Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[1804maya]

I have edited the script so you can target characters individually (also works for everyone):

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But you can type [character]_love = 100 or [character]_lust = 100 and it'll work..

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thank you and thanks to others that replied as well this is very helpful!

 

[jamyong]

Hmmmm. Well i have no experience with BPD people so if Selebus is somewhat modelling her after one then it'd make perfect sense why she doesn't seem to make much sense to me. She definitely seems to hate people though, not actively, just in "i have absolutely no fucking interest in you whatsoever, go away" way. You've helped Bargle but i still feel like i only have a poor understanding of her.

count yourself lucky. having dated and fallen in love with someone with BPD, it is a fucking nightmare. pretty sure the whole ordeal took years off of my life. if you're someone that feels an inclination to "fix" people, stay far far away for your own well being. and if you're someone who cannot handle someone else making you the inception-esque totem they cling to obsessively, stay far far away for theirs

 

[kitsunedawn]

Ugh, wish I hadn't borked my save so I could replay her scenes. I'm gonna have to go from memory here.

I don't think she hates people. I think she hates being abandoned, and they can't abandon you if they were never close to begin with.

She's showing signs of having a Favorite Person relationship with Sensei, which is an indicator of Borderline Personality Disorder. All of her self-worth and validation comes from Sensei, from how much time he spends with her to the quality of the time they spend together, and any time when she knows he's with someone else -- in any capacity -- she sees it as a deflation of her worth as a person. This is very dangerous for Io -- Sensei is probably the worst character in the game to have that kind of attachment to. To her, he represents almost a savior -- from solitude and from herself.

I could be off base here. We don't see the extreme anger that can manifest in BPD patients, at least not yet -- but very technically, it's still early. We don't have a lot of 1x1 time with her just yet.

I would add to this, that with BPD (speaking from personal experience) there's typically a cause in the person's background. Not a specific singular point where things went 'wrong' and caused the disorder; but a series of things. The most common cause being a feeling of loss that just never goes away. A powerless feeling, and clinical depression. So they will push others away because as you said, they can't abandon you if they weren't close to begin with.

However, I don't think she sees him with someone else as being a deflation of her worth. Rather, I think she starts to worry that the person will forget about her. Like so many others have done in the past (in her mind) and that Sensei is going to be no different. So mentally she is preparing herself for the eventual moment he leaves her. She may even try to cause that to happen, since in her mind, she knows that's going to happen anyway.

 

[Bingoogus]

 

[barglenarglezous]

Anyway, do u have a background in clinical psychology?

Not professionally or academically, no. I'm part of a social circle that's very open about our various mental health issues, so I learn a lot through exposure.

I could easily be off base, that's just the vibe I get.

 

[Bingoogus]

I could easily be off base, that's just the vibe I get.

I have no experience so i cannot backup or disparage your claims but i can say if it's all bullshit it is at the very least very convincing bullshit

It certainly has given me something to work with, which as big improvement over the complete cluelessness i started with.

 

[PrimeGuy]

I also know nothing about borderline personality disorder, so I can't add anything to the idea that Io may or may not have it. However, there are certain aspects of Io's personality that are established, and based on those I feel like her behaviour makes sense. Bear with me, I know a lot of this is a rehash of what most or all of us already know:

1) Io thinks she has no real worth as a person - she's stated this many times.
2) She doesn't enjoy being around, or interacting with other people in most cases (Sensei and Uta being the exceptions we're aware of).

Now, I believe #2 to, partially, be an extension of #1 - After all, if she's worthless, why would these other people *want* to interact with her, why would they want her around at all? And if they're saying otherwise - aren't they likely lying about how they really feel? Why hang around people who are lying to her all the time? And similar thought spirals caused by extreme low self esteem.

Why are Uta and Sensei not lumped in with everyone else? Uta I don't know, it likely has something to do with her, and Io's shared past. Sensei it might have to do with the fact that he *isn't* a good person, and Io may understand that latching onto him like she has will wind up going badly for her in the end - which, since she's terrible, is a fate she deserves.

