akselx

Active Member
Mar 29, 2020
760
1,232
I mean, we are just getting access to something he is making for himself. Unlike other developers, who are indeed developing for the other people who play, Selebus is mainly doing the project he wants to make. This is a big part of why we patrons have no say in actual game development, we get say in what he makes for our patron perks to a degree (certain levels get custom image requests, currently $50 for one and $100 for three), but those do not go into the game. When it comes to the game, even we are just along for the ride.

What Selebus wants is all that matters, unlike other games that are specifically being made with other people in mind.
Yeah, I remember, although the way u put sounds a bit weird.
 
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alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
7,716
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I can think of many both AAA and minor dev projects that have had this mentality.

Their end result usually wasn't great. Sure dilution of vision is something that all content creators dread but conversely not having a sounding board at all tends to result in a mess of similar scale just of differing result.
Tends to is not a guarantee for every case, as we see here. He already had one of the best games on this site, largely due to the the overabundance of sex centered games on here, but also due to how good his writing is even compared to the other few writing centered games on here, and now he is going back to make the game fully into one that meets his current level of skill (which is pointless when there are still a few years of development left, really, since he's just going to improve and have to rework content again later to bring it up to the future standard as he is doing now).

As far as what constitutes a mess in regards to listening to others, so does listening too much. I have seen games on here entirely ruined by allowing patrons or, rarely, even free players to take any sort of creative control and it has never succeeded in any game I have witnessed. Usually the patrons drive the game into the ground and continue digging long after blasting through the center of the Earth just to see how much of their own personal tastes they can cram into the game or, less commonly, how many other tastes they don't like they can remove from the game.

The vision of the developer should always come first above all else in development (for all development models, including patron focused), if that means 'happy' scenes, let there be as many 'happy' scenes as Selebus wants. If it means puzzles, let there be as many and as difficult puzzles as Selebus wants.

Yeah, I remember, although the way u put sounds a bit weird.
How so? Most Patreon developers (actual platform doesn't matter, this refers to developers who work off of sites like Patreon or SubscribeStar) do develop for other people, their patrons in other words, as either a secondary or, less commonly, a primary job.

There are not that many who are truly developing for themselves alone and are basically only giving other people access to the game they create, Selebus being one of those. We are just getting access to LiL, but it is still Selebus's game alone.
 

alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
7,716
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Just so. Idk, don't overthink it.
I just didn't know if it was weird in a way that needed changed for clarification or unintended tone is all, I don't want to give the wrong impression in my comments. If it is nothing to worry about, I won't.
 

Ormyc

New Member
Mar 25, 2019
14
13
The game is alright, most of the characters are pretty enjoyable, music is solid. A pretty good experience until you eventually just run into the lack of progression as you desperately try to fire off the next event in sequence that has to be done on a specific day in a specific location.

This shit has just become even more obnoxious and it was this that led to me dropping the game a few years back and what led to me dropping it again a bit ago.

Maybe one day this game won't be like pulling teeth and doesn't require you to have a walkthrough out and primed to trigger off events in proper sequence so the game just stops. I just don't have the investment in the game to power through it past a certain point.
fyi there is a guide mod in the OP that makes this aspect way less cancer.
 

moodle

Member
Nov 26, 2016
251
340
My attitude towards game obscurity is similar to my attitude towards game difficulty: it's a lot easier for the user to adjust down than up. As such, I support game makers designing stuff that's frustrating (e.g. Soulslikes, bullet hells, whatever the fuck is going on with Cultist Simulator which doesn't explain shit, etc.) and letting the target audience for that sort of thing enjoy it, while other people who don't want the full frustrating experience can just... circumvent the frustration super trivially?

Like, it amazes me when people come in asking for puzzle answers or whatever instead of literally just opening the game files and checking? Selebus doesn't even pack his game in .rpa compression! You can literally just open the files in a text editor and change them to whatever you want! There's a whole-ass wiki that says all the event prerequisites and that is linked to from the game itself. There's a guide mod that helps you through things if even that is too hard. Let Selebus have his weird artist vision if he wants, I disagree with him about makes games compelling but weird artists are like that and he writes great prose (and poetry, for that matter), so if the downsides of him being a weird artist come with the upsides of him being a weird artist, then cool, whatever. I'll just check the files if I get too aggravated with his bullshit, it takes thirty seconds.
 
Sep 4, 2017
85
46
The game is alright, most of the characters are pretty enjoyable, music is solid. A pretty good experience until you eventually just run into the lack of progression as you desperately try to fire off the next event in sequence that has to be done on a specific day in a specific location.

This shit has just become even more obnoxious and it was this that led to me dropping the game a few years back and what led to me dropping it again a bit ago.

