VN Ren'Py Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.1] [Hreinn Games]

[psycohunter96]

Hey people, Nomo here.

I see some people here being upset about the time the recent updates take and just wanted to give my side. I hope you can try to not be as harsh to the new team and how things are in comparison with Sierra, since with her we did have 3~4 months before even starting patreon, to work on Noxian Night in which we improved our teamwork and efficiency.

With KoD and the current new team, it is a lot harder than that. It is like jumping on a moving train and trying to keep your balance. We did spend a lot of time remaking and writing the plans, story lines and lore and rewriting it in a new format, since a lot of my plans with Sierra were scattered in chat conversations and emails. We did that while we also worked on new releases. It is no joke how much time and work that can take and be put into practice for people joining so far into the development of a project. On top of getting the new team familiar with multiple other things like character profiles, how they act, their backstories not yet revealed or other quirks and specifics for current and future events in writing and coding. Monsinne for one example had to learn some coding too, to be able to add in dialogue and expressions, plus dialogue options among other things.Also the last 2 updates had more than 150 000 words in writing.

I understand how some of those things can go completely unnoticed on the outside and only the CG fetishes and count to be looked at as what we only do, so hopefully I can bring up a new angle that might make you understand us and our work better. Overall tho, I am happy how they are doing things and we did iron out a lot of edges to smooth our team work.So while I saw some people here doomsaying, I have no plans to stop developing KoD and will do everything I can to finish and improve its quality and have a big story driven game filled with fetishes that everyone can find something they like depending on their choices.

For the current update, I am happy how it turned out. We did listen to feedback and have been improving a lot of things after Sierra left, and have been reintroducing some of the earlier content. In this update we did present both dom and sub scenes and a scene for each allaence, but also we tried to have more human scenes as opposed to orc ones people seemed to want to go away from. We did have a bad end, that was highly requested and on top of that we added a tentacle scene if you wanted something entirely different. We cant please everyone, but hopefully everyone got at least something they liked out of it.
Next we will be focusing on making cities and human character bases to fill them with, which I am currently drawing, in order for Sabia to venture out and progress the story that direction. I know people usually dont appreciate or care that much for the effort put in backgrounds or things like character designs,writing and base sprites, but it is something that the game needs to function.

So that aside, if you have constructive feedback after reading and playing through this update and the last one my new team worked on, I am happy to read and reflect on. If you have in-depth comments with examples and opinions on art, cgs, writing and story, or maybe game design in general do share them and I will read through. Also this update we also introduced and worked on 2 new characters, Bris and Kira, hopefully you liked the work put in their designs and characters because we do have a lot of fun ideas with them too. Also I do know some people consider variants as simple work, but CG's like the tekrok one in the current update had over 300 layers in order for Sabia to be able to do blowjobs, handjobs, have double penetration and all the groping action plus more. CG's like that one easily consume double and more the work than a normal one, so while some people simplify everything to just ''one cg'',they do miss the complexity and flexibility they provide. It is the easiest thing for me to make on static picture with cum off and cum on, and finish it in 2/3 days, but I hope the added motion and visual changes justify the time and work they take me.
Of course if people dislike the many changes and variants like we had in the tekrok and the tentacle/Ba ashi CGs for example, I can always tone that down and make more CGs, but with simple to no changes on them.

I know some people here seem to be pessimistic, so hopefully that perspective and insight plus what we have in plans in the future can ease your concerns. Since in the end of the day I do want to make people happy playing my games and I do enjoy what I do to the point where quality and improving is what I strive for.

In all honesty i think the update was pretty damn good it had good scenes for all and the story was smooth and fun to read. In general there are lots of improvments and people are finaly getting what they have been asking scene wise. The only problem that still lurks is the time between updates.If the same exact update came mid march like around 15-20 noone whould have any right to complain. Now cause of the 3 month+ dellay(after you promised faster updates) and the fact that there was no communication with your community(one post at the start of march one at the end) made a lot of people mad and they are a little justified. The game is amazing dont get me wrong but it needs a scedule and a good one at that! Like if the next update comes mid to the end of june and the people are informed (and you actually deliver) all the haters and people bad mouthing the game and your team whouldnt have their complains justified. I hope you actually read my feed back and give it some thought. I believe that misshaps can happen and they were the cause of delays and not the fact that you were milking your patreons but you need prove that to everyone with your future updates! I realy hope you will read this and maybe tell me you ropinion I am a big fan keep up the good work!

