VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[DoverDad]

I find perfectly reasonable them having an "insurance" with Seth. I mean, what do they know about you? To and Astrid, Kane seems a nice guy, but do you really would trust him blindly in their position?
Yeah, me neither.

In addition, that's an empty menace. Even if you play the fake revolution path, it's fairly obvious they aren't people capable to order the cold-blooded murder of an innocent.

Unless you badmouth, Yvette Daughters, then you're in for a rude awakening, like one staff member who Yvette overheard calling v an ice queen

 

[Hazardgaming]

I find perfectly reasonable them having an "insurance" with Seth. I mean, what do they know about you? To Yvette and Astrid, Kane seems a nice guy, but do you really would trust him blindly in their position?
Yeah, me neither.

In addition, that's an empty menace. Even if you play the fake revolution path, it's fairly obvious they aren't people capable to order the cold-blooded murder of an innocent.

And there are ways to do what Yvette attempted. But the way she did it only works if you haven’t fucked the person over once already, and all but guaranteed that they view you as the most evil individual to have ever existed.

Kane knows that the KG board was behind the assault on Seth and everything that resulted in Kane ending up in prison and at the Sadism Factory.

Olivia told Kane that the KG board most likely wanted him to punish the one responsible for what had taken place… which would be the KG board members. Yvette is a board member as far as Kane knows, who is now once more threatening Seth.

I can only assume that Yvette is either a double agent who’s trying to sabotage the rebellion while protecting her kids, or she’s so misinformed or out of the loop that she just doesn’t understand what she’s doing.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

And there are ways to do wwehat Yvette attempted. But the way she did it only works if you haven’t fucked the person over once already, and all but guaranteed that they views you as the most evil individual to have ever existed.

Kane knows that the KG board was behind the assault on Seth and everything that resulted in Kane ending up in prison and at the Sadism Factory.

Olivia told Kane that the KG board most likely wanted him to punish the one responsible for what had taken place… which would be the KG board members. Yvette is a board member, who is now once more threatening Seth.

I can only assume that Yvette is either a double agent who’s trying to sabotage the rebellion while protecting her kids, or she’s so misinformed or out of the loop that she just doesn’t understand what she’s doing.

"The board" isn't a monolith. Even if they agree that Kane needed to be lured into the program we don't know if Yvette disagreed with the method, agreed, or just wanted it done and didn't care and just voted however Veronica did(this is implied to happen a lot). Alessandra was the one who was personally involved with the operation with Elena acting as the face to bring him in.

And even though the Karlsson Group has never been kind, the context of their nearly doomed world precluded that, from what was stated it only turned as vicious as we know it today after Alexander and Calista had their falling out and a now crazed Alexander raised the next generation of crazed leaders.
Yvette and Calista may very well have acted as a balance to the likes of Alexander and Elena in the old days.

This isn't to say she is kind, just not cruel. At least by the standards of that world. Her threatening Seth is just a plain stupid poorly thought out move on her part. Probably to illustrate that even the reformers are willing to play dirty, but still stupid since Kane is the wild card in all this and she has no idea if he can get to a position to retaliate against her or how else this can blow in her face. Too many unknowns with Kane to deliberately provoke him with his family. Especially a Dom Path one.


"Not understanding what she's doing" is the best description.
But nothing will happen. "Retaliation" isn't really the name of the game and Kane is most likely to over look that. Especially on a revolution path.
And like it was said, it's probably more bark than bite anyway. She's not Juliette after all.

 

[Stan5851]

I find perfectly reasonable them having an "insurance" with Seth. I mean, what do they know about you? To Yvette and Astrid, Kane seems a nice guy, but do you really would trust him blindly in their position?
Yeah, me neither.

That's correct.

In addition, that's an empty menace. Even if you play the fake revolution path, it's fairly obvious they aren't people capable to order the cold-blooded murder of an innocent.

