VN Ren'Py Completed Leap of Faith [Ch. 8 v1.0.3] [DriftyGames]

[ename144]

If there were to be an optional harem ending, I don't think it would bring anything down and in fact it could have even more relevance to the title of the game.

As I said in response to ename144, these characters are coming together at a time when they all seem to need each other and the emotional investment isn't just with their individual stories, but also in the delight of seeing how they are benefiting from being around each other and forming these new bonds of friendship and sisterhood. To then make the brave and bold decision to not tear down these bonds they've made by fighting over the MC or letting jealousy and hurt feelings get in the way of their friendship, but to instead put their trust in each other and in the MC to have a mutually beneficial sharing/poly/harem relationship, would be a tremendous "leap of faith".

What's "brave and bold" about a rigged choice? In the real world, group relationships are bold because jealousy is a very powerful thing. In this game, it would just happen because the MC has his magic... bunny slippers.

A little while back Drifty asked about whether the ability to have the MC cheat on a girl would change your perception of him even if you didn't let him cheat. Several of us said yes. This is the flip side of that: if a girl is willing to accept being part of a harem, that substantially changes the way we see her (and her relationship with the MC) even if we choose not to catch 'em all.

A harem ending means Robin's view of sex as a hobby is no longer an insight into her unique character, it's just the ground state for females in the LoF universe. None of the girls can ever be the sort of person who views sex as something special and private, which is a real shame for us players who prefer that sort of girl.

Unless the game is going to show us in detail exactly why this band of characters is unusually skilled at deflecting that jealousy, all a harem ending will do is call attention to how shallow the various relationships are. Thus far, the game has barely acknowledged that any of the girls is even capable of feeling jealousy, so we'd be off to a truly terrible start.

That's why it's not as simple as making a harem optional. The validity of the option imposes restrictions on the characters that persist in other paths.

 

[DavDR]

It doesn't. You can easily have a game that has rich story elements with emotional investment but also has the typical elements of more gratuitous porn game where story is secondary to the action and the different kinks.

It's all about threading that needle between both and this game, I feel, is doing that.

No it is not, it's generally known that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

A little while back Drifty asked about whether the ability to have the MC cheat on a girl would change your perception of him even if you didn't let him cheat. Several of us said yes. This is the flip side of that: if a girl is willing to accept being part of a harem, that substantially changes the way we see her (and her relationship with the MC) even if we choose not to catch 'em all.

Isn't he technically already "cheating"? He may not be in an "official" relationship with any of them, but he can be having sex with Kira and Robin whilst getting close to Cece and kissing her in a romantic way, whilst also being interested in pursuing something with Lexi. So it seems he's already playing the field quite a bit.

As for the girls, pretty much all of them have aspects about them and certain hints dropped which seem conducive to potential acceptance of them all sharing the MC, so I don't think it happening would really change what's been seen so dramatically that it in any way damages them or the story at large.

A harem ending means Robin's view of sex as a hobby is no longer an insight into her unique character, it's just the ground state for females in the LoF universe. None of the girls can ever be the sort of person who views sex as something special and private, which is a real shame for us players who prefer that sort of girl.

Hasn't that view of hers already been somewhat negated by the fact that she's now doing it with him for deeper, more emotional reasons? In any case, the idea that sex can only be viewed as special if it's private is, in my view, an outdated one. Having sex with someone you love and who means a lot to you is what makes it special, not the fact that you keep it to yourselves and keep it "in the bedroom".

Talking about sex openly with others you know and trust in a safe environment can be quite beneficial to a person's mental health and also their sexual growth and maturity because when you treat sex like it's a taboo subject, it can make people feel more insecure about it and less able to understand themselves, their sexual desires, and their expectations when it comes to sex. In this regard, it's another good reason why a harem can work because there are girls within this group who have a lot of experience and others that don't, and they can help and suport one another by talking about it openly and helping each other to make their own personal experiences better by offering advice and suggestions on how to do so.

Unless the game is going to show us in detail exactly why this band of characters is unusually skilled at deflecting that jealousy, all a harem ending will do is call attention to how shallow the various relationships are. Thus far, the game has barely acknowledged that any of the girls is even capable of feeling jealousy, so we'd be off to a truly terrible start.

