Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[chickenmaid]

I'm really sorry the writing isn't up to the standards of mistawankas. Hopefully your refined tastes can find another game suitable to you. Best of luck.

The writing is decent but I do agree that the game design is a little clunky and I don't know why everyone is fine with how you need the wiki or a walkthrough.

It would definitely improve if affection/lust system went from [5, 10, 15] to [1, 2, 3] for required progression and that's just the bare minimum to lessen the repetitiveness.

 

[EllisL4D2]

I am glad to see people bringing complaints about this game. Most that come to game specific threads are consumed by the specific games the thread is about and refuse to critique it.

I think this is the problem with Patreon games. It is beneficial to make it just captivating of a start to get patrons/following with inflated promises then be continually mediocre enough to get people to keep paying in hopes it gets better.

I donated a year back and just recently decided to play. This game doesn't really respect the players time. So much of nothing happening that I honestly am surprised people are not bringing this up more (surprised people donate to have time wasted). Then I find out I am 70% done with current content but I feel I have played VNs 1/4th as long with more meaningful depth and content. This isn't about H stuff. It is about huge periods of no scenes or events even if you hit all the requirements.

Even more of a waste of time is the 'happy' scenes. Like wtf? How did no one complain about the middle school tier writing inside these events during first release? Specifically so it could be removed and never mentioned again as a stain on this title. Particularly a game that for the most part had decent writing for the cast, sometimes even really well done (I never excepted Chunibyo or similar real world things to be mentioned). The happy stuff is so painfully bad and anti-scary that it was a big factor to me bailing on this before seeing the story finished, something I never do. I also never skip scenes but skipped every happy scene after poorly written and set up first 'reset'. Happy scenes compounding the fact then I got to points where no actual dialogue happened for 5 minutes at a time, the same +1 affection loop to start next cycle to next +1 affection hoping a scene triggers. Just fuck off, stop wasting the players time.

I like the content (besides the terribly written 'happy' garbage) but the fact your choices barely matter at all and it is spread out over the most monotonous slow loop of single night choices, like no. Just no. It is already bloated to the point past slow and near dead stopped and more keeps coming. I can get over a huge part of the cast not being sexual (lmao in a wannabe harem game), the sameface the girls have, the scenes/events that literally lead no where for plot, the out of order scenes/dialogue when it happens, the creators poor attempt at existentialism, the attempted time loop/reset that is never properly setup, ... but the time wasting is just confusing with how many examples on renpy exist that avoid this.


People keep defending these poor choices, or better yet refuse to accept/acknowledge them. Injecting there is some deeper meaning to the writing when it shits the bed and has no setup (pretending there are deeper meanings here when there isn't writing to back it up doesn't make it true even if the creator says it might one day be true, are you Evangelion fans ffs???). The slow game gets longer and slower all the time and with no substance and reason to it. Sucks I will never get my time back wasted on expecting any resolution to anything that happens as the game swells up as a nothingburger.

okay bro we get it you have the patience of a toddler

 

[LooLoo Baloo]

I am glad to see people bringing complaints about this game. Most that come to game specific threads are consumed by the specific games the thread is about and refuse to critique it.

I think this is the problem with Patreon games. It is beneficial to make it just captivating of a start to get patrons/following with inflated promises then be continually mediocre enough to get people to keep paying in hopes it gets better.

I donated a year back and just recently decided to play. This game doesn't really respect the players time. So much of nothing happening that I honestly am surprised people are not bringing this up more (surprised people donate to have time wasted). Then I find out I am 70% done with current content but I feel I have played VNs 1/4th as long with more meaningful depth and content. This isn't about H stuff. It is about huge periods of no scenes or events even if you hit all the requirements.

