VN Ren'Py Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.2] [Hreinn Games]

[RandomServant77]

I just wanted to see more of Sabia AND Neve.

If we're discussing the development and the plot, KoD suffered truly a lot.

The initial setup was rather clear: Sabia was maneuvering from a relative position of weakness in the Orcish world and Neve was clearly shown as an incredibly dangerous person, that could help but the risks were there (and it didn't help that Sabia was directly connected to a genocidal kingdom that helped, well, kill off a shitton of Neve's relatives). Sabia had agency and space to act, and you had several orc options (traditionalists or innovators) and allies. At the same time we got glimpses of what his mother/sister were planning.

Then it... became weird. I can pinpoint the moment where I kinda stopped understanding why some characters existed at the introduction of the catgirls, they served no purpose and were flat-out puzzling. Then it was a cavalcade of almost random characters and plot points that never got properly resolved, merely shelved and ignored.

And then the Monsinne era started the Sabia got first bimbo-ified and then became a orc cumrag imprisoned in an endless repetition of recycled art and bad ends. The entire Dominant/Submissive system collapsed on itself as Sabia was reduced to a worthless dumbass that nonetheless managed to make the plot crawl forward somehow.

she loves and values game mechanisms too much for porn games

I'd dare to say that Sierra does RPGs with erotic elements. The porn is there, of course, but it's an extra and a hook for the world and character-building Sierra is interested in. You can see if clearly in KoD: from politics/mechanics/Choices&consequences to endless orc ass in your face when she abandoned ship.

I wonder if Sierra will ever comment about KoD or she's too much reserved and respectful to tell us the juicy details.

 

[Lateralus1337]

Anyone has a full gallery? I played this years ago so my save is way out of date.
I tried using unlock methods but it just didn't work for me. No idea why.

 

[Brother Penetrātus]

Thanks random person for sharing your opinions.

If you have problems with other people reacting to the stupid shit you post on publicly accessible forums,
then I might have a book recommendation that could help you with this issue:

 

[DreamingAway]

If you have problems with other people reacting to the stupid shit you post on publicly accessible forums,
then I might have a book recommendation that could help you with this issue:

Lol K.

 

[Retromancer]

If we're discussing the development and the plot, KoD suffered truly a lot.

The initial setup was rather clear: Sabia was maneuvering from a relative position of weakness in the Orcish world and Neve was clearly shown as an incredibly dangerous person, that could help but the risks were there (and it didn't help that Sabia was directly connected to a genocidal kingdom that helped, well, kill off a shitton of Neve's relatives). Sabia had agency and space to act, and you had several orc options (traditionalists or innovators) and allies. At the same time we got glimpses of what his mother/sister were planning.

Then it... became weird. I can pinpoint the moment where I kinda stopped understanding why some characters existed at the introduction of the catgirls, they served no purpose and were flat-out puzzling. Then it was a cavalcade of almost random characters and plot points that never got properly resolved, merely shelved and ignored.

And then the Monsinne era started the Sabia got first bimbo-ified and then became a orc cumrag imprisoned in an endless repetition of recycled art and bad ends. The entire Dominant/Submissive system collapsed on itself as Sabia was reduced to a worthless dumbass that nonetheless managed to make the plot crawl forward somehow.



I'd dare to say that Sierra does RPGs with erotic elements. The porn is there, of course, but it's an extra and a hook for the world and character-building Sierra is interested in. You can see if clearly in KoD: from politics/mechanics/Choices&consequences to endless orc ass in your face when she abandoned ship.

I wonder if Sierra will ever comment about KoD or she's too much reserved and respectful to tell us the juicy details.

My personal impression from her was that she felt Nomo was too unprofessional. This is not from any direct correspondence or anything but reading between the lines on some of her posts (I followed her Patreon for quite a bit) not necessarily about KoD but general game creation. And it made sense, Noxian Nights was absolutely fantastic (it's what got me interested in Sierra and Nomo both in the first place) and that was a tightly run ship with good game mechanics, interesting story play, great art, decent update times etc. This was why I was so, so hyped for KoD. But man the wheels started to fall off pretty quick, and it's no wonder Sierra left so early

 

[Troqu]

This was why I was so, so hyped for KoD. But man the wheels started to fall off pretty quick, and it's no wonder Sierra left so early

Once I realized that everything I loved about Noxian Nights and early KoD was Sierra and that the art, which is firmly in the realm of good but far from amazing, was the only thing that would be remaining on KoD I knew my feelings on it personally.

