Unity Abandoned Legend of Krystal: Rebirth [v0.8] [LOK Team]

[MyLittleTrolly]

r w/e other new ideas that could've been brought in. Complaints about a grind are simply not looking at the bigger picture

It's honestly a tragedy if the 0.8 build is abandoned.

Yeah... After I seen this pose in past -

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I was thinked, that creators decide to make similar type of poses for each character as final reward for finishing their storyline ... And it seemed to me like a GREAT idea! ... It’s a pity, this turned out to be the last thing that was done and added in the older version ...

Who knows, maybe their new version of the game, in the end, will be no worse than the previous one, but the problem is that it will take few years before the new version catches up with the old ...

 

[Ninnuam]

Hi, can someone give me a tl;dr of what is happening with the game development?

 

[chopolander]

Hi, can someone give me a tl;dr of what is happening with the game development?

Well, basically we went from a corruption game with good art, dialogues and a lot of content to develop to something like a paper mario style RPG Maker 64.

If you've played the last one... well, try this one and judge for yourself.

 

[fuffek]

Considering that Krystal has been a furry icon for twenty years I think asking her to be more human and less furry is probably barking up the wrong tree.

Sorry it moved away from your preference but I'd feel pretty comfortable calling you the minority for furry preference in this game's audience.

Ye just like i said it was my own opinion and i also said that the masses (majority) decided

 

[SharkVampire]

I apologize for returning to the design topic again, maybe somewhere deep inside me there's hope that the developers can still do something good with new game.


I just checked this thread for pictures of new Krys, and don't quite follow, the way she walks was more appealing and anatomical justified.

Look at "Original" version in this picture.

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It's hard to tell how it was in the game, cuz placeholders you know, but in all presentations gifs, she walks with her foot pressed against the ground, which feels a bit off for me at first glance, but i thought maybe it be different in the game.
Also if we look on the "Original" picture she has much more skin details than any of the new version. Ankle joint, knee, muscles on the body and the whole skin is more detailed. Yeah maybe new version still wip, but I felt the need to clarify this.

 

[galindae]

can game be linear 2d byt naughty stuff loaded in 2,5 d? like darkest dungeon ( similar). i dont know if its easear than openworld.
p.s about krys model , i think they are both same just old krys is dark blued fur and new model is lighblue. and version 2 is a bit diferent.

 

[chopolander]

When that image was shown, many months ago, I was the first to say.

- The face is now a cat's face.
- The belly is too flat.
- The ears are too far forward.
- the feet should be a little longer for his height.
- The tail is huge.

Now I would add that the shoulder blades should be a little more tilted back and the buttocks are very short. I'll repeat it again if we're lucky.

I keep the original (it's much more attractive) with the feet totally on the ground of 2.0 and the small hair details (more furry) in the tail, ears... of the 1.0

 

[Joyvankek]

When that image was shown, many months ago, I was the first to say.

- The face is now a cat's face.
- The belly is too flat.
- The ears are too far forward.
- the feet should be a little longer for his height.
- The tail is huge.

Now I would add that the shoulder blades should be a little more tilted back and the buttocks are very short. I'll repeat it again if we're lucky.

I keep the original (it's much more attractive) with the feet totally on the ground of 2.0 and the small hair details (more furry) in the tail, ears... of the 1.0

View attachment 722063

I too prefer more anthro look she used to have.
Shame they went with more human like one. So when the game will finally release demo, our grandchildren will be disappointed.

 

[RenDedSec]

Could not disagree with some people that tech demo was..bad.For about 6 or 12 month(i dont remember correctly but mb it was 6) they decided not to do 1 fully operation(working) location with normal and beatifull sprites or animation,no!they decided to do many locations but not working (bad looking).I know that it was just a tech demo of 0.0.0 version but you guys really thought that would be better to have a fresh (stinky) start instead of completing what abelius and kuja started?Also coverting beatifull 2d game into 3d...Now i am definetly sure,that this game series ( all games about kay fox) are cursed.

 

[kespr]

Would someone up the tech demo somewhere else ? I can't access the download, getting weird xml errors, with 3 different browsers

 

[zgrot]

So,obviously the remaining developers were not capable to work further on the game after 2 core members of their team leaved and decided to gain time and milk their patreons by doing this "start from scratch thing".

Worst of all i hope this tech demo is just a teaser of the game and not the actual start of the game,otherwise we went from a masterpiece slow corruption game where even a kiss was something to consider to a shit-like game where a double blow-job to a random guy its ok as first scene.

