VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Sharpshooter890]

Ep. 6 Kiyomi and Otto on top of the sub
K: ...but I'm a little disappointed in you.
O: Why?
K: No one else will likely notice it, but I did. You made a mistake.
O: I did?
K: Yes. It's not enough to hide one's appearance. A very keen eye might recognize even the subtle movements that are unique and specific to an individual.

Dude, you provided a quote (I assume it's a quote) that proves my point and came to the opposite conclusion... English is not my native language, but I know that 'you' can mean both an individual ('Bob, you made a mistake') and a group ('You guys made a mistake'). Regardless, she's just pointing out a mistake - 'It's not enough to hide one's appearance. A very keen eye might recognize even the subtle movements that are unique and specific to an individual.' As in I see who's behind the mask because of how that person moves (and I recognize those movements).

So yes, you (the person) are making stuff up.

 

[YuNobi1]

Dude, you provided a quote (I assume it's a quote) that proves my point and came to the opposite conclusion... English is not my native language, but I know that 'you' can mean both an individual ('Bob, you made a mistake') and a group ('You guys made a mistake'). Regardless, she's just pointing out a mistake - 'It's not enough to hide one's appearance. A very keen eye might recognize even the subtle movements that are unique and specific to an individual.' As in I see who's behind the mask because of how that person moves (and I recognize those movements).

So yes, you (the person) are making stuff up.

No, you are jumping to an other than direct meaning of Kiyomi's exact wording. The direct reading says Kiyomi is disappointed with Otto because Otto made a mistake. Anything else is an alternate meaning. In any textual interpretation, regardless of language or era, the direct meaning has the greatest weight, while alternate meanings are listed as possible, until extensive evidence is presented that overwhelmingly supports a specific alternate meaning over the direct one, the direct one is always the primary reading. A direct reading NEVER makes up stuff, because it is the exact verbiage that the author used.

 

[Sharpshooter890]

Uh, I want a facepalm emoji back.

 

[Stan5851]

Um, what? Sorry, but you're making stuff up. Kiyomi was talking about the servant in the red mask (who turned out to be Callista, I FUCKING TOLD YOU GUYS! ), not about Otto himself. The text doesn't leave room for interpretation, it's very clear whom she recognised. Kiyomi clearly is not a part of whatever DeKocks/Otto/RedMask are planning, but she didn't rat them either, which, depending on said goal, could make her a potential ally.

That Callista is the one hiding under the red mask (in DeKock's arrival scene) was obvious from the beginning, as soon as Kiyomi told Otto that he made a mistake and so on. It was too fat and delicious a hint to think otherwise, hehe.

And yes, Kiyomi is running her own game, unrelated to Otto and the revolutionary conspirators...and that game personally intrigues me more than much else... Kiyomi and her code of honour are unlikely to allow her to openly betray the Karlsson's, those she has sworn to serve, but that doesn't mean she has to give 100% where it goes against her morals and code.

For example, she completely refused to participate in an upcoming violent show, then secretly softened Seth's painful experience with Juliette..She reacts negatively to any injustice (for example, if Olivia orders her to treat Kane more gently than the others) or if KaneDom is too harsh in dialogue with her and approves of holding death duels between the show's contestants.

Overall, I think she's just following her code of honour, countering Karlsson sisters' sadistic tendencies at every opportunity, but not hurting any of them. And, in my opinion, it's pretty obvious that the only one she truly trusts is Veronica...Vi has skeletons in her wardrobe too, but Kiyomi trusts her unconditionally, because only she can change something (if we are talking about global projects of continental and planetary scale).

So I think Kiyomi will be with her till the end no matter what happens and will die for her if need be.

Uh, I want a facepalm emoji back.

Me too.

 

[Maviarab]

No, you are jumping to an other than direct meaning of Kiyomi's exact wording.

No, he isn't...because the 'you' is neither defined, italicized or quoted (which would specifically refer to the person she was talking to). So in this case, the 'you' is a general term for the entire group given the context.

That Callista is the one hiding under the red mask (in DeKock's arrival scene) was obvious from the beginning, as soon as Kiyomi told Otto that he made a mistake and so on. It was too fat and delicious a hint to think otherwise, hehe.

It does however beg the question, how the hell does she keep slipping in and out of the facility and more importantly get somewhere that Elena had to use a damn plane to get to. I guess we'll just leave that to callista plot powers and reasons

 

[YuNobi1]

No, he isn't...because the 'you' is neither defined, italicized or quoted (which would specifically refer to the person she was talking to). So in this case, the 'you' is a general term for the entire group given the context.

