Also NN was completed in around a year, this game has been in development from ~October of 2016. 6 years. Six years Hreinn can't complete a renpy game. In less time than this game has been in development for example, Remtairy (2 man porn dev) have released 4 completed games.
Well, my suggestions have been consistent ever since i started posting here and i still stand by them: planning, managing and communication.
Hreinn is a small team and as you said, life happens too. There have been plenty of very valid reasons for delays in the past. But what did they do when those happened? Silence for at least a month, then they say that there will be a delay, another silence and when the release drops we find out what happened from the release post.
For an indie dev that relies on the good will of it's audience, this is not a good method. Ideally they need to post at least once per week on their patreon and they have to be upfront about progress, issues, complications and plans. Not for us in this forum. For their patrons. From what i've seen here, even the people on their discord spend months in the dark and there are very few people who are willing to put up with that. Hreinn would make more money if they just improved their communication.
But well, what should they write? I sympathize with anyone who is bad at communication, because i am too. So what is the solution?
Make a plan.
For example, first week they finalize the details of the contents for the next patch and make a post about the rough plans.
On the second week Nomo draws a bare minimum sketch for the first scene so Monsinne can start planning out the dialogue and NDS checks if this quest will need anything special in technical terms like a new mechanic and prepares for it with templates.
On the third week they could start the real drawing, writing, coding, etc.
And so on.
If they are moving along this timeline then just write "doing well, see you guys on discord or next week", of something is late then they will already know and they can write "well, task x will take a few extra days, but the others are progressing well, so it shouldn't be a big problem. will keep you updated, bye".
These posts write themselves and everyone can make informed decisions about their stance on the development and not just wait months and pray.
I honestly don't know how much time is required for each of these jobs. I can't write, code or draw to save my life. But if i, an absolutely random nobody can point out that the modular scenes took an unexpectedly long time to do in 0.12 and some of it had to be cut and now 0.13 is supposed to have modular scenes in the bar too, so expect a delay and cut, then how come Hreinn got surprised again and didn't make this last announcement back in November or at the very least February.
I wrote that these smaller releases can be the right choice, but right away they are paired with the wrong execution.
Most of my suggestions would require 10-30 minutes each week to implement at most. I don't know if they can work more hours, but i do know that they could work smarter and it would benefit them at least as much as it would benefit us.
Same. Waiting just like you altho I hope it won't be abandoned like "Why Me". That game had so many potentials to be a great gameI care about the story of Sabia getting stuffed by all kinds of cocks.
- Dec 12, 2021
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my pal got engaged and married about the time this update came out , they are holding a bridal shower/gender reveal party sometime this month.
Just a reminder that the last update was about 8 months ago , you can littrally create a human being by the time they release their update.
Just a reminder that the last update was about 8 months ago , you can littrally create a human being by the time they release their update.
Well the way I see it, if they don't want to come off as milking this thing as much as possible, then they could simply change the subscription model to charge for releases only. Patreon has that option. That way they would get paid for the content they actually release, instead of the content they "promise" they are working on. With that method it wouldn't matter how slow their progress is or how much life gets in the way of development, because people would only be charged once the update is out. Seems more honest and less greedy that way.
But then they'd make less money. Of course it'd be a better method to avoid either actual milking or the appearance of milking, but money is king and they've gotten used to getting the monthly money infusion for minimal work.
I'll also say that a lot of people don't understand how the per update model works from the supporter side, so it gets some bad press from people who don't understand it. Most people think that the creator can label dozens of things as updates, and the supporters are forced to pay for each one. In reality the supporters are allowed to set a maximum payment per month for the per release model. So if you are supporting $5 per release, and want to limit it to $20 per month you can do that, and still get patreon access when the creator posts 6 updates in a month (this was a model some video creators used when I was looking at them years ago).
- Jul 12, 2017
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The thing with Hreinn is that whether they have contents to release or have no content to enjoy at all, they still continue payments, which may have been the cause of people telling that Hreinn is "milking" their patrons. (Do keep in mind that this case is not limited to Hreinn Games only)
They could've told people that for a specific amount of time, whether life happens or burnout, they'll be stopping the payment and working things out behind the screen and then resume the payment when they have enough confidence to bring something new to the table - I personally will find that okay, so, can't say much about everyone else.
Then again, I could be wrong on that end, so do correct me.