The art was much better before too but thats something subjective.

I just hope the patreons see the shit this game is going in and start pull off so we can get a 0.9 eventually.

 

[SirNibbles]

A friendly suggestion to the MightyAltroll.

From what I'm seeing what is holding this "new" game back a lot is the animation stuff and the fact that the development team is trying to comply to "all" of the fan's demands.

The lack of animations is definitely a huge factor that is bad right now but from what I'm reading is that you also try to make adjustions to your fan's decisions. I'm not saying this is a bad thing but eventually you will just get a horrible mix of of stuff that the majority of your fans never asked for and will simply be "scared" away from your project; leaving you just with those "fans" that you tried to please.

I'm a small time hobby animator myself (I make 3d skyrim animations, so please don't contact me for animating work) but get a lot of suggestions about people with weird fetishes from which I simply reject their suggestions and outright say that I won't be doing that.
I know a majority from the people who like my work that have mostly the same interests since I basically animate what interests me, if I would comply to those begging people asking me to create whatever weird fetish animation I would definitely make them happy yes; but by doing so about 95-99% of my other fans would simply not be happy with it and I wasted I don't know how many hours to create something that literally nobody asked for (except this one guy) and would only make a couple of dozen people happy.

From what I'm seeing is that stuff gets changed too much according to fan decisions and the project is shifting from a good LoK game to a new project where everybody can contribute something and thus making it in a giant pile of garbage.

And a personal thing I'd really like to add, (not saying to offend anyone by this) but some specific people in the furry community will climb over mountains to request to add weird things to games/projects/drawings or by changing stuff to match their exact preference, even going as far by making donations of over 1000 bucks or making alt accounts to vote several times on some decisions.
Those are mainly the people I've been talking about that you're trying to please here, and thereby abandoning the majority of your fans.
And yes I know because I also have been contacted by those people, same goes for some other developers/animators I personally know.

If you only wanna please those people then by all means do so, but don't expect the rest of your fans to just simply go with it.

I think it's time to consider what can and can't be voted for by your fans because from what I'm seeing now is that too many important decisions are decided by those small time people that scream (donate?) a lot.

 

[Phanatic]

A friendly suggestion to the MightyAltroll.

From what I'm seeing what is holding this "new" game back a lot is the animation stuff and the fact that the development team is trying to comply to "all" of the fan's demands.

The lack of animations is definitely a huge factor that is bad right now but from what I'm reading is that you also try to make adjustions to your fan's decisions. I'm not saying this is a bad thing but eventually you will just get a horrible mix of of stuff that the majority of your fans never asked for and will simply be "scared" away from your project; leaving you just with those "fans" that you tried to please.

I'm a small time hobby animator myself (I make 3d skyrim animations, so please don't contact me for animating work) but get a lot of suggestions about people with weird fetishes from which I simply reject their suggestions and outright say that I won't be doing that.
I know a majority from the people who like my work that have mostly the same interests since I basically animate what interests me, if I would comply to those begging people asking me to create whatever weird fetish animation I would definitely make them happy yes; but by doing so about 95-99% of my other fans would simply not be happy with it and I wasted I don't know how many hours to create something that literally nobody asked for (except this one guy) and would only make a couple of dozen people happy.

From what I'm seeing is that stuff gets changed too much according to fan decisions and the project is shifting from a good LoK game to a new project where everybody can contribute something and thus making it in a giant pile of garbage.

And a personal thing I'd really like to add, (not saying to offend anyone by this) but some specific people in the furry community will climb over mountains to request to add weird things to games/projects/drawings or by changing stuff to match their exact preference, even going as far by making donations of over 1000 bucks or making alt accounts to vote several times on some decisions.
Those are mainly the people I've been talking about that you're trying to please here, and thereby abandoning the majority of your fans.
And yes I know because I also have been contacted by those people, same goes for some other developers/animators I personally know.

If you only wanna please those people then by all means do so, but don't expect the rest of your fans to just simply go with it.

I think it's time to consider what can and can't be voted for by your fans because from what I'm seeing now is that too many important decisions are decided by those small time people that scream (donate?) a lot.

