VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Stan5851]

geebster

Im too lazy to find the quote but tess definitely has said she had an aversion to incest because I remember her talking about the power dynamics factor and how she doesnt have a problem with anybody else being into it.

Yes, that's right. And AFAIR, she wrote about it more than once. So Patreon, with its policy on incest, is secondary here, and her rejection of incest as such comes first...Here is one such post, which I didn't have to search long to find.

I understand this perspective, but certainly my having worked a volunteer job with real incest victims and seeing how it impacted their lives gives me a little bias I suppose. I certainly don't begrudge people fantasizing about incest as I believe almost everyone can separate fantasy from reality, and I can even play certain games at times without issues, but in real life if it happened, I'd probably find it distasteful. (and I am speaking primarily of "older" people versus younger, which is what I primarily dealt with and saw)

I would imagine rape victims might have a harder time enjoying a rape themed game too, but because I don't have that perspective, I wouldn't dare speak for them in believing I can empathize and understand their thinking. I can only operate under my own sense of what life means partially based on my own experiences. This type of thinking has served me really well so far, and I'm really happy to where it's got me to already in life. I really believe I could be doing my next game someday on this site with just living on passive income for a number of reasons.

Even with all that, I think the game will allow certain relationships, but they might not be defined a certain way given what has happened in their lives narratively.

P.S. Besides, since when did his policy of banning incest in games become a problem for devs, lol? Dozens of games sold on Patreon contain incest, and the only question is which method a particular dev chooses to circumvent this prohibition.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

P.S. Besides, since when did his policy of banning incest in games become a problem for devs, lol? Dozens of games sold on Patreon contain incest, and the only question is which method a particular dev chooses to circumvent this prohibition.

They exist under the radar. And Patreon has been cracking down harder and not excepting loopholes like they used to so that safe zone under the radar is shrinking.

 

[kinkyshin]

Im too lazy to find the quote but tess definitely has said she had an aversion to incest because I remember her talking about the power dynamics factor and how she doesnt have a problem with anybody else being into it.


Key word being mentoring. If I had to guess Im going to guess Claudia. Not a board member def tied to a few people and she is someone that Phoebe would mentor. Only other guess at the moment is katsumi but Im not sure if those two are even communicating.

Claudia seems unlikely. As far as we know she's not really close to any board member (though Dominique has recently been trying to dig her claws into her). And personally I think it would be odd to say 'just someone I'm mentoring' when it's your own stepdaughter.

I had considered Katsumi as well considering she is both close to Elena and Juliette and would likely be rooting for Olivia as well, but it seems unlikely that Phoebe would have any interest in her, and how would she have been mentoring her for years when she had been busy in the program and under Elena's guidance. She had only just become an executive when Kane arrived at the Joy Facility. If Phoebe had been mentoring her for years, Elena would've been well aware.

I don't think Phoebe would mentor just anyone. Otto really hyped her up when he said that she was as intelligent as Celeste was stupid. Almost think it would have to be a Karlsson or a DeKock.

Also, maybe I'm overthinking this but on the sub route Phoebe says something to Olivia, which kind of gives off misandrist/female-supremacy vibes... much like a certain green-eyed Karlsson that she's been spending time with...

 

[geebster]

geebster

Yes, that's right. And AFAIR, she wrote about it more than once. So Patreon, with its policy on incest, is secondary here, and her rejection of incest as such comes first...Here is one such post, which I didn't have to search long to find.

P.S. Besides, since when did his policy of banning incest in games become a problem for devs, lol? Dozens of games sold on Patreon contain incest, and the only question is which method a particular dev chooses to circumvent this prohibition.

So you didnt read the quote you are using as proof? I said specifically she had an issue with age gap (old male, younger female) incest. Which she literally says in the quote you provided as evidence she is anti incest. Every time ive seen her speak on this (which is many times, including with me recently) she clarifies its about older male younger female. Its always been age gap issues, simulating father and daughter or even older male etc. Nadia and Kane etc arent what she is talking about with that. Thats more about policy. Its also why the incesty vibes with olivia are perfectly fine.

Also even if you had found a quote that made your point (which you didn't) the fact that she now makes a very clear point on what kinds she is OK with or against and why it will or wont be included is far more important than anything said years ago because those would all be routes in the future, not past content. If her views evolved on this (no evidence to assert this) theres no issue there. But what she said recently a few times is consistent with the quote you posted.

