- Feb 26, 2020
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- Thread starter Crazygamer43
- Start date
Those scared of death and dark moments in a novel (and hating on DPC jesus ppl Acting was 2 or so years ago now) might wanna remember this game semi starts on a fucking suicide attempt. Go play a loli honey select if want cuteness and rainbows
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- Jan 17, 2018
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Holy shit i thought it was impossible but here it is a porn game with a good story never thought the day would come
- Aug 26, 2018
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I don't want cuteness and rainbows. But I also don't think it's too much to ask for a happy(ish) ending. People can recover and be better after all.
prob will have happy ends and not saying is wrong or bad at all. just saying along the way TO end could have some stuff and choices would feel way more serious if there major consiquences attached besides just missing a scene
Sometimes you have to introduce choices into a VN where the consequences of them tends to shape the readers opinion of the MC. ea. If I were to give you the option the let the MC cheat on your chosen girl, would that change your opinion of the MC - even if you never took that choice yourself (or only played the choice on a fun playthrough)?
- May 9, 2019
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Of course not. That is "the kind of player you want to be" option. MC is only a cheater if he cheats, it is not a cheater if he does not.
- Jun 28, 2020
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If anything, having the choice to cheat, but rejecting it makes the MC look all the better. Taking the choice to cheat is what would reflect on him poorly, not the choice being there.
I've seen several other games where discussions rage on about the MC being a terrible person, just because the choice exists. Even the most prominent games where the MC is judged by the girl (or amount of girls), though in reality the choice is always the players to choose.
An example, from the very first days of making LoF, I toyed around with having a corruption path in the game. I wanted to explore a darker side of 'James', and where he could get the Metro tickets for Kira, provided he got a BJ in return - which she would give rather unwilling.
I've always thought such a choice would ruin his "teddybear-ish" appearance, as you could theoretically go see that side of him if you wanted to,. And when you see it, it sticks.
An example, from the very first days of making LoF, I toyed around with having a corruption path in the game. I wanted to explore a darker side of 'James', and where he could get the Metro tickets for Kira, provided he got a BJ in return - which she would give rather unwilling.
I've always thought such a choice would ruin his "teddybear-ish" appearance, as you could theoretically go see that side of him if you wanted to,. And when you see it, it sticks.
- May 9, 2019
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I mean I see your point, but I definitely think that anyone complaining about a choice they made is ultimately foolish. He can be a Teddy bear in one route and be a total asshole in another one. Making choices does modify a person in real life too. Same with girls, you can pick X in one route because you like the cute girl with depression issues and pick Y in another route because you like the super star everybody wants to be with.
Some games control moral choices by blocking them by having a moral variable. In that sense, only if you are "evil" you would be allowed to pick such a choice to get a blowjob for tickets. In my opinion, it does not make a good policy, as you ended up with only choices that reinforce your first picks, so if you started slightly evil, you ended up full Palpatine as you can only keep picking evil choices. It does not allow for a "change of heart".
I think giving choices, real choices not the stupid "hug your girlfriend/tell her she is an ugly bitch" is always something that is welcome, with the only real downside of making the game tree potentially too large as you have to have ramifications of the actions you made.
That is not to say that if you really don't like the idea of MC making some choice, as it would really contradict his personality on some level you don't want, you still have to give such a choice. If you think giving a blowjob is something not even the biggest jackass "James" would do, simply don't give the option at all.
Character consistency is important, I just don't want you to skip a choice just because you feel some guy would complain.
In the end, there is this big law of physics that says that people will complain no matter what you do. As always do what you feel is right for your novel. This is your story. In my opinion, you are doing a very good job.
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- Apr 26, 2019
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I agree 100%. In most game its either full on one side or the other. It makes for bad storytelling imho, real people aren't black and white either.
- Aug 27, 2020
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hi Drifty,
Yes. You have the most likable MC out there. If I were given the chance to cheat with him, I would not do it, because of how well you have written him. It isn't in his soul. Not in Chris' soul either. So if put in a must cheat situation yeah it would change my opinion. Just offered the chance? No, because he would turn it down. So no change!
Cheers
- Jan 28, 2019
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I see a solution for allowing such implementation:
A disclaimer at the beginning of the game that states that we have the choice to shape the kind of person the MC is.
Follow that up with doing what you have already done: greying out options that lack the points to be available.
That means we can choose, for lack of any better way to put it, how good, bad, or neutral we would want the MC to be, by allowing us to take choices that lead towards one of the other, but by blocking off choices that are too outside thge moral framework out "points" indicate the character is on.
With that being said, I'm glad this game isn't going that way, because to implement that would require a substantial overhaul... but I think you could do it in a future project.
And as a player, I like the idea of deciding who my MC is. Good or bad, strong or weak, asexual to sex fiend, loving or manipulative, etc.
I think an option to make the MC a bad person only seems jarring when it comes out of left field, where as allowing you to build one way or the other makes more sense, and allows us more choice in how the story unfolds.
From there, endings can even branch out a lot. 4 examples being evil but you get what you want (good evil ending), evil and your actions lead to your downfall (bad evil ending), good and happily ever after (good good ending), or unable to hold on to what your building towards so you lose it all (good bad ending).