Astrid is a flawless idealist and yes, she would probably never order Seth's murder regardless of Dom Kane's behavior, but I wouldn't underestimate Yvette's resolve. Dover rightly pointed out that there's already been precedent with Yvette and here you can die for less.

Ofc, Dom Kane isn't some pathetic servant whose life isn't that important in the eyes of the Karlssons, he's the son of two of the Company's founders, but when it comes to things like regime change, Kane's kinship privileges may not be enough. So I'd be cautious about betraying Yvette if we're on a true revolution route.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

That's correct.

Astrid is a flawless idealist and yes, she would probably never order Seth's murder regardless of Dom Kane's behavior, but I wouldn't underestimate Yvette's resolve. Dover rightly pointed out that there's already been precedent with Yvette and here you can die for less.

Ofc, Dom Kane isn't some pathetic servant whose life isn't that important in the eyes of the Karlssons, he's the son of two of the Company's founders, but when it comes to things like regime change, Kane's kinship privileges may not be enough. So I'd be cautious about betraying Yvette if we're on a true revolution route.

Her position isn't strong. If she acts against Seth and Kane does well in the Gambit she's toast. Veronica will not act to favor the revolution over the Gambit, especially for a revolution that she questions the wiseness of pursuing and thus far has ignored. She'll throw them under the bus to keep Kane engaged with the program if he rats out her Mom.
Yvette would be isolated from any other power that could help her and complicit in revolution.

 

[Stan5851]

Veronica will not act to favor the revolution over the Gambit, especially for a revolution that she questions the wiseness of pursuing and thus far has ignored. She'll throw them under the bus to keep Kane engaged with the program if he rats out her Mom.Yvette would be isolated from any other power that could help her and complicit in revolution.

It's not a fact at all. If she has doubts about the feasibility of the revolution, it doesn't mean that Astrid and Yvette can't change her mind. Besides, as we know from the faction sheet, the revolution will have at least 2 different outcomes. And who's to say Veronica won't support the "good outcome" (without anarchy and loss of control over society)?

Also, don't forget that "World state B" itself (Veronica's "home" WS) is independent of the other world states (A, C and D) and will always coexist in parallel with them, no matter what happens. Based on this, we can be 100% sure that all scientific works and projects that Veronica and Astrid)has conceived will be realized anyway, regardless of revolutions and other upheavals. V has enough forces and means (considering that the entire "power block" (Deadly Vipers) and intelligence service are subordinated to her personally)) to ensure Kane's safety without throwing the revolutionaries "under the bus".

 

[Stan5851]

So my bet is that Veronica will not interfere in the possible revolutionary process by force and will distance herself from direct involvement in the coming faction war. She and her faction B will focus more on saving the earth and key science projects.

But I'm more interested in something else. How did our schemer Alessa manage to end up in revolutionary faction C? Because perverted hedonist Alessandra is as much a "revolutionary" as I am a ballerina (lol). Anyway, this is another topic I'd like to discuss here and hear your opinions on it. What is this, an attempt "to catch fish in troubled waters" or is this revolution not so fair?

Or has Alessa finally realized that she's been outplayed by Olivia and DKane and is willing to insert herself into the world's new order to guarantee her comfort and safety? Questions, questions.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Fucking with seth is fucking with Callista, I doubt Yvette would want to do that. Veronica definitely wouldn't want to do that.

 

[Stan5851]

Fucking with seth is fucking with Callista, I doubt Yvette would want to do that. Veronica definitely wouldn't want to do that.

Yeah..It's hard to argue with that. But in such a case, these words of Yvette's were uttered in the expectation that because of his ignorance that his mother was alive, as well as his ignorance of the existing relationship between Callista, Veronica and Yvette, our Kane would simply believe the threat and be afraid to even contemplate any betrayal of the revolutionaries.

 

[Alan Dalles]

So my bet is that Veronica will not interfere in the possible revolutionary process by force and will distance herself from direct involvement in the coming faction war. She and her faction B will focus more on saving the earth and key science projects.