Even more of a waste of time is the 'happy' scenes. Like wtf? How did no one complain about the middle school tier writing inside these events during first release? Specifically so it could be removed and never mentioned again as a stain on this title. Particularly a game that for the most part had decent writing for the cast, sometimes even really well done (I never excepted Chunibyo or similar real world things to be mentioned). The happy stuff is so painfully bad and anti-scary that it was a big factor to me bailing on this before seeing the story finished, something I never do. I also never skip scenes but skipped every happy scene after poorly written and set up first 'reset'. Happy scenes compounding the fact then I got to points where no actual dialogue happened for 5 minutes at a time, the same +1 affection loop to start next cycle to next +1 affection hoping a scene triggers. Just fuck off, stop wasting the players time.

I like the content (besides the terribly written 'happy' garbage) but the fact your choices barely matter at all and it is spread out over the most monotonous slow loop of single night choices, like no. Just no. It is already bloated to the point past slow and near dead stopped and more keeps coming. I can get over a huge part of the cast not being sexual (lmao in a wannabe harem game), the sameface the girls have, the scenes/events that literally lead no where for plot, the out of order scenes/dialogue when it happens, the creators poor attempt at existentialism, the attempted time loop/reset that is never properly setup, ... but the time wasting is just confusing with how many examples on renpy exist that avoid this.


People keep defending these poor choices, or better yet refuse to accept/acknowledge them. Injecting there is some deeper meaning to the writing when it shits the bed and has no setup (pretending there are deeper meanings here when there isn't writing to back it up doesn't make it true even if the creator says it might one day be true, are you Evangelion fans ffs???). The slow game gets longer and slower all the time and with no substance and reason to it. Sucks I will never get my time back wasted on expecting any resolution to anything that happens as the game swells up as a nothingburger.

I understand everything you've said

The game being popular does not make it perfect. And if you can't look past the things you don't like, there's no point playing it

The existentialism parts I usually skip, I think about the topic enough myself. And in a game where the end goal is to fuck every classmate in your nieces class, as well as fuck their mothers, it's a strange narrative choice. It's like going to a strip club, you see a girl you like with large honka's and throw some money at her. She then whips out a black book of secrets and starts asking what the purpose of your life is. And then tells you you're worthless and will never succeed in life

That's a large portion of this game

The happy scenes are awkward and don't impact me, again I usually skip them. Futaba is on a permanent skip. But for the rest of it, I like it a lot

I like the slow burn content. Even though at times it feels like it'll take forever for you to make any form of progress with a girl, with the majority of them having near enough no character development, technically speaking we are at an early stage of the story so it makes partial sense

Funnily enough, it's one of my favourite games on here. Arguably my favourite. Even with its weaknesses. It's got a special vibe that I haven't found before. Plus, Sel is the most hard working developer I've ever seen

Even though I've had to watch the hey stranger joke with Maya outside her dorm get repeated around 50 times. It's got its charm

And people are allowed to dislike the game, anyone disregarding what they said is at best shallow minded

 

[EllisL4D2]

I understand everything you've said

The game being popular does not make it perfect. And if you can't look past the things you don't like, there's no point playing it

The existentialism parts I usually skip, I think about the topic enough myself. And in a game where the end goal is to fuck every classmate in your nieces class, as well as fuck their mothers, it's a strange narrative choice. It's like going to a strip club, you see a girl you like with large honka's and throw some money at her. She then whips out a black book of secrets and starts asking what the purpose of your life is. And then tells you you're worthless and will never succeed in life

That's a large portion of this game

The happy scenes are awkward and don't impact me, again I usually skip them. Futaba is on a permanent skip. But for the rest of it, I like it a lot

I like the slow burn content. Even though at times it feels like it'll take forever for you to make any form of progress with a girl, with the majority of them having near enough no character development, technically speaking we are at an early stage of the story so it makes partial sense

Funnily enough, it's one of my favourite games on here. Arguably my favourite. Even with its weaknesses. It's got a special vibe that I haven't found before. Plus, Sel is the most hard working developer I've ever seen

Even though I've had to watch the hey stranger joke with Maya outside her dorm get repeated around 50 times. It's got its charm

And people are allowed to dislike the game, anyone disregarding what they said is at best shallow minded

Happy scenes actually give a bit of detail into lore scenes, you should probably replay them sometime.