Well there's still at least 4 chapters left, so plenty of time to show a reasonable rationale.

No it is not, it's generally known that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Games that have good stories and characters but also contain lots of sexual hijinks and kinks do exist, but either you've not played them or just refuse to acknowledge when they do both.

Also, that phrase isn't as definitive as you might think and is considered to have a confusing ambiguity due to 'have-eat' word order. As Billy Connolly once said, "What good is having a cake if you can't eat it?" In terms of this game, it could be deciphered as "having" the cake means having all these girls to choose from and "eating" it means being to be with all of them, and since you actually can have a cake and eat it, then such a thing is possible given the right justification and circumstances.

 

[DavDR]

Isn't he technically already "cheating"? He may not be in an "official" relationship with any of them, but he can be having sex with Kira and Robin whilst getting close to Cece and kissing her in a romantic way, whilst also being interested in pursuing something with Lexi. So it seems he's already playing the field quite a bit.

As for the girls, pretty much all of them have aspects about them and certain hints dropped which seem conducive to potential acceptance of them all sharing the MC, so I don't think it happening would really change what's been seen so dramatically that it in any way damages them or the story at large.



Hasn't that view of hers already been somewhat negated by the fact that she's now doing it with him for deeper, more emotional reasons? In any case, the idea that sex can only be viewed as special if it's private is, in my view, an outdated one. Having sex with someone you love and who means a lot to you is what makes it special, not the fact that you keep it to yourselves and keep it "in the bedroom".

Talking about sex openly with others you know and trust in a safe environment can be quite beneficial to a person's mental health and also their sexual growth and maturity because when you treat sex like it's a taboo subject, it can make people feel more insecure about it and less able to understand themselves, their sexual desires, and their expectations when it comes to sex. In this regard, it's another good reason why a harem can work because there are girls within this group who have a lot of experience and others that don't, and they can help and suport one another by talking about it openly and helping each other to make their own personal experiences better by offering advice and suggestions on how to do so.



Well there's still at least 4 chapters left, so plenty of time to show a reasonable rationale.



Games that have good stories and characters but also contain lots of sexual hijinks and kinks do exist, but either you've not played them or just refuse to acknowledge when they do both.

Also, that phrase isn't as definitive as you might think and is considered to have a confusing ambiguity due to 'have-eat' word order. As Billy Connolly once said, "What good is having a cake if you can't eat it?" In terms of this game, it could be deciphered as "having" the cake means having all these girls to choose from and "eating" it means being to be with all of them, and since you actually can have a cake and eat it, then such a thing is possible given the right justification and circumstances.

That just sounds like a lot of prevaricating to me. The phrase means that you can't have everything, and a story that gives you everything, easily and without consequences is just boring.

Boy meet Girl, boy meets another Girl, then another and another and another. Boy get's everything he wants without making difficult choices or facing consequences for his choices. The end. Not what I would call a great story. Where's the arc? Where are the struggles? It's just easy wish fulfillment. There is no story there.

 

[MrFriendly]

That just sounds like a lot of prevaricating to me. The phrase means that you can't have everything, and a story that gives you everything, easily and without consequences is just boring.

Boy meet Girl, boy meets another Girl, then another and another and another. Boy get's everything he wants without making difficult choices or facing consequences for his choices. The end. Not what I would call a great story. Where's the arc? Where are the struggles? It's just easy wish fulfillment. There is no story there.

Exactly! Which is why harems make for boring stories that are neither romantic or dramatic. I like having to choose one character to pursue. It makes the game more replayable. If there is a harem ending I’d just play through once and move on.

 

[IamJAG]

I like a harem ending, but also like the true to life endings too. Fall in love with the girl, anticipate the drama and make your choices - so that, then, you can be happy knowing how you've chosen. Having said that, I could easily choose any of them. Cece, Linda, Steph, Lexi, Kira.. maybe not Robin. I'm not too keen on her competitive streak and the way she doesn't seem to appreciate Kira's emotional behaviour toward MC from the get go.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

That just sounds like a lot of prevaricating to me. The phrase means that you can't have everything, and a story that gives you everything, easily and without consequences is just boring.

