you "dislike" a taylor swift song, i would assume you disliked it, if you said you hate everything she has sang, i would say it's a strong and personal response. However, if you said you disliked a tailor swift song, and someone said You're shitting on her music, that would probably be blowing it out of proportion XD

 

[Maviarab]

And lastly, her writing has been so on point that I'm assuming almost everything has already been planned out,

Correct. The story was written in full years ago, as was TQA and Tess' next VN after KG (edits aside to convert to a VN).

I'm guessing L7 has never watched Poirot...an undoubtedly bigger and internationally financially succesful show where oh no, they did not show the murder at the beginning...would blow his poor mind (as most shows/films like that never show either because the mystery is part of the fun).

Gonna guess Nolan or the Coen Brothers completely rage him...all amateur crap writers too. /s

You're a very patient man kinky