3.60 star(s) 33 Votes

chopolander

Active Member
Dec 9, 2018
853
1,684
Body 2.0 has, in my opinion, some things that don't quite convince me, they stand out a lot in the side view.

- It has a small stomach, which gives the impression that the legs are somewhat forward of the body. Works best on model 1.0.
- The ears look very much in front. Works best on model 1.0.
- The size of the foot is a little short for the height of the character.
- The totally lateral view, showing only one half of the body, should not be used.
 

NeverKnow

Newbie
Dec 21, 2017
21
55
Hey guys. I have a question. New to the game, and i stuck at 199 trust. Didn't find a way to reach the milestone. How to get it? Or perhaps there is a guide to v0.8? Would really help.
So, i read some discussions... Don't tell me that this is 0.8 and you still cant get past 199 loyalty. That will be very sad.
 

Phanatic

Member
Jan 29, 2019
167
461
Body 2.0 has, in my opinion, some things that don't quite convince me, they stand out a lot in the side view.

- It has a small stomach, which gives the impression that the legs are somewhat forward of the body. Works best on model 1.0.
- The ears look very much in front. Works best on model 1.0.
- The size of the foot is a little short for the height of the character.
- The totally lateral view, showing only one half of the body, should not be used.

I have been thinking for awhile of what you've been talking about and got curious of what you meant.
Decided to compile a little bunch of comparisons and I actually found out that I somewhat agree with a few things that you said.
Visual representation is allways better to understand the subject of discussion.

Krys anatomy.png
I use more comic-like ref-s because they tend to show muscles somewhat more extreme, but because of that you can kinda understand where and which muscle might be drawn. Though not everyone likes that style, so it maybe not the best representation, but oh well...

Liz anatomy.png
Krys anatomy together.png

What's my point? Nothing really. I just thought it would be interesting for some people to see some kind of comparisons without the need to google.

I agree on some points with chopolander though, like her belly on 1.0 looks more attractive, because you can see it better.
As well as her her snout in rework 1.0 attracts me personally more than 2.0.
But things like 3/4 being better and more interesting than simply lateral view were said like 10k+ times already and dev-s heard that, but desicion was made to go with lateral ON THE START. In the future char-s are going to have 3/4 front and 3/4 back views as well, so it will be done eventually even though its an enormous task to do not only the char-s but also the armors and animations for them in all of those angles.

Personally I love Kuja's art in whatever form it comes out and I think new models look High Quality a.f.
And even though I like pre-vamp Krys more than the current K, her freshly-done face/hair/mouth customisation shows pretty great final outlook imo.
New art is different but its still pretty damn great.

p.s. lizardfolk now looks more like crocodilefolk with those jaws.
 

chopolander

Active Member
Dec 9, 2018
853
1,684
As well as her her snout in rework 1.0 attracts me personally more than 2.0.
+1
v1 less cat and more fox

I might add that the tail of the v2 is totally disproportionate, too big.
To tell the truth you can't see where it comes from and it will be a total problem for the animations.
The butt is also too small, the curve of the buttock should fall more, as in v1
 
Last edited:

zeusdia

Newbie
Oct 14, 2017
39
64
To Kuja - thanks for the best looking Krys of all media I saw till now!
But I want to also add that it was the original you made that looked best. Even the rework 1.0 was close enough to that to be great (though I'm not a fan of the new color).

Especially the face in the rework 2.0 looks.. weird. Eyes are too low, the whole face looks more like a mask than a face. I am really surprised it was preferred so much by people on Patreon and Discord.

I've been following this game since around version 0.3 and I really enjoyed it.
While I'm quite worried about the new way the game is going (based on so far available info, the planned ratio of porn-to-gameplay seems to weigh too much towards gameplay IMO, the game you had so far had it great), I'm still waiting to see how this will all turn out. And I can see that the team pours much love into the game now.

