VN Ren'Py Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.2] [Hreinn Games]

[DreamingAway]

The difference is I feel like non con in KOD feels like actual non con whilst in noxian nights it didn't. Riven never really acted like the sex was the problem or that she didn't like it, that's why you could repeat almost any scene. And it differs in KOD because in KOD sabia supposedly does it to get ahead easier and quicker whilst in noxian nights riven just gave blow jobs for fun and had sex for fun too, all out in the open. Sure the bad end where riven gets defeated by a boss are for sure non con but it's never made a big deal out of, even the ones where she gets overwhelmed by the ghoul and dog is non con, but when she wakes up she doesn't even bring it up and is completely fine with it. Katarina later on also develops a taste for giant cock thanks to the minotaurs.

This feels like a bit of a stretch...

The guy who your forced to service to sleep in his house (which is 100% not even avoidable, you have zero agency as a player to avoid this in NN) feels far more non-con than choosing to go down a submissive route, purposefully shacking up with tekrok.. then using your submissive stat to sleep around. (You actually have a ton of player choice around being submissively sexual or not in KoD)

Reminder that Riven can go back and kill that guy as revenge.. why are you seeking revenge on him if it was "just for fun" from Riven's perspective?

I know this has gone completely down a rabbit hole, but I'm still not buying it..

 

[..a..]

would you re-upload the link please?

pw Ghnjv67ur

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[FatDick McSwingin]

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Thank you!

 

[nyqz]

Since this topic started, I already made a kind of re-estructure of the story and some gameplay changes. Its a lot to read BUT, I made this in, idk, an hour? I think this is a good way to shape the story back on track

"Rework of the dom/sub system + More ways to make lundils
The dom/sub number system is kinda forgot, so, we need to use it, but not for achieve hentai scenes in the main or sub quests, the grind of the numbers shouldn't reflect an impact in how good or bad an scene can be. Then, for what do we use it? To relax the main story part of the game, we need something to the player who doesn't want to read today and just want a relaxed jerk off and also to gain lundils in the game. In the Grok og Dar (the orc town) we could use
-Waitress (Tips for some gropping, and eventually sex, nudity, and also include de slutty outfit to the bar)
-Stores (Clothing store, Sabia shows outfit, gets groped, ripped the clothes, etc. For the others stores I need to think more, especifically the equipment store)
-Hellhound kennels (I need to say it? Lol)
-Maid service in the orc's tents (I mean, we already had a barmaid outfit and also repetitive scenes in orc tents, soooo *wink wink*)
-Tents because there is NO FUCKING WAY we can't use this in a porn game, I know originally Sierra think this was a good idea, and as much I respect her as fucking good writter, this is a bad decision
For the human town, for my surprise, there is a LOT of content to do, the slums and the bar already have scenes, but we can do more, as we already now
-Stables (Riven + Kat flashbacks, Sabia + Kat incoming PLEASE NOMO DO IT)
-Temple (Nun, we already saw Sabia as a nun, so, yeah, not a crazy idea)
-Training grounds (Sabia lose=Fuck, no need to complicate things)

All great ideas, most of which could be implemented with existing assets. I'd probably also add some kind of money-sink to the game (maybe you have to pay out some money to your troops every now and then to keep them loyal/improve their training) because the last couple of updates I've been stacking up money with nowhere to spend it.

Improve the captains influence in the orc town

At this point, Groknar is better dead (It was that his name? Can't even remember) so its time to make the vote about who will be the next leader of the orc town, depending on who will be, the story could warp one way or another

