- Dec 5, 2020
- 2,845
- 19,144
It's the most discussed topic on the Monk's discord.
He's joking, of course. Or is he?
- Thread starter Impious Monk
- Start date
He's joking, of course. Or is he?
- Mar 25, 2021
- 12,221
- 27,951
My answer to that either way isIt's the most discussed topic on the Monk's discord.
He's joking, of course. Or is he?
- Dec 5, 2020
- 2,845
- 19,144
- Jul 14, 2021
- 115
- 1,707
You must be registered to see the links
Hey everybody.
Back when I started working on Leaving DNA, I anticipated it being a whole fuck ton of work. After coming up with the story and teaching myself Daz and Ren'py, I knew I'd be grinding for a solid two, maybe two and a half more years to finish this project. That seemed like a long way off, but I was passionate about it and knew if I dug in for the long haul I'd get it done. And if I recall correctly, the estimate for the game's completion that I gave to my early supporters was two and a half years.
Three years later, I've only just released Episode Four and still have a long ways to go.
When I came up with the story and started working on the game, I believed I would be funding it on my own. I just wanted to tell a story. I didn't plan on using Patreon, SubscribeStar, Steam, or Itch. But as I spent more and more of my own money on hardware and 3D assets I realized I was going to be inflicting some serious financial damage on myself if I didn't ask for support. And man, I have gotten so many awesome people jumping in to help me out. Some of you have been with me since I first launched my Patreon and SubscribeStar Pages. Others who joined along the way have still given me hundreds of dollars. I appreciate all of you. But if I'm being honest, at this point it just feels like too much for what I'm giving you. Even at the base tier of $3 a month that's $36 a year for maybe a few hours of gameplay. At the $10 and $20 a month tiers it really feels excessive, especially for those of you have been funding me at those tiers since I released the demo.
Of course, in addition to everything I've already spent on the game I do continue to have new expenses. Every month I pay hundreds of dollars more in energy costs from rendering all the time. Each animated scene costs me at least a thousand dollars. I continue to spend money on 3D assets, music licenses, software licenses, and other stuff like.
However, I write all of this to say that between your generous donations and the money I've made from Steam and Itch, I now have made back my own investments and I have enough money to fund the rest of the game. This was my primary goal for opening the Patreon and SubscribeStar pages and that goal has been met.
Looking ahead to the final episodes, it will get harder for me to provide previews or discuss upcoming content. I think I've mentioned this a few times in the past, but I honestly am not sure I'll want to give any previews at all while I'm working on Episodes Six, Seven, and Eight. I've always closely guarded against spoilers and I don't think it's possible to give previews for the last episodes without spoiling them.
Furthermore, the longer I work on the game, the more boring my developer's journals get. Frankly I just run out of interesting things to talk about. My point here again is I'm not sure how much value I'm returning to you for your monthly donations.
So, all of this is my introduction to the formal announcement that I will soon be taking down both my Patreon and SubscribeStar pages. I don't know exactly when, but it will be before I release Episode Five. I will soon prevent new subscribers from signing up, and sometime after that I will prevent even existing supporters from providing any more contributions.
For those who have been supporting me over a period of months and are worried about losing access to the game, don't worry you won't lose access. I will be providing weekly journals and new game updates via an email list. I'm still working out the details on this, but if you've already contributed a certain amount of money via Patreon or SubscribeStar then you will continue to receive all journals and updates for free. I'm not sure what the amount will be yet. Maybe $15 or $20.
I will also continue to provide monthly special renders to supporters who have contributed at higher amounts or for a long period, but the difference will be that access to these renders will be dependent on your total past contributions rather than an ongoing monthly contribution. However, I haven't yet decided what the threshold amounts will be.
In other words, if you've been a long term supporter, you're going to continue to get everything you've been getting in the past, but now you won't have to pay for it.
