VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[kinkyshin]

Probem here is that we already know V is Red Tips....that's pretty much confirmed in dialogue without it actually be stated.

____________
On this debate, I'm still leaning more now towards Kiyomi.

Why Kiyomi?
The person has be a daughter of Alexander, and he only has 6 daughters at least according to Astrid.

So... These people are referred to in dialogue as "Red Tips" and "White Tips"?

No, it's just what some of us have called them to easily distinguish.
Especially since there was a time when we couldn't confirm that Red Tips was Veronica.

 

[Maviarab]

Why Kiyomi?
The person has be a daughter of Alexander, and he only has 6 daughters at least according to Astrid.

Gambit Queen: "You must not let her sabotage the Gambit. If it is not deemed fair and feels tainted, it could destroy everything."

?????: "But she knows now... how can she not try to help her own child?"

Gambit Queen: "I really do understand the temptation. But it's the way your father set it up. I think it's possible Elena gets what she wants without helping as is."

I forgot about that line...you're right, my bad.

I have to admit, Olivia does fit (and we shall assume she knows she is talking to Callista). She fits more than Alessa because for me, despite all the tlak here over the years about her, I really just don't see the connection with her at all, why she would Help Callista (if she knows it's her).

 

[motseer]

No, it's just what some of us have called them to easily distinguish.
Especially since there was a time when we couldn't confirm that Red Tips was Veronica.

Thanks, that's what I thought... Now, I'm really not trying to be overly argumentative but, I assume the purpose of the mask is to conceal the person's identity not to glorify themselves as "Red Tip" sister and "White Tip" sister. If I were playing this game, I would never wear the same mask twice when meeting those I'm trying to hide from. Just a thought...

I'll likely get to be wrong but, that doesn't particularly bother me so, I'll stick with Veronica as the Grym Gudinna and white tips and red tips is meaningless.

 

[Stan5851]

As for whether V knows at the moment she's talking to the Gambit Queen (when GQ is standing on the boat) that she's talking to Callista? I'm inclined to think she does... Just as Callista knows full well that V is hiding behind the mask (red tips). I can't provide any direct evidence of this knowledge, only my intuition. Veronica knows almost everything that is going on, and she is not even surprised by the coming Revolution, of which she is also well aware of the preparations for.

 

[Maviarab]

If I were playing this game, I would never wear the same mask twice when meeting those I'm trying to hide from.

I think it is more conceal identity to anyone who may be watching or see them (or just to fuck with us lol).

Callista knows exactly how they are, so they are not for her benefit.

So if you're going V, would V give Kane the bracelt...knowing it was going to be examined at some point by the DeKocks....especially given they are already on slightly shaky ground with V? Not saying wrong...we just have no clue....but tie in with whoever you think 'white tips' is....doing what they have been doing.

Or definitely going with, they are both Veronica (as explained, Red tips has been confirmed as her).

 

[motseer]

As for whether V knows at the moment she's talking to the Gambit Queen (when GQ is standing on the boat) that she's talking to Callista? I'm inclined to think she does... Just as Callista knows full well that V is hiding behind the mask (red tips). I can't provide any direct evidence of this knowledge, only my intuition. Veronica knows almost everything that is going on, and she is not even surprised by the coming Revolution, of which she is also well aware of the preparations for.

Hahaha... All of which are reasons (among others) that I have always assumed Veronica is the Grym Gudinna...

I forgot about that line...you're right, my bad.

...fits more than Alessa because for me, despite all the tlak here over the years about her, I really just don't see the connection with her at all, why she would Help Callista (if she knows it's her).

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I can't make myself even consider Alessandra as the one... The sister who was so brilliant she even outsmarted Alexander? Haha Gimme a break...

 

[Stan5851]

Hahaha... All of which are reasons (among others) that I have always assumed Veronica is the Grym Gudinna...

The problem is that Grym Gudinna described personality is not at all like V, although, like Mav, I too am lost in speculation as to why Alessandra (if the GG is her) would help Callista at all.. .But Olivia doesn't fit the role of GG for many reasons..I wonder who the GG really is then..The second ninja (red) (the GQ on the boat) is much less problematic in this sense and in the conversation almost immediately guesses Veronica...Such an old mystery, and we are still battling over it for years and no one has complete clarity in this matter, heh.