The new draft of a more original look Vlad posted here and on Discord gives me hope that it will be possible to play the new game with much more original-looking Krystal. At least we have something.
 
Last edited:

NeverKnow

Newbie
Dec 21, 2017
21
55
Hey guys. Again with questions about 0.8. How to get MC clothes stolen during the bathtime? No matter what i do and how much i reload, i only get scenes with Nesi and Nemiri... Is there some condition?
 
Last edited:

kujakuja

New Member
Mar 26, 2020
4
23
- It has a small stomach, which gives the impression that the legs are somewhat forward of the body. Works best on model 1.0.
The arm in front of half the torso gives you that impression. I made a poll to decide if she would have a more "fit" build than previous versions and it won, so I made sure I added in some muscles and removed some localized fat on some spots, belly included.
- The ears look very much in front. Works best on model 1.0.
Again, upon request we made another poll for the ears and the new one won.
- The totally lateral view, showing only one half of the body, should not be used.
Characters have now multiple angles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ViceGunman

kujakuja

New Member
Mar 26, 2020
4
23
To Kuja - thanks for the best looking Krys of all media I saw till now!
But I want to also add that it was the original you made that looked best. Even the rework 1.0 was close enough to that to be great (though I'm not a fan of the new color).

Especially the face in the rework 2.0 looks.. weird. Eyes are too low, the whole face looks more like a mask than a face. I am really surprised it was preferred so much by people on Patreon and Discord.

I've been following this game since around version 0.3 and I really enjoyed it.
While I'm quite worried about the new way the game is going (based on so far available info, the planned ratio of porn-to-gameplay seems to weigh too much towards gameplay IMO, the game you had so far had it great), I'm still waiting to see how this will all turn out. And I can see that the team pours much love into the game now.

The new draft of a more original look Vlad posted here and on Discord gives me hope that it will be possible to play the new game with much more original-looking Krystal. At least we have something.
Thanks. But yes, we're keeping a close look at that ratio. This is why feedback is very important after we release the first tech demo. We want to make sure to tune things up or down depending on people's tastes.
 

DoorFive

Active Member
Dec 3, 2019
503
589
Hey guys. Again with questions about 0.8. How to get MC clothes stolen during the bathtime? No matter what i do and how much i reload, i only get scenes with Nesi and Nemiri... Is there some condition?
How do I get the 'stolen clothes' event? First, you need to unlock waterfall bathing by washing the pot once. Then, you need to have asked Keakrix about the Xyrin. Finally, get into the water to bathe. You have a 40% (as of v0.7) of the event triggering.
 

chopolander

Active Member
Dec 9, 2018
853
1,684
The arm in front of half the torso gives you that impression. I made a poll to decide if she would have a more "fit" build than previous versions and it won, so I made sure I added in some muscles and removed some localized fat on some spots, belly included.
No, no, no, please no... Don't give me any polls. We're talking about anatomy and you're coming at me with polls. Please take a look upstairs to see the Phantas comparisons. The legs seen in profile can NEVER be further forward than the belly.

The profile of the women is more "duck ass", that's why the thigh falls backwards, and not forward like in v2.

676180841d0708a3cc589938e012056b.jpg

Again, upon request we made another poll for the ears and the new one won.
And again with the polls. That's not the natural position of any animal's ears. If anything, animals put them on like that when something gets their attention.

You can use them as animation in certain events, but not while Krystal walks around relaxed.

2638274768_dc5b2e7f9b_z.jpg

Characters have now multiple angles.
A totally "greek profile" style design will give the character a flat feel, unless you add more shading to the design.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: yiffdude

DoorFive

Active Member
Dec 3, 2019
503
589
No, no, no, please no... Don't give me any polls. We're talking about anatomy and you're coming at me with polls. Please take a look upstairs to see the Phantas comparisons. The legs seen in profile can NEVER be further forward than the belly.

The profile of the women is more "duck ass", that's why the leg curves fall backwards.