All games that have incest in them either let you define the relationships or they have yet to be caught/are under the radar (as others have said).

 

[Stan5851]

So you didnt read the quote you are using as proof? I said specifically she had an issue with age gap (old male, younger female) incest. Which she literally says in the quote you provided as evidence she is anti incest. Every time ive seen her speak on this (which is many times, including with me recently) she clarifies its about older male younger female. Its always been age gap issues, simulating father and daughter or even older male etc. Nadia and Kane etc arent what she is talking about with that. Thats more about policy. Its also why the incesty vibes with olivia are perfectly fine.

Also even if you had found a quote that made your point (which you didn't) the fact that she now makes a very clear point on what kinds she is OK with or against and why it will or wont be included is far more important than anything said years ago because those would all be routes in the future, not past content. If her views evolved on this (no evidence to assert this) theres no issue there. But what she said recently a few times is consistent with the quote you posted.

All games that have incest in them either let you define the relationships or they have yet to be caught/are under the radar (as others have said).

As for what she talked about many times, it was always about incest and how, because of her own experience as a volunteer and communicating with victims of incest, this "kink" would never be in her game. And she never said that she decided not to include incest in the game specifically because of Patreon's terms of service (which can be easily circumvented using perfectly legal methods, such as those used in DS, for example).

So the root cause of its absence is still her personal dislike of the phenomenon. That's all I want to say in this context, and you're not going to change my mind anyway. This isn't Tess's discord with a crowd of devoted hamster fans, where, apparently, you reside. And yes, the relationship between Olivia and Dom Kane cannot be considered incestuous a priori.

 

[Stan5851]

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My friend, this isn't the first time we've (players) politely asked to hide this femdom crap under a spoiler...Thanks.

 

[Silver_Crow117]

Claudia seems unlikely. As far as we know she's not really close to any board member (though Dominique has recently been trying to dig her claws into her). And personally I think it would be odd to say 'just someone I'm mentoring' when it's your own stepdaughter.

I had considered Katsumi as well considering she is both close to Elena and Juliette and would likely be rooting for Olivia as well, but it seems unlikely that Phoebe would have any interest in her, and how would she have been mentoring her for years when she had been busy in the program and under Elena's guidance. She had only just become an executive when Kane arrived at the Joy Facility. If Phoebe had been mentoring her for years, Elena would've been well aware.

I don't think Phoebe would mentor just anyone. Otto really hyped her up when he said that she was as intelligent as Celeste was stupid. Almost think it would have to be a Karlsson or a DeKock.

Also, maybe I'm overthinking this but on the sub route Phoebe says something to Olivia, which kind of gives off misandrist/female-supremacy vibes... much like a certain green-eyed Karlsson that she's been spending time with...
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Is that a tongue I see under a heel? …

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Older male younger female, like the relationship between Alexander and Katsumi? Or is that not as creepy cuz they're not blood related?

 

[harsha_26]

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Atleast for me (don't know about you all, you might not be into little extreme side of maledom), I like these scenes in a opposite way, But sadly these type of scenes wont be available for domKane, especially with karlsson's sisters according to Tess's plan as she stated "Harsher and more extreme femdom, but lighter and a little stronger maledom" in her patreon.

 

[Stan5851]

Older male younger female, like the relationship between Alexander and Katsumi? Or is that not as creepy cuz they're not blood related?

I think they're not blood related, but we still don't know which family Katsumi and Kiyomi were taken from.

according to Tess's plan as she stated "Harsher and more extreme femdom, but lighter and a little stronger maledom" in her patreon.

Then let her play her game herself.

 

[kinkyshin]

Older male younger female, like the relationship between Alexander and Katsumi? Or is that not as creepy cuz they're not blood related?

Not blood related. He never raped her (I guess technically he could've stuck it in her butt). Also I think a much better example to use here would be Veronica, since it's heavily implied he at least sexually abused her.

In Alexander's case, I don't think Tess is against making him look creepy.

 

[kinkyshin]

Atleast for me (don't know about you all, you might not be into little extreme side of maledom), I like these scenes in a opposite way, But sadly these type of scenes wont be available for domKane, especially with karlsson's sisters according to Tess's plan as she stated "Harsher and more extreme femdom, but lighter and a little stronger maledom" in her patreon.