Boy meet Girl, boy meets another Girl, then another and another and another. Boy get's everything he wants without making difficult choices or facing consequences for his choices. The end. Not what I would call a great story. Where's the arc? Where are the struggles? It's just easy wish fulfillment. There is no story there.

Actually, that's not exactly what the phrase means. To say that "you can't have your cake and eat it too" is more like saying "you can't have two things that are impossible to have at the same time", in other words you cannot preserve the cake (having it) and eat it as well because then it is no longer preserved. An example of this would be people who want better local services, but also want to pay less taxes. In this case, it's not possible to do both because the taxes pay for the services, so if they want better services (the cake) they can't expect to pay less in taxes (eat the cake).

As far as this game is concerned, it is not necessarily impossible or inconceivable to think that the MC can have all the girls as it simply requires a reasonable justification and build-up towards it, hence why it is possible to have the cake and eat it too in this scenario if the right circumstances were to align.

As for the issue of consequential choices, people face those every day in life and sometimes it's nice to have some escapism into worlds where such choices are either non-existent or easily correctible by virtue of a do-over (reload last save point). Who really needs "struggle" in a game when there's so much of it in the real world? There can still be a good story here in several areas like how the characters come together, how their feelings develop by spending time with each other, and how they deal with the adversities that will eventally come their way.

 

[L0MBR0]

I'm too pathetic to choose a love interest so just give me a harem okay...

 

[DavDR]

Actually, that's not exactly what the phrase means. To say that "you can't have your cake and eat it too" is more like saying "you can't have two things that are impossible to have at the same time", in other words you cannot preserve the cake (having it) and eat it as well because then it is no longer preserved. An example of this would be people who want better local services, but also want to pay less taxes. In this case, it's not possible to do both because the taxes pay for the services, so if they want better services (the cake) they can't expect to pay less in taxes (eat the cake).

As far as this game is concerned, it is not necessarily impossible or inconceivable to think that the MC can have all the girls as it simply requires a reasonable justification and build-up towards it, hence why it is possible to have the cake and eat it too in this scenario if the right circumstances were to align.

As for the issue of consequential choices, people face those every day in life and sometimes it's nice to have some escapism into worlds where such choices are either non-existent or easily correctible by virtue of a do-over (reload last save point). Who really needs "struggle" in a game when there's so much of it in the real world? There can still be a good story here in several areas like how the characters come together, how their feelings develop by spending time with each other, and how they deal with the adversities that will eventally come their way.
[/QUOTE

Then go play a game where they offer all the things you like, God knows there are plenty of them out there. And if Drifty decides to make this game one of them then I for one am out. There are dev's out there who are making an effort to turn the AVN medium into something worth, I'm just sorry that Drifty has decided to go elsewhere. It was a good story, but someone always has to come along and ruin it.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Then go play a game where they offer all the things you like, God knows there are plenty of them out there. And if Drifty decides to make this game one of them then I for one am out. There are dev's out there who are making an effort to turn the AVN medium into something worth, I'm just sorry that Drifty has decided to go elsewhere. It was a good story, but someone always has to come along and ruin it.

This game does offer things I like, hence why I play it, and as I've detailed, it ticks a lot of boxes for that other "thing" in terms of how it's already been playing out, whether intentionally or not. If it were to happen it would obviously be optional just as it's optional in all the other games I've mentioned where it happens in similar ways, and since it would be optional, why should it matter? You won't do it so you don't have to acknowledge its existence in your own canon version of events.

As far as the story is concerned, it's good and engaging, but it's not exactly an Oscar winning script. The characters are really the most compelling aspect because they all have tragic and quite hard-hitting backgrounds in some cases that make them very sympathetic, but beyond the MC seemingly rebuilding their life after years of pining for Steph, there doesn't seem to be much else to the main story at the moment. Also, things are happening incredibly easily for the MC and even the LIs, and the connections and feelings these characters have are developing in a super-fast, less than realistic way like in just about every other AVN and porn game, so if it were to have that "thing" it wouldn't really be going against its own grain.