 

[BirivaMartirizado]

I honestly don't like this sort of game, but after a few friends were talking about it, I decided to give it a try and oh man it's so trippy, I love it

 

[moodle]

Not everything in this world is for everyone. You can dislike this game without it being some sort of character flaw.

I like it, but that's because I love overthinking shit and hate masturbating.

 

[SusFB]

I am glad to see people bringing complaints about this game. Most that come to game specific threads are consumed by the specific games the thread is about and refuse to critique it.

I think this is the problem with Patreon games. It is beneficial to make it just captivating of a start to get patrons/following with inflated promises then be continually mediocre enough to get people to keep paying in hopes it gets better.

I donated a year back and just recently decided to play. This game doesn't really respect the players time. So much of nothing happening that I honestly am surprised people are not bringing this up more (surprised people donate to have time wasted). Then I find out I am 70% done with current content but I feel I have played VNs 1/4th as long with more meaningful depth and content. This isn't about H stuff. It is about huge periods of no scenes or events even if you hit all the requirements.

Even more of a waste of time is the 'happy' scenes. Like wtf? How did no one complain about the middle school tier writing inside these events during first release? Specifically so it could be removed and never mentioned again as a stain on this title. Particularly a game that for the most part had decent writing for the cast, sometimes even really well done (I never excepted Chunibyo or similar real world things to be mentioned). The happy stuff is so painfully bad and anti-scary that it was a big factor to me bailing on this before seeing the story finished, something I never do. I also never skip scenes but skipped every happy scene after poorly written and set up first 'reset'. Happy scenes compounding the fact then I got to points where no actual dialogue happened for 5 minutes at a time, the same +1 affection loop to start next cycle to next +1 affection hoping a scene triggers. Just fuck off, stop wasting the players time.

I like the content (besides the terribly written 'happy' garbage) but the fact your choices barely matter at all and it is spread out over the most monotonous slow loop of single night choices, like no. Just no. It is already bloated to the point past slow and near dead stopped and more keeps coming. I can get over a huge part of the cast not being sexual (lmao in a wannabe harem game), the sameface the girls have, the scenes/events that literally lead no where for plot, the out of order scenes/dialogue when it happens, the creators poor attempt at existentialism, the attempted time loop/reset that is never properly setup, ... but the time wasting is just confusing with how many examples on renpy exist that avoid this.


People keep defending these poor choices, or better yet refuse to accept/acknowledge them. Injecting there is some deeper meaning to the writing when it shits the bed and has no setup (pretending there are deeper meanings here when there isn't writing to back it up doesn't make it true even if the creator says it might one day be true, are you Evangelion fans ffs???). The slow game gets longer and slower all the time and with no substance and reason to it. Sucks I will never get my time back wasted on expecting any resolution to anything that happens as the game swells up as a nothingburger.

Plays story focused VN, dislikes the events that hold the meat of the meta story and decides to skip them fully after a few, complains about the writing. Like it or not the happy events are integral to the story the dev wants to tell. If you don't like it might as well get off the ride now.

 

[Fake Rabi ~]

Not everything in this world is for everyone. You can dislike this game without it being some sort of character flaw.

I like it, but that's because I love overthinking shit and hate masturbating.

exactly mate... i've been playing it ever since its first release and i dont dislike any of it's scenes

 

[akselx]

...hate masturbating.

What are u doing here? Are u even human?

 

[hcguy]

The writing is decent but I do agree that the game design is a little clunky and I don't know why everyone is fine with how you need the wiki or a walkthrough.

I have never needed the wiki or a walkthrough.

 

[chickenmaid]

I have never needed the wiki or a walkthrough.

How are solving the resets? I'm pretty sure some of the prompts are unsolvable without a walkthrough.

 

[barglenarglezous]

How are solving the resets? I'm pretty sure some of the prompts are unsolvable without a walkthrough.

Nope. The solutions are all within the game, and half of them the game even calls out that is' handing you something important.

The most esoteric reset is the one that doesn't have any actual codes you have to enter, you just wander around and do things until you've done the right things to progress. It's a callback to the 90's style adventure games where you progress by trying anything and everything until something works, and the entire point of that sequence is that you're meant to feel alienated and lost.