 

[Kerlon]

...

Thanks for taking your time to give us a look from your perspective. I already said this on your patreon page that there is a small, very vocal minority that keeps shitting on the game because they can't live with the fact that Sierra left the development.
I was just wondering, whose decision was it to go for Renpy for Kingdom of Deception, as I think the world, battle system and story would be a much better fit for RPG Maker?

 

[Nomo]

again batch of excuses instead of just admitting that you fucked up....

I am not sure what you consider as my fuck up, but I would say that I would have apologized and felt awful if I wasnt able to keep up KoD's development once things with Sierra were not possbile to continue forward. I actually feel lucky I was able to find a programmer that was familiar with the code and was willing to put in the time to step in and take control of it and a writer that also was in a similiar position and willing to put in the time needed. I do feel sad they are getting hate even when they are doing their best and working day and night to help me move KoD forward.
If you want me to apologize for time taken on the last 2 updates, I already did in a patreon post and I do wish things were possible to be done faster, but as I said in my post above having new people jump into such a project is not an easy job. I do want to go back to the smaller but more regular updates like we had with NN, but that does take some time until we are fully in control of the game as a team and can just think of making new updates and not all the extra things needed for them to adapt.

 

[MasterDisaster]

I think the biggest complain that people are having is, that the communication kinda sucked.
Man, I know how long any project can take and that there's always the possibility of unforeseen circumstances, but communication is key. No problem, if an update may take a while longer, but it's important to inform people/ your patreons as quick as possible.

Just my two cents.

 

[pizbia]

and the fact that there was no communication with your community(one post at the start of march one at the end) made a lot of people mad and they are a little justified. The game is amazing dont get me wrong but it needs a scedule and a good one at that! Like if the next update comes mid to the end of june and the people are informed (and you actually deliver) all the haters and people bad mouthing the game and your team whouldnt have their complains justified.

This is the main issue in my opinion, too. Anyone who expected faster updates after losing a team member was an idiot, that's one of the most valid reasons you could have for slow progress.

But regardless of what the reasons are, even if the reason for some delay was something kind of mundane, like "sorry guys, we've honestly got no clue what we're doing right now and need to take a bit to sort things out," at least that lets people remain informed. Otherwise people are going to assume the worst, given how common patreon scams are, and creators outright giving up and vanishing after overpromising and underdelivering (Malise and the Machine, Akabur, countless others).

This has to be the #1 reason behind almost every case of people getting angry at any patreon page, without a doubt, and I really think people would be more optimistic if you simply improved communication. You can't please everyone and you shouldn't try, but you can let them know what's going on and keep the trust. And most importantly, good communication would build you a lot of respect on a site known for financially incentivising abuse of trust.

I actually liked the writing in this recent update, particularly around Ornshakar, for what it's worth, and this is one of the very few games on patreon I'd even consider spending money on.

 

[psycohunter96]

This is the main issue in my opinion, too. Anyone who expected faster updates after losing a team member was an idiot, that's one of the most valid reasons you could have for slow progress.

But regardless of what the reasons are, even if the reason for some delay was something kind of mundane, like "sorry guys, we've honestly got no clue what we're doing right now and need to take a bit to sort things out," at least that lets people remain informed. Otherwise people are going to assume the worst, given how common patreon scams are, and creators outright giving up and vanishing after overpromising and underdelivering (Malise and the Machine, Akabur, countless others).

This has to be the #1 reason behind almost every case of people getting angry at any patreon page, without a doubt, and I really think people would be more optimistic if you simply improved communication. You can't please everyone and you shouldn't try, but you can let them know what's going on and keep the trust.

I actually liked the writing in this recent update, particularly around Ornshakar, for what it's worth.

In my opinion( and I speak as a fan and not someone who knows about game develompent) they need to make a scedule. set an aproximate date(like i said mid to end of june 2 plus months to work on the new update) and try to make it work and if it takes more time and there are misshaps maybe stop the monthly payment for the delay period and use the per post one until the delays are over. And post more often on their patreon like they did back in the NN days. It might sound overwhelming but if you learn to work on a programm you will work more sufficient i gurantee that

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

This has to be the #1 reason behind almost every case of people getting angry at any patreon page, without a doubt, and I really think people would be more optimistic if you simply improved communication. You can't please everyone and you shouldn't try, but you can let them know what's going on and keep the trust.

