Not only that, Gambit Queen says to Grym "In your next board meeting".
Olivia isn't a member of the board yet. Even less so before Elena's willingness to resign for her sake.
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Olivia isn't a member of the board yet. Even less so before Elena's willingness to resign for her sake.
- Oct 18, 2019
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kinkyshin
About Grym Gudinna = Olivia., sorry, but no. It can't be Olivia, and it's probably Alessandra.
First of all, Olivia is pretty pure and chaste from the start. And then, once she's under our control, we make her what we want her to be. There is no evil Olivia, we make her that way (or, we prefer to make her good).... All the events surrounding Olivia's appearance and her first steps are also put under our control, we actively build her personality to our tastes... And the person Callista is talking to in the Temple is definitely an established person, one of the Karlssons who has fallen under Alexander's bad influence but is still capable of change..
One can argue about the degree of possible change, since Tess didn't give a detailed description of how wide the range of her “flexibility rating” she set for key characters...But in my opinion, Grym Gudinna is still Alessandra and no one else...And Agent Olivia has already been trained and sent off on her mission, so Callista hasn't yet fallen into her marasmus while simultaneously training her daughter to save the family and come to victory in Gambit (preferably with Kane) while pretending not to recognize her daughter's voice and talking to her in the Temple where she's supposedly Grym Gudinna. I'm sorry, but it's too illogical and dragged out...(imo)
In addition, we have been shown evidence that Olivia's childhood was spent away from the darkness and evil of Alexander, first she was raised in a remote mountain Temple and there (apparently) learned martial arts, and then she continued to be raised by Callista, who Tess shows as a positive character with a strict moral compass...Then we see Olivia's youth, their meeting with Kane...So on and so on.
I can believe that it was Olivia at Alexander's deathbed (and Olivia's agent theory is still valid), I can even believe that Callista sometimes let Alexander see young Liv, but we know for a fact that there was no evil in Olivia's soul at the moment GD01 begins and we get to control her. Yes, the knowledge she had, the amazing acting talent she had and still has, but not the evil...So she “has no need to change for the better” as Callista to Grym Gudinna says, but Alessandra/Grym Gudinna could definitely use such a change.
Olivia is almost entirely a character under our control (and sort of a second MC) with all the consequences that entails. But I was interested to read your thoughts on this, thanks.
About Grym Gudinna = Olivia., sorry, but no. It can't be Olivia, and it's probably Alessandra.
First of all, Olivia is pretty pure and chaste from the start. And then, once she's under our control, we make her what we want her to be. There is no evil Olivia, we make her that way (or, we prefer to make her good).... All the events surrounding Olivia's appearance and her first steps are also put under our control, we actively build her personality to our tastes... And the person Callista is talking to in the Temple is definitely an established person, one of the Karlssons who has fallen under Alexander's bad influence but is still capable of change..
One can argue about the degree of possible change, since Tess didn't give a detailed description of how wide the range of her “flexibility rating” she set for key characters...But in my opinion, Grym Gudinna is still Alessandra and no one else...And Agent Olivia has already been trained and sent off on her mission, so Callista hasn't yet fallen into her marasmus while simultaneously training her daughter to save the family and come to victory in Gambit (preferably with Kane) while pretending not to recognize her daughter's voice and talking to her in the Temple where she's supposedly Grym Gudinna. I'm sorry, but it's too illogical and dragged out...(imo)
In addition, we have been shown evidence that Olivia's childhood was spent away from the darkness and evil of Alexander, first she was raised in a remote mountain Temple and there (apparently) learned martial arts, and then she continued to be raised by Callista, who Tess shows as a positive character with a strict moral compass...Then we see Olivia's youth, their meeting with Kane...So on and so on.
I can believe that it was Olivia at Alexander's deathbed (and Olivia's agent theory is still valid), I can even believe that Callista sometimes let Alexander see young Liv, but we know for a fact that there was no evil in Olivia's soul at the moment GD01 begins and we get to control her. Yes, the knowledge she had, the amazing acting talent she had and still has, but not the evil...So she “has no need to change for the better” as Callista to Grym Gudinna says, but Alessandra/Grym Gudinna could definitely use such a change.
Olivia is almost entirely a character under our control (and sort of a second MC) with all the consequences that entails. But I was interested to read your thoughts on this, thanks.
Actually, Olivia being the daughter at the beginning isn't far-fetched at all and I thought mostly everyone agreed on that part?
It's my theory about Olivia being Grym Gudinna that's definitely uhh.. out there to say the least.
Well, even the Gambit Queen makes mistakes. It's not unthinkable for a character to have an occasional slip of the tongue.
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- Oct 18, 2019
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I just got a call from the Nobel Prize committee asking if they could nominate you for a prize in the “math” category? I hope you don't take offense, Mav, but I told them: yes, this guy is in!
- Dec 17, 2021
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While I am far from an expert on the KG mysteries, I have been through this story enough to form my own opinions so, I guess, I'll give in to the temptation to weigh in on this "Who is the Grym Gudinna debate". The last person I would guess would be Olivia. I will be floored by the shock and awe if it's her. Evidently, there has been some consensus that it's likely Alessandra. At the risk of being shouted down, I just don't see it. I can't think of a single thing that would bring me to that conclusion up to this point in the story. Now, to really stick my neck on the chopping block, I have always been quite certain that the Grym Gudinna is Veronica. I won't present a wall of text argument to support my belief since, by page 756, one would assume all possible arguments have been presented ad infinitum. So, my vote; No way in hell it's Olivia, I'll be shocked and amazed if it's Alessandra and, to me, it's obviously Veronica.