But I'm more interested in something else. How did our schemer Alessa manage to end up in revolutionary faction C? Because perverted hedonist Alessandra is as much a "revolutionary" as I am a ballerina (lol). Anyway, this is another topic I'd like to discuss here and hear your opinions on it. What is this, an attempt "to catch fish in troubled waters" or is this revolution not so fair?

Or has Alessa finally realized that she's been outplayed by Olivia and DKane and is willing to insert herself into the world's new order to guarantee her comfort and safety? Questions, questions.

As I think, Alessandra's strategy - don't pull all eggs in one basket. She didn't get involved in Gambit and has a good relationship with all sisters (what preserved her hedonistic status quo - she isn't locked out in any faction). At the same time, she has "ulterior motives", one of which (in my opinion) - being an eminence grise of rebels (Kiyomi teach her of combat training) and using the revolution for palace coup, eliminating the Council (historic prototype - Paul Barras in French revolution).

 

[Loxxxthenasty]

So my bet is that Veronica will not interfere in the possible revolutionary process by force and will distance herself from direct involvement in the coming faction war. She and her faction B will focus more on saving the earth and key science projects.

But I'm more interested in something else. How did our schemer Alessa manage to end up in revolutionary faction C? Because perverted hedonist Alessandra is as much a "revolutionary" as I am a ballerina (lol). Anyway, this is another topic I'd like to discuss here and hear your opinions on it. What is this, an attempt "to catch fish in troubled waters" or is this revolution not so fair?

Or has Alessa finally realized that she's been outplayed by Olivia and DKane and is willing to insert herself into the world's new order to guarantee her comfort and safety? Questions, questions.

Muy muy interasante

 

[kinkyshin]

So my bet is that Veronica will not interfere in the possible revolutionary process by force and will distance herself from direct involvement in the coming faction war. She and her faction B will focus more on saving the earth and key science projects.

But I'm more interested in something else. How did our schemer Alessa manage to end up in revolutionary faction C? Because perverted hedonist Alessandra is as much a "revolutionary" as I am a ballerina (lol). Anyway, this is another topic I'd like to discuss here and hear your opinions on it. What is this, an attempt "to catch fish in troubled waters" or is this revolution not so fair?

Or has Alessa finally realized that she's been outplayed by Olivia and DKane and is willing to insert herself into the world's new order to guarantee her comfort and safety? Questions, questions.

Is Faction C supposed to be the faction AS the revolution is happening? Or, is it the faction that forms AFTER the revolution has happened?

Anyways, on the 'good' Faction C, Alessandra only appears once and it's on the SS route when Angelica can reform her. Angelica is just overpowered lol.

 

[kinkyshin]

I've said a few times now that I was super excited for the secret sub route (thinking it might become my favorite route) but it was extremely disappointing. A lot of what I'm going to say has been said in broken segments, but I thought I would compile it all here.

Problems with the SS route:

1) Going from k4->k5 is janky as fuck and doesn't make sense. All the dialogue from then on is as if you were always on the dom route. One example is that Scarlett can peg you while you're k4 and then your next meeting with her, (after getting promoted from k4->k5), she's gushing about how impressive and dominant you are as if it never happened.

2) SS route is bugged. Turning down Alessandra the first time does change some variables, but it mostly it changes a variable that isn't used. Meaning, Alessandra will be under the impression that you told her you would submit to her. So then she'll show up with Alyssa, all smiling about how you're her bitch already... and then you'll have to turn her down again where she demotes you to k5.

3) Alessandra says she won't tell anyone, and makes a point to say Olivia is included in that. She also tells you to be 'strong' for her. If you can't climb up, then you don't deserve her. Your next meeting with her, she tells you that she told Olivia, and demotes you to k7.

4) It all happens so fast. Alessandra expects you to immediately 100% fully commit to her despite the fact that... YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HER. There is no reason at all for Kane to place all his trust in her and go around calling her 'Goddess'. There is 0 connection, 0 trust. He has absolutely no idea what her goals even are or if they even align with his at all. It's stupid. Even on the submissive routes, you generally get to feel them out before you commit to them.