All of that and even more were discussed with developers before, but we are where we are.
Developers made their choices long time ago and even if these choices look questionable to some of us, dev Team stands behind their decisions.
There's no reason to tell them any of that again and again, because such things were dicsussed by me and many other people back in the day when the revamp has only started.
To be a little bit specific - a lot of design choices were made by the majority of their discord community and there are not only like 10-20 people voting, but rather a few hundred depending if those poles are open (if they are, polls were voted up to 200-300+ people). I've personally had an argue with them about making those polls to be open to be able toget as much feedback as possible and as far as I know majority of the polls now are open for everyone to vote, unless those are minor or critical to a character changes - those are saved for people who donate on patreon, since team wants to at least somehow treat their supporters.

Also it must be mentioned that team is supported by a few good artists like Oughta, who frequently council Kuja and the rst of the team about design decisions that would improve art in one way or another.
As far as I remember team also made a few decisions that were influenced by the major furry artist market out there, as an example - this Krystal design is supposed to be inspired by Dr. Comet's Krystal design.
I also tried helping team myself with some game design advices and art corrections, but most of the time I tended to be ignored or ridiculed for trying to add some realistic features to the fantasy character, so I decided to just quit doing that.

I feel like dev team doesn't need advices - they feel that they are as fine as they are. But I think that giving them adequate critique is the way to go if you want them to at least hear you without throwing away your ideas at once.
Dont be angry, be polite, be rational and coldblooded. Give objective criticisms that would improve the gameplay in your opinion and hope that they listen to you - this is the only way.

F95 has a bad reputation as a place of hate and most of stuff ends up being simply ignored because 1 super negative aggressive criticism is taken 20xtimes stronger than 10 adequate ones. Chopolander is one of such people that makes entire discord server think of people here as just another "hatedom", rendering dosens of normal feedback ignored and it's just such a shame.

Please remember that developers are just people as well - they try and sometimes fail, because they don't know every single thing. This game is being built on the previous one, but it's being changed so much that it's an entirely new experience now even for them - they need to learn new stuff and constantly expand their knowledge, it's a new territory for them as developers. They invest their time, passion, money and lives into that, so don't think that it costs them nothing - it's their everything and they care for it, so please take it softer and show them that you can relate to their sturggles as a simple human being. Voilence breeds violence and disrespect breeds disrespect. But same goes for respect as well - if you show them restraint and adequateness, I'm sure they will do the same back at ya.

 

[chopolander]

Hello, SirNibbles.

You can't compare creating animation mods for Skyrim (of which half the modders in nexusmods don't charge a single euro for their work) with creating a game in Patreon... or using an existing Patreon to create the new game.

The advantage of the mods is that you can create animations that you "consider adequate", but I assure you that another mod will come to create the animations that you "do not consider adequate".

Patreon is not about satisfying the fans who support you, but creating something for the fans to support you. That's the difference between "starting a Patreon and a game from 0" and a different one "taking an existing Patreon and starting a game from 0".

This project "already existed" before it was completely reworked and, surely, several people here would have "supported the game in its day". Don't all those people have the right to give their opinion? Why? Because they didn't become, or are no longer, a Patreon?

Phantas, it's a shame you feel that way. For a long time I have been giving constructive criticism which, unfortunately, Mr. MightyAltroll has not taken into account... He thinks I'm attacking him, when what I'm attacking are his ways of doing things with this community. When he presents something and we give him ratings, he doesn't accept them because "we're not worthy of giving any ratings" In fact I would like to know what recommendations from users here have taken into account to move from the old game to the new one and to achieve a balance between "old fans and new fans" for not being Patreon" (or no longer being Patreon).
You'd have to see if hate (which is not hate) is justified or not when a person like MightyAltroll comes to present the work here but doesn't take into account the opinions of those of us who have really enjoyed LOK Rebirth, but criticize what we say, that is if take into account.

Do you feel attacked for saying that the art of kuga looked better before? Not that I'm saying it alone.
Maybe the problem is have the wrong ambassador here.
I'm not asking to make the game the way I like it, but to take into account that here we have been since day 0 agreeing or disagreeing with the changes.

 

[Phanatic]

Phantas, it's a shame you feel that way. For a long time I have been giving constructive criticism which, unfortunately, Mr. MightyAltroll has not taken into account... He thinks I'm attacking him, when what I'm attacking are his ways of doing things with this community. When he presents something and we give him ratings, he doesn't accept them because "we're not worthy of giving any ratings" In fact I would like to know what recommendations from users here you have taken into account to move from the old game to the new one and to achieve a balance between "old fans and new fans" for not being Patreon" (or no longer being Patreon).
You'd have to see if hate (which is not hate) is justified or not when a person like MightyAltroll comes to present the work here but doesn't take into account the opinions of those of us who have really enjoyed LOK Rebirth, but criticize what we say, that is if you take into account.