 

[Retromancer]

Once I realized that everything I loved about Noxian Nights and early KoD was Sierra and that the art, which is firmly in the realm of good but far from amazing, was the only thing that would be remaining on KoD I knew my feelings on it personally.

I can't remember when I stopped supporting the game - I was a 15$ a month supporter at one point! But it was before Sierra officially left. It was pretty clear what was happening. I will defend the art as being better than good. Not the later Kod stuff but the early stuff. It feels like a lifetime ago

 

[Retromancer]

As much as I hate this game in its current state it's just sad to have watched it die of leprosy.

 

[Xill]

They don't want AI "art" (nor does anyone else).

You'd be surprised considering how many AI art games have been appearing here lately and how many of them are quite popular.

 

[Verizel]

You'd be surprised considering how many AI art games have been appearing here lately and how many of them are quite popular.

Yeah, its not bad per se, and I would forever prefer Sierra as maker of game with AI CG rather than Nomo and AI text and script. And considering how bad artwork get already... yeah, this or another artist. But at leastwith AI you can be sure that he wouldnt be unprofessional.

Like really, I would rather join petition to beg Sierra to return to this project, even if she would be doing everything from scratch. They was doing really good money with this game in addition to main patreon of Sierra, and considering that she is getting close to the end of her Magnum Opus, well, maybe there is a chance?

 

[KGARrokh]

You'd be surprised considering how many AI art games have been appearing here lately and how many of them are quite popular.

AI art is pretty good (not so bad at least), i'm sure in it, because i saw a lot of good AI works from other artists and from myself. It has some problems is lack of consistency on series of images; hands; faces (especially on full body shots or distant shots); more than one character on image)
Why they want to use same images over and over again, if they can, at least, slightly change them without strong deviation from original image or style. Also it is possible to finish some unfinished artworks.

 

[Brother Penetrātus]

You'd be surprised considering how many AI art games have been appearing here lately and how many of them are quite popular.

I wasn't talking about other games.

 

[Alimtheir]

1. Monsinne isn't on f95.
2. They don't want AI "art" (nor does anyone else).
3. This would not solve the other 2 issues heehatatt mentioned just one post above yours.

2. I take AI Art

 

[DreamingAway]

I wonder if Sierra will ever comment about KoD or she's too much reserved and respectful to tell us the juicy details.

Someone in this thread mentioned that Sierra posted about it (on patreon?) but they never shared details on what she said specifically.

I'd be curious too.

I assume it was either:

A) Creative differences (not liking the story direction, emphasis on certain fetishes, something else[?])
B) Wanting to work on her own stuff instead
C) All of the above

 

[RandomServant77]

People reminiscing got me to check again the game's CG (on the Panda) and I realized.... you know, the rot set in early. Far earlier than I expected.

This is of course my opinion, and I'm nothing but a random retard that wasted far too much of his pathetic life on eroge, but it's striking how the decline in art, detail and composition was faster and longer than I expected. Let us take the first year of release, 2017 or so.

Spoiler

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Let's take two random examples, the bar groping scene and the Vehlis elf slave sex scene. They're both detailed (even if nothing beats the very first Tent scenes or the first Neve scene) and the composition is good. We're here for the girls and the detail, and it works well. The elf slave is essential to the scene but the focus is entirely on Vehlis.

Let's skip two years.

Spoiler

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Sabia starts having really weird proportions depending on the perspective, and the Orcs start getting more and more space and assuming weird Liefeldian bodies. Let's not even talk about the lack of finesse and artificial feeling of movement, like Rockgrid's mechanical patting of Sabia's head. Sabia starts having wildly inconsistent breast size.

Let's go a bit further, 2020-21.

Spoiler

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Looks decent, doesn't it? Sabia again has variable breast size but at least she's the focus of the action (and seriously Nomo started drawing so much Orc ass directly in your face and recycling so much art it's insane, also all the characters started sharing body type to simplify art while before Neve, Sabia and Vehlis were clearly different). Check this again, just how big are those orcish hands?

2022, the last year where we got half-assed updates.