She also likely has a healthy dose of being an introvert, which means that interacting with people in a social setting, even if she's enjoying it, can be incredibly draining, which adds to the desire not to be around them.

Largely I just don't know why she things so poorly of herself - and I think that just hasn't come out in her story, yet. When it does, it might help explain the exceptions, better than my guesses. Either way, I'm sure her isolationism, and self-destructive tendencies stem from her personal view of herself to a large degree.

Just my pair of copper coins for the discussion.

 

[Bingoogus]

I'm glad i finally summoned the 'give enough of a fuck' to write out my question this morning cause these comments have all really got me thinking.

 

[BlackDays]

One thing for me though, is that borderline personalities, as far is i know, have pretty strong shifts in mood. And i don't see that in Io. She's more like a shut in.
Nodoka would rather be a candidate for a borderline disorder.

If i had to take a wild guess, i'd say with all the mommy and or daddy issues several girls have, she might have that too. Maybe raised by her dad alone while her mother ran away, died or was just pretty bad as a mother.
As far as i can remember Io doesn't like other girls, with Uta, for what ever reason, to be an exception.
Something like: "girls are too much trash talking" or whatever.
Could be a projection from what she thinks of her mother onto other girls.
If she was raised by her dad alone, that would explain why she is better at getting around with men.
And because Sensei is the only guy around, he is the best choice as a friend or what ever she see's in him.

 

[kitsunedawn]

One thing for me though, is that borderline personalities, as far is i know, have pretty strong shifts in mood.

Not always visible. The mood swings happen multiple times a day, and the person with borderline can generally control them, or rather hide them if they've suffered for some time.

As to how I know: I'm in treatment for it.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Not always visible. The mood swings happen multiple times a day, and the person with borderline can generally control them, or rather hide them if they've suffered for some time.

As to how I know: I'm in treatment for it.

And Io hides %90 of the time, so we're only seeing her at her best, most likely.

 

[1804maya]

how to trigger happy event Everything is connected. Hint: visit the soccer field while the world is broken. this is at the top of my hints and i dont know who to progress with to trigger this broken world.

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

world will break automatically when you have progressed enough with the story, it's part of the first reset

 

[zargal]

how to trigger happy event Everything is connected. Hint: visit the soccer field while the world is broken. this is at the top of my hints and i dont know who to progress with to trigger this broken world.

Just keep going with the main story- it's very clear when the world becomes broken. This had me confused too.

 

[mannice431]

Does anyone have any clue what's up with the reoccurring talks about an upside down house and grey food?

Seems really out of place with the rest of the stuff imo.

 

[1804maya]

Just keep going with the main story- it's very clear when the world becomes broken. This had me confused too.

thanks

 

[fdsasdf_p]

After revisiting Ch1 and Ch2, I can't believe how many hints and details regarding Yumi I've missed! I can't help but wonder what exactly her role or purpose is in the storyline/this screwed-up world, rather than just being a delinquent character or the "token tsundere"
(this probably has been brought up a million times now since I am so late to the party lol).

She not only is frequently around Sensei when he enters his trance/zone out/possessed state, but also is aware of it. This isn't a trait shared among other girls besides maybe lore-heavy girls like Maya, Ami, or Yasu).

- In Not even me, Sensei experiences some of the first having weird visions and losing control over his body experiences and finds himself in front of an alley with static light at the end (presumably where old district is). After encountering Yumi, the event ends with "But because she was able to prevent me from walking toward the light" with a creepy as fuck smiley face.

- In I see you, Sensei starts having weird visions when trying to remember what happened during This Town Has Two Halves. He starts seeing amiokay and hearing her saying "tell me you see me", and also hears the same sentence from Yumi when the visions end.

- In Where the sidewalk ends, Sensei notices that Yumi seems to be around quite frequently when he has his "momentary lapses of judgement".