In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with choices having consequences. What irks me in games is when a lack of choice leads to consequences.
Be that from major (without naming games... people suffer or die in a way that seems like it should have been preventable or at least toned down to lessen the tragedy, but there is no way to make that happen as it is hard scripted), to minor (a girl the game forces you to pursue is deeply hurt because you could not choose to not pursue her initially, only to cheat on her and pick a different LI later).
Drama is needed for games to have emotional impact, but I think a strong game is one that allows the MC the ability to resolve, or move past, the drama, in the end, and that the real consequences suffered should be from player choice, not baked in elements.
- Oct 14, 2020
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Give us as many options as you can. Just make them have an impact on the story, I hate VN's that are just riding the rails with only the illusion of choice.
- May 9, 2019
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Quick reminder: game trees that are too big are unfeasible to produce as they become too large. The curse of dimensionality and all that.
- Oct 14, 2020
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That would be why I said '. . .as you can'.
And I'm sick of the excuse that no choice can be given because (insert bullshit reason). A lot of games have been made and are being made with branching path's. Games are an interactive medium, if you can't interact what's the point?
- Aug 4, 2017
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Discussions rage about lots of illogical things, obviously the choices the player makes shape the MC, but the choices are the players. If they want to turn the teddybear into a douche-bag that's on them. Having a mutable MC would appeal to a broader range of players - not everyone wants to be the nice guy. Lot more work to do it well though & reflect the different flavours of MC.
This seems more like a projection of how you view the MC, rather than how players might want to play him. Which is fair enough, you're understandably invested in the character you created. In which case you shouldn't offer the choice, you'd likely regret altering your vision of the MC, much like the Steph arc tweaks.
- May 28, 2017
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I think we need to be reasonable in what we expect. The vast majority of these adult video game devs are amateurs with no previous experience (both in writing and programming), and they also develop games by themselves or with really small (2-3 people) team. Add that most players' expectation is an update every 6-8 weeks, it's very unlikely that we'd get to see a game like what you envisioned.
Using your four ending as an example, that is most likely would end up with 4 different updates which could take between 6-12 months to release just for the endings. Then people might not even want to wait 2 months just to see the "good bad ending" where you basically just end up losing it all.
IMO, such thing works better if the game is released in full. But for games that rely on update by update, it's much more reasonable to downscale the scope of the game so that each update could feel meaningful and worth the wait. So far, I think Leap of Faith have been an excellent example of good progress.
- Jun 28, 2020
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Yeah, thats a bit of a darker path for the MC. If you want to implement some sort of cheating, I think its all in how you construct the scenario. Does he seek out the girl? Or does the girl come to him? (I personally think the latter fits more with how the MC has been depicted so far.) Or its just a girl making the moves on him in a heightened emotional state? Both sides being dumb and making mistakes. Could be drunken shenanigans. Etc, and etc.
- Sep 20, 2018
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Obviously, an MC who cheats on his girl comes off very differently than an MC who has the opportunity but chooses to remain faithful. But how does that translate into a game where we can just reload a save and do both? I think this hinges on whether we see the MC as a character in his own right, or as a (mostly) blank slate that the player controls.
If we see the MC as a mostly complete, mature character that the player exerts a small influence over, then the option to cheat will be a genuine hit to his "teddybear" appearance. Even if the player turns down the offer, the fact is that he might have. That forces us to mentally adjust our image of the MC to account for that. In effect, it means that that the MC has always been the sort of man who would cheat on his girlfriend given the right circumstance... which might not be very strenuous, depending on how you write it!
On the other hand, if we view the MC as an empty shell to be filled by the player (at least to the limits of a video game), then the option to cheat is merely indicative of the type of MC we are playing in a given runthrough. In this case, the option to cheat can instead enhance the MC's teddybear quotient, because it's up to the player to decide just how tempted the MC was by the offer. If we want to play a white knight type, we can keep him on the straight and narrow as clear proof of just how devoted he is to his girl. If we want to play a cad, we can enjoy the way he strings along his latest conquest. But either way, our thoughts are limited to the current 'version' of the MC.
I obviously can't speak to how you (Drifty) perceive the MC, but for myself I'd say the MC is closer to the pre-defined character than he is to a tabula rasa. We already have a long backstory for his relationship with Chris, Linda and Stephanie - not just the facts, but insight into what they meant to him, too. We've had numerous comments about the sort of man he is, from just about all the girls, without much input from us players. Even when asked why, for example, the MC saved Cece, we don't get the option to say he thought she was hot, or lie about his motives to keep up appearances. No, the answer is uniformly given for us: he saved a girl he barely knew on pure instinct. Heck, even the fact that the MC HAS a face in the first place contributes to the notion that he's the same core character no matter what choices we make.
So I guess that was just a really long-winded way of saying that I suspect you are right and giving us the option to make the MC cheat on his girl will ultimately change the way he's perceived (obviously the full impact would depend on the specific details). But I don't think that's an inherent result of the option, just of the way you have structured the story and the characters up to this point.