-Rockgrid -> We wil go to explore more human towns (Carchedon, we could continue the route of Barrin, influence in the Lundarian towns)
-Dajrab -> This option is, kinda complicated to schedule, I want to make it more of a free roam style but... I have already decided the free roam route, so, I thinked this route as a orc centred route, with the shamans with more influence than Dajrab itself, were we could see the impact of the Ornshaktar alliance or Ylva, it depending on your choices, with this I'm not saying that the routes of Rockgrid or Tekrok won't have shamans influence, just that THIS especifically route would have the shamans pushing for power as they see Dajrab a neutral leader, with no powerful allies except Sabia.
-Tekrok -> Ah, the CAOS option, with this one we will explore everything besides Lundar, we will prepare the scenario of a WAR. We will visit Catgirls campaments around the lands, to the Elves tribes and, of fuckign course, we will see the minotaurs, Naltan, where they have human slaves, yeah, this will be a FANTASTIC choice for Subia
-Sabia -> Well, this is a route than Sabia ALWAYS should be able to choose, why? Even if she takes the sub path, SHE IS A COMMANDER, fuck, she is the daugther of a powerfull mage and a fucking general of the army, the girl has it, she can liderate orcs, we already saw that when she trained her troops, well, now we can make it better with town management, where do you want more influence? Tents? Bar? Training Grounds? Who will you choose to be your allies? The captains who want power now that YOU are their leader? Neve? Jadk? This will be the literally description of free will, you can negotiate with force or sex, use your influence to win money, power or get laid, negotiate with foreign lands, try to make your allies and liderate this little orc town to get revenge or to find answers, as I said, is the player choice.

Kind of appealing, but also way too much work. Hrienn was struggling to juggle the branching factions even when updates were way more frequent and plot focused, implementing it in some sort of mod would be even less realistic.
IMO the captains would be improved if being allied to one of them didn't lock you out of any interaction with the others. For example if Sabia allies with Tekrok maybe he could send her off to make peace with Rockgrid because he doesn't want a feud at base camp distracting from his other plans. I do think giving Sabia more small quests around the camp to build up influence is a good idea. There were a fair number of those in the early patches, and they gave everything a lot more life. Adding some repeatable scenes associated with each faction would also be a pretty easy way to make them seem less lifeless.

 

[BootLicking Appreciator]

This feels like a bit of a stretch...

The guy who your forced to service to sleep in his house (which is 100% not even avoidable, you have zero agency as a player to avoid this in NN) feels far more non-con than choosing to go down a submissive route, purposefully shacking up with tekrok.. then using your submissive stat to sleep around. (You actually have a ton of player choice around being submissively sexual or not in KoD)

Reminder that Riven can go back and kill that guy as revenge.. why are you seeking revenge on him if it was "just for fun" from Riven's perspective?

I know this has gone completely down a rabbit hole, but I'm still not buying it..

LOL I literally forgot you can kill that guy later on (I never did personally) . I felt the same at the beginning (that it's heavy non con) but later on because you can repeat it infinitely and riven starts to like it more and more I changed my mind. But anyway I just wanted to say my opinion, I like riven as a protagonist way more and NN is a much better game than KOD currently.

 

[rockon123]

Reading this thread.. I see the major 2 categories of complaints are:

• Updates have significantly slowed down
• Art quality has degraded
  • The character's design changed
  • Scenes are only a single still image
  • Art reuse is rampant

Is this the reason that the community has largely turned on the game?
Are there any other hot topic issues people have?

I am very curious where the hate comes from. I often see people criticize the story but they are never specific 'why' the story / writing is bad. Usually they name drop Sierra Lee as the source of this games good writing and leave it at that.

Out of curiosity I sometimes follow up with those posters to see if they've also reviewed or posted in Sierra's other game threads (mainly once ever after which also seems to have gained some community critcism) and I don't usually find anything..

Genuinely curious on people's opinions around this game and why it's garnered so much hatred.

I honestly don't expect much dialogues and plots from a porn game.
Only concerned with theupdates ffrequency and content

 

[BootLicking Appreciator]

I am wondering where the story stands in terms of progression like middle or nearly to complete and how many updates till it is completed they took like 6 years and I feel the game is no near to be completed

The story is nowhere lol. We don't know how many more updates it'll take (better that way cuz the dev will lie anyway) and yes you're right, it's nowhere near being finished. My prediction is this game won't be finished but rather abandoned OR given a bad end to just end it quickly, when the money dries up of course.

 

[Deleted member 4110908]

Any hero for the latest bonus extras?

