Joshy92

Conversation Conqueror
Mar 25, 2021
7,957
17,226
I think one of the big reasons I like all the girls in this
Is they are beautiful on the outside and the inside

Take Macy for example
People might think she is just some typical mean girl
But once you start talking and spending time with her
You know she is actually really sweet
And cares deeply about the people she loves

The girls have had to go through so much in their lives
They deserve some good luck for a change
 

SSBBSNAKE

Active Member
Jul 27, 2017
713
1,586
Well, in my case, i like reading lots of spicy shit and naughty jokes, even at church so i don't fall asleep listening how im going to burn in hell for all eternity (fr its been like 3 sundays in a row the priest keep telling us we all going to burn in hell) so im good for a full ride of LoML, don't care for people saves
 
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PowerFlower

Newbie
Jul 1, 2017
55
138
I am going to bookmark that video and answer everyone who ask for save with it. I might get myself a couple of facepalms but I think it is worth it to spread the awareness. It only takes one ill intent person to ruin a computer.
It's certainly a good idea to do that, but if you do, I think it's also important to put this in the proper context.

1) This isn't something that's newly discovered, it has always been true since the very beginning of Ren'Py.
Save game sharing is pretty common here, but I haven't seen a single post from anyone suspecting something fishy is going on after using someone else's save file. So, is it possible? Absolutely. Is it likely? Not really.

2) Ren'Py can execute code in the context of the current user running the game. Which means if you run your games as Administrator, any bad code could theoretically modify your OS, steal your files, passwords and so on...
But who actually runs their games as Admin? My guess is the answer is somewhere between a few people and absolutely nobody. If you run your games as a regular user there isn't much any possible malware could do, because it lacks the necessary Windows permissions to access anything interesting.
 

Count Morado

Conversation Conqueror
Respected User
Jan 21, 2022
6,771
12,547
Whereas "Carol Brady" was dating "Greg Brady" in real life.
They went to a concert once when she was married. He was 15 and his older brother drove them.
Is there anyplace to view a recorded play through for this game?, I appreciate any info.
If only there was a place to look without having to ask.
1691363518661.png
 
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naughtyroad

Active Member
Donor
Game Developer
Jan 8, 2019
936
12,673
It's certainly a good idea to do that, but if you do, I think it's also important to put this in the proper context.

1) This isn't something that's newly discovered, it has always been true since the very beginning of Ren'Py.
Save game sharing is pretty common here, but I haven't seen a single post from anyone suspecting something fishy is going on after using someone else's save file. So, is it possible? Absolutely. Is it likely? Not really.
(...)
It is something that is newly getting some more attention, that vid coming out just over 6 months ago, and the change in renpy where it warns you when loading a save is from last May. And be honest, did you know ren'py saves are basically software? I sure as heck didn't, and I guess 99% of people on thread didn't either.

IDK about you, but I don't wanna put security of user level access to my computer down to "it's probably gonna be fine, no-one's been targeted yet that I know of so it's unlikely they ever will".

(...)
2) Ren'Py can execute code in the context of the current user running the game. Which means if you run your games as Administrator, any bad code could theoretically modify your OS, steal your files, passwords and so on...
But who actually runs their games as Admin? My guess is the answer is somewhere between a few people and absolutely nobody. If you run your games as a regular user there isn't much any possible malware could do, because it lacks the necessary Windows permissions to access anything interesting.
I can tell you from personal experience with my user base that most of them will do absolutely nothing of the sort, and wouldn't even know that's even a thing.

As to can't access anything important when not an admin (and mind, in my estimation, that's a small minority of users that protect themselves that way), just, you know, take a scroll through your documents and photos. Any financial info there? Copy of your passport from a few years back when HR asked for it. All those scans and forms for when you applied for that loan? How about them cookies in your browser caches, any chance it'll be able to get onto a ton of websites without having to log in if executed from within the context of that user? Yum yum, scrape all that data, and put it up on the dark web for the highest bidder.

Bottom line though is "Don't ever use a ren'py save you did not create yourself. Ever."
 

Joshy92

Conversation Conqueror
Mar 25, 2021
7,957
17,226
This just further proves why I think Naughtroad
Is one of the coolest & Nicest devs here

Thank you for the warning Naughty
I honestly had no idea before your post yesterday that saves could be harmful.
Hopefully more people read your message.
Because I see so many people in other threads asking for saves

And with how everything is connected these days it's better to be safe than sorry
 

manneychin

Member
May 8, 2017
402
1,090
It is something that is newly getting some more attention, that vid coming out just over 6 months ago, and the change in renpy where it warns you when loading a save is from last May. And be honest, did you know ren'py saves are basically software? I sure as heck didn't, and I guess 99% of people on thread didn't either.

IDK about you, but I don't wanna put security of user level access to my computer down to "it's probably gonna be fine, no-one's been targeted yet that I know of so it's unlikely they ever will".



I can tell you from personal experience with my user base that most of them will do absolutely nothing of the sort, and wouldn't even know that's even a thing.

As to can't access anything important when not an admin (and mind, in my estimation, that's a small minority of users that protect themselves that way), just, you know, take a scroll through your documents and photos. Any financial info there? Copy of your passport from a few years back when HR asked for it. All those scans and forms for when you applied for that loan? How about them cookies in your browser caches, any chance it'll be able to get onto a ton of websites without having to log in if executed from within the context of that user? Yum yum, scrape all that data, and put it up on the dark web for the highest bidder.

Bottom line though is "Don't ever use a ren'py save you did not create yourself. Ever."
I also have to admit I didn't suspect it's that bad. I imagined Ren'Py does heavy serialization to support its fundamental roll back<>forward feature but I didn't imagine it saves code in save files, I thought it saves some public object properties but mostly it saves just a list of public simple (int, etc.) variables capturing game state. Indeed NOBODY should ever use saves from untrusted sources. You are literally downloading an .exe from a random person who might pass it on to you from someone else and any modern evil code is not easily obvious, it may not even manifest for some/most if it doesn't find something juicy. It's very bad.

As a side-note, it's a VERY good idea to at least run all these games under a separate Windows desktop session opened with a dedicated non-admin account. Even better would be to run them in a VM but I don't know if this solution has any smooth path because it runs into the non-trivial problem of having "enough" video/3D hardware acceleration in a VM. I've been meaning to look into it for ages...
 

PowerFlower

Newbie
Jul