You quoted me saying "you" to Sharpshooter890, and I didn't italicize or quote it. I also just now did the same thing to you inbthe previous sentence. So when I said "you" to Sharpshooter890 in my last post, and to Maviarab in the previous sentence, was I referring to the group, per your logic, or was I referencing the individual? The answer: the individual, that was my intent, that is what I said and that is all it means. Who are you and Sharpshooter890 referring to when you say "You are making things up," me individually, or a group of me's, as again there aren't any italics or quotes.

 

[BurgRoyce]

Discussing even over semantics.

That's the magic of this game!!

 

[Stan5851]

It does however beg the question, how the hell does she keep slipping in and out of the facility and more importantly get somewhere that Elena had to use a damn plane to get to. I guess we'll just leave that to callista plot powers and reasons

If you mean how Callista can move freely between closed rooms (like Veronica's closed labs, including her secret place where she took Kane)... then I guess it's pretty simple... Kiyomi after her dialogue with Otto (DeKocks arrival scene) could have informed Veronica of her arrival at JoyFacility, at which point Veronica gave Callista free passage to wherever she needed to go. Vi could have simply given a direct order to her AI, and it opened all the doors in front of Callista. Anyway, there could be several possibilities here.

 

[Maviarab]

Discussing even over semantics.

That's the magic of this game!!

Well in this instance it has merit.

Yu has taken Kiyomi's words to Otto as being directly 'towards' Otto, meaning himself. Then he comes up with this fantastical theory that someone who looks identical to Otto is pretending to be him...or, despite the fact there is nothing to support his theory, ever shown, nor hinted at, anywhere, someone is using Mission Impossible level technology to disguise himself...

Where as least three us (two being non-native English speakers I'll add) understood perfectly the meaning of the sentence, it's grammatical context and that Kiyomi was in fact not referring directly to Otto himself when she said "you made a mistake"...

Never mind the fact, all high-level Karlsson people speak in riddles, never speak straight or plainly and always carefully measure their words. But no...Yu jumps straight into the fantastical and then more so, claims it as fact but more theories made up to support the first one.

 

[Stan5851]

As for Callista's movements around the island...If Callista has a yacht that she can use to get around, why shouldn't she have a light-engine aeroplane like Elena?

 

[Sharpshooter890]

If you mean how Callista can move freely between closed rooms (like Veronica's closed labs, including her secret place where she took Kane)... then I guess it's pretty simple... Kiyomi after her dialogue with Otto (DeKocks arrival scene) could have informed Veronica of her arrival at JoyFacility, at which point Veronica gave Callista free passage to wherever she needed to go. Vi could have simply given a direct order to her AI, and it opened all the doors in front of Callista. Anyway, there could be several possibilities here.

Huh? I swear, it's not my quote, the site must be broken or something. As for Callista wandering around JF, I think Nadia probably had something to do with it, she's allegedly the greatest hacker ever.

 

[Maviarab]

As for Callista's movements around the island...If Callista has a yacht that she can use to get around, why shouldn't she have a light-engine aeroplane like Elena?

Well...fair yes lol...however, given she is supposedly trying to keep a low profile, not draw attention to herself, and doesn't want people to know she alive...

Either of those would be a little difficult to go unnoticed by...but as I said, plot reasons and Callista powers...cuz she Callista hehe. Which I'm fine with, it's just something that's always struck me as funny. The ole girl sure does get herself about lol.

 

[Stan5851]

Huh? I swear, it's not my quote, the site must be broken or something. As for Callista wandering around JF, I think Nadia probably had something to do with it, she's allegedly the greatest hacker ever.

Yeah, looks like the site crashed, couldn't handle our heated discussion, haha... you're right, I was replying to this Maviarab post here

It does however beg the question, how the hell does she keep slipping in and out of the facility and more importantly get somewhere that Elena had to use a damn plane to get to. I guess we'll just leave that to callista plot powers and reasons

 

[Maviarab]

Yeah, looks like the site crashed, couldn't handle our heated discussion, haha... you're right, I was replying to this @Maviarab post here

We broke F95

 

[Sharpshooter890]

Where as least three us (two being non-native English speakers I'll add) understood perfectly the meaning of the sentence, it's grammatical context and that Kiyomi was in fact not referring directly to Otto himself when she said "you made a mistake"...

One last thing I'll add on this particular issue to put it to rest. Otto is probably the 'head of security' for DeKocks, so it's his responsibility to conceal Callista at the JF until the time is right (even if he didn't come up with an idea of the red mask himself). So Kiyomi pointing that 'you made a mistake' can be applicable to both Otto's and DeKocks (as a whole) failure to do just that. Maskirovka has failed.

 

[Maviarab]

Does anyone know the source of the song FarewellAlexander.mp3? It is one of the songs of the Alexander's temple scene (season 1), and it's amazingly beautiful. Who did it?

