DreamingAway
Member
- Aug 24, 2022
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Someone in this thread mentioned that Sierra posted about it (on patreon?) but they never shared details on what she said specifically.
I'd be curious too.
I assume it was either:
A) Creative differences (not liking the story direction, emphasis on certain fetishes, something else[?])
B) Wanting to work on her own stuff instead
C) All of the above
RandomServant77
Newbie
- Jun 13, 2017
- 75
- 265
People reminiscing got me to check again the game's CG (on the Panda) and I realized.... you know, the rot set in early. Far earlier than I expected.
This is of course my opinion, and I'm nothing but a random retard that wasted far too much of his pathetic life on eroge, but it's striking how the decline in art, detail and composition was faster and longer than I expected. Let us take the first year of release, 2017 or so.
Let's take two random examples, the bar groping scene and the Vehlis elf slave sex scene. They're both detailed (even if nothing beats the very first Tent scenes or the first Neve scene) and the composition is good. We're here for the girls and the detail, and it works well. The elf slave is essential to the scene but the focus is entirely on Vehlis.
Let's skip two years.
Sabia starts having really weird proportions depending on the perspective, and the Orcs start getting more and more space and assuming weird Liefeldian bodies. Let's not even talk about the lack of finesse and artificial feeling of movement, like Rockgrid's mechanical patting of Sabia's head. Sabia starts having wildly inconsistent breast size.
Let's go a bit further, 2020-21.
Looks decent, doesn't it? Sabia again has variable breast size but at least she's the focus of the action (and seriously Nomo started drawing so much Orc ass directly in your face and recycling so much art it's insane, also all the characters started sharing body type to simplify art while before Neve, Sabia and Vehlis were clearly different). Check this again, just how big are those orcish hands?
2022, the last year where we got half-assed updates.
I rest my case. Compare this with the bar groping scene. This is awful. If we engage further, the repeatable scenes are a complete scandal and the top-down scenes a travesty. We get more orc ass than Sabia, everyone is poorly drawn with proportions that now vary not because they're different characters but because Nomo doesn't give a shit anymore.
There's still some decent scenes occasionally, but it's kind of interesting how the decline starts relatively quickly after Sierra goes away. I'm not saying that we should hop on the bandwagon of "Sierra leaving nuked the game" (even if it's true) but something got awry on the art quality fairly soon. All the best KoD art is right at the beginning.
And pardon for the spergin', it's like this is a real forum or something
This is of course my opinion, and I'm nothing but a random retard that wasted far too much of his pathetic life on eroge, but it's striking how the decline in art, detail and composition was faster and longer than I expected. Let us take the first year of release, 2017 or so.
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Let's take two random examples, the bar groping scene and the Vehlis elf slave sex scene. They're both detailed (even if nothing beats the very first Tent scenes or the first Neve scene) and the composition is good. We're here for the girls and the detail, and it works well. The elf slave is essential to the scene but the focus is entirely on Vehlis.
Let's skip two years.
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Sabia starts having really weird proportions depending on the perspective, and the Orcs start getting more and more space and assuming weird Liefeldian bodies. Let's not even talk about the lack of finesse and artificial feeling of movement, like Rockgrid's mechanical patting of Sabia's head. Sabia starts having wildly inconsistent breast size.
Let's go a bit further, 2020-21.
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Looks decent, doesn't it? Sabia again has variable breast size but at least she's the focus of the action (and seriously Nomo started drawing so much Orc ass directly in your face and recycling so much art it's insane, also all the characters started sharing body type to simplify art while before Neve, Sabia and Vehlis were clearly different). Check this again, just how big are those orcish hands?
2022, the last year where we got half-assed updates.
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I rest my case. Compare this with the bar groping scene. This is awful. If we engage further, the repeatable scenes are a complete scandal and the top-down scenes a travesty. We get more orc ass than Sabia, everyone is poorly drawn with proportions that now vary not because they're different characters but because Nomo doesn't give a shit anymore.
There's still some decent scenes occasionally, but it's kind of interesting how the decline starts relatively quickly after Sierra goes away. I'm not saying that we should hop on the bandwagon of "Sierra leaving nuked the game" (even if it's true) but something got awry on the art quality fairly soon. All the best KoD art is right at the beginning.
And pardon for the spergin', it's like this is a real forum or something
I really liked the art in noxian nights, and seeing how it has changed over the years fascinates me. It didn't had so much detail back then, but it was better, I don't know how to explain it. Its a shame that RPG maker quality is so ass.
Enigmanic
Active Member
- Nov 4, 2019
- 608
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I was a fly on the wall for those convos in Discord and Patreon. It was a number of things.
1 - Creative differences: Nomo and NDS felt that her story lines and world-building were too much. They didn't want to have to do so much work.
2 - Personal tastes:
A: Sierra wanted Sabia to have more opportunities for lesbian romances.
B: Sierra is not a fan of non-con.
She wrote non-con scenes for NN because Nomo and the fans wanted it. But she didn't agree with how much rape and gangbang content Nomo and NDS wanted in KoD.
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Xill
Engaged Member
- Jan 10, 2018
- 2,248
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Then she was rite. KoD submax is painfull to read
Sierra is just a consummate professional. People wishing she would somehow come back to this or revive the project on her own don't seem to understand the Hreinn stuff was more of just a job/collab to her.