And again with the polls. That's not the natural position of any animal's ears. If anything, animals put them on like that when something catches their eye.



A totally "greek profile" style design will give the character a flat feel, unless you add more shading to the design.
I can see where your coming from. basically, what you are saying is that a million people (polls) can be wrong. Your obviously passionate, or you would not be so...can i call you upset? I don't know if there will be anymore reversions of our heroin, but if they do, they might listen more frequently on their discord as that seems to be their main platform for communication. not to say they wouldn't take design notes here, but I assume they frequent less here. Your criticisms might reach further over there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fyo

DoorFive

Active Member
Dec 3, 2019
503
589
If it bothers you so much that I'm pointing out to a character designer that there are things wrong with his design so that he can figure it out and make it better, you can go back to where you came from. Even if you think the opposite, we try to make the designer aware of it, not to harm him, even though it's easier to see the results of a survey than to assess the opinions and motives being discussed.
Why do you have to act like that? It does not bother me, rather, I try to embrace other's ideas.

I invite you to take a look at the comparative anatomy pictures, but I guess you're one of those parts that doesn't give a shit what you voted for. But then we dare to say that this game takes a long time to develop because of the "QUALITY" that is being deposited in it.
You assume I voted. I did not. Now your making accusations.

I may be a upset, but you have a big mouth.
Your attacking me after I tried to be civil. Why do you lash out? How do I have a big mouth? You're just an angery person. please come back after you have settled down.
 

Sharun

Member
Jun 29, 2017
111
125
Wait, is it now bad to make polls and basing work around of the results? And is there really a right way for something made up (i mean, where is the Krystal in reality)? While i stopped supporting and dont know where those polls are made, i think its good to listen to your supporters and community, if not there would be no point of sharing anything than just a "comming soon probably" teaser.

And what good are those standing pictures anyway to discuss, im more interested in bending poses, kneeling options etc :D That would be an intersting point for discussion from my view... so just wait #demo
 

chopolander

Active Member
Dec 9, 2018
853
1,684
There is a thing called anatomy and proportions, more so when you are taking an already created project and want to continue it. That's the basis for designing animations and movement. That's why all games, movies, animes, comics... have a main anatomical model.

5916e093b63346821cee162d5a5a2a15e042f8a1.jpg male-template-muscle-buff-superhero-body-3d-model-obj.jpg
 

Phanatic

Member
Jan 29, 2019
167
461
Wait, is it now bad to make polls and basing work around of the results? And is there really a right way for something made up (i mean, where is the Krystal in reality)? While i stopped supporting and dont know where those polls are made, i think its good to listen to your supporters and community, if not there would be no point of sharing anything than just a "comming soon probably" teaser.

And what good are those standing pictures anyway to discuss, im more interested in bending poses, kneeling options etc :D That would be an intersting point for discussion from my view... so just wait #demo

This is an interesting topic that I believe has no specific answer.
From one point yes, making polls and doing what people like the most will bring the project more stuff that people would wanna see. It brings community co-operation and overall interaction on the board.
On the other hand if everything is done by the polls project loses its uniqeness from a developer standpoint, because developers stop thinking for themselves and let decisions to come from other people, thus nullifying their own vision. They basically give up their responsibilities and on every question there will be an answer "Well, community decided so. Not us. It's not our fault".

The problem of the community is that community wants too much and too different things, which is of course impossible, so there should be balance. If there is not, then project jsut becomes an oversaturated dump of different shit that doesn't make sense in the summary.

If you ask me, ideally there can be polls on some specific things that can be variable, that still follow developer's unique vision. And absolutely there should be no point where game designer just says "Fuck this shit, let the community decide, because I have no fucking clue what to do with this" - its extremely unprofessional.
I hold a couple of games as a "Gold standard" for myself, them being Mass Effect2 and Dragon Age Origins and I sincerely believe that these games while being made holded up their ground on each and every aspect of what must be done and how it must've being done.