 

[BootLicking Appreciator]

This game was good or at least playable until the "whatever the hell happened" to chief from that point you don't know what the hell you are doing
Another thing I hated about "Sabia" is in the dom route she still accepts to be fucked and being taken advantage of they poorly written that route like she doesn't think that she is a warrior
For the ends( if there will be ones)I assume it will be copy paste from noxian nights ends

The dom/sub thing is completely dead and it doesn't rlly make any difference. She isn't a true Dom or true sub in either. As for the ending, they'll make 1 end IF they get to that point. Noxian nights had like 6-7 endings iirc and that was back when they weren't extremely lazy and a actual team. Plus riven was a whore, sabia isn't portrayed like that, it's always non con with her.

 

[DreamingAway]

BootLicking Appreciator
Spanking ajajjss

Do you think this game would of been better in RPGMaker like Noxian Nights?
Do you generally prefer RPGMaker or Renpy games?

 

[BootLicking Appreciator]

BootLicking Appreciator
Spanking ajajjss

Do you think this game would of been better in RPGMaker like Noxian Nights?
Do you generally prefer RPGMaker or Renpy games?

Well I personally prefer RPGMaker because I played a few games on that so that's why, but I don't think it would've turned out any different than it already is. It's all about the devs.

 

[DreamingAway]

Well I personally prefer RPGMaker because I played a few games on that so that's why

Is that the only reason?

If I stretched your arm back, could you give any reasons you prefer one over the other?

I do wonder if KoD is scrutinized more on it's writing / artworking because there is literally nothing else to judge it on.

 

[souldead341]

Is that the only reason?

If I stretched your arm back, could you give any reasons you prefer one over the other?

I do wonder if KoD is scrutinized more on it's writing / artworking because there is literally nothing else to judge it on.

Oh, most of its gameplay is pretty shitty too. The problem is that so much of the gameplay has been abandoned for years. There's an ok to decent turn based combat systems, which I don't recall being used at all for like 3-4 years. Then there's the raiding system which was used for all of 1 (IIRC, maybe 2) update. The raiding system was just bad IMO, but again it's been left out of updates for years now.

Then there's the time based quests, which have 2 (that I remember) total events on it (saving the one orc from being executed in the beginning of the game and saving the merchant lady in the human town). I'm not generally a fan of those, but they can be fine if done well. I don't think either are done well in KoD, especially the merchant quest since SO many people ask how to not get the bad end.

Beyond that it is just a CHYOA / branching visual novel.

 

[DreamingAway]

Oh, most of its gameplay is pretty shitty too. The problem is that so much of the gameplay has been abandoned for years. There's an ok to decent turn based combat systems, which I don't recall being used at all for like 3-4 years. Then there's the raiding system which was used for all of 1 (IIRC, maybe 2) update. The raiding system was just bad IMO, but again it's been left out of updates for years now.

Then there's the time based quests, which have 2 (that I remember) total events on it (saving the one orc from being executed in the beginning of the game and saving the merchant lady in the human town). I'm not generally a fan of those, but they can be fine if done well. I don't think either are done well in KoD, especially the merchant quest since SO many people ask how to not get the bad end.

Beyond that it is just a CHYOA / branching visual novel.

All of these things feel 'tacked-on'.

The combat matters a lot.. then stops being used at all.
The raid system matters for a bit, then stops being used at all.
The Outfit system matters for a bit, then stops being used largely.
The mini-games are all ad-hoc one-offs. (Reconstruct a map.. once.. how long did it take for this to be implemented and never used again..?)

I'm not really a huge fan of "renpy gameplay" - I actually enjoy Noxian Nights a lot as a JRPG, I enjoyed leveling up and fighting the secret bosses.

 

[Lemix]

I only like rpgm when there is a heavy emphasis on fightning and leveling, otherwise its always a waste, like you take any rpgm corruption game in modern setting without combat and wonder why the fuck it is rpgm, you just waste your time walking from map to map searching for events, it was nice in noxian nights because you could fight and the map wasnt that big, but i generally prefer renpy.
I feel like it would work in this game just fine, maybe it would even help it(combat system is build in so you dont have to waste time on developing it), i havent played in a while but if combat that you learn at the beggining does not matter later that kinda lame, would be cool if dom solved problems with combat and you could train further while sub solved stuff with sex(or sex "dyplomacy" to lift you troops spirits or somethin), dropping your systems that you worked hard on for months is a bad look and shows lack of vision.
I dont even understand what so complex about this plot, you had like 3 potential warchiefs or something, make it so you seduce one and align with them(like 1 dom 1 sub and 1 neutral or something), then you do some "unite clans/different races that do not like humans" or something plot and then you go to war and win/lose, make like a common ending to the main plot and then expand from the middle into different routes/add endings and post endings.
Claire's Quest has the same problem(basically abandoned main plot for side stuff long ago), but atleast scenes and writing quality is consistently good and you know it will never drop.

