VN Ren'Py Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.2] [Hreinn Games]

[Great730]

Sometimes it seems to me that the developers are just waiting until they start to be completely lowered, so to speak, they sit on a powder keg and drag out time, and as soon as the wick burns out and a second later an explosion in the form of another dozen unsubscriptions from Patreon throws a bucket of dirty water, a low-quality update with the transferred tents, I was on the nomo streams and I can say that the scenes themselves he he doesn 't draw for a long time , so why does it take so much time ?

 

[BigBiggieBig]

so why does it take so much time ?

It's highly unlikely that it's the art that's delaying the updates. The artpacks themselves are quite massive, meaning that Nomo has enough time and then some to draw additional scenes and shit of that sort. The writing is too mediocre to take more than a couple of hours per update, so I doubt it's that.

IMO it's likely the coding that's the issue, whoever is in charge of coding is just bottlenecking the entire development process by being slow or trying to tackle too many things at once. I'm no gamedev, so I can't say for certain, but it does seem that way to me, judging by everything surrounding this game.

 

[Tripfriend]

Renpy is a piece of shit to code, especially with early branching choices. More choices, more bugs, more time spent wondering what the hell is wrong. There's a reason why vns built in that engine tend to lock their routes fairly early on, I always knew trying to build a rpg in that engine would be a nightmare.

 

[BigBiggieBig]

Why don't they stop the art pack thing and put its time in the main game...I mean it's minor thing after all

It's more like, the artist finishes his work early enough that he can dedicate work to things like optional scenes that may or not make it into the game, like he has the luxury of time on his side.

Again, this is all my personal observation, I could be wrong, but it seems fairly obvious to me that Nomo isn't the one causing the delays or really has any issues meeting deadlines. My post was trying to say that coding is the likely culprit behind the delays, which produce so much downtime that the artist ends up making more and more CGs for the artpack that can't make it into the game due to the restrictions of coding

Renpy is a piece of shit to code, especially with early branching choices. More choices, more bugs, more time spent wondering what the hell is wrong. There's a reason why vns built in that engine tend to lock their routes fairly early on, I always knew trying to build a rpg in that engine would be a nightmare.

So it's a bad choice for engine? Hreinn make a decent chunk off of patreon bux, wouldn't they be able to hire an additional, part-time coder or someone who works in the background converting the game into a different engine so that future development isn't as slow? Feels like digging one's own grave for no reason.

 

[Great730]

It's more like, the artist finishes his work early enough that he can dedicate work to things like optional scenes that may or not make it into the game, like he has the luxury of time on his side.

Again, this is all my personal observation, I could be wrong, but it seems fairly obvious to me that Nomo isn't the one causing the delays or really has any issues meeting deadlines. My post was trying to say that coding is the likely culprit behind the delays, which produce so much downtime that the artist ends up making more and more CGs for the artpack that can't make it into the game due to the restrictions of coding




So it's a bad choice for engine? Hreinn make a decent chunk off of patreon bux, wouldn't they be able to hire an additional, part-time coder or someone who works in the background converting the game into a different engine so that future development isn't as slow? Feels like digging one's own grave for no reason.

I would not say that they are good with money, the number of their cartridges is 738, this is not so much before there were 900 of them at the same Claire quest, the number of cartridges is 3000, although the art of the scenes, as for me, is not much different from each other in advance, I'm talking about the old art and not about the new shit with tents Hreinn could earn the same amount if the game had a good potential, Sabia could gather allies for the sake of her revenge, the village of minotaurs, the sparkling forest of elves, various alliances with dark personalities, evil wizards, various powerful monsters like lamia basilisk manticore, which kia is except for wings, but no, why do we need an interesting diverse dangerous world with beautiful characters, we will stay in a fucking tent to being with green men has nothing against orcs, but they are boring, there is no variety of teasing at all, it's just a pity that they waste their talents on trifles

 

[BigBiggieBig]