The more recent resets, where you had to type in specific things to progress, the answers are handed to you.

The IP address is called out in the text and you're even told it's important.
The user is an audio clue in an earlier scene (this is the easiest to miss since most people play audio off). Fortunately, if you've been paying attention, there are only 3 or 4 viable options, so trial and error can easily brute force you through
The password is literally handed to you in an earlier scene.

In the most recent reset, in the scene immediately prior to it, there was a screen that randomly popped up saying "WRITE THIS DOWN YOU ONLY GET ONE CHANCE" people flooded this page asking for the information that was on this screen. The rest of the answers were in the scene that could be viewed any number of times before you answered the questions.

That's not on the game. That is %100 on the player.

 

[ansc]

What keeps me interested in this game is wanting to see how the mystery-box plot all works out.

To be honest- Most likely, it won't.

And then how interesting all the mysteries are now will become another reason to hate what became of them.

That's just how these things tend to go (though when they do have good answers... it's so satisfying).

But hey, that hasn't happened yet. Maybe it won't.

I agree, at least in part, with many of the stated problems with this game. But I still really like it.

///

An aside on this game's grind, and game grind in general:

Unfortunately, there is one simple reason why this game, and others with grind, are structured as such-

Inconsistent reward is much more addicting than reliable reward.

I hate to say it, but the grind 'helps' this game because grind helps any game that needs padding.

It does so, because when you do get an event after repeating the same shit over and over the novelty spikes your dopamine
thus imprinting the event into your memory more effectively, and capturing more of your attention in the moment.

Speaking of which, the content itself, which arrives inconsistently when not using the guide, is of a highly dopaminergic nature.
I am talking about the content that is sexual, dramatic, or... downright insane (and thus is of extreme novelty).

All of this aids in the fostering of 'addiction' to the game and I would expect the combination is why the game became so relatively popular.

If you took out the grind I bet many less people would have stuck with it, because they wouldn't have gotten trained to keep executing the games very simple gameplay loop of 'click shit until you get sex or plot or crazy shit'.

I am not excusing any of this, merely explaining. I hate the grind.

I would be doubtful anyone has cogitated all this whilst making their VN or porn game...

It certainly wasn't intentional on the part of Selebus or he wouldn't have plans to keep the game going so so long.
He would realize that his audience will 'downregulate'- that is to say, get used to the various happenings.

It's the ultimate threat to anything that is 'horror' or 'porn' which are visceral genres that thrive on novelty and constant escalation.

(horror and porn are very similar in that they only work when they are FRESH to the viewer!)

 

[mistawankas]

I expected this "you don't get it" or "not for you" because you created non-canon in your head of what isn't here. A 14+ hour read of literally nothing happening? That isn't patience or misunderstanding, it is a bad game you all hope becomes better. Echo chambers are bad and you shouldn't get so upset someone wants the game to be anything other than the most blatantly shit it can be in every aspect. Sorry your safe space was invaded by critical thinking beyond a middle schooler level.

It is a horrendous spooky game. It is a horrendous h-game. It is a mediocre story telling game. It doesn't respect any of your time invested and pretending there is deeper meaning is a pathetic non-excuse. Have you people never played any other vn, ever? Even a 4 hour read like DDLC completely annihilates the pretend meta/horror garbage this game conned you into believing. After 5-8 'happy' scenes it all boils down to "lol spooky game for middle schooler brains", it does NOTHING but setup nothing at all. Like every scene in this game so far. Imagine telling your "friends" you need to read a VN for 14+ hours and accept no conclusion to anything in the game, also the writing is bad. You are close to Higurashi and Steins length at that 14hr point. Actually good VNs.

Plays story focused VN, dislikes the events that hold the meat of the meta story and decides to skip them fully after a few, complains about the writing. Like it or not the happy events are integral to the story the dev wants to tell. If you don't like it might as well get off the ride now.