If you were giving constructive criticism, but ended up ignored like me, I would suggest to simply stop giving it. What is the point trying to give dog a bone, if dog doesn't want it?
Your criticisms became aggressive and you're seen right now as the Hate King and someone who represents the core audience of F95, which is false, but people make a meme out of it and voila - everyone here is viewed as an aggressive member.

I understand that you care for the game, but developers don't understand it and they can't, because for you - it's a game, for them - it's their lives and income, we are on different levels here.

It's not as if I see you like this, but as what consequences I see you cause on their discord server. In fact, I'm in the same position as you - someone who cared about the game and even tried to invest his own skills and knowledge into it, but whose attempts were ridiculed and thrown away. But unlike you, I just stopped trying doing something they clearly dont care about, knowing that it leads to nothing and I most certainly dont want to contribute to the hate train my aggressive behaviour might cause.
I also feel pretty shitty about being nobody for them, but that's just the way it works - they choose to ignore certain people, nothing we can do about it. But at least let's not worsen the situation by being "that one constantly negative guy" for the sake of all other people on this web-site.
This situation sucks for us, but let's keep our pride and dignity and stay normal human beings despite our position.

 

[SirNibbles]

All of that and even more were discussed with developers before, but we are where we are.
Developers made their choices long time ago and even if these choices look questionable to some of us, dev Team stands behind their decisions.
There's no reason to tell them any of that again and again, because such things were dicsussed by me and many other people back in the day when the revamp has only started.
To be a little bit specific - a lot of design choices were made by the majority of their discord community and there are not only like 10-20 people voting, but rather a few hundred depending if those poles are open (if they are, polls were voted up to 200-300+ people). I've personally had an argue with them about making those polls to be open to be able toget as much feedback as possible and as far as I know majority of the polls now are open for everyone to vote, unless those are minor or critical to a character changes - those are saved for people who donate on patreon, since team wants to at least somehow treat their supporters.

Also it must be mentioned that team is supported by a few good artists like Oughta, who frequently council Kuja and the rst of the team about design decisions that would improve art in one way or another.
As far as I remember team also made a few decisions that were influenced by the major furry artist market out there, as an example - this Krystal design is supposed to be inspired by Dr. Comet's Krystal design.
I also tried helping team myself with some game design advices and art corrections, but most of the time I tended to be ignored or ridiculed for trying to add some realistic features to the fantasy character, so I decided to just quit doing that.

I feel like dev team doesn't need advices - they feel that they are as fine as they are. But I think that giving them adequate critique is the way to go if you want them to at least hear you without throwing away your ideas at once.
Dont be angry, be polite, be rational and coldblooded. Give objective criticisms that would improve the gameplay in your opinion and hope that they listen to you - this is the only way.

F95 has a bad reputation as a place of hate and most of stuff ends up being simply ignored because 1 super negative aggressive criticism is taken 20xtimes stronger than 10 adequate ones. Chopolander is one of such people that makes entire discord server think of people here as just another "hatedom", rendering dosens of normal feedback ignored and it's just such a shame.

Please remember that developers are just people as well - they try and sometimes fail, because they don't know every single thing. This game is being built on the previous one, but it's being changed so much that it's an entirely new experience now even for them - they need to learn new stuff and constantly expand their knowledge, it's a new territory for them as developers. They invest their time, passion, money and lives into that, so don't think that it costs them nothing - it's their everything and they care for it, so please take it softer and show them that you can relate to their sturggles as a simple human being. Voilence breeds violence and disrespect breeds disrespect. But same goes for respect as well - if you show them restraint and adequateness, I'm sure they will do the same back at ya.

I know about this entire thread, I even was lurking at the legend of krystal forums when Kuja started posting his art and got approached by abelius to team up.
It's just honestly really a shame that some changes were made to please a minor group compared to the thousands of fans they had which are not pleased at all by most of these changes, even a lot of former patreons who never had their say or are just simply lurking like me.

Hello, SirNibbles.

You can't compare creating animation mods for Skyrim (of which half the modders in nexusmods don't charge a single euro for their work) with creating a game in Patreon... or using an existing Patreon to create the new game.