I would not say that they are good with money, the number of their cartridges is 738, this is not so much before there were 900 of them at the same Claire quest, the number of cartridges is 3000, although the art of the scenes, as for me, is not much different from each other in advance, I'm talking about the old art and not about the new shit with tents Hreinn could earn the same amount if the game had a good potential, Sabia could gather allies for the sake of her revenge, the village of minotaurs, the sparkling forest of elves, various alliances with dark personalities, evil wizards, various powerful monsters like lamia basilisk manticore, which kia is except for wings, but no, why do we need an interesting diverse dangerous world with beautiful characters, we will stay in a fucking tent to being with green men has nothing against orcs, but they are boring, there is no variety of teasing at all, it's just a pity that they waste their talents on trifles

I wouldn't say they are wasting their talent on 'trifles'...because they are wasting their talent on nothing, the game is progressing at an abysmal pace, months and months with no progress only for an update with some repeated CGs and sub-par text. The loss of 'cartridges' (Which I assume means patrons) is something they brought onto themselves by pissing away all the goodwill they earned via Noxian Nights, you can only stall for so long before the sane people stop giving you their money...Unless you're making Cloud Meadow.

Again, a lot of fans of this game share the same sentiment of disappointment at how Hreinn have utterly pissed away this game's potential with laziness and incompetence. Even if they aren't earning that much via Patreon these days compared to before (Whose fault is that?), they still make a lot more than other devs who have produced/are producing games of similar, if not better quality.

They just happened to have struck gold with Nomo's art and the world/setting, which I'm not sure how much influence Sierra had over.

I'm actually almost looking forward to the day they come out and say they're taking a hiatus to port the game to a different engine, or perhaps say they are scrapping the project because coding has gotten too complicated.

 

[sani45]

Enjoy! Everything is up to date. As soon on OP gets update I am removing the links. rf96 Please update OP?

Mega

Spoiler: Art Pack

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Mega

Spoiler: CG Bonus Scenes

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Mega

Spoiler: Variant Pack

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And how to get bonus scenes

 

[Great730]

You must be registered to see the links

перейти по этой ссылке скачать распаковать и начать новую игру там есть указанные выше сцены

 

[CourierNPC]

So it's a bad choice for engine? Hreinn make a decent chunk off of patreon bux, wouldn't they be able to hire an additional, part-time coder or someone who works in the background converting the game into a different engine so that future development isn't as slow? Feels like digging one's own grave for no reason.

I heard that Ren'Py is pretty difficult to tame the more the game becomes non-linear VN, while on the other end of the spectrum, RPGM, has little-to-no coding basis and you can make your own story with its abundance of pre-made assets and it'll be ready for marketing half-way down the development

For example: S.H.E.L.T.E.R. is made in Ren'Py and the developers already locked out the route right off the bat, the romance or the dom route depending on how you behave on other ladies.

Fallen: Makina and the City of Ruins is made with RPGM. The gameplay is very simple but it made branching choice a little easier to tame because the artist can utilize repeatables with one or two variants of a scene and just rewrite it for the "ending" phase of the game and you could use the pre-made assets to create NPCs, maybe lighten the load on artist's back and also the developers can think about other gameplay aspects while waiting for the artist to finish their work(s)

Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[BigBiggieBig]

I heard that Ren'Py is pretty difficult to tame the more the game becomes non-linear VN, while on the other end of the spectrum, RPGM, has little-to-no coding basis and you can make your own story with its abundance of pre-made assets and it'll be ready for marketing half-way down the development

For example: S.H.E.L.T.E.R. is made in Ren'Py and the developers already locked out the route right off the bat, the romance or the dom route depending on how you behave on other ladies.

Fallen: Makina and the City of Ruins is made with RPGM. The gameplay is very simple but it made branching choice a little easier to tame because the artist can utilize repeatables with one or two variants of a scene and just rewrite it for the "ending" phase of the game and you could use the pre-made assets to create NPCs, maybe lighten the load on artist's back and also the developers can think about other gameplay aspects while waiting for the artist to finish their work(s)

Correct me if I'm wrong

You'd think Hreinn would know that before diving in. Or did they know but chose to go for it anyway? Who knows.