 

[DavDR]

This game does offer things I like, hence why I play it, and as I've detailed, it ticks a lot of boxes for that other "thing" in terms of how it's already been playing out, whether intentionally or not. If it were to happen it would obviously be optional just as it's optional in all the other games I've mentioned where it happens in similar ways, and since it would be optional, why should it matter? You won't do it so you don't have to acknowledge its existence in your own canon version of events.

As far as the story is concerned, it's good and engaging, but it's not exactly an Oscar winning script. The characters are really the most compelling aspect because they all have tragic and quite hard-hitting backgrounds in some cases that make them very sympathetic, but beyond the MC seemingly rebuilding their life after years of pining for Steph, there doesn't seem to be much else to the main story at the moment. Also, things are happening incredibly easily for the MC and even the LIs, and the connections and feelings these characters have are developing in a super-fast, less than realistic way like in just about every other AVN and porn game, so if it were to have that "thing" it wouldn't really be going against its own grain.

I think Ename, in his earlier post, destroyed the argument that an optional harem wouldn't effect the game as written, I think it would be a disaster.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I think Ename, in his earlier post, destroyed the argument that an optional harem wouldn't effect the game as written, I think it would be a disaster.

And I think it fits quite well within what's been written.

Agree to disagree.

 

[abiorigins]

is this Keeanu reeves

 

[Ayhsel]

is this Keeanu reeves




View attachment 1031988

Mmmm. Can he dodge bullets, kill Thanos with a pencil or is he the greatest man alive and supposedly an immortal

You must be registered to see the links

?

 

[Arigon]

I'm too pathetic to choose a love interest so just give me a harem okay...
View attachment 1031392

Easily the best answer for harems lol

thruple I can make justification for on occasion. Harem in mind control. Ok got it.
Your reason though, resonates!!!

 

[Ayhsel]

Easily the best answer for harems lol

thruple I can make justification for on occasion. Harem in mind control. Ok got it.
Your reason though, resonates!!!

To choose is to give up.. I don't think harem make sense for this game..

Make me choose and suffer from those choices, so no, I don't want a "everybody is happy" ending...

 

[ename144]

Isn't he technically already "cheating"? He may not be in an "official" relationship with any of them, but he can be having sex with Kira and Robin whilst getting close to Cece and kissing her in a romantic way, whilst also being interested in pursuing something with Lexi. So it seems he's already playing the field quite a bit.

The question was about the MC cheating, not being chaste. Robin and Kira both made it explicitly clear that they didn't see sex as exclusive to a relationship. Moreover, based on the 'moment' scene and some of his dialog in Chapter 4, it's pretty clear the MC took a while to pick up on the romance vibe with Cece despite their kiss.

So no, the MC hasn't been close to cheating. If anything, we're rushing into relationships with the girls too quickly, based purely on the MC's choice at the start of Chapter 4. (IMHO, of course).

As for the girls, pretty much all of them have aspects about them and certain hints dropped which seem conducive to potential acceptance of them all sharing the MC, so I don't think it happening would really change what's been seen so dramatically that it in any way damages them or the story at large.

What hints? Kira and Robin say that, but they are the only ones who do. Also, based on how they act if the MC chooses one and not the other I'm inclined to list that as a sign of their immaturity more than it is a sign there's a harem in the making.

The other girls don't show any sign of wanting to share the MC. Lexi and Linda worry about losing their shot at the MC in their inner monologues. Cece is mostly preoccupied with her own problems, but will steer clear of the MC whenever he's focusing on a different girl. Steph seems resigned to never seeing the MC again after their reunion in Chapter 4 blew up; even if she encourages the MC to be with Cece, it's after Steph makes it clear that her relationship with the MC is over.

As I've said, the girls show no signs of jealousy, but that's not the same as being willing to share. It's just as likely that they're putting on a brave face for the good of their friend.

Hasn't that view of hers already been somewhat negated by the fact that she's now doing it with him for deeper, more emotional reasons? In any case, the idea that sex can only be viewed as special if it's private is, in my view, an outdated one. Having sex with someone you love and who means a lot to you is what makes it special, not the fact that you keep it to yourselves and keep it "in the bedroom".

