Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[ratmanirl]

I wouldn't put that on anyone, I don't think people doing a green path or 100% are wrong or even encouraging people to play differently. I just find it interesting how we think about things. I worry about missing context and information too so I usually replay a choice with a backup save. I don't want to put people down for playing a game a certain way, more like talk about why we might think the way we do and encourage people to find out if what they're doing is for them.

I have to agree on Io's recent event, though. I feel like, understandably, the miss option hasn't been talked about much because of how impactful/provocative the optional scene is. The miss dialogue and implications are equally as important though, I feel.

Spoiler: Io event

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Honestly the whole thing feels like a sense check. Ignoring what happened with Maya, this is quite possibly the most disgusting scene in the entire game so far. There's a quote from the VN from way earlier, which is like "you don't applaud someone who breaks everything for leaving one thing unbroken", and it's kinda the same here. I'm sure some people feel proud of Akira (if they chose the non-evil option) but like, are we really applauding a guy for not taking advantage of a sexual abuse victim?

But in terms of overall themes, relating back to other visual novels, usually the sex scene is used for the culmination of a route, used to bring closer the heroine and the MC and almost in a way transfer the problems of the heroine onto the MC (for example, a common thing is like the heroine finds the bravery to confront her problems after consumating her relationship with the MC). Here, it's pretty bluntly subverted to show how horrible it can be, kinda mocking the idea of it being a magic tool to fix the problems of the heroines. Though, this has already been a sort of reoccurring theme: Makoto still killed herself, Futaba still hates how she looks, etc.

 

[PhiloPhilo]

I get what you're both saying, but I think the strongest "argument" for going green path is that it's clearly the story Selebus wants to tell. I guess I'd equate red events to reading a book and skipping over a section you just don't enjoy. The author is going to end up telling their story regardless and while you can alter some things to avoid feeling bad, you end up getting an inferior version of the story

I don't know if I can get on board with that in its entirety, or at least in every case. I think Sel wants to tell a story in which there are multiple options. He may want you to pick one possible path or see it as the more likely/favorable one, and some of those options may even be traps (like the shampoo,) but at the same time, the choices are there for a reason. They're also not there far more often than they are, and the story simply happens, and your role as the reader is to accept it. The story is also being told in Ren'py with those branches added in — it's not a book, and aside from choose-your-own-adventure books, books don't give you control over a character and ask "Do you want to go home or perform x?" In CYOA books, both options have an outcome — some lead to instant death, or a worse ending, or missing elements, but that's the point. I've already written about how I don't feel that missing a scene = skipping plot. It's a different plot, so those potential scenes don't happen, they're coded in for if you choose otherwise. It's not the reader altering or omitting the content, but the author creating a multitude.
I do agree that there are seemingly favorable options and options you're encouraged to choose, even more logical and fitting options. There may even be "canonical" paths, at least when the game is finished, and that's fine. I just disagree that any option is actually "losing out" so to say, and that there is no return or other gain given. And it's all still what the author decided to write and put in the game, unless retconned. Even if the purpose is to be able to fuck up the story, I think it's fitting with the story itself, one in which we constantly fuck up regardless.
Feel like I should reiterate that this is just how I feel about the story and stories with branching narratives in general, and my opinion, and doesn't equate to me saying anyone or their playthrough is wrong or that I won't be completely hardlocked out of the game in 15 months.

 

[PhiloPhilo]

Honestly the whole thing feels like a sense check. Ignoring what happened with Maya, this is quite possibly the most disgusting scene in the entire game so far. There's a quote from the VN from way earlier, which is like "you don't applaud someone who breaks everything for leaving one thing unbroken", and it's kinda the same here. I'm sure some people feel proud of Akira (if they chose the non-evil option) but like, are we really applauding a guy for not taking advantage of a sexual abuse victim?

But in terms of overall themes, relating back to other visual novels, usually the sex scene is used for the culmination of a route, used to bring closer the heroine and the MC and almost in a way transfer the problems of the heroine onto the MC (for example, a common thing is like the heroine finds the bravery to confront her problems after consumating her relationship with the MC). Here, it's pretty bluntly subverted to show how horrible it can be, kinda mocking the idea of it being a magic tool to fix the problems of the heroines. Though, this has already been a sort of reoccurring theme: Makoto still killed herself, Futaba still hates how she looks, etc.