I'm seconding this. Just a couple of really quick status updates made as soon as you realized you weren't able to release in March would've changed the attitude completely.

 

[Teal]

WHere does this update end? I've trapped the tentacle monster in a cave, and can't seem to do anything else. Is that it?

 

[Anmitsu]

Heyyy, Nomo, your art has improved again I think.
I liked the bad end scene the most what I find surprising since I didn't expect Kira to be a character which will come to my tastes. Probably because I love when Sabia is dominated.

 

[RedPillBlues]

but also we tried to have more human scenes as opposed to orc ones people seemed to want to go away from. We did have a bad end, that was highly requested and on top of that we added a tentacle scene if you wanted something entirely different. We cant please everyone, but hopefully everyone got at least something they liked out of it.
Next we will be focusing on making cities and human character bases to fill them with, which I am currently drawing, in order for Sabia to venture out and progress the story that direction.

Going from Orcs to Humans seems like a terrible Idea if i'm being honest. People are tired of the orcs for a few reasons. It's dragged on way too long, with a large amount of text. You went from Noxian Nights which had a minimal amount of text (At least compared to this), to basically a Akabur game. Its a huge jump, a lot of people who were fans of NN are of course not going to be a fan of that. Personally I don't mind a lot of narrative, but I do read a lot of Wuxia novels so I'm used to reading for hours. Another reason is orcs get boring pretty fast. In reality they are just slightly more muscular humans, that are green; oh yea, and fucked up teeth. Out of all the fantasy races you could start with its probably the worst one in my opinion, especially considering how long its dragged on narrative wise. So going from a race that is slightly not human, to adventuring in the human world seems just uninspired. I mean of all the races you could choose from you put those two back to back, you really need to give that more thought. Although I'll admit, almost anything is better then orcs at this point.

So that aside, if you have constructive feedback after reading and playing through this update and the last one my new team worked on, I am happy to read and reflect on. If you have in-depth comments with examples and opinions on art, cgs, writing and story, or maybe game design in general do share them and I will read through.

Yeah I got a few with criticisms with the CG's, despite them being really high quality.

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A x-ray (option if you have to) would be pretty nice here, its a quality of life thing, but would do wonders to make the scene 100x better.

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Why you chose that position for Malpy I will never know, a otherwise great idea for a scene was basically ruined for a lot people because of a design choice. If you really wanted to make it in that pose for whatever reason you could have added a second window showing the penetration. As for the Sabia scene, you could have made the leg see through, the leg covers way too much. I don't know why you didn't you've done it for orcs.

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Again I don't know what your issue is with the actual monster scenes, none of the orc scenes have any of these posing issues where you cant see whats going on, but with these its almost every other one. If you wanted to only show us the face you could have just changed her expression when the text plays. Ok no seriously though, if your going to do these scenes that don't show penetration you can make use of x-ray and secondary windows to alleviate this issue.

Please just stop fucking with the monster scenes so hard.

 

[baneini]

I think the biggest complain that people are having is, that the communication kinda sucked.
Man, I know how long any project can take and that there's always the possibility of unforeseen circumstances, but communication is key. No problem, if an update may take a while longer, but it's important to inform people/ your patreons as quick as possible.

What a non-critique.
How did the communication suck?
Why is communication key, what is it key for?
Did the update take longer than you expected? Seems to be following a set pattern.
Considering how you're talking about a game with 3-4 major patches a year speed isn't of vital importance to people. What does it matter if they learn a patch comes in ~ 6 weeks instead of ~4 weeks, does it impact their behavior somehow? Do you schedule time off from work for when it comes?
Besides the obvious of wanting all the content right now what do you actually want?

 

[ijako3]

I guess im in the minority because i like orcs. Hell, give the MC some action with the jadk or some bar scenes.

I will take orcs and humans, elves over Kia, catgirls, tentacles or whatever the shiet is out there.

About the update - i really liked the writing in this one, but sadly it was a really short one for Dom Sadia.