Game is the hardest media that exists - it has filmography, animation, writing, acting, illustration, music, sound, programming and modeling working all together. But to that it also has what no other media has - it has game design, a part that unites everything above to work perfectly in unison. Game designer's role is so big that people like Hideo Kojima are world-wide known for their clear and straight understanding of their own vision of the game. Its a tremendous task to sew up 10 different parts of the game to work together, but when game designer should also add some one else's ideas to his own that he doesn't really see fit, but community wants it - that might ruin that designer's card house easily, destroying everything that the entire team works on so hard.
Which is why having a game designer with a clear, proffessional and unique vision might be THE reason why game can be as succefull as no other game before.
Community sometimes might not understand it, and it might want some more casual approaches, which might kill that one unique spark that would make a huge difference.

There are also a lot of choices that require a specific approach specifically from a game designer to work properly. As a good example you can take DOOM2020. Its not just the same DOOM of 2016 with new models and textures, but an entirely new systems built up from the ground: finishers for health, chainsaw for armor, specific upgrades and an entire game design that reaks of an arcade game. Why DOOM2020 has such good feedbacks? Because everything works exactly as it planned to work. If only 1 thing wouldn't work - the entire system they've built wouldn't function at all. DOOM 2020 is unique and different and people who enjoy it can thank idSoftware's bold and clever game designers for that.
Now imagine if they would poll their decisions... I don't think that this game would look the same. It could be much worse, but could it be better? Maybe, but I would rahter bet my money on a professional game designer to built up my game, than on a community that has 100s of different opinions.

Game, just like a movie, shoudl have one specific flow, one specific idea, one specific vision. If it has - you get yourself Lord of the Rings original trilogy. If it doesn't - you get yourself the latest Star Wars trilogy from Disney.

tl;dr:
I think polls have a place to exist, but I also think that they should NEVER overwhelm developer's own vision of the game, even if its a popular idea amongst the crowd.
I want to see developer's unqiue vision of the game because I chose to entrust them with their own ideas and approach. And not communitie's vision of things.

Why I loved LOK pre-vamp? Because it was unique and had a lot of personality in it. It felt very personal, something that came from the hearts of developers. Once polls come in, that feeling fades.
I hope I won't feel that with what is coming.
 

DoorFive

Active Member
Dec 3, 2019
503
589
This is an interesting topic that I believe has no specific answer.
From one point yes, making polls and doing what people like the most will bring the project more stuff that people would wanna see. It brings community co-operation and overall interaction on the board.
On the other hand if everything is done by the polls project loses its uniqeness from a developer standpoint, because developers stop thinking for themselves and let decisions to come from other people, thus nullifying their own vision. They basically give up their responsibilities and on every question there will be an answer "Well, community decided so. Not us. It's not our fault".

The problem of the community is that community wants too much and too different things, which is of course impossible, so there should be balance. If there is not, then project jsut becomes an oversaturated dump of different shit that doesn't make sense in the summary.

If you ask me, ideally there can be polls on some specific things that can be variable, that still follow developer's unique vision. And absolutely there should be no point where game designer just says "Fuck this shit, let the community decide, because I have no fucking clue what to do with this" - its extremely unprofessional.
I hold a couple of games as a "Gold standard" for myself, them being Mass Effect2 and Dragon Age Origins and I sincerely believe that these games while being made holded up their ground on each and every aspect of what must be done and how it must've being done.

Game is the hardest media that exists - it has filmography, animation, writing, acting, illustration, music, sound, programming and modeling working all together. But to that it also has what no other media has - it has game design, a part that unites everything above to work perfectly in unison. Game designer's role is so big that people like Hideo Kojima are world-wide known for their clear and straight understanding of their own vision of the game. Its a tremendous task to sew up 10 different parts of the game to work together, but when game designer should also add some one else's ideas to his own that he doesn't really see fit, but community wants it - that might ruin that designer's card house easily, destroying everything that the entire team works on so hard.
Which is why having a game designer with a clear, proffessional and unique vision might be THE reason why game can be as succefull as no other game before.
Community sometimes might not understand it, and it might want some more casual approaches, which might kill that one unique spark that would make a huge difference.