Well yeah, it would be less money. That is the point, though. The person above was saying they don't think the team is just milking the game. I was saying that there are things they could do to make it seem like they aren't. They have the option of passing up on the monthly pay and only taking money for actual content releases. They aren't taking that option. Thus I'd say it's normal for people to assume the team is in it primarily for the monthly cash grab.
I could be wrong on this, but I think if you pay someone money regardless of whether they release content or not, then they get complacent and lazy and lose motivation. Why put in effort when people are willing to reward you regardless of the outcome?
IMO patreon shouldn't exist as a "money is king" platform. It should exist to fund a teams vision and help them realize it. And I just don't get the feeling there is much of a vision/dream left in this project. There should be a drive to create an awesome project that you think people would pay to support. The number 1 goal shouldn't be to earn money. Maybe that's me being unrealistic/pessimistic, but it doesn't feel like the team enjoys working on this project anymore. It more feels like an obligation/something to do for the money. I think if they actually enjoyed it then they would spend more time on it and we would see more updates.
Don't get me wrong, I'd be much happier if they had regular updates instead of changing their payment method to only charge for releases. I wouldn't mind throwing some money at them again if that were the case. But giving them money in the current situation would just give me the feeling of funding someones habit of procrastination.
I have some pretty big visions, I don't get a patreon bc i don't yet have the tools to realize them
Well if you have the tools to release a start of it like many do I think its tragic that you wont. Now the world will never know what your game was like. People didnt get to experience it and in turn other creators may have been inspired to create even better games with similar concepts.
I dont defend people not living up to comittments here. Clearly people are disapointed in waiting and paying for progression that is never delivered. But since this happens in 95% of the cases here, its not the fault of individual content creators, its clearly a flawed model of patreon.
I agree that devs should ”pause” payments. But since so few do there might be other difficulties in this process. Perhaps they lose the patreons if they do as they forget about the game and move on? Another difficulty, if the payment is monthly and your releases arent monthly, its kind of weird to have payment switched on for four months and then switched off for a month and then turned back on again for a release. Then people ironically enough might feel even more snubbed for paying for months of no release.
I’ve also been reluctant to start releasing a game because Im afraid of the comittment expected of me and I dont really know what is reasonable. Some guy here suggested its nothing to work extra 20 h per week on a game but for most people that is completely unsustainable.
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- Sep 20, 2021
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Just as long as you provide regular updates and dont do something in bad faith then you shouldn't worry,if you are doing good work people will see,if you start going greedy and lazy or maybe even contemptious like some in this website like bo wei and henrein or how its spelled you should worry.
- Sep 20, 2021
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Update when? Hasnt it bleed enough?
- Jul 12, 2017
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A solid game made yesterday doesn't guarantee one's great future either if they remain the same, complacent to the task at hand, and thinking that the cards they've played still hold some relevance.
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If they lose Patrons, well, that's on them.
It may be difficult to decide to take a break, make a new plan/roadmap/what-have-you, and then decide with a big heart that it'd be best to pause payments until they think that the content is worth subscribing to again. But hey, if that renews their morale and overall enjoyment in making the content we longed for all these years, I'm not against the idea. ^^"
Also, what use for me (or anyone else) to subscribe to someone who does erotic content but then all I heard was radio silence? I'd be pretty pissed and thought I have been ripped off from behind my back.
Well it does hold some relevance. From what I can see Noxian Nights is free now. Thats another confusing aspect of Patreon, I guess many are paying them as sort of a "tipping jar" for the appreciation of having developed a previous game and allowing them to play it for free. If they stopped development and abandoned KoD at the time they realized they were in over their heads, they would not have gotten any royalties at all from the completed NN. That payment model rewards dragging out the dev process of a game since as long as you are assumed to still be working on a game people will still pay you. Actually finishing a game only has downsides.
Look at "Dual Family". The guy behind it could have just finished up the game by now with the last update but chose instead to go on a metaphysical LSD-type of storytelling trip that absolutely nobody would like just to be able to continue the game on patreon. The content he produced was just as time consuming to create as finishing up the story would have been Im sure, but there were zero incentatives for doing so and many to just drag things out.
And I know some sell the games on steam and similar, but they are just a ban waiting to happen.
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- Mar 6, 2017
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Hopefully Neve will have some scenes in the new update
- Apr 30, 2019
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Is this game abandoned cause there is barely any new content...