@RedPillBlues

''Another reason is orcs get boring pretty fast. In reality they are just slightly more muscular humans, that are green; oh yea, and fucked up teeth. Out of all the fantasy races you could start with its probably the worst one in my opinion'' - Yeah i really dissagree with that one about orcs being ''biggerr humens'', everyone that just downgrade this fantasy race(not only when it comes to this game) to that and them being the worst type of race to choose from is just talking out of their ass and this type of opinion lose it's legs faster than Golum can cum when he sees the one and only ring.
You can also downgrade every single fantasy race to something simple - I can say that Kia is just a goddamn chihuahua but with horns type of race or tentacles are a big joghurt but with spining around noodles type of creature etc and it just sounds stupid because each fantasy race is unique in it's own way..

Actually im happy that one of narratives is focused on orcs because i many these type of games the story involves mostly futa elves and some shiet, thats not my cup of tea and this game is finally the one that i can play without problems and how i choose.
In my opinion there's good amount of content for the people that love tentacles, monsters/some furry stuff and orcs or humans.

 

[Teal]

So, is there content past trapping the tentacle monster in the cave? Would be great for some clarification. Sub route fwiw

 

[Deleted member 609064]

I know some people here seem to be pessimistic, so hopefully that perspective and insight plus what we have in plans in the future can ease your concerns. Since in the end of the day I do want to make people happy playing my games and I do enjoy what I do to the point where quality and improving is what I strive for.

Thank you for all you do. This is a wonderful game and I hope everything will get easier with development.

Please tell your new team members that they have supporters.

 

[FlipFish]

Nomo you still here buddy? We want that Jadk route. I'm not even memeing at this point.

 

[I Love These Games]

Can I have android version and if not is there any good soul that would take pictures for me of each scene. Please

 

[I Love These Games]

Nomo you still here buddy? We want that Jadk route. I'm not even memeing at this point.

Yeah Jadk deserves some Sabia pussy for being such a good guy.. he helped her a lot, he deserves some.

 

[Architect04]

I think one of the bigger reasons beyond it just being to dragged out is that all the orcs are the exact same, I mean even the human scenes are basically orc scenes with human skin. Its the same 3 orc models(green,red,grey) with the same body, same dick, same face, Not to mention the human scenes all the same and they have like the same exact dick as an orc.

I get that its easier to make updates and stuff faster using a set template but if you are gonna have so many of the same scenes i think having some diversity in Orcs/Humans would ease some of the hate on all the Orc sex.

 

[TheSexinati]

Going from Orcs to Humans seems like a terrible Idea if i'm being honest. People are tired of the orcs for a few reasons. It's dragged on way too long, with a large amount of text. You went from Noxian Nights which had a minimal amount of text (At least compared to this), to basically a Akabur game. Its a huge jump, a lot of people who were fans of NN are of course not going to be a fan of that. Personally I don't mind a lot of narrative, but I do read a lot of Wuxia novels so I'm used to reading for hours. Another reason is orcs get boring pretty fast. In reality they are just slightly more muscular humans, that are green; oh yea, and fucked up teeth. Out of all the fantasy races you could start with its probably the worst one in my opinion, especially considering how long its dragged on narrative wise. So going from a race that is slightly not human, to adventuring in the human world seems just uninspired. I mean of all the races you could choose from you put those two back to back, you really need to give that more thought. Although I'll admit, almost anything is better then orcs at this point

How dare you besmirch and profane the name of my Husbando race! I shall descend upon you with the righteous fury of Ten-thousand enraged Fangirls!

#ORCLIVESMATTER!

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[ijako3]

I think one of the bigger reasons beyond it just being to dragged out is that all the orcs are the exact same, I mean even the human scenes are basically orc scenes with human skin. Its the same 3 orc models(green,red,grey) with the same body, same dick, same face, Not to mention the human scenes all the same and they have like the same exact dick as an orc.

I get that its easier to make updates and stuff faster using a set template but if you are gonna have so many of the same scenes i think having some diversity in Orcs/Humans would ease some of the hate on all the Orc sex.

This opinion i can agree on because it just sounds right.
We need more diversity when it comes to models, have more unique ones like warchiefs have or use some of them but slightly modified versions for random orcs.