What I thought the SS route was going to be:

I thought the Secret Sub path was going to be people like your assistant (Desdemona) or a pod member figuring out that you have a submissive side and trying to exploit you for their own gain. It would be a very delicate thing to navigate and would lead to a pretty exciting story of trying to be something that you're not while keeping your dirty little secret hidden. And I also thought it would be a struggle for him to be a strong, dominant leader and that he would have to rely on strong, dominant women (like Olivia/Angelica/etc) to help him out with the things he's uncomfortable with but instead it came down to just immediately becoming Alessandra's bitch.

Last update & Faction Sheet:

Last update Angelica got brought into the fold which is nice. On the faction sheet, it says Angelica will be able to take control of Alessandra and bring her into 'the light'. Also there is a path where Kane is the 'leader' of Faction B with Angelica and Alessandra at his side. So I'm very much looking forward to that at least.

 

[Stan5851]

Is Faction C supposed to be the faction AS the revolution is happening? Or, is it the faction that forms AFTER the revolution has happened?

Anyways, on the 'good' Faction C, Alessandra only appears once and it's on the SS route when Angelica can reform her. Angelica is just overpowered lol.

Good question that I don't have a clear answer to yet. As we know, most factions will start playing an important role somewhere around ep9. My guess is that revo. faction C will be no exception and will start acting then as well.

However, Yvette's incomprehensible absence there could also speak to the fact that this is the state of faction C just AFTER the revolution is over, which could suggest that Yvette simply won't make it to the finale. (Also, she's not in any other faction either, not just C).

Let's take the Dom version of Faction C as an example.

Spoiler

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The first oddity I've already mentioned is Alessandra's presence on the list of possible leaders of this revolutionary faction. What is she doing here? Yes, I believe that at this point Alessa may be genuinely betting everything on Olivia winning so that she can then (or in the process) try to become the gray cardinal who will actually run things. Maybe her scheming and plans to eliminate the other sisters fit into that scenario?

However, based on Alessandra's behavior, I definitely can't be convinced that she's the kind of person, who is willing to willingly hand the victory in Gambit to Olivia and settle for a position as an advisor or something.

What does leadership in a particular faction mean? How important is it really? It's clear that when, say, Kane and Olivia win the Gambit, they both won't care about factions and all power will go to the two of them. And will there be a safe and comfortable place for Alessa after that victory?

Or is her possible bet on Olivia just an appearance and she's just waiting for the moment to try to kill her too, thus getting rid of yet another rival for the role of Dom Kane's wife.

If revolution (regardless of the outcome) implies some sort of justice in the new world order, why can Claudia only be in faction C only if Dominique or Olivia leader and high evil for all of them? It seemed to me that outright evil and Astrid's idealistic revolution were different things, and faction members (logically) should gravitate towards good rather than evil. However, as we can see, this is not entirely true.

I'll say this, neither faction A nor faction B raise such questions for me and everything looks quite logical and expected there, which can't be said about C.

 

[kinkyshin]

Okay I think I've got it mostly figured out...
If the Gambit succeeds, then I guess there is no revolution. (World State A)
If the Gambit fails, then the revolution probably always happens. (World State C)

We still don't know if the Factions are formed during the revolution or after the revolution takes place, but the differences are minor.

Spoiler: If factions are formed DURING

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Spoiler: If factions are formed AFTER

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Anyways, Faction C is people AGAINST the revolution, not for it. Which is why Yvette is never on the list.
But just because some people are against it doesn't mean they're outright evil. For example, a greyish (Somewhat good) Kane and greyish (Somewhat good) Olivia can still oppose the revolution without being outright evil. But if you want to be completely good, you may need to join Faction B and be for the revolution, not Faction C.

Also a takeaway... I'm wondering if Juliette always dies during the revolution no matter what happens. Seems like it.