Err, what is the 'little extreme side of maledom' to you? I don't really have any interest in Kane whipping women to the brink of death or anything like that.

I've actually had an idea for a scene regarding Katsumi for evil Kane for a while now (ever since last update when she said he should become the next Alexander). We know that Kane gets Katsumi's virginity. I think it would be cool if there was a scene later where Kane is fucking her and he asks if anyone else has fucked her since. Regardless of her answer, he tells her that no one besides him gets to fuck her. If she ever fucks any other man, he will kill her. This feels like a very Alexander-like thing to do (at least the way I've imagined him). Alexander and Katsumi seemed to be fond of one another anyways, so it makes sense that the 'next Alexander' would be fond (and possessive) of her as well. Am I a genius or what?

I'm confused about what exactly 'lighter and a little stronger maledom' means though... Does this really make sense? Isn't this like saying that an elephant is 'smaller and a little bigger'?

 

[kinkyshin]

I don't know if anyone has any interest in the masks, but I thought I would put together a list of all the masks and who they belong to as of Episode 7. After that, the masks go crazy because I think Tess had a hardware issue and lost some assets. I will do another list or 8.2 or 8.3 later depending on how I feel about it. But let me know which you agree/disagree with.

It's really had to find any information on what these sorts of masks are supposed to symbolize. Apparently the color red represents passion (Olivia) and the color pink represents creativity (Callista) but Olivia is supposedly quite creative too, so maybe I've mixed up their masks? Not sure. And I can't tell if the fading mask is Cole or Alexander. And as for the latest (as of Episode 7) mask that looks like Medusa, I'm completely stumped.

As always, I've chosen the best images of characters that I could find.

Spoiler

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Err, I'm missing a few. hold on a sec lol

 

[kinkyshin]

The last few masks obviously belong to the DeKocks and I can't find any funny looking images of them except for Stefan who just always looks funny so I'm not gonna bother.

 

[jadepaladin]

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I don't know if anyone has any interest in the masks, but I thought I would put together a list of all the masks and who they belong to as of Episode 7. After that, the masks go crazy because I think Tess had a hardware issue and lost some assets. I will do another list or 8.2 or 8.3 later depending on how I feel about it. But let me know which you agree/disagree with.

It's really had to find any information on what these sorts of masks are supposed to symbolize. Apparently the color red represents passion (Olivia) and the color pink represents creativity (Callista) but Olivia is supposedly quite creative too, so maybe I've mixed up their masks? Not sure. And I can't tell if the fading mask is Cole or Alexander. And as for the latest (as of Episode 7) mask that looks like Medusa, I'm completely stumped.

As always, I've chosen the best images of characters that I could find.


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Err, I'm missing a few. hold on a sec lol

You had me in the first half. I was like "Are we really gonna have 10 pages of mask debate again?"

A+ quality shitpost.

(Politely) Could we get the masks crap and other images hidden behind a spoiler?

 

[Maviarab]

View attachment 5234041
I don't know if anyone has any interest in the masks, but I thought I would put together a list of all the masks and who they belong to as of Episode 7. After that, the masks go crazy because I think Tess had a hardware issue and lost some assets. I will do another list or 8.2 or 8.3 later depending on how I feel about it. But let me know which you agree/disagree with.

It's really had to find any information on what these sorts of masks are supposed to symbolize. Apparently the color red represents passion (Olivia) and the color pink represents creativity (Callista) but Olivia is supposedly quite creative too, so maybe I've mixed up their masks? Not sure. And I can't tell if the fading mask is Cole or Alexander. And as for the latest (as of Episode 7) mask that looks like Medusa, I'm completely stumped.

As always, I've chosen the best images of characters that I could find.

Spoiler

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Err, I'm missing a few. hold on a sec lol

Dude....really? I'm in this thread remember?

Alright ladies and gentlemen: Further to the conversation started here...

So we now have 8 Chapter Screens...6 new masks from the last time this was discussed (though some of those could be a replacement for some lost assets by Tess). We shall see. Some interesting theories going back over the convo when I was on my hiatus...so have been doing more research on this...much more...