You're 100% right, and I think that Akira trying to change or grapple with himself despite still being scummy has been the case for a while. I believe Io was the one to say something to the effect of "Wow, you're really trying to be a good person now, magically?" And Makoto did the same thing after her father died. It's also been the case that not only does sex not actually help the girls in most cases, it doesn't help him, either. He acknowledges that it's all he knows how to do, a distraction, and ultimately harmful. In some cases even, the desire of deific beings that he's opposed to. The disgust and the fallout is really the centerfold

 

[JelF547]

View attachment 3801662

Special watermelon delivery

 

[Kitty Hawk]

View attachment 3801662

It didn't fit in the pussy

 

[derekthered56]

Honestly I think the choices are just there because clicking "destroy her" is much more impactful than just reading the next line. Everything else is just easter eggs.

Which is a shame, because I also think red path Io would have been a really interesting direction to explore. Certainly fresher than another round of Akira backsliding and Io wallowing in misery.

 

[Bingoogus]

Special watermelon delivery

The idea of eating a Maya assmelon is giving me the weirdest boner i've ever had... like, i know i'm a freak with a major ass fetish, but i've never been into scat... so then why am i getting turned on by the idea of a non-poop pooped food fresh from a cute girl's butt...

 

[JelF547]

The idea of eating a Maya assmelon is giving me the weirdest boner i've ever had... like, i know i'm a freak with a major ass fetish, but i've never been into scat... so then why am i getting turned on by the idea of a non-poop pooped food fresh from a cute girl's butt...

View attachment 3802075

Do you want to eat it with rind?

 

[corsair101]

The anti drm is only the gui, the script you have to use the latest one, it was on that post as backup for people who had theirs deleted.

Thank you! Major facepalm for not thinking of that myself, what happens when I try to debug things at 3AM in this weather while playing Factorio I suppose.

 

[Moonflare]

Honestly I think the choices are just there because clicking "destroy her" is much more impactful than just reading the next line. Everything else is just easter eggs.

Which is a shame, because I also think red path Io would have been a really interesting direction to explore. Certainly fresher than another round of Akira backsliding and Io wallowing in misery.

I agree completely - I read it as "feel bad player! muahaha". And I got that memo as early as "this town has two halves". If there is a choice, that choice has been made long ago. And there is hardly anything that Selebus can do that will convince me that I the player am somehow a deciding force in what happens.

There are some games that have the "urge" storyline, where the main character has to endure some kind of recurring temptation to do something. And it might be cool if by the end of the game there was a hidden counter related to "how many times Akira tried to be a better person when he had a choice" that led to a different ending.

Alas, to me, LiL is a book that its creator insists in transforming into a game with bad design. I keep hoping for the best, but expecting nothing outside of one good story.

 

[Bingoogus]

Do you want to eat it with rind?

No... but the two points of focus that are getting a positive signal sent back from my animal brain are 'warmed by her' and 'was inside her'.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

If anything I would more likely expect some sort of dick move from way out of left field from Selebus about four or five updates down the line just to really troll us.

Now that you've mentioned this, don't forget the warning you receive after Io's event.





This doesn't feel like dialogue towards Akira but rather towards the player.
To everyone in this thread, be very careful with your saves AND files, this is the type of man that would be capable of crossing the line and doing more than just uninstalling your game, just because he thinks he can.

 

[NicolasL4D]

There are some games that have the "urge" storyline, where the main character has to endure some kind of recurring temptation to do something. And it might be cool if by the end of the game there was a hidden counter related to "how many times Akira tried to be a better person when he had a choice" that led to a different ending.

That'd actually be cool.

It's definitely possible given there are variables for it (such as iosex = 0 or 1), so it could check if those are equal to 0 or something.

 

[JelF547]

No... but the two points of focus that are getting a positive signal sent back from my animal brain are 'warmed by her' and 'was inside her'.

sounds like a decent compromise between "scat" and "not scat"

 

[Moonflare]

That'd actually be cool.

It's definitely possible given there are variables for it (such as iosex = 0 or 1), so it could check if those are equal to 0 or something.

We all know Selebus is in this thread, so steal this idea, mate. We won't judge you, claim it as your own. We'll have a better game for it.

