VN Ren'Py Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.1] [Hreinn Games]

[Redleg]

I wish Nomo liked to draw more. Man has talent, but doesn't want to show it apparently. Its another project that had high hopes that dudes are just milking that cash as long as people pay them.

I honestly don't think not paying this lot would make them hurry though. Most of them North American I believe, the wages they are getting monthly would be a nice bonus monthly but according to the jobs they supposedly have in real life, I think they would just cancel, maybe change names or jump ship from each other, and start the same scheme somewhere else.

 

[AlienBreeder]

I wish Nomo liked to draw more. Man has talent, but doesn't want to show it apparently. Its another project that had high hopes that dudes are just milking that cash as long as people pay them.

I honestly don't think not paying this lot would make them hurry though. Most of them North American I believe, the wages they are getting monthly would be a nice bonus monthly but according to the jobs they supposedly have in real life, I think they would just cancel, maybe change names or jump ship from each other, and start the same scheme somewhere else.

Although I am loathe to divulge personal information about people over the internet (keep in mind that I don't use social media or use the internet terribly much), from their discussions I have inferred that Ndsferrari is Brazilian, Monsinne a Briton and Nomo a North American, though I could be out on all counts.

In a non-stalkerish fashion, I do always wonder about game developers (or at least the ones we see / hear about on f95) day jobs: in particular when it comes to the Hreinn crew, how much time a week on average do they have to spend on Kingdom of Deception?

Regardless of "We donate (only) 'X' much so you should do more/less work", how much time do they feasibly have to work on these projects, with other duties and commitments in their lives?

 

[Redleg]

Probably not a whole lot, but then again, why get in if you are not planning to work on it? To me that kind of screams this is a scam to get easy money for one months worth of month every six or seven months.

I used to be a donor for them back in the day when output was at least semi regular, but after the first big huge break I said f that noise.

People got a method, they still get paid for not doing anything for months. I get it. Its easy income.

If that is truly NOT your method, then you need to not make a game that last so long with so many moving pieces that you can't work on. Just do those little story releases with pics of Sabia and crew getting nailed. Maybe combine it in a serial fashion at the end.

 

[psycohunter96]

For all the guys wandering why they take so long or why they are milking their patreons and so on so on all you have to do is take a look at their discord chat. The fans are literaly so delusional with them that they dont ever question how they work and only talk about theoritical scenarios that they want in the game(like a game that gets updated once a year can have fan generated stuff) and praising them for the work they say they do. If you have such die hard and loyal fans (and i say loyal with the worse way possible) who never question you and throw you money why whould they speed up or actually work? Imagine you beeing in their shoes and having no moral objections like them, you whould do the same.

 

[Chaussettes]

Lol, came to see this game after 3 years of not playing it, tbh seems like not much has been added.

I've read a bit the last pages, so I know I'll get clowned on for saying this, but damn it's a waste. I love almost everything about the game, the girl, the orcs, the scenes, the premise, the potential it could have had (Like, for example, last time I played I said "Damn, I'm going to come back in a few years and it's going to be the absolute shit" while drooling in advance).

I'm a big, big fan of noxious nights, one of the first hentai games I played and it kinda conditionned me to expect such quality (but with some QoL additions...) for their next one, and yes it started very well imho.

Whatever, I'll take some of that hopium and still believe. Will come back again in 3 years.

 

[Shakira]

I've read a bit the last pages, so I know I'll get clowned on for saying this, but damn it's a waste. I love almost everything about the game, the girl, the orcs, the scenes, the premise, the potential it could have had (Like, for example, last time I played I said "Damn, I'm going to come back in a few years and it's going to be the absolute shit" while drooling in advance).

I don't think you're going to get clowned for saying that. Most people on this thread do agree that this game is a huge waste of potential. The premise, characters and art etc. are all top-notch but the super slow pace of development and not so good story writing has left this game in a terrible state.

I don't even bother to play the game now. I just check for updates every now and then and if there is an update, I check out the scenes with JDMOD and then forget about this game for a some time again. Rinse and repeat. I believe that is the ideal approach at this point. No point in stressing yourself over this game because it looks like they are just using it to milk their patreons now.

I am thankful to Nomo for introducing us to these female characters though. I really love them. I am thinking of commissioning other artists myself to draw some smut based on them in the future. I really want to see Sabia x Lynn/Slutty Monk before I die and I don't think I can count on Nomo for that

 

[nyqz]

From the posts I have seen till now, if I understood correctly, it seem one problem is that they had a premise for the story (world with orcs, betrayed, survive in orcs camp, try to get back or maybe end up forever with orcs, the orc factions), but that they started the game before having developed further the storyline, and then had to improvise.

I don't think improvising the storyline is the main problem with the game, I think the problem is having to improvise so many other things. The game has introduced heaps of mechanics which have been pretty much abandoned as it went on, either because they were struggling to make them work (the raiding feature), players hated the mechanic (like the puzzle minigame), or because it's hard to come up with story reasons to justify using it (combat). All that plus they had to trim back their insanely ambitious branching factions stuff. So you have a ton of work that just got left on the cutting room floor, and more of often than not the things they cut are the ways they were showing Sabia being an active character to balance out her mostly being written as reactive in the dialogue.