 

[CourierNPC]

Why is it lazy?

What constructive criticisms have you raised?
(Is there a post that sums them up? If you already wrote this I don't expect you to write it again, you can just link it.. or point me to it.)

What do you mean every scene is a "rapefest" - how is that different from Noxian Night scenes when you take certain story routes?

What would you consider "back on track" ?

Note to mods: I merely giving an example. Not a promotion. If this is deemed as a sign of me promoting someone else's work, do let me know and I'll delete this reply myself.

Thank you for understanding.
Sincerely,
CourierNPC

Spoiler: If you prefer the long version

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TL;DR:

What makes them lazy is that they didn't put in the effort to make the game enjoyable and went off-track for so long that they don't know what are they doing or what plans they've had in the long run, which contributes to the fact that most scenes nowadays is either hardest fucking with no context ever or, as some would say... "rapefest" or a combination of both that doesn't land anywhere.

I didn't last even a minute before it went limp because of the bad writing and the thought of "what the heck with this writing" suddenly popped up in my head

 

[CourierNPC]

I do wonder if KoD is scrutinized more on it's writing / artworking because there is literally nothing else to judge it on.

If your procrastinating-ass feel bad about yourself, this game has been in the works since 2017, and I got my degree just last month.

Says quite a lot about their progress, I'd say.

 

[BootLicking Appreciator]

Is that the only reason?

If I stretched your arm back, could you give any reasons you prefer one over the other?

I do wonder if KoD is scrutinized more on it's writing / artworking because there is literally nothing else to judge it on.

Noxian nights for me as the other person said just kinda felt super... Relaxing I guess. I get that it wasn't exactly a easy game but defeating a boss always made me feel nice. The combat system almost makes you forget it's a porn game lol. But that's about all the reasons I can think of, I don't really know much about these 2 programs, this one and renpy, although if NN didn't have bosses and fights it would definitely be way more boring and annoying to just walk around. Also I agree with the last part. They dumped many things in KOD after 2 patches but that's not something that hasn't been said many times before.

 

[DreamingAway]

Put this side-by-side with any of their recent releases, and you'll see what makes them lazy from the story's perspective. Meaning the former lead writer had a good idea of how to set up a scene and make them hotter with playful words and idioms and phrases or even sexual innuendos while the new writer, which is one of the current members of Hreinn Games, based off the writing from generic callsigns, shall we say (cum rag, whore, bitch, one of these words probably used quite a lot, too)

If the current writer is half-as-capable as their former writer, they would see the pictures Nomo sent and then try to craft/hone their inner creative writing by utilizing whatever they had on the picture itself, which also may contribute to the scene overall and your hard-on. Some jack off to writing, some jack off to pictures -- gotta balance both to get the best of both worlds.

Interesting. Thank you for taking the time to write all that.

Do you or anyone else know when Sierra left KoD and they officially stopped writing for the game?
I'd be interested in a more apples to apples comparison of early KoD writing vs late KoD writing.

(AKA - If I know when in the story they stopped writing I can go dig the dialogues out myself, maybe I'll just compare act 1 trial stuff to the last act released)

 

[CourierNPC]

Interesting. Thank you for taking the time to write all that.

Do you or anyone else know when Sierra left KoD and they officially stopped writing for the game?
I'd be interested in a more apples to apples comparison of early KoD writing vs late KoD writing.

(AKA - If I know when in the story they stopped writing I can go dig the dialogues out myself, maybe I'll just compare act 1 trial stuff to the last act released)

I mean, Sierra's departure marked the slow, painful downfall for KoD in general. First the writing went down the hill, then the art, now you'd be lucky not to get errors or game-breaking bugs down the line


And yes, everyone in this thread knew Sierra left. You could go back to page 300 and there'd be someone who mentioned Sierra at least once or twice. Or just use the search button and see how many Sierras were mentioned.