So...masks per episode:

View attachment 3372505

Using my Timeline and taking all the chapter cards into consideration (and their placement):

View attachment 3372507 View attachment 3372508 View attachment 3372509 View attachment 3372510 View attachment 3372511 View attachment 3372512 View attachment 3372513

Let's see what we can conjure:

Ep.2: Callista, Main overarching central character essential to the plot. (also main game theme image of Tess too). Seth is iontroduced and while not a central character, he seems to be central to the overall plot. Kiyomi (not introduced yet as per Tess' commentary of one mask that partially or in whole represents someone not formally introduced in the game yet), is watching over him.

Ep.3: Placement of the masks does mostly match up with the major events of this episode.

Ep.4: Placement mostly matches....Jules & Dom still apart, Elena over Olivia with Alessa and Veronica either side. Kiyomi watching over Seth with wildcard Katsumi off to their side.

Ep.5: An interesting one. Dom & Jules meet to discuss the threat of Olivia (Masks together)...Red Tips meets with the Gambit Queen, Elena inbetween Olivia and Kane (they both meet Elena privately this episode). Kiyomi again watching over Seth. Jester mask in the eye of the Red Queen though...hmm...just don't see the connection...

Ep.6: Three new masks. We also have the introduction of the DeKcoks, Cole himself and Astrid Karlsson...Olivia central in the Chapter Card with relevent characters around her. Most of this fits or can be made to fit chapter events. Mostly.

Ep.7: Two new masks this time, the three new from Ep.6 also return. 16 masks on this Chapter card. For the first time, Veronica and Alessa are split, Kane and Olivia either side of Veronica. Jules & Dom are next to Olivia and Alessa splits Seth/Kiyomi for their fist time being split also (makes sense). Elena is once again between Olivia and Callista with a new mask now between Kane and Callista (Cynthia perhaps) and a new mask below and off to the right of Veronica near Olivia. Could this be Astrid's mask???

Which leaves us here:

View attachment 3372605

Now:

For Ep.2:

If Seth is the 'not formally introduced Character'...then Orange shadows can't be Kiyomi....

If Red Queen is the not formally introuduced character...that still throws doubt on Orange Shadow...

Or...if Kiyomi is the not formally introduced character...is Red Queen just there as 1. Main game image and/or 2. Callista being the over-arching central main character of the story? (Seth is introduced in Ep.2)

Other thoughts:

• Katsumi as Jester/Joker often fits...but Ep.5 Chapter card makes zero sense....or does it?
• New mask for Ep.7 between Kane and Callista....phantom & Feathers mask off to the left of this new mask..between Kane and Callista with butterfly from Ep.6 far to the left instead of near Olivia
• Ep.6: New faces, Cole, DeKock family members & Otto
• Ep.7: New faces are Pod W2 and Astrid & Cole confirmed Kanes father

Both Nadia & Cole could fit a few of these....

• Feathers: Symbolizes trust, honor, strength, wisdom, power, and freedom. It is an object that is deeply revered and a sign of high honor
• Butterfly: In some cultures, butterflies symbolise rebirth.
• Phantom Mask: Symbolizes his vulnerability and the injustice he suffers from (from Phantom Opera)
• Bird Mask: A symbol of death and disease… However, they were misunderstood; they were harbingers of new beginnings

Sooo....thoughts on Cole, Cynthia...Otto maybe? Is Delilah going to be a significant enough character to warrant a mask? Coming back around to Ep.5 Chapter card...possible Katsumi mask behind/in the eyes of Callista, the game show is referenced first in Chapter 5 here:

p "Nice to meet you Hyori, and good luck with your application."
    scene e5fashplan10 with mediumdissolve
    hyori "Thank you! I'm applying to help out with entertainment planning for a game show here, so I'm really hoping I can get the job!"
    p "(Game show?) Good luck to you."

Now, as Tess stated: 3) A mask (or more than one mask on screen) is not always an exact 1 to 1 representation of a character (mostly it makes sense it would be though), perhaps it could represent something broader than one specific character.. could this perhaps be a reference to something broader, something largely out of Callista's hands and something she would not originally have known about...like the game show..??

Provisional in case Chapter card changes:

If it doesn't...well well well...more to unpack....expecially with the location of the masks. Once again (for the third time now), what I assume are Alessa's and V's masks are split...even furrther away than they have ever been before. Dom and Jules as always, still next to each other (their alliance still in place perhaps?). As usual, Elena close to Olivia (I personally think one of the new masks previously was due to Tess losing them, as you can see, she has not lost them 'again' now I have returned them to her,,,again lol).