 

[ouch2020]

I don't think improvising the storyline is the main problem with the game, I think the problem is having to improvise so many other things. The game has introduced heaps of mechanics which have been pretty much abandoned as it went on, either because they were struggling to make them work (the raiding feature), players hated the mechanic (like the puzzle minigame), or because it's hard to come up with story reasons to justify using it (combat). All that plus they had to trim back their insanely ambitious branching factions stuff. So you have a ton of work that just got left on the cutting room floor, and more of often than not the things they cut are the ways they were showing Sabia being an active character to balance out her mostly being written as reactive in the dialogue.

Well, in my idea of storyline for a game (I am putting down an idea for a game now), aside the minigames, the rest are things that go with preparing the storyline.
If you have the background scenario, and the the storyline developing in it, put down before, then you can also get an idea of how far your branching can bring you (so, cut them before you start developing them), and try to make sure if you put something in the game, it is justified by the scenario and storyline.

 

[Enigmanic]

Well, in my idea of storyline for a game (I am putting down an idea for a game now), aside the minigames, the rest are things that go with preparing the storyline.
If you have the background scenario, and the the storyline developing in it, put down before, then you can also get an idea of how far your branching can bring you (so, cut them before you start developing them), and try to make sure if you put something in the game, it is justified by the scenario and storyline.

I had an argument with Nomo before I abandoned their Patreon and Discord (after I'd been a supporter since 2017). He tried to explain or justify the long development time by saying that the story hasn't advanced past the first map area because they needed to make the art assets for the other locations.

 

[Jinsoyun]

I had an argument with Nomo before I abandoned their Patreon and Discord (after I'd been a supporter since 2017). He tried to explain or justify the long development time by saying that the story hasn't advanced past the first map area because they needed to make the art assets for the other locations.

That sounds like a half truth on Nomo's part. It might not be intentional, at least i can't tell since i don't know him.

On one hand there are two things i said before and i stand by my points:
Artist work in their own pace and since nobody else can make the same art, the rest of us kind of have to deal with it.
And it is also true that new locations will need new assets. Some areas like the elven or shaman villages would need more than just backgrounds and a few new mods to existing character models, and that will take time if the human town expansion is anything to go by.

On the other hand...
I consistently bring this second point up whenever they write something like " we made new stuff so future updates will be faster", because we already know that some updates will require assets that are not ready yet. It's a bit convenient to bring up the required time in defense, but somehow leave it out of the marketing messages.
Also, him using this argument kind of proves the theory that Hreinn has no fixed road map. I mean if they knew that, let's say 0.16 was a patch with in elven town, then it doesn't matter how long it takes to draw it, if the story goes there they have to make it and we have to wait for it.

Either way i still think that their main problem is a lack of planning and management. Even if their road map is flexible, they could do things that help them on the way.

Staying at the example of a new area, let's say that they wanted to go to a minotaur camp and so the game needed both backgrounds and character assets. Then instead of doing it all at once like they did with the human towns and taking up months for one big chunk of content, do it piece by piece:

Start drawing 1-2 minotaur NPCs and introduce them one patch ahead of time. That way some assets are already drawn, players can get some content and the minotaur fans will know that the next patch is for them.
By doing this we have to wait less, the patrons will have less uncertainty and Hreinn will probably get a few extra bucks from those who want that specific content.

 

[punhetas]

For all the guys wandering why they take so long or why they are milking their patreons and so on so on all you have to do is take a look at their discord chat. The fans are literaly so delusional with them that they dont ever question how they work and only talk about theoritical scenarios that they want in the game(like a game that gets updated once a year can have fan generated stuff) and praising them for the work they say they do. If you have such die hard and loyal fans (and i say loyal with the worse way possible) who never question you and throw you money why whould they speed up or actually work? Imagine you beeing in their shoes and having no moral objections like them, you whould do the same.

Every successful game that gets a solid fan base risks deriving in this behaviour.
Breeding season was one of the first big games on the Patreon platform, ranking up to 30 thousand a month. Even when the shit hit the fan and it was known that the dev was spending the money grooming a girl, buying her pianos and shit, the vocal majority was still defending him when nothing substantial was being released for over a year.

Once people get invested they are very reluctant to admit they are betting in the wrong horse and double down instead of recognizing the downfall.

 

[ouch2020]

Every successful game that gets a solid fan base risks deriving in this behaviour.
Breeding season was one of the first big games on the Patreon platform, ranking up to 30 thousand a month. Even when the shit hit the fan and it was known that the dev was spending the money grooming a girl, buying her pianos and shit, the vocal majority was still defending him when nothing substantial was being released for over a year.

Once people get invested they are very reluctant to admit they are betting in the wrong horse and double down instead of recognizing the downfall.

Uh, "grooming a girl", honestly, that expression make it sound like something not so innocent (and I don't mean for the people paying).
Sounds like someone who takes a (much, often) younger girl, and kind of raise her specifically to become his "partner".
In the past, something of that type was done by some nobles and kings, often with more lower class ones (who in general would never become really partner, at best mistresses, at worst, groomed for a bit, used and then thrown away).