 

[motseer]

I think it is more conceal identity to anyone who may be watching or see them (or just to fuck with us lol).

Callista knows exactly how they are, so they are not for her benefit.

So if you're going V, would V give Kane the bracelt...knowing it was going to be examined at some point by the DeKocks....especially given they are already on slightly shaky ground with V? Not saying wrong...we just have no clue....but tie in with whoever you think 'white tips' is....doing what they have been doing.

Or definitely going with, they are both Veronica (as explained, Red tips has been confirmed as her).

I don't know, Mav. It's interesting (to a point) to speculate. I will say this, as I read the story each time through, I have a suspicion that the one who leaves Kane the bracelet is Delilah. I will reiterate that I think it's a mistake to assign identity by mask. If I were writing this story that would be the first thing I would use to throw the reader off the trail. I will agree that the person wearing the red tip mask in that particular conversation was Veronica. I don't agree that it precludes the possibility of her being the Gudinna...

 

[kinkyshin]

The problem is that Grym Gudinna described personality is not at all like V, although, like Mav, I too am lost in speculation as to why Alessandra (if the GG is her) would help Callista at all.. .But Olivia doesn't fit the role of GG for many reasons..I wonder who the GG really is then..The second ninja (red) (the GQ on the boat) is much less problematic in this sense and in the conversation almost immediately guesses Veronica...Such an old mystery, and we are still battling over it for years and no one has complete clarity in this matter, heh.

Lol, that was literally what I listed as the 'most important evidence of all...' in my theory.

And as for the 'Good Olivia is a blank slate!' Alexander thought so too, as he dies he says to her "... So brilliant, but I worried as I taught you that you were not willing to do what was neccessary to control your fate. But only now as I look into your eyes.... *cough* ...truly only right now do I actually see you as I die..." And Olivia on the good route literally says (about Kane) "I might have to enslave him." about Kane.

Which is why I said she is a behemoth.

But yea, there are holes in the theory for sure.

 

[motseer]

Lol, that was literally what I listed as the 'most important evidence of all...' in my theory.

And as for the 'Good Olivia is a blank slate!' Alexander thought so too, as he dies he says to her "... So brilliant, but I worried as I taught you that you were not willing to do what was neccessary to control your fate. But only now as I look into your eyes.... *cough* ...truly only right now do I actually see you as I die..." And Olivia on the good route literally says (about Kane) "I might have to enslave him." about Kane.

Which is why I said she is a behemoth.

But yea, there are holes in the theory for sure.

For me, the biggest "hole" in that theory is that, even if Alexander spoke to Olivia on his death bed (which there is zero evidence for), he definitely did not spend time teaching her shit - let alone looking into her eyes to "evaluate" her as she developed - at least, as far as we are aware.

 

[Choooogatta]

In regards to the burnout/consumer harassment developing I think the consumer end problems are a catalyst, but not the real problem.

I don't think Tess can get the Ballroom scene out of her mind onto the screen to her own satisfaction, and that's a real roadblock she's not admitting to the public.

 

[Stan5851]

I don't think Tess can get the Ballroom scene out of her mind onto the screen to her own satisfaction, and that's a real roadblock she's not admitting to the public.

I don't think Tess with her skills wouldn't be up to the task. Another thing is that in the dev diary she mentioned that in a big dinner scene there can be (if I'm not confused) a lot of beautiful clothes and more than 10 characters in a frame/scene, which can be problematic even for 4090 RTX. But problematic doesn't mean unsolvable..

 

[kinkyshin]

For me, the biggest "hole" in that theory is that, even if Alexander spoke to Olivia on his death bed (which there in zero evidence for), he definitely did not spend time teaching her shit - let alone looking into her eyes to "evaluate" her as she developed - at least, as far as we are aware.

Err, that's not a hole in the theory though. As far as I'm concerned, Olivia 100% has spent time with Alexander Karlsson near the end of his life. I will be utterly shocked if this is not the case.

[1] Alessandra tells Kane on SS Path "Yes. I'm probably the only daughter... well used to be... the only daughter that kind of got along with my father."

[2] Olivia starts spending time away from Kane, and when she returns to him, she takes him to a place Alexander Karlsson built, and then starts defending him in front of Kane lol

[3] Alexander Karlsson has one last request to Veronica to visit someone, and she straight up lists all the people that would refuse to see him. Surely this could only be Olivia?