 

[Enigmanic]

You'd think Hreinn would know that before diving in. Or did they know but choose to go for it anyway? Who knows.

Nomo initially claimed it would be easier to make the game in Ren'Py.

 

[Serena]

I heard that Ren'Py is pretty difficult to tame the more the game becomes non-linear VN, while on the other end of the spectrum, RPGM, has little-to-no coding basis and you can make your own story with its abundance of pre-made assets and it'll be ready for marketing half-way down the development

For example: S.H.E.L.T.E.R. is made in Ren'Py and the developers already locked out the route right off the bat, the romance or the dom route depending on how you behave on other ladies.

Fallen: Makina and the City of Ruins is made with RPGM. The gameplay is very simple but it made branching choice a little easier to tame because the artist can utilize repeatables with one or two variants of a scene and just rewrite it for the "ending" phase of the game and you could use the pre-made assets to create NPCs, maybe lighten the load on artist's back and also the developers can think about other gameplay aspects while waiting for the artist to finish their work(s)

Correct me if I'm wrong

Renpy is a piece of shit to code, especially with early branching choices. More choices, more bugs, more time spent wondering what the hell is wrong. There's a reason why vns built in that engine tend to lock their routes fairly early on, I always knew trying to build a rpg in that engine would be a nightmare.

Yep this is true. Ever VN I have played/ come across that is made in Renpy has it's routes locked because if the routes are not locked it causes errors as mentioned by Trip Friend.
It uses python as a basis and I have never coded in Renpy but I have coded in Python however a friend told me that it requires a lot of work (example careful utilization of a selection structure/control structure) to be able to pull off what Hreinn are trying to pull of. I also honestly think that it is the coding part that is causing delays and not the art (I am 100% sure about this. Nomo has made so much shit already that just needs to be implemented in the game but is not getting implemented) or writing (I don't want to shit on the writer as most people have already done this. I tried to write a stage performance once in high school and I know how difficult that was, I nearly sucked at it and had many writers block, but yeah this is not great writing). Basically the game that they envisioned and the engine that they chose is not that a great mix. It works well for the artist but for the coder something like this can become a nightmare. Like when I have to find an errors in a code, it can take from a second to minutes to hours sometimes and especially if the error is logical one or runtime one and if the error is in a code that exceeds 2000+ lines quota (which every program that is meant for the public does)
The best engine as far as I know that even I have used somewhat for a game that has multiple choices is RPGVM/ACE etc.
It makes it super easy to branch route but it also has it's downfalls.

 

[BigBiggieBig]

The best engine as far as I know that even I have used somewhat for a game that has multiple choices is RPGVM/ACE etc.
It makes it super easy to branch route but it also has it's downfalls.

Nice to get multiple inputs from people who seem to know what they're talking about. To me, it just seems like more incompetence regarding the choice of engine, but perhaps they saw flaws in the other engines that hindered their 'vision' for the game. But I don't think there's much vision when it took over five years to get to V0.13.

 

[CourierNPC]

To me, it just seems like more incompetence regarding the choice of engine, but perhaps they saw flaws in the other engines that hindered their 'vision' for the game

I mean, when your artist says that Ren'Py is the easier engine to make a game with branching routes right away without researching more on the engine itself, you know you fucked up big time.

But if I were Ndsferarri, I'd demand RPGM any day of the week 'cause it has a lot of assets to use (and even to expand upon), and little-to-no coding is required at the cost of very simplistic gameplay mechanics.

 

[BigBiggieBig]

I mean, when your artist says that Ren'Py is the easier engine to make a game with branching routes right away without researching more on the engine itself, you know you fucked up big time.

But if I were Ndsferarri, I'd demand RPGM any day of the week 'cause it has a lot of assets to use (and even to expand upon), and little-to-no coding is required at the cost of very simplistic gameplay mechanics.