There is no meta story here. Injecting random nothing into scenes isn't meta or story. Imagine playing ANY OTHER VN and you find out all the background noises and scenes names combine to unlock a hidden "meta" website url to cover for when the game is junk. There is no hidden meaning, you just want there to be to cover for the mediocrity of a story that is swollen with nothing but more patreon characters added. I did get off the ride but too late, hopefully I can warn others it can never be a good title without fundamental fixes. Fixes/redos needed from the start and a second writer that understands how to write phycological content if it NEEDS to be forced. Fixes so the happy garbage can be redone from children tier to maybe high school tier. Currently this vn isn't story focused, it has NO focus but adding more words without substance to keep patreon payments.

okay bro we get it you have the patience of a toddler

Don't be mad your time is wasted and you are accepting it. The happy scenes mean nothing. You fucking know it. I bet in your head they do but they don't. Your confusion isn't depth. How mentally slow can you be to call others toddlers for respecting their time to avoid pretend depth? There is no fucking hidden lore or meaning to any of it, just shit writing that you eat up. It can all be summed up into a sentence of "lol so it isn't as it seems IT IS ALL A GAME!!!", the game makes the same sense if you skip every happy scene, meaning they are useless.

 

[gigiduru29]

You could have just said you don't like the game and you don't recommend it and then skip. Why write pages and pages? Some people like this game and some don't. Get over it ...

Edit: Have you read the Early Game Rework Announcement written by the dev? He admits that until 0.8.0 some of his work could do with a rework...

 

[LooLoo Baloo]

Nope. The solutions are all within the game, and half of them the game even calls out that is' handing you something important.

The most esoteric reset is the one that doesn't have any actual codes you have to enter, you just wander around and do things until you've done the right things to progress. It's a callback to the 90's style adventure games where you progress by trying anything and everything until something works, and the entire point of that sequence is that you're meant to feel alienated and lost.

The more recent resets, where you had to type in specific things to progress, the answers are handed to you.

The IP address is called out in the text and you're even told it's important.
The user is an audio clue in an earlier scene (this is the easiest to miss since most people play audio off). Fortunately, if you've been paying attention, there are only 3 or 4 viable options, so trial and error can easily brute force you through
The password is literally handed to you in an earlier scene.

In the most recent reset, in the scene immediately prior to it, there was a screen that randomly popped up saying "WRITE THIS DOWN YOU ONLY GET ONE CHANCE" people flooded this page asking for the information that was on this screen. The rest of the answers were in the scene that could be viewed any number of times before you answered the questions.

That's not on the game. That is %100 on the player.

People don't need a guide or a walkthrough for the numbers that it tells you to write down, barglenarglezous

While people do get stuck because they don't want to bother with a number puzzle on a sex game, it's not the main issue

The games very easy when you know exactly what to do from the changelog and the character info page which tells you which 4 girls you have events with (I'd know). I'd suggest starting a new game and trying to figure out the labyrinth that you've got to go through if you aren't playing update by update. You'd then understand why new players need both a guide and the wiki

They get stuck in an endless loop of repeatable events when they have to do one specific thing on one specific day with one specific girl. It's pretty much guess and hope that after knocking on everyone's door and going through them day by day,
that a new event appears and stops blocking the main story

In other words, they find the game a tedious chore and then come here to complain about it. And then people like you complain about their complaints. Because there's no walkthrough

Makes sense, no?

 

[ansc]

Mistawankas, I am sympathetic to some of the things you said in your original post...

But- you need to realize that this is an 'adult' game on F95... and as far as I can tell even if it is exactly as bad as you are saying it is- it very well could still be the best written game on here....

(if there is a game on here you would like to mention as better, please do)

That is the context in which I consider this game good. Not in comparison to professional works.


That all being said, I don't know what you are trying to accomplish with your second comment. I'm as against echo chambers as anyone can be. Hell, I've had two short back and forths with Selebus on here trying to give him some helpful feedback.

But...

It is best not to let people you don't know on the internet get to you emotionally, and if you are going to criticize something as being juvenile and poorly written... the last thing you should do is write a juvenile and poorly written comment.