I know that many of you guys who have been supporting me for awhile want to continue giving me money and you are awesome, but please understand that there are multiple factors that have gone into this decision. There's more than just what I'm writing about here, but the unexpectedly long period of development is a major factor that I think justifies this move all by itself. I will of course continue to receive additional funding from new players buying the game outright on Steam and Itch.
I'll be making a public announcement this week. I wanted to leave the page open to new subs long enough for people who had been waiting for Episode Four to get it, but I don't want anyone signing up just to lose access to the page a month later. What I might do is temporarily open up the ability for new subscribers to make a small one time donation to get access to journals and updates going forward.
Anyways, I'll have more details later, but feel free to DM me with questions.
I really do appreciate you guys. I honestly wouldn't have made it this far without you.
--Monk
- Nov 15, 2020
- 1,067
- 722
Ooh that's a good and honest reason to remove yourself from public funding sites. I wish more devs were like this instead of simply "I need this for the game, but everything more than that is nice to have in my company/own pocket".
- Mar 25, 2021
- 12,221
- 27,951
I'll be honest if I was a dev I'd be milking you guys for all your worth.
I have mad respect for Monk right now for not being like me lol.
I have mad respect for Monk right now for not being like me lol.
- Apr 4, 2019
- 229
- 847
This is wonderful to read. Good riddance. Now Rockford can properly bathe in his sorrows. I love it.
aint nothing wrong with that.
i also know people that are not motivated at all by money beyond living expense so i'd guessed that was where IM was coming from.
i'm also impressed at how thoughtful his patreon exit seems to be, and oilers that wanna throw money at him will still have 6 months to do so.
He's said he'll finish the game, and i believe him.
Last edited:
The realization that Colleen wasn't the MC's sister should have been a gut punch but was overshadowed by the unnecessary surprise incest. That scene could have kept all the emotional turmoil and even amped it up more if, for example, (cop ex-gf whose name I can't spell) showed up and shouted through the door "Colleen isn't your sister, Emmeline is!" right as Em and MC are still pulling their clothes off. A ton could have been done with that, or any other way of getting the information to the MC before the act. That is why my complaint is about how it was written.
Instead the decision was made to force the inclusion of incest when it really isn't necessary except for shock value. You even explicitly state that you don't want the fetishized incest content... so why include it in the first place? You're not a novice AVN developer, so when I read the line where the MC realizes "oh em gee,
what have I done?" in a situation written specifically showing that he was missing the messages from Ex-GF Cop, I saw a dev cackling gleefully as he added a new tag that would be sure to bring tons of new eyes in searches. The incest didn't shock me, I literally rolled my eyes and hit 'quit' I was so disappointed. I only later remembered the news about Colleen and I do think it would have been really gut wrenching if I had processed it at the time it happened. The cat is out of the bag so its not like this is going to be a surprise to anyone in the future, but in theory the only thing that would need to be changed to have avoided my tantrum was for the MC to learn about his relationship to Emmeline before they jump in the sack. I probably would still go for it, as long as A----- left the building.
My objection is not to the act but to intentional lack of choice.
- Dec 5, 2020
- 2,845
- 19,144
I love some unnecessary surprise incest in the morning.
- Mar 26, 2024
- 575
- 842
- Oct 3, 2024
- 336
- 589
The more i've sat on the plot twist in Chapter 4, the more it's annoyed me, to the point this was in my top 5 VNs and the more i sit on it, the closer it is to dropping out.
I just don't understand the purpose it serves other than being a shock for the sake of a shock and the developer is sending mixed messages about the future. He doesn't want fetishised incest content, perfectly fine, it makes me feel a bit icky at the best of times, but then communication on steam brings up the path.