Small mask I put down as Astrid making it's first appearance in 7, is back for 8.2 and in the vortex space whirlpool. I am taking this as the introduction of Anais' own game and that we know catagorically Astrid is in it. I think that nails down that mask and is reflected in my sheet (And I think also confirms Veronica's mask too given placement).

Three masks that made a first appearance in 8.1 return for 8.2. One of these must be Cole's for my money. Tentatively marked which one I think. The new Jester mask comes back, still lost on this one, however, clues clues clues people...think beyond what you see..between Olivia and Kane???. Callista is now completely seperated (as she has been in the past) but joined with three masks. I never thought before about peripheral characters having a mask but maybe...one has to be Cole...what we assumed was Kiyomi's is on it's own....hmmmm...one for Otto perhaps or Nadia, and think I have Cynthia's nailed down now too but...?

Spoiler: 0.8.2 Chapter Card

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___________________________
All that aside, my Timeline and Character and Save Sheets are now completely done. Just waiting to see exactly where the new scenes fit into everything before I can complete my Timeline. Hopefully should be able to have them up very shortly after 0.8.2 Final hits.

 

[kinkyshin]

Dude....really? I'm in this thread remember?

You didn't use pretty images of the characters like I did though.

 

[harsha_26]

Err, what is the 'little extreme side of maledom' to you? I don't really have any interest in Kane whipping women to the brink of death or anything like that.

I've actually had an idea for a scene regarding Katsumi for evil Kane for a while now (ever since last update when she said he should become the next Alexander). We know that Kane gets Katsumi's virginity. I think it would be cool if there was a scene later where Kane is fucking her and he asks if anyone else has fucked her since. Regardless of her answer, he tells her that no one besides him gets to fuck her. If she ever fucks any other man, he will kill her. This feels like a very Alexander-like thing to do (at least the way I've imagined him). Alexander and Katsumi seemed to be fond of one another anyways, so it makes sense that the 'next Alexander' would be fond (and possessive) of her as well. Am I a genius or what?

I'm confused about what exactly 'lighter and a little stronger maledom' means though... Does this really make sense? Isn't this like saying that an elephant is 'smaller and a little bigger'?

How is that evil? You are just claiming a girl like any other harem games but yes with a murder warning. I don't think it comes under extreme kinks. You can give her a peaceful death anyway and still the task would be completed. Killing is a simple one second of work. Or it may be just a warning to keep her in check. Doesn't mean it actually happens anyway because in dom paths, no other known males are involved in program.

What I meant by extreme is.. The things we see in the Femdom path for males. I know you know now very well what those are. Is there any piss bucket of domKane, where karlsson's sisters should drink from it? No. Is there any foot of domkane being licked or sucked by karlsson's sisters? I can give you so many examples and these are not like "murder or death". But unfortunately these things you won't see in dom paths.
And it won't be forever even if domKane becomes z5. May be it's possible with girls like amy yes. But not with karlsson's sisters for sure. Whipping Dominique's ass is the only possible thing you can see in future for evil dom. That's it. That too it is not really evil because she encouraged him already indirectly in 8.2 release. But you seem very soft hearted for dom side by your katsumi example. So, it won't bother you, dont worry.

 

[harsha_26]

One one example where elena told subkane to drink olivia (or chanel's) piss because there is no nice place to piss on road, and ordering subkane to sit in car deck because there is no place in car. These are not death or painful physically. But yes mentally they are evil kinks. You think those kind of kinks exist for domKane to do with especially Karlsson sisters like olivia or Alesandra? May be for juli or domi. But not for Alesandra or olivia.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

yea we been discussing those masks for four years ( jesus, four years, time is going by fast).

Tess had a pretty fun revelation on her patreon that each mask in the intro represents a character in the game. Only ones she gave us is pink= olivia and double faced silver=kane. Any speculation as to who the others are. Fun exercise to speculate about as we get closer to this release date
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Not blood related. He never raped her (I guess technically he could've stuck it in her butt). Also I think a much better example to use here would be Veronica, since it's heavily implied he at least sexually abused her.

In Alexander's case, I don't think Tess is against making him look creepy.

It feels like he at the very least groomed her. Which is bad regardless of whether or not they're related by blood.
I doubt he did anything sexual with Veronica. Alexander is interested in creating the perfect offspring I doubt he'd have kids that were products of incest.