- In They're just lights, Yumi comments on "it's like the fucking city itself keeps trying to force us together and not realizing that I hate your fucking guts". She then proceeds to ask him question about "has he has lost some of his memory" and triggers multiple errors and a reroute that takes Sensei to the bar "suddenly".

- In Abyss, Sensei originally is hesitant about meeting Yumi at night, but suddenly loses control of his words and body, and meets her anyway. His mind is then suddenly hijacked by during mid-conversation with Yumi. knows Yumi by a different name.

- In Neon heart, Sensei briefly goes into "momentary lapses of judgement" state and fears that he will repeat a bad decision, but nothing happens at the end of the day.

- In Pluto Was Never Really a Planet, Sensei is once again seeing things when Yumi is around. There is a system message saying "IT APPEARS THAT MORE THAN ONE USER MAY BE LOGGED IN AT THE SAME TIME". In his chaotic state, Sensei seems to briefly talk to a version of Yumi (or an imaginary Yumi?) who's ok with making out with him.




My current far-fetched guess to why Yumi has such heavy involvement in the freaky side of this game is that at the start of the game, she not only is an outlying student of the school system, but also an outlying girl to "this world's basic rule": to easily fall for the protagonist by a porn game design (Yumi is the only girl out of the 10 starting girls that has a tense relationship with Sensei and bears zero or even negative affection before and when Ch1 starts).

The God (or HOPE, or one of the USER, or whatever higher power. This game has too many freaky gods lol) perhaps first realizes this during Not even me when she inadvertently interrupts a God-possessed Sensei from going towards the light (I always thought this implies Sensei being malfunctioning or completely lost control of his body to a certain USER).

To make Yumi an actual MAIN GIRL in this porn game, God controls Sensei and forces unconsent kiss onto Yumi when they are in the old district during This town has two halves. I thought this move marks the method of the God to spread its influence to Yumi simply because how she reacts to this event afterwards. Before this event she clearly doesn't like Sensei a single bit, and I can't fathom why after experiencing such a literal sexual assault, a character like Yumi did not just try to avoid Sensei at all costs or plan to physically attack him (like she does to Nodoka in the latest update). Like, in this game's language, triggering This town has two halves should've caused the player to "miss every single future Yumi event", but that definitely isn't the case; instead, she shows some character development during later interactions with Sensei and under rare occasions, even has moments with him that I wholeheartedly deem wholesome (she's so adorable when trying to apply job online ).

Perhaps all these later events are made possible because her mind is now under the influence of God and has succumbed to the affection system because of the kiss that day? And apparently, God's efforts aren't finished then and there. In They're just lights, Yumi comments on her constant encounter with Sensei "it's like the fucking city itself keeps trying to force us together and not realizing that I hate your fucking guts", and proceeds to deny it's because of God of Fate because they don't exist (To me, this is at-your-face telling me that this is all God's work, making it extremely easy for Sensei to "track Yumi" in the city to raise her affection). As if all these aren't enough! Poor Yumi finally has a replay scene, a rightfully so content in a porn game, after going through Nodoka's scheme. Since this is after whatever Nodoka has discovered during Beyond the reach of god, I can't help but wonder if this is another move from the high power to pull Yumi further down, using a basically a female yet a more willing version of Sensei to do what needs to be done (though this could just be a spontaneous act of revenge for Futaba, and the event is literally called Beyond the reach of god, so maybe no god is involved. However, there is probably no doubt that Nodoka is indeed exposed to something)




Currently, the most mysterious clue hinting Yumi's role is during Abyss, where reveals that it knows Yumi by a different name, and I don't think this is elaborated ever since (if there is please educate me! ). My guess is that the Yumi knows is the affectionate one we briefly witness during In Pluto Was Never Really a Planet, when apparently more the one USER is trying to assume control of Sensei. Perhaps does assume control very briefly before seeing the message "you have strayed too far" accompanied with a ): and returning control back to Sensei (this part is easily too much of a stretch though).