There are also a lot of choices that require a specific approach specifically from a game designer to work properly. As a good example you can take DOOM2020. Its not just the same DOOM of 2016 with new models and textures, but an entirely new systems built up from the ground: finishers for health, chainsaw for armor, specific upgrades and an entire game design that reaks of an arcade game. Why DOOM2020 has such good feedbacks? Because everything works exactly as it planned to work. If only 1 thing wouldn't work - the entire system they've built wouldn't function at all. DOOM 2020 is unique and different and people who enjoy it can thank idSoftware's bold and clever game designers for that.
Now imagine if they would poll their decisions... I don't think that this game would look the same. It could be much worse, but could it be better? Maybe, but I would rahter bet my money on a professional game designer to built up my game, than on a community that has 100s of different opinions.

Game, just like a movie, shoudl have one specific flow, one specific idea, one specific vision. If it has - you get yourself Lord of the Rings original trilogy. If it doesn't - you get yourself the latest Star Wars trilogy from Disney.

tl;dr:
I think polls have a place to exist, but I also think that they should NEVER overwhelm developer's own vision of the game, even if its a popular idea amongst the crowd.
I want to see developer's unqiue vision of the game because I chose to entrust them with their own ideas and approach. And not communitie's vision of things.

Why I loved LOK pre-vamp? Because it was unique and had a lot of personality in it. It felt very personal, something that came from the hearts of developers. Once polls come in, that feeling fades.
I hope I won't feel that with what is coming.
Your right, it is an interesting topic. There is also that pit fall of polls where, say, you poll for how much people like straight porn in their games. The information can be misconstrued if you poll in certain areas or web sites, as different places garner different kinds of people. So If I polled straight porn in a mostly homosexual community, my polls would likely be standing that straight porn is not popular.

Here, they polled for how the heroin looked. Everybody was allowed access to that, from people that know nothing of anatomy, to doctors. (that's a bit of a stretch, right?) I like to think it has a place to get feedback if your unsure of something, but what we got was basically a popular vote. There are those that are happy with it, and those that are not. The feet thing on plantigrade vs. digitigrade was a thing, too.

But I guess they wanted the peoples desires to come out the most. I can't blame them, they want to make the best possible game they can. It seems they want to get the community involved, which I like to think is a good thing. Can it be a bad thing? Yes, you have people that know nothing having a say. Can it be a good thing? Also yes, it gives a census of your audience and what they like.
 

chopolander

Active Member
Dec 9, 2018
853
1,684
I repeat, DoorFive, the game takes eight months of development "supposedly" to give QUALITY to the work.

We're not doctors, save the sarcasm, but if those of us who are seeing that the character's V2 has errors, I don't give a damn about the polls, it has errors. They are obvious, and you don't have to be a doctor to look at the design twice and see it.

We are debating what errors it has so that the designer, who has relied on the results of a survey, sees that after eight months, the character does not have that QUALITY that is spoken of. The designer has plenty of reason here to UNDERSTAND that he is failing with the character, and a survey does not say that.

We started with the design of the face, and a visual example and a few comments were enough for the designer to make a design more like the original in an afternoon. And now let's go to the problems with the body.

Phantas has made it clear that a designer should not be influenced by the results of a survey, but should stop and look at the comments on his design and assess the reasons to see if what is being said is a good reason to improve his work.

The assessments given here are constructive, not destructive.

But if you come to the conclusion that "one click on a survey has more substance than reasoning", what you are doing is giving a destructive assessment so that the designer does not learn from his mistakes.
 
Last edited:
3.60 star(s) 33 Votes