Is the MC going to take the politics offer to try and make incest legal in that state? That's just gross, will it effectively end Emmeline's path as a LI? The game already only has 4, and as of the story being told, 1 is moving away, god knows what is happening with the other one and the last one is a past relationship
I'm not trying to shit on the game, i loved my time with it, but the reveal just perplexed me. I'll still be keeping an eye on updates but I'm sufficiently less excited about them future of the game than i was before that last chapter
I just don't understand the purpose it serves other than being a shock for the sake of a shock and the developer is sending mixed messages about the future. He doesn't want fetishised incest content, perfectly fine, it makes me feel a bit icky at the best of times, but then communication on steam brings up the path.
Is the MC going to take the politics offer to try and make incest legal in that state? That's just gross, will it effectively end Emmeline's path as a LI? The game already only has 4, and as of the story being told, 1 is moving away, god knows what is happening with the other one and the last one is a past relationship
I'm not trying to shit on the game, i loved my time with it, but the reveal just perplexed me. I'll still be keeping an eye on updates but I'm sufficiently less excited about them future of the game than i was before that last chapter
I am interested in why you think Rockford would, "take the politics offer to try and make incest legal?"
That's something new and I don't think anything in the AVN so far suggests Rockford would even contemplate such a thing. Is it impossible? No. But it would take really uncharacteristic behavior from Rockford [as he now stands] and uncharacteristic apathy from those seeking to propel him into office to go down that path.
LeavingDNA is NOT an AVN one should simply apply typical AVN porn logic to.
If Rockford/Emmeline were to even contemplate moving forward with an intimate relationship, where do things stand from what we know about the characters so far?
1. How would Emmeline feel about it? That we don't fully know, but by the end of Epi 4, her reaction is negative. We do know that she holds some traditional values about family, in the sense she wants nothing more than having children and a reliable, monogamous man to raise them with. But how far is she willing to go to achieve this? There is a large difference in Emmeline's reaction to the cliffhanger revelation, depending if she and Rockford are just friends, if she had sex with Rockford, or if she's possibly impregnated by Rockford. The thought of impregnation after the revelation CLEARLY horrifies her. So, under what circumstances would Emmeline go forward with an i-relationship with Rockford? Among the considerations are her position on abortion [if impregnated], especially given her strong desire to birth children, and/or how "head over heels" in love with Rockford she is. With the former, she may carry a baby to term no matter what. With the latter, her emotions might result in irrational behavior that compromises her belief system. EDIT: Emmeline also carries the shame of being a rape victim. What would the latest revelation do for her self esteem, especially after sex/impregnation?
2. How will Rockford feel about it? Everything about Rockford so far indicates he values the sanctity of biological family ties - something he's never had - above all else. He has also expressed his views on the i-subject [note - this comes up in a conversation on the Aghavni path, but the assumption is that Rockford's beliefs are consistent across all the routes], and he strongly believes if he had a sister, he'd feel like he was their protector. He'd never want to do anything to make them feel uncomfortable or afraid, such as sexually exploiting them. This is apparent in his inability [up to the end of epi 4, at least] to see Jamie as anything other than a "little sister," despite no real biological connection. Rockford seems against the i-subject in general. It feels like Rockford would have to change a lifetime of ingrained behaviors and beliefs and overcome his traumas to continue down the i-path - he has to confront and deny the demons that cause him to shut down and pull away from people to avoid intimacy for fear of abandonment. He would have to completely change his belief in the sanctity of biological family. Emmeline is now his real "little sister," not just a surrogate little sister like Jamie, or a mistaken little sister like Colleen. He would have to bend/abandon his beliefs in doing what's morally right and the sanctity of the law.
3. What are the legal, social, and professional implications of Rockford/Emmeline going forward with an intimate relationship? This would depend if they can keep it hidden. However, Aghavni knows, but the DNA test result is part of an official police investigation. Marriage is clearly out of the question, and I would venture that Rockford continuing a relationship with Emmeline would be both illegal, potentially compromising Rockford's legal career as an ADA, and would kill any political ambition he may have in the great state of California. His political opponents would bury him. Would Rockford and Emmeline want to bear the burden of the social cost/stigma? Let's not forget that Rockford is a public figure and minor celebrity. We all know how tabloid journalism works, especially with really juicy and salacious gossip... How much does Rockford adore the public adoration, even privately? Does that adoration affect his self-image and self-esteem?