To Sensei, however, that forced kiss with Yumi might be the starting point where he realizes the very real consequences from girls that live in a porn game world but have real life feelings, as well as the malice hidden inside this broken world. This perhaps allows him to have any sort of positive character development in the future, no matter how negligible it might be. His fear of "making wrong decisions" when he is near Yumi is apparent to Tsuneyo, and he shows that fear again during Neon heart. In Noriko's event Kind of yes Kind of no, Sensei doesn't just come onto a nearly naked Noriko but repeatedly ask for a definitively consent answer before making a move, all because of an unconsent kiss that still haunts him. Though he's far from even becoming a marginally ok person, I think Sensei at least has improved from when he first arrived and only concerned about penis activity with whoever, at whenever and wherever possible.



With all the easily overthrown theories aside, Yumi has such an unique position among other girls that I am so excited every time I trigger her event but also screaming NONONONO please don't let shit happen to her but also kinda want to know how things can spirally go sideways XD.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Spoiler: just putting the entire text into a spoiler because i'm too lazy to trim it in my response

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I've mentioned Yumi "not getting the patch" because she skipped school the day Sensei wakes up as a new man a couple of times, because Maya calls out everyone coming around to his new ideas almost immediately in one of her scenes, but Yumi is very clearly not buying in the way everyone else does. She's actively hostile from the outset. I had thought that maybe this was because of some kind of physical relationship with her prior to the start of the game based on some pre-rework language she used, but that's been removed so I don't think that's the case.

There's definitely an alt-Yumi, we see her during the second beach event. WHY there's this alt-Yumi is unclear.

I thik she's the Yumi that would have existed had something major not happened. And tying together some motifs associated with the smiley-faced god, I get these various plot threads.

1) The scene you reference, where Yumi prevents sensei from walking into the light, unlocks Room with the Clocks.
2) In the new version of Room With the Clocks, there are spiders. Spiders are a common motif in this game now.
3) Sana decorates her room with spiders. Sana lost a brother to a mugging gone wrong. Yumi and her mother both have ties with the criminal element and may know the killer. Hell, Yuki could BE the killer.
4) Kaori has the spider tattoo, and her apartment is decorated with them. She is Yumi's cousin, Yuki's niece, and ostensibly had ties to the criminal element prior to her accident. Said accident was horrific and caused Yumi to assume she was dead.
5) In Baby Finches, Ami appears surrounded by shadow spiders.
6)If the common motif of spiders for these three characters means they're tied together, then that could mean that the accident that killed Ami's parents, the accident that caused Yumi to assume Kaori was dead, and the death of Sana's brother are somehow tied together. They could even be the same event. Example: The killer, trying to get away, runs into traffic. Driver swerves to avoid them, creating a multi-car accident. THis could mean that Kaori is the killer, which I really hope wasn't the case, but we don't have a whole lot of information about the kind of person Kaori was before her accident.
7) If all this is true, then odds are good that the smiley-faced god was pulling the strings of all this to make it happen (Ami's shadow spiders are made to look like they're being puppeted by another shadowed character).

Where am I going with this?

I think alt-Yumi is from a timeline where none of that happened. A timeline where Ami's parents are alive, Sana's brother is alive, and Yumi's family environment was healthy. That version of Yumi would have never needed to build walls of hostility around herself, so she would end up much more like the docile version of her we see in the beach hallucinations. That's a timeline where the smiley-faced god never interfered, and Sensei has some kind of connection to that timeline.

Or I'm having another sleep-deprivation induced theory string that's full of nonsense.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Comments like this simultaneously 'wow' me and also make me feel very stupid... how does brains notice all this crap i miss and make connections to things i'd never even think of if i lived a thousand years...

In my case, my educational background is in deconstructing art, so once it became apparent what kind of game this was, I started viewing it through that lens, which means I'm paying WAY more attention than I normally would on a game from here.

 

[jasonmoritz]

The worse bit is Sensei has/had no idea wtf went on on the roof.

He may have an idea. I recall at least one event where Sensei contemplates the change in

Spoiler

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behavior after the roof.