*motseer crouches down in his foxhole and prepares to endure the hail of withering fire.*
*motseer crouches down in his foxhole and prepares to endure the hail of withering fire.*
- Jul 12, 2020
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Probem here is that we already know V is Red Tips....that's pretty much confirmed in dialogue without it actually be stated.
____________
On this debate, I'm still leaning more now towards Kiyomi.
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2 Masked ninja's....Red Tips and White Tips....both meet Callista (Gambit Queen)....Well, let me just further reveal my ignorance... Who the hell is red tips...
Conversation with 'Red Tips'...Gambit Queen calls her out on lying/knowing about Cole at their previous meeting (thus really, definitively confirming it's Veronica).
So the real question is (in terms of who it is): Who would be working with Callista to help her...and/or...do they know its Callista?
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Obviously, everyone shares the white tips mask because it's ultimately meant for Kane, they are just keeping it warm for him.
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So... These people are referred to in dialogue as "Red Tips" and "White Tips"?
Why Kiyomi?
The person has be a daughter of Alexander, and he only has 6 daughters at least according to Astrid.
No, it's just what some of us have called them to easily distinguish.
Especially since there was a time when we couldn't confirm that Red Tips was Veronica.
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I forgot about that line...you're right, my bad.
I have to admit, Olivia does fit (and we shall assume she knows she is talking to Callista). She fits more than Alessa because for me, despite all the tlak here over the years about her, I really just don't see the connection with her at all, why she would Help Callista (if she knows it's her).
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Thanks, that's what I thought... Now, I'm really not trying to be overly argumentative but, I assume the purpose of the mask is to conceal the person's identity not to glorify themselves as "Red Tip" sister and "White Tip" sister. If I were playing this game, I would never wear the same mask twice when meeting those I'm trying to hide from. Just a thought...
I'll likely get to be wrong but, that doesn't particularly bother me so, I'll stick with Veronica as the Grym Gudinna and white tips and red tips is meaningless.
- Oct 18, 2019
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As for whether V knows at the moment she's talking to the Gambit Queen (when GQ is standing on the boat) that she's talking to Callista? I'm inclined to think she does... Just as Callista knows full well that V is hiding behind the mask (red tips). I can't provide any direct evidence of this knowledge, only my intuition. Veronica knows almost everything that is going on, and she is not even surprised by the coming Revolution, of which she is also well aware of the preparations for.
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I think it is more conceal identity to anyone who may be watching or see them (or just to fuck with us lol).
Callista knows exactly how they are, so they are not for her benefit.
So if you're going V, would V give Kane the bracelt...knowing it was going to be examined at some point by the DeKocks....especially given they are already on slightly shaky ground with V? Not saying wrong...we just have no clue....but tie in with whoever you think 'white tips' is....doing what they have been doing.
Or definitely going with, they are both Veronica (as explained, Red tips has been confirmed as her).
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Hahaha... All of which are reasons (among others) that I have always assumed Veronica is the Grym Gudinna...
I agree wholeheartedly with this. I can't make myself even consider Alessandra as the one... The sister who was so brilliant she even outsmarted Alexander? Haha Gimme a break...
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The problem is that Grym Gudinna described personality is not at all like V, although, like Mav, I too am lost in speculation as to why Alessandra (if the GG is her) would help Callista at all..
.But Olivia doesn't fit the role of GG for many reasons..I wonder who the GG really is then..The second ninja (red) (the GQ on the boat) is much less problematic in this sense and in the conversation almost immediately guesses Veronica...Such an old mystery, and we are still battling over it for years and no one has complete clarity in this matter, heh.
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I don't know, Mav. It's interesting (to a point) to speculate. I will say this, as I read the story each time through, I have a suspicion that the one who leaves Kane the bracelet is Delilah. I will reiterate that I think it's a mistake to assign identity by mask. If I were writing this story that would be the first thing I would use to throw the reader off the trail. I will agree that the person wearing the red tip mask in that particular conversation was Veronica. I don't agree that it precludes the possibility of her being the Gudinna...
Lol, that was literally what I listed as the 'most important evidence of all...' in my theory.The problem is that Grym Gudinna described personality is not at all like V, although, like Mav, I too am lost in speculation as to why Alessandra (if the GG is her) would help Callista at all..
And as for the 'Good Olivia is a blank slate!' Alexander thought so too, as he dies he says to her "... So brilliant, but I worried as I taught you that you were not willing to do what was neccessary to control your fate. But only now as I look into your eyes.... *cough* ...truly only right now do I actually see you as I die..." And Olivia on the good route literally says (about Kane) "I might have to enslave him." about Kane.
Which is why I said she is a behemoth.
But yea, there are holes in the theory for sure.
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For me, the biggest "hole" in that theory is that, even if Alexander spoke to Olivia on his death bed (which there is zero evidence for), he definitely did not spend time teaching her shit - let alone looking into her eyes to "evaluate" her as she developed - at least, as far as we are aware.
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