The advantage of the mods is that you can create animations that you "consider adequate", but I assure you that another mod will come to create the animations that you "do not consider adequate".

Patreon is not about satisfying the fans who support you, but creating something for the fans to support you. That's the difference between "starting a Patreon and a game from 0" and a different one "taking an existing Patreon and starting a game from 0".

This project "already existed" before it was completely reworked and, surely, several people here would have "supported the game in its day". Don't all those people have the right to give their opinion? Why? Because they didn't become, or are no longer, a Patreon?

I know skyrim stuff and building a game isn't comparable; I just threw it out there because I at least can relate to the fact about people approaching you with suggestions. I know that I know nothing about game creating.
I really don't wanna go into a discussion about their patreon and overtaking the old LoK rebirth patreon honestly.

I just felt like throwing an advice out here about certain changes that almost nobody asked for, see this more as an advice; not an attack. This game even though it's a shell of it's former iteration still has a lot of potential but the way it's going right now will sooner or later fall apart, and I'd like to continue seeing this game alive even though it's not what it used to be.

 

[chopolander]

Phantas, fortunately in the world of video games there is not a patreon for every developer where "their community" is limited "only to the patreon".

All developers can make mistakes, yes, but his pride is not limited to his income or his game. If you think that a community that publicizes projects and discusses them is toxic, then you have a problem and you don't know how to see it. If your opinion or mine doesn't matter a damn, then from a grain of sand a beach is made. Do you think I like it? Well, no, but if the developers behave like this, what do they expect? A pat on the back?

If you tell me that the development of a game, in which you are asking people to support you and give you money, is limited only to your patreon, then, dear friend, I don't know what we are talking about here.

SirNibbles, I didn't take it as an attack

 

[Phanatic]

Phantas, fortunately in the world of video games there is not a patreon for every developer where "their community" is limited "only to the patreon".

All developers can make mistakes, yes, but their pride doesn't go beyond their income or their game. If you think that a community that publicizes projects and discusses them is toxic, then you have a problem and you don't know how to see it.

If you tell me that the development of a game, in which you are asking people to support you and give you money, is limited only to your patreon, then, dear friend, I don't know what we are talking about here.

This is not every single patreon - it's their Patreon and it's not up to us to decide whether they listen to us and its not up to us to tell them how they should behave. They chose to listen to their supporters and nobody else - it's their choice that I think they have discussed a lot of times behind the scenes, since they were told these points a million times already by different people and they still stick with decisions they made long time ago.

I of course dont say that you should totally shut up - you can ridicule anything that you want in any manner that you want. It's Internet, we have a freedom of speech and you are free to say whatever, however, wherever and whenever you see fit. All I'm saying is that the way you chose to handle your freedom made it worse for the entire community of the F95, at which point you should ask yourself if you are doing it the right way.

If you want F95 to keep on building negative relationship with developers - be my guest, you have all the rights to do so. I'm just saying that seeing the consequences of your criticism phrasing on their discord, while also seeing you do the same thing over and over without achieving anything makes me question if it's worth it to keep on doing what you're doing. Maybe it's time to change this approach of yours, what do you think?

 

[chopolander]

I don't have any approach , Phantas. There's a lot of things I didn't like about the game, but there's also some that I did.
While it's true that what doesn't weigh more than what does, if I have to say the good stuff, it doesn't cost me anything either.

The last thing I said was that the game looked like a "Paper Mario" and that I liked old krystal's design with stuff from the new, is there anything wrong with that?

 

[SirNibbles]

Can you like give us some source of your info with all those thousand fans that you know about with such detail, like post all the names that supported and dropped im quite curious of your information source feels like youre from CIA or something. Unless its something you just made in your mind to seem like you know all fans and people that support them.

create something that literally nobody asked for (except this one guy) and would only make a couple of dozen people happy.

I'm not saying all people are unhappy, but in my opinion (and if you just take a look around at forums discussing this game) this game went from very good to mediocre. Since it's still a tech demo lots of stuff can still change, but if you're not seeing that a lot of people are not satisifed with the changes made then you're not lurking enough.
It doesn't take a lot of digging to see the majority of people are really not happy with this new LoK game compared to the 0.8 version.

I really don't feel like needing to defending myself nor discussing this topic, I've left the advice I wanted and hope it'll at least be considered a good read or two by the new developers.
I'm just gonna go back to lurking now and see what the future will hold for this project, I hope they will surpise me and many others with an amazing product; but at this point I'm very sceptical.