3. How will the others react, and how will this affect Rockford and Emmeline's decision-making going forward? We have Robert Jamison (potential reaction unknown), Malena (potential reaction unknown), Jamie (her feelings/position are well known and it could potentially derail her friendship with Rockford), Aghavni (someone who still harbors romantic feelings for Rockford and is on the side of the law), and Senator Carrington/Cassie (who see Rockford as a pawn to further their own political goals. Sen. Carrington also has family and political reputations to uphold... would he cut Rockford loose, meaning the Carrington family ostracise him?).
If Sen. Carrington/Cassie found out about Rockford continuing an i-relationship, I highly doubt they would take the risk of having him run for office, let alone allowing Rockford to grandstand on the i-issue if he did get elected.
So, these are just some of the things that could affect the Rockford/Emmeline path going forward. Impious Monk has thought this through and he has repeatedly stressed he has a specific story to tell - one that's grounded in the mechanics of real life relationships and traumas, not some AVN fairyland.
Last edited:
- Oct 3, 2024
- 336
- 589
I don't disagree with any of your points. I was just referring to the fact there is a bug fix related to the Emmeline path which suggest it's still going in some way.
I'll keep my eye out on this VN, i genuinely had a great time, it looks incredible too, just guess we've lost 1 LI, and another one is seemingly flying halfway across the world
One of the strengths of this VN is i have no fucking clue what's gonna happen next
- Oct 3, 2024
- 336
- 589
you're correct. it's gone 5am for me and i've just woke upPresumably you're referring to Jamie supposedly leaving?
IIRC she's just planning on moving to a different State.
Been a while since I played, so forgive me if I'm wrong.
IM has stated via Patreon that the Emmeline LI path won't end following the Epi 4 cliffhanger. However, he's also clearly stated that the path won't be fetishized. The general tone of this AVN is that the i-word is morally and legally wrong and a social taboo.
I wholeheartedly agree with you about not knowing what's gonna happen next. I just expect it to be logically consistent.
I get a real sense of jeopardy from this AVN, meaning pursuit of any given LI (outside of Aghavni) is more likely to lead to heartbreak for the player, unless they steer Rockford to bring about certain changes to his attitude and beliefs, and/or get Rockford to make certain life choices.
To misquote Rory Breaker from the movie, Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels:
This level of realism/uncertainty in the various relationships and Rockford's responses is one of the things I cherish about this AVN.
Last edited:
- Dec 5, 2020
- 2,845
- 19,144
I'm out of reactions but it's damn well said.I don't think most people quite understand (or accept) what happened at the end of Chapter 4 on Emmeline's route. Monk keeps repeating that this is a rather dark story and that reveal at the end of Chapter 4 kills Emmeline as a LI. I myself often make fun of this, "Don't threaten me with good times" and all that... But if you're really playing the game and immersing into the story, then you, as the MC, simply can't avoid all those questions that you've highlighted.
And here many questions arise that have no answers. Are Rockford's principles and beliefs, his career, his social connections worth the possible happiness of two people, even despite such, um, unusual circumstances? Are marriages between relatives unknown to mankind? Is the birth of children with disorder, abnormalities and retardation an inevitable outcome from mating between close relatives? Is it possible for them to explain their choice to their friends and will they be able to accept it. Or is there no choice at all here and the only possible outcome for Emmeline is a pregnancy test and abortion if this happens?
And no, this
wouldn't have had even a tenth of the effect of the current situation, when they found out only after it had already happened. If they stepped back at the very last moment that wouldn't be a dark story, but a typical melodrama, where a suicide is saved at the last moment, a fatal wound turns out not to be fatal, the death of one of the main characters later turns out to be staged, and the DNA test that Agavni came with turns out to be fake.