Now that I think about this though.... it is interesting that Alessandra knows that Olivia had been spending time with Alexander... This makes Alessandra meeting Olivia in the early episodes and introducing her to the Karlsson Group very... odd...

 

[PickerLewd]

I read Dover's message last night before going to bed and thought I would find this thread on fire today.

Maybe some mod has deleted all the evidence, but it's very quiet .

I don't think Tess with her skills wouldn't be up to the task. Another thing is that in the dev diary she mentioned that in a big dinner scene there can be (if I'm not confused) a lot of beautiful clothes and more than 10 characters in a frame/scene, which can be problematic even for 4090 RTX.

The RTX 5090 will be available in two weeks for $1999 .

 

[Maviarab]

This makes Alessandra meeting Olivia in the early episodes and introducing her to the Karlsson Group very... odd...

Because she a snake.

Maybe some mod has deleted all the evidence, but it's very quiet .

No deletions. Think it's more really not sure what to make of it (or want to make things worse given we're being watched)....even less so with some recent posts in Discord.

 

[motseer]

Err, that's not a hole in the theory though. As far as I'm concerned, Olivia 100% has spent time with Alexander Karlsson near the end of his life. I will be utterly shocked if this is not the case.

[1] Alessandra tells Kane on SS Path "Yes. I'm probably the only daughter... well used to be... the only daughter that kind of got along with my father."

[2] Olivia starts spending time away from Kane, and when she returns to him, she takes him to a place Alexander Karlsson built, and then starts defending him in front of Kane lol

[3] Alexander Karlsson has one last request to Veronica to visit someone, and she straight up lists all the people that would refuse to see him. Surely this could only be Olivia?

Now that I think about this though.... it is interesting that Alessandra knows that Olivia had been spending time with Alexander... This makes Alessandra meeting Olivia in the early episodes and introducing her to the Karlsson Group very... odd...

We will just have to have different opinions for now. I think you are correct about Olivia meeting with Alexander toward the end of his life. For me, that doesn't infer time spent grooming, teaching and evaluating her. The fact that she might have made an effort to get along with him as his life was coming to an end seems more in line with a plan of Callista's. I could see Callista condoning a well trained and disciplined Olivia to spend a limited amount of time with her father in an effort to gain as much insight, information and understanding of the Karlsson Group as possible. If Alessandra got along with Alexander and learned that Olivia seemed to get along with him as well, it might be more likely for her to be the one to take Olivia under wing.

 

[jadepaladin]

I read Dover's message last night before going to bed and thought I would find this thread on fire today.

Me too but I'm kind of glad it didn't pan out that way. Discussions about the masks have been way more interesting than any back and forth over Tess being upset.

 

[PickerLewd]

Now that I think about this though.... it is interesting that Alessandra knows that Olivia had been spending time with Alexander... This makes Alessandra meeting Olivia in the early episodes and introducing her to the Karlsson Group very... odd...

This meeting is like the meme of two people greeting each other with a kiss while holding a knife hidden behind their backs.

Alessa is super fake and smiles at everything, but I don't believe her about how loving she is towards Olivia and she's just doing it to fulfil the Gambit. I see her thinking something like "I have to bring this poor rat into our mansion, disgusting" even if she knows that Olivia is another heiress, she didn't grow up with them and comes from a background where they had almost nowhere to sleep, just remember what Olivia's dirty flat looked like before the "abduction" (when she looks in the mirror).

For her part, Olivia plays along with Alessa's game, feigning false modesty, but she already knew where she was and what was in store for her, unlike Kane, who accepts the deal with no idea of the perverse games or the Gambit.

 

[motseer]

Best thing to do for Tess where the supposed "content controversy" is concerned...

Spoiler

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[Stan5851]

Err, that's not a hole in the theory though. As far as I'm concerned, Olivia 100% has spent time with Alexander Karlsson near the end of his life. I will be utterly shocked if this is not the case.

[3] Alexander Karlsson has one last request to Veronica to visit someone, and she straight up lists all the people that would refuse to see him. Surely this could only be Olivia?

And it was just the kind of killer argument (especially with the instant transition from the scene with the sick Alexander to the scene with Olivia) that could add at least 1 person to our "sect of Agent Olivia" witnesses, haha..At least now he's at least starting to consider it and not dismissing it out of hand.