Maybe one day this game won't be like pulling teeth and doesn't require you to have a walkthrough out and primed to trigger off events in proper sequence so the game just stops. I just don't have the investment in the game to power through it past a certain point.

So, let me preface this with the statement that I am not asking for any changes to be made, this is just my experience while playing Lessons in Love in 2 different ways.

I've been playing LiL for quite some time now, and have played it both from patch to patch, and letting the patches build up over a longer period of time to "binge" multiple patches of content in one go.

From my personal experience, playing LiL patch to patch significantly decreases the feeling of:

lack of progression as you desperately try to fire off the next event in sequence that has to be done on a specific day in a specific location.

having the ability to actually see what content there is in the patch you are playing and what other girls to try for if you hit a wall makes for a far smoother gaming experience and even story progression.

and that brings me to the moments where I had saved up multiple patches instead, this previous feeling of hitting walls and "aimlessly wandering around" hits me at least a few times every time I let patches build up.
Sure, there are enough guiding hands to help you get along the way, with being the major and best source of help. But that also sometimes takes me out of the flow of the game, having to look things up to see who I need to focus on to "end a patch" and get to the next sequential patch slowly working up to being up to date again.


TLDR: In My Honest Opinion LiL is best played patch to patch
 

alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
7,716
4,454
So, let me preface this with the statement that I am not asking for any changes to be made, this is just my experience while playing Lessons in Love in 2 different ways.

I've been playing LiL for quite some time now, and have played it both from patch to patch, and letting the patches build up over a longer period of time to "binge" multiple patches of content in one go.

From my personal experience, playing LiL patch to patch significantly decreases the feeling of:

lack of progression as you desperately try to fire off the next event in sequence that has to be done on a specific day in a specific location.

having the ability to actually see what content there is in the patch you are playing and what other girls to try for if you hit a wall makes for a far smoother gaming experience and even story progression.

and that brings me to the moments where I had saved up multiple patches instead, this previous feeling of hitting walls and "aimlessly wandering around" hits me at least a few times every time I let patches build up.
Sure, there are enough guiding hands to help you get along the way, with being the major and best source of help. But that also sometimes takes me out of the flow of the game, having to look things up to see who I need to focus on to "end a patch" and get to the next sequential patch slowly working up to being up to date again.


TLDR: In My Honest Opinion LiL is best played patch to patch
As a patch to patch player, at least when my hand isn't forced like it was with 0.16.0 going into 0.17.0 and 0.18.0, that tends to be my experience as well. It also means that any previous version prerequisites for the current build will have already been met going into the current build, so you can't get stuck on those, and you have a much shorter list of events to track.
 
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akselx

Active Member
Mar 29, 2020
760
1,232
any hero with a save for 0.23?....grinding for 3h and got tired of it
There were saves posted somewhere in this thread. I won't do it, however, as I feel like this is one game that u either play or don't. Skipping parts of it defeats the whole point of playing it and if u think u can just hit replay and experience events this way, I'm going to disappoint u, as replays have a lot of flags u acquire as u make choices in game disabled, unless u need then to see the scene in the first place. Take this as u will.
 
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alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
7,716
4,454
6.2gb damn thats a heavy file to download
It is a pretty long game and is not even close to the end, a lot of content (not necessarily referring to sex scenes as that is side content in this game at best) means a big file size when dealing with games like this due to the vast amount of images needed for that content.
 

aasguard

Member
Jul 4, 2019
198
157
It is a pretty long game and is not even close to the end, a lot of content (not necessarily referring to sex scenes as that is side content in this game at best) means a big file size when dealing with games like this due to the vast amount of images needed for that content.
last time i downloaded the game it was 4.6 gb i have missed a lot of stuff then
 

alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
7,716
4,454
last time i downloaded the game it was 4.6 gb i have missed a lot of stuff then
Not necessarily, Renpy games are usually not big by themselves, it just means there were many images added. The game has added multiple hundreds of images per update, the last change log was 400+ images. Each image is somewhere in the low MB range, but that adds up quickly and it only takes 1,024MB to make 1GB. Let's say each is 6MB large, at exactly 400 images, that is over 2GB of size increase.

What really determines if you missed a lot of content is what version number you last played. If, for example, you played somewhere in the mid teens last, like 0.14.0, then yes, you have a lot of content ahead of you. However, if you last played 0.23.0 part 1 then, while there is a fair amount, I would not call it a lot.
 
Jul 11, 2019
56
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Hey Alex, just wondering if you're on the LiL Discord.
Since that place is slightly (and by slightly I mean definitely and a lot) more active than this place, including theories and so.
Especially since we just had the Homie Announcements where we got a look into character 34.
This is the part where I'd post a screenshot, but the moderators and Sel didn't really want us leaking pateron only content, so yeah. A verbal description would probably be the best you'll get for now.
(Also we asked Sel a bunch of questions and that was cool.)
 
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