Spoiler

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I rest my case. Compare this with the bar groping scene. This is awful. If we engage further, the repeatable scenes are a complete scandal and the top-down scenes a travesty. We get more orc ass than Sabia, everyone is poorly drawn with proportions that now vary not because they're different characters but because Nomo doesn't give a shit anymore.

There's still some decent scenes occasionally, but it's kind of interesting how the decline starts relatively quickly after Sierra goes away. I'm not saying that we should hop on the bandwagon of "Sierra leaving nuked the game" (even if it's true) but something got awry on the art quality fairly soon. All the best KoD art is right at the beginning.

And pardon for the spergin', it's like this is a real forum or something

 

[Falso]

People reminiscing got me to check again the game's CG (on the Panda) and I realized.... you know, the rot set in early. Far earlier than I expected.

This is of course my opinion, and I'm nothing but a random retard that wasted far too much of his pathetic life on eroge, but it's striking how the decline in art, detail and composition was faster and longer than I expected. Let us take the first year of release, 2017 or so.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Let's take two random examples, the bar groping scene and the Vehlis elf slave sex scene. They're both detailed (even if nothing beats the very first Tent scenes or the first Neve scene) and the composition is good. We're here for the girls and the detail, and it works well. The elf slave is essential to the scene but the focus is entirely on Vehlis.

Let's skip two years.

Spoiler

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Sabia starts having really weird proportions depending on the perspective, and the Orcs start getting more and more space and assuming weird Liefeldian bodies. Let's not even talk about the lack of finesse and artificial feeling of movement, like Rockgrid's mechanical patting of Sabia's head. Sabia starts having wildly inconsistent breast size.

Let's go a bit further, 2020-21.

Spoiler

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Looks decent, doesn't it? Sabia again has variable breast size but at least she's the focus of the action (and seriously Nomo started drawing so much Orc ass directly in your face and recycling so much art it's insane, also all the characters started sharing body type to simplify art while before Neve, Sabia and Vehlis were clearly different). Check this again, just how big are those orcish hands?

2022, the last year where we got half-assed updates.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I rest my case. Compare this with the bar groping scene. This is awful. If we engage further, the repeatable scenes are a complete scandal and the top-down scenes a travesty. We get more orc ass than Sabia, everyone is poorly drawn with proportions that now vary not because they're different characters but because Nomo doesn't give a shit anymore.

There's still some decent scenes occasionally, but it's kind of interesting how the decline starts relatively quickly after Sierra goes away. I'm not saying that we should hop on the bandwagon of "Sierra leaving nuked the game" (even if it's true) but something got awry on the art quality fairly soon. All the best KoD art is right at the beginning.

And pardon for the spergin', it's like this is a real forum or something

I really liked the art in noxian nights, and seeing how it has changed over the years fascinates me. It didn't had so much detail back then, but it was better, I don't know how to explain it. Its a shame that RPG maker quality is so ass.

 

[Enigmanic]

Someone in this thread mentioned that Sierra posted about it (on patreon?) but they never shared details on what she said specifically.

I'd be curious too.

I assume it was either:

A) Creative differences (not liking the story direction, emphasis on certain fetishes, something else[?])
B) Wanting to work on her own stuff instead
C) All of the above

I was a fly on the wall for those convos in Discord and Patreon. It was a number of things.

1 - Creative differences: Nomo and NDS felt that her story lines and world-building were too much. They didn't want to have to do so much work.

2 - Personal tastes:
A: Sierra wanted Sabia to have more opportunities for lesbian romances.
B: Sierra is not a fan of non-con.
She wrote non-con scenes for NN because Nomo and the fans wanted it. But she didn't agree with how much rape and gangbang content Nomo and NDS wanted in KoD.

 

[Xill]

They didn't want to have to do so much work.

So now they're doing nothing instead.

 

[Freebalos]

You'd be surprised considering how many AI art games have been appearing here lately and how many of them are quite popular.

true and they are not even that bad

 

[Alimtheir]

2 - Personal tastes:
A: Sierra wanted Sabia to have more opportunities for lesbian romances.
B: Sierra is not a fan of non-con.
She wrote non-con scenes for NN because Nomo and the fans wanted it. But she didn't agree with how much rape and gangbang content Nomo and NDS wanted in KoD.

Then she was rite. KoD submax is painfull to read