Even for Noxian Nights her general feelings are more-or-less "I was asked to make a corruption game so I gave it a try". She is a good game designer and writer but she didn't have the creative control and wasn't interested in making run-of-the-mill corruption games, so with KoD she probably reached a point where she wasn't creatively invested in it and didn't really think the job was worth the hassle anymore.
I don't think SL is super opposed to non-con as long as it has narrative relevance, she just won't write it as a random meaningless scene for the player to beat off to. The amount of people that complained back in the day about how there wasn't an option to let Sabia be groped/raped by the random orcs during her waitress job must have been exhausting.
Anyway, with the game now officially dead, the best hope is for an eventual spiritual successor/remake. I don't think anything like that will come from Sierra though, at most I could only see it as very loosely related if she decides to make a project centered around a female protagonist ascending to power through cunning and manipulation, using sex as a weapon, etc etc.
Even for Noxian Nights her general feelings are more-or-less "I was asked to make a corruption game so I gave it a try". She is a good game designer and writer but she didn't have the creative control and wasn't interested in making run-of-the-mill corruption games, so with KoD she probably reached a point where she wasn't creatively invested in it and didn't really think the job was worth the hassle anymore.
I don't think SL is super opposed to non-con as long as it has narrative relevance, she just won't write it as a random meaningless scene for the player to beat off to. The amount of people that complained back in the day about how there wasn't an option to let Sabia be groped/raped by the random orcs during her waitress job must have been exhausting.
Anyway, with the game now officially dead, the best hope is for an eventual spiritual successor/remake. I don't think anything like that will come from Sierra though, at most I could only see it as very loosely related if she decides to make a project centered around a female protagonist ascending to power through cunning and manipulation, using sex as a weapon, etc etc.
DreamingAway
Member
- Aug 24, 2022
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Sierra did mention recently she is looking for a game to collab with on but I doubt this would be an option especially since Nomo is AWOL / unreliable right now.
As you said Sierra really does treat this as a job and is quite professional about it. She meets commitments and supports her products and treats her customers like customers, she's unlikely to collab on a shit show like this.
So KoD fans only salvation is AI slop.
Xill
Engaged Member
- Jan 10, 2018
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Enigmanic
Active Member
- Nov 4, 2019
- 608
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After five years of running multiple erotic online roleplaying campaigns, I would kill to be able to write for a game like KoD. If you folks find a talented artist and a coder, I'd happily start it off. I'd even write for the first 3 months for free.
Thanks for sharing with us! Can't believe Sierra was for more hot lesbian romances and Nomo was against it, no NevexSabia for us.
Enigmanic
Active Member
- Nov 4, 2019
- 608
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Yes, it's true. I stopped pledging after several years and left the Discord after Nomo and I got into a heated argument in DM's.
When I chewed him out about all the content they abandoned and then complained about Sierra leaving, he actually told me that Sierra had wanted Sabia to mostly be a lesbian who only has sex with men when it's to her advantage.
HikkiXxX
Newbie
- May 25, 2018
- 55
- 210
It would be a waste to only see Sabia to only lesbian, and, to be honest, Nomo lied to you, I mean, Monsinne wanted to make Sabia X Amelia, and also Sabia x Neve scenes... and the redhead catgirl. My guess? Nomo lost his passion, understandable, just a shame, the game (mostly the art) had potential, but in big 2025 the game should be already complete. AI is bad so, maybe another artist can revive this game (sorry if my english is bad, hopefully everybody can understand what I wrote)
Vast majority of them are low effort stuff.
Well... If its a job and she open to something new, why not give it a shot? Fan of the game can even like raise a kick-start fund to show commitment. Better to try and lose, rather then just to accept defeat. Even if it would be spiritual succesor rather then KoD itself.
And even if she refuse -- well, Enigmatic vouched to be ready. We can use rised kick-started fund for that reboot instead. I'm not a coder, but ready to try to help with some writing or support materials if necessary (like to draw map for setting or something). And even if there is no artist, well, at very least we can have AI. It can be at least work as placeholder until somebody would not be interested in rebooted project. Thus, only question would be a coder, really.
I would prefer story about rising-to-power lesbian as mentioned above far better than another slop of eroge by plot.I dont even care and just de-install if there is nothing to be invested in.
Non-con... well, why not let it be optional as instrument sometimes (which makes in con actually?..), but I agree, it should be sensible to a plot.
Thus essentially, I believe everyone now understood, that another bimbofied protagonist is rather detriment to the game then supporting wet eroge.
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RandomServant77
Newbie
- Jun 13, 2017
- 75
- 265
That's insanity considering the amount of plotlines and random characters that got added later on. Entire chunk of plot where haphazardly injected then forgotten. The basic plotline of KoD at the beginning was "Sabia gets revenge by manipulating orcs and possibly other survivors of Fantasy Genocide". You could have reliably closed it in the orc camp if you wanted to.
I'd say it would have been interesting. Sierra does use the "sex as control" theme sometimes, but I'd wonder if it would not have done wonders for the degenerating dominance/submission theme. For a Dominant Sabia you get her lesbian harem and sex with males as a bargaining chip/control method (with femdom themes for those who like 'em) and Submissive Sabia isn't a dumb bimbo but grows to enjoy the act with men beyond mere manipulation.
I mean, for eroge standard the plotline of a manipulative lesbian seeking revenge by maneuvering men isn't completely novel, but it's at least intriguing compared to orc cumdumpster all day every day.
Xill
Engaged Member
- Jan 10, 2018
- 2,248
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I wish we'd get a dominant Sabia that likes to be under a massive orc as he ravages her all night long while she encourages him.