No ill will (I'm not on your side or the hardcore fan side), just some unsolicited advice from someone who used to write how you do, and noticed it never convinced anyone.

 

[EllisL4D2]

I expected this "you don't get it" or "not for you" because you created non-canon in your head of what isn't here. A 14+ hour read of literally nothing happening? That isn't patience or misunderstanding, it is a bad game you all hope becomes better. Echo chambers are bad and you shouldn't get so upset someone wants the game to be anything other than the most blatantly shit it can be in every aspect. Sorry your safe space was invaded by critical thinking beyond a middle schooler level.

It is a horrendous spooky game. It is a horrendous h-game. It is a mediocre story telling game. It doesn't respect any of your time invested and pretending there is deeper meaning is a pathetic non-excuse. Have you people never played any other vn, ever? Even a 4 hour read like DDLC completely annihilates the pretend meta/horror garbage this game conned you into believing. After 5-8 'happy' scenes it all boils down to "lol spooky game for middle schooler brains", it does NOTHING but setup nothing at all. Like every scene in this game so far. Imagine telling your "friends" you need to read a VN for 14+ hours and accept no conclusion to anything in the game, also the writing is bad. You are close to Higurashi and Steins length at that 14hr point. Actually good VNs.




There is no meta story here. Injecting random nothing into scenes isn't meta or story. Imagine playing ANY OTHER VN and you find out all the background noises and scenes names combine to unlock a hidden "meta" website url to cover for when the game is junk. There is no hidden meaning, you just want there to be to cover for the mediocrity of a story that is swollen with nothing but more patreon characters added. I did get off the ride but too late, hopefully I can warn others it can never be a good title without fundamental fixes. Fixes/redos needed from the start and a second writer that understands how to write phycological content if it NEEDS to be forced. Fixes so the happy garbage can be redone from children tier to maybe high school tier. Currently this vn isn't story focused, it has NO focus but adding more words without substance to keep patreon payments.



Don't be mad your time is wasted and you are accepting it. The happy scenes mean nothing. You fucking know it. I bet in your head they do but they don't. Your confusion isn't depth. How mentally slow can you be to call others toddlers for respecting their time to avoid pretend depth? There is no fucking hidden lore or meaning to any of it, just shit writing that you eat up. It can all be summed up into a sentence of "lol so it isn't as it seems IT IS ALL A GAME!!!", the game makes the same sense if you skip every happy scene, meaning they are useless.

my time isn't wasted because i don't have time worth being wasted

anyways happy scenes do mean stuff, they give lore and explanations, examples being baby finches happy scene

 

[Dragon1982]

Don't pull a what? If you mean lewding her..

it's going to happen.

He means killing her literally.

 

[PrimeGuy]

As a general comment to those weighing in on the current heated discussion: Everyone is free to decide what is a waste of their own time.

You feel the game is a waste of your time? That's your prerogative, that's how *you* feel. If you're not interested in seeing if you can feel differently about it, that's your business too. If you want to let the forum know that's how you feel about it, and explain why (as some have) that's valid feedback.

You feel the game is enjoyable? Time well spent? That's your prerogative too, that's how *you* feel. Chances are in this case, you have no interest in feeling differently about it either (most people don't want to change to disliking something they enjoy after all). If you want to let the forum know that's how you feel about it, and explain why (as many have) that's also valid feedback.

However, telling other people how they should feel about the game, or the time spent on it, is not valid feedback. We should never try to tell other people they should, or shouldn't like something.

I believe the time I spend with this game is not wasted. I believe that the happy scenes do have some part to play in the overall story. I believe there are mysteries which do entice me. I believe the characters' personalities are engaging and enticing. I want to protect them all, and make them all feel good and happy. I know this is not what will happen, and I can't stop myself from watching the horror unfold click by click.

If you believe that there is no overall story, or mysteries, that the game is just full of random stuff, then yeah, I can see how you'd feel it was a waste of time. You feel how you feel, and letting the author, and other potential players know that's how the game hit you is good - other people might wind up feeling the same way. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong for feeling that way.

On the other hand, it hit me different, and that should be okay too.