Apologies Sevy...just remembered you asked this.

I'm afraid I don't know the source no, so no help I'm afraid but didn't want you to think you had been forgotten or ignored. Hopefully someone around may, you could always try asking in the Discord for the VN though, there's no requirements to join.

One last thing I'll add on this particular issue to put it to rest. Otto is probably the 'head of security' for DeKocks, so it's his responsibility to conceal Callista at the JF until the time is right (even if he didn't come up with an idea of the red mask himself). So Kiyomi pointing that 'you made a mistake' can be applicable to both Otto's and DeKocks (as a whole) failure to do just that. Maskirovka has failed.

 

[Stan5851]

Huh? I swear, it's not my quote, the site must be broken or something. As for Callista wandering around JF, I think Nadia probably had something to do with it, she's allegedly the greatest hacker ever.

Frankly, I doubt the Karlssons control all the airspace on the island(s) where all the JF facilities are located, hehe.. By the way, we still don't know if any means of communication (like smartphones or satellite phones) have survived..So it may well be that this segment of technology has already been lost after the Great Collapse and only computer networks and artificial intelligences like N.O.A.H are left, controlling various technological processes and access to all JF facilities.

So if we consider your Nadia scenario, I'm more likely to believe that this hacker story could only work within the JF when Callista needed to get into Veronica's closed labs... But it might not have been Nadia, since as far as I understand it, N.O.A.H still hasn't been hacked, and she only managed to penetrate some segments of the less secure systems.

As for her genius as a hacker...well, personally, I wouldn't call someone who hacked the control system of one of the labs so crookedly that a poisonous gas leak nearly killed Nurse Maria a genius. I'd call her a talented self-taught hacker, but nothing more. Real professionals don't leave traces, and Veronica was able to easily figure out Nadia and all her penetrations into her systems, and then told her off like a child..

 

[Maviarab]

Frankly, I doubt the Karlssons control all the airspace on the island where all the JF facilities are located, hehe.. By the way, we still don't know if any means of communication (like smartphones or satellite phones) have survived..So it may well be that this segment of technology has already been lost after the Great Collapse and only computer networks and artificial intelligences like N.O.A.H are left, controlling various technological processes and access to all JF facilities.

Yeah..distinct lack of a lot of technology...given the technology Veronica has built...I mean we obviously still have wifi as how else did the remote vibrating dildo's work on the girls in the mine? So why no phones anymore?

I'd call her a talented self-taught hacker, but nothing more,

and then told her off like a child..

 

[YuNobi1]

someone is using Mission Impossible level technology to disguise himself...

And I'm supposed to be the one who's jumping to fantastical conclusions and making up stuff? I never said that.

How many KG people have seen Otto face-to-face before Ep. 6 and lived to tell about it? Kiyomi for sure, but perhaps another (per her statement). The rest of KG has only heard of him, but by the time anyone respond to his securitybreaches, he's already gone, that's why he's so successful, and why Elena's impressed to finally meet him. It's just like with Superman, maybe 3 people have actually been close enough to both his and Clark Kent's face to even have a hope of identifying them as the same person. As long as somebody has the general disguise to pass scrutiny from somebody who has neither met nor seen Otto, they will never know it's not him visually. However, visual disguise isn't enough, voice, behavior, knowledge, and as Kiyomi pointed out: movement (which is definitely recorded on Veronica's surveillance) can blow one's cover. We see Otto's infiltration suit on the Cole Rescue, which further supports the "no one at KG has seen his face" so improper movements that don't match those recordings would be a dead giveaway.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

And I'm supposed to be the one who's jumping to fantastical conclusions and making up stuff? I never said that.

How many KG people have seen Otto face-to-face before Ep. 6 and lived to tell about it? Kiyomi for sure, but perhaps another (per her statement). The rest of KG has only heard of him, but by the time anyone respond to his securitybreaches, he's already gone, that's why he's so successful, and why Elena's impressed to finally meet him. It's just like with Superman, maybe 3 people have actually been close enough to both his and Clark Kent's face to even have a hope of identifying them as the same person. As long as somebody has the general disguise to pass scrutiny from somebody who has neither met nor seen Otto, they will never know it's not him visually. However, visual disguise isn't enough, voice, behavior, knowledge, and as Kiyomi pointed out: movement (which is definitely recorded on Veronica's surveillance) can blow one's cover. We see Otto's infiltration suit on the Cole Rescue, which further supports the "no one at KG has seen his face" so improper movements that don't match those recordings would be a dead giveaway.

If according to you nobody's seen Otto face to face prior to episode 6 then why would Kiyomi point out mistakes he's made? Shouldnt matter what he does if nobody knows who he is.