Talking about sex openly with others you know and trust in a safe environment can be quite beneficial to a person's mental health and also their sexual growth and maturity because when you treat sex like it's a taboo subject, it can make people feel more insecure about it and less able to understand themselves, their sexual desires, and their expectations when it comes to sex. In this regard, it's another good reason why a harem can work because there are girls within this group who have a lot of experience and others that don't, and they can help and suport one another by talking about it openly and helping each other to make their own personal experiences better by offering advice and suggestions on how to do so.

The idea that any romantic combination can be made to work if everyone just embraces their lust is, in my view, wishful thinking. Some people might be able to make unusual match-ups work in some circumstances, but I think most people could not.

Moreover, I think the vast majority of people will vastly overestimate their ability to handle sharing their sexual partner, especially in the moment. We need only look at how contentions the very concept of NTR is to realize that. So if this game wants to sell a harem route, it needs to show all the participants manage to safely navigate that minefield. Just shrugging and saying the sex was like, really deep and spiritual isn't going to cut it. Not even close.

And another thing. I agree that talking about sex can be healthy, but having sex with people is a very, very different kettle of fish. None of us are saying the MC shouldn't become fast friends with all the girls (or at least I'm not). But I'm sure as hell objecting to the notion that the only way the MC can help all the other girls is if he gets to fuck them, too!

Frankly, that just makes the MC sound like a lame pickup artist. No thanks!

 

[MrFriendly]

To choose is to give up.. I don't think harem make sense for this game..

Make me choose and suffer from those choices, so no, I don't want a "everybody is happy" ending...

My thing is that I play these games to make choices, if I didn't want to make choices there are some well made kinetic novels that I can enjoy. What is a more important decision than who the MC is with in the end? If that ultimate choice is removed because it is more convenient for people to not make a decision it dilutes the story. And, even when a harem ending is just an option, it can negatively impact how people perceive the characters, the story, and the developer. Is that fair? Nope, not even a bit but people will be bitches.

Overall, I want to be an indecisive fuck who keeps going back and forth about who I want the MC to be with... It means that I will have to replay the game so I can see how each ending goes. If there is a harem ending where "everyone is happy" I will play that and be done. No need to worry since everyone is happy about the "take a ticket and wait for your turn to fuck the magic dick" harem ending...

To me harem endings are fan service and I mostly avoid them.

 

[Ayhsel]

My thing is that I play these games to make choices, if I didn't want to make choices there are some well made kinetic novels that I can enjoy. What is a more important decision than who the MC is with in the end? If that ultimate choice is removed because it is more convenient for people to not make a decision it dilutes the story. And, even when a harem ending is just an option, it can negatively impact how people perceive the characters, the story, and the developer. Is that fair? Nope, not even a bit but people will be bitches.

Overall, I want to be an indecisive fuck who keeps going back and forth about who I want the MC to be with... It means that I will have to replay the game so I can see how each ending goes. If there is a harem ending where "everyone is happy" I will play that and be done. No need to worry since everyone is happy about the "take a ticket and wait for your turn to fuck the magic dick" harem ending...

To me harem endings are fan service and I mostly avoid them.

I agree with you. Simplifying it probably too much, choices are only as good as the option you leave behind, if you can have everything, you are not making any choice, so the actual impact of the choice is diminished as the choice itself is actually an illusion.

 

[Arigon]

I personally WANT to be forced to say "Hey Lexi! Will you be my one and only???"
Am I alone in this? I doubt it....
IF Lexi were removed from play, I would make a try for Cece, perhaps with Linda as the +2, or is it +1.... meh which ever. I know Kira and Robin would come as a unit, and that is my next choice if I could not get a Linda and Cece thruple. I will play a Steph run as I used to work for DHS, so I can empathize a bit.
Failing the above, I would try-
Cece solo
Linda solo
Robin solo
Kira solo
Holly and Steph thruple
Steph solo
Holly solo
Again, that is only if my top preferences would not work out.
If I am with Lexi and or Cece solo, I would try like hell to get Chris and Linda as an item. IF I get with Lexi I could also go for a Chris with Holly.... That actually would be great. Keeping Besties together.