 

[Vega Cifer]

The recent discussion around not wanting to miss events in the wake of Io's event is interesting to me. The choices are there for a reason, and it's pretty clear that a missed event does not equate to failing an objective in, say, an FPS game. LiL frequently gives you no choice in the outcome of events, or explicitly shows you your lack of input with multiple identical options. Missable scenes, in my view, are things that could happen depending on your choices — but that does not mean you either "get" something or "don't get" something. If you miss a scene because you chose an option based on your desired outcome, you didn't lose a scene, you gained your desired outcome. Similarly, in the recent Io event, choosing the first option causes you to miss a scene — but the current scene continues and provides more dialogue, and importantly, narrative. I'd like to suggest to anyone feeling bad for missing events, ask yourself; do you want to see the event because you actually want to, or simply due to the effects of loss aversion, and would you actually gain more by interacting with the branching path mechanic with your desired outcome in mind? (Or using rollback lmao.)

I am doing a run where I don't want to miss events, glad this could truly peak your interest this must be studied

But seriously, it also feels as if you are missing something important or more developed by missing events, unless you're specifically going for it. The way I see it is yes there are choices, but initially there is a way the game wants you to play it if you wanna be rewarded with getting events, after that you can maybe play it over and do what you want. The first play through you wanna see certain things, and the next you can mess around

 

[derekthered56]

I agree completely - I read it as "feel bad player! muahaha". And I got that memo as early as "this town has two halves". If there is a choice, that choice has been made long ago. And there is hardly anything that Selebus can do that will convince me that I the player am somehow a deciding force in what happens.

There are some games that have the "urge" storyline, where the main character has to endure some kind of recurring temptation to do something. And it might be cool if by the end of the game there was a hidden counter related to "how many times Akira tried to be a better person when he had a choice" that led to a different ending.

Alas, to me, LiL is a book that its creator insists in transforming into a game with bad design. I keep hoping for the best, but expecting nothing outside of one good story.

I'm not knocking the idea of fake choices as a design element. I think the story would actually be weaker if it was just a straight visual novel. The fake choices give an extra sense of responsibility to the reader. It's manipulative but it works, at least for me. Seeing "destroy her" pop up sent chills down my spine. And when you get down to it, we all chose to keep reading a story about a creepy predator; the fake choices just make that more visceral.

That said I would be ecstatic if there was an extra event for having clicked "don't rape Molly" 200 times.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

usually the sex scene is used for the culmination of a route, used to bring closer the heroine and the MC and almost in a way transfer the problems of the heroine onto the MC (for example, a common thing is like the heroine finds the bravery to confront her problems after consumating her relationship with the MC).

What if "destroying her" is the correct option for her in the long run after all? Pareidolia tells us to destroy and rebuild.
Selebus is such a knob that he could've 100% given us some totally obvious hidden clues which can easily be found by tying 37 events together and decrypting the ancient egyptian language which reads "you have to traumatize Io bro trust me it's the best thing to do"

 

[JelF547]

What if "destroying her" is the correct option for her in the long run after all? Pareidolia tells us to destroy and rebuild.

What if it isn't?

 

[Bingoogus]

sounds like a decent compromise between "scat" and "not scat"

You might be on to something there... having an ass fetish has always been a perplexing one to have imo, the clear interest in an orifice solely dedicated to waste would seem ridiculous without also having a fetish for the waste... i've always found that somewhat paradoxical to my particular version of the fetish... I also have a distinct love of female urine, but that is at least not so repulsively dirty and if the girl is well hydrated it is pretty much just slightly salty water, which is the type of have the full desire for, yellow pee is only appealing to be showered in, not to drink... you know, thinking about it, there might be a connection there, see, i consider a girl's pee and consuming it to be highly intimate, the only way for water to get into the bladder is via the kidney's filtering it from the blood, so any pee someone has has naturally been circulated throughout their entire body, you'd be drinking something that has been into every nook and cranny of their being, if i take that particular focus point as a reference, given how erotic that knowledge is to me during the act, then perhaps that is what is going on with this image, it's the contents of another part of her body that instead of being drink, is food, the other half of consumption, warmed by her body, passing through the whole length of it, delivered to me to then consume... yeah... that tickles some connections in my animal brain... fasc-o-nating...

Was not expecting this train of thought and personal discovery today...