 

[Lolicon Kami]

Even when the shit hit the fan and it was known that the dev was spending the money grooming a girl, buying her pianos and shit, the vocal majority was still defending him when nothing substantial was being released for over a year.

Don't see how this is unethical behavior, and don't see how this is grooming. Could you elaborate?

"Grooming" usually carries the connotation that the girl is underage, which if true, is a major problem that should never be defended (unless romeo and juliet laws apply). But you do not mention this fact, so I am unsure of what you are saying constitutes as grooming

Thanks

 

[punhetas]

Uh, "grooming a girl", honestly, that expression make it sound like something not so innocent (and I don't mean for the people paying).
Sounds like someone who takes a (much, often) younger girl, and kind of raise her specifically to become his "partner".
In the past, something of that type was done by some nobles and kings, often with more lower class ones (who in general would never become really partner, at best mistresses, at worst, groomed for a bit, used and then thrown away).

Hum, I see grooming was not the appropriate word, I believe it was not predatory as I implied, more on the sad and pathetic, according to some sources...

Also, there was not anything inherently wrong, except supporting the project blindly ended up killing it in the short run.

 

[bloodmane]

Hum, I see grooming was not the appropriate word, I believe it was not predatory as I implied, more on the sad and pathetic, according to some sources...

Also, there was not anything inherently wrong, except supporting the project blindly ended up killing it in the short run.

maybe simping would be the better term? note that i dont have the context to that story

 

[Enigmanic]

maybe simping would be the better term? note that i dont have the context to that story

It sounds like the point was the dev spent the money on his gold-digging girlfriend instead of developing the game.

 

[ouch2020]

Hum, I see grooming was not the appropriate word, I believe it was not predatory as I implied, more on the sad and pathetic, according to some sources...

Also, there was not anything inherently wrong, except supporting the project blindly ended up killing it in the short run.

No problem. I was just curious. I mentioned the old ages, but in reality, this kind of things still exist - effectively, the difference is that instead of being almost exclusively from the older noble/king side or pushed by her family, nowadays it can be initiated both ways.
It is the "sugar daddy", or even really cases of "prostitution for a new mobile phone or even for a mobile phone charge" (and it is not ony girls from desperate family situations).

lolicon-kami I agree on considering such practice negatively when she is below full legal rights age, and honestly, even when she is above, if done in a kind of predatory way.
I play naughty and dirty computer games, I don't do the stuff for real, but since I suspect from your comment you are from USA, be aware of a few things....

1) Most countries in the World have an "age of consent" for sexual activity that is below the age of full legal rights (so, "under age" for e.g. voting, but not "under age" for sexual activity), and in reality, that includes also many if not most States in USA (a number have age of consent at 16), and most countries do not have (anymore) "statutory rape", i.e. the age difference does not matter, insofar as both are above age of consent;

2) Even in USA, it seems most people think what applies to their State applies everywhere, but it is far from being the case, for a conversation on F95 I had checked.
You have cases like California, where even if both are under 18, they will anyway be punished (age of consent is basically 18), to another state where there is an age of consent, but if they are married then it is legal even if the partner is only 13 years old (?!) independently from the age of the spouse, to another where age of consent is well above 13, but can go as down as to 13 depending on the difference of age with the sexual partner (basically, a form of "statutory rape", but with a "sliding window" mechanism).

3) Even more problematic, I still think the "grown up" should be careful and avoid it, and minors should be protected from "predators", but as I already mentioned, it is a fact that it is not anymore the case that by definition it is the older one that seeks and tries with the younger one, it can well be the opposite.
Of course, I am not talking about pedophily and ten years old, but still, under the age of full legal rights and very young e.g. 15-17 (but even 14).

 

[punhetas]

You must be registered to see the links

The original blog with the posts "washing dirty laundry" are gone, but that's the summary.

Tha article paints S-purple with blame for the demise, but basically HBomb wasn't doing shit for months either, and S-Purble said fuck it and left with the assets and money, and started working on his game, cloud meadow, another game stuck in development hell.

TL\DR: don't throw money blindly to Weg games, unchecked people will take your money and do nothing in return.

 

[MingXiao]

4 years and we still haven't even explored 20% of the map. Only way to fix this would be to change the payment method to updates only.

Its a convoluted mess. Too much is happening at once and we have yet managed to do anything. I think that if they opened up some mail to receive free work would be heavily beneficial because at the moment I got no idea of whats happening and we could have skipped the whole pagan night ritual since they already established a setting for all the characters. Getting to know a character you already know and having them repeat their character to you is superfluous.

 

[MingXiao]

You must be registered to see the links

The original blog with the posts "washing dirty laundry" are gone, but that's the summary.

Tha article paints S-purple with blame for the demise, but basically HBomb wasn't doing shit for months either, and S-Purble said fuck it and left with the assets and money, and started working on his game, cloud meadow, another game stuck in development hell.

TL\DR: don't throw money blindly to Weg games, unchecked people will take your money and do nothing in return.

Oh yeah I remember their month long wait for another animation lol