As if the game in its current state has complex gameplay mechanics? The raiding system got dumped, combat is easily handled by spamming attack or silver slash, and then you have the dialogue choices, there really isn't all that to it in terms of complexity.

 

[Xill]

I don't think Ren'Py is the issue here. Wouldn't explain why there's devs that make games on it with 10 times more choices than this game but release an update once a month or two.

 

[Great730]

I don't think Ren'Py is the issue here. Wouldn't explain why there's devs that make games on it with 10 times more choices than this game but release an update once a month or two.

Tell me who these developers are, all of whom I follow are updating minumum for 4 or more months, such as
Midnight paradise
Pale carnations
Claire quest
Rise of the white flower
Dilmur well, the Kingdom of deception is here

 

[bitchass92]

Every 5 pages or so this becomes the conversation over the past few years. We honestly need file tabs for "What happened to Sierra Lee?" "Why Ren'py over RPG Maker?" "Help! I'm stuck on XYZ*!" " Post most recent save/gallery?" "Any new updates?" I mean I get it, aint shit else to talk about.

 

[Xill]

Tell me who these developers are, all of whom I follow are updating minumum for 4 or more months, such as
Midnight paradise
Pale carnations
Claire quest
Rise of the white flower
Dilmur well, the Kingdom of deception is here

I haven't seen Ren'Py developers who delivers an "actual" content in 2 months minimum 4-5 max 6 months and it can be more than that depending how many developers work on the project or unexpected delays but sure not because of laziness

Check this game out.

Project Myriam

It has so many choices which shape the character in pretty much any way you want.

There's also this which is more like KoD in terms of it being a sandbox with multiple routes.

Confined with Goddesses

And this one too, and ye it's Skyrim models but we're not talking about the art here.

Tara's Liberation or Alexia's Return

None of these are kinetic novels though.

 

[Serena]

I don't think Ren'Py is the issue here. Wouldn't explain why there's devs that make games on it with 10 times more choices than this game but release an update once a month or two.

Check this game out.

Project Myriam

It has so many choices which shape the character in pretty much any way you want.

There's also this which is more like KoD in terms of it being a sandbox with multiple routes.

Confined with Goddesses

And this one too, and ye it's Skyrim models but we're not talking about the art here.

Tara's Liberation or Alexia's Return

None of these are kinetic novels though.

I suppose I wasn't able to make it clear. Let me be try to clarify things. I believe I said that it was very difficult meaning people can pull it off if they are willing to put time in it and are experienced.
The basis of coding really lies in the coders heart (sounds nerdy and cheesy but it is true), if you want to do it you will and if you don't want to or you thinking like I will do it later and then later, mmmm yeah like this and that then you really can't code. When I started coding our class was basically learning simple programs from 10-20 lines like simple addition and shit. When I got 100% sure that I knew the concept that was being presented I made programs that exceeded 100 lines. I had written a program that was basically like a service providers interface in the first-second semester of my uni. It exceeded 400 lines and I had still planned to make it better, and maybe even shrink it using OOP but I never did because I got lazy you can say thinking that I have the basic concept and the program works so fuck this let's move on (you see that program is still like that incomplete the basic functionality exists like you can return to the main menu from anywhere but only the first menu is actually finished and the rest of the menus are just nothing.). Like I said before I haven't used Renpy but I have used Python and Python supports OOP (Object oriented programming) in which you can basically make class and objects and functions according to that class (for simpler understanding) this makes coding very easy and I mean very easy. Most of my friends that I know code like this, I don't know if games are coded like this or not but I have seen the code of a few games and they usually don't do this.
Hope I was able to clear things. I am also not shaming the coder things can be difficult and sometimes time and life is not just your ally. Like I remember I was trying to learn Sugarcube v2 for the sake of making a game I got into in it but then I was like fuck this shit I am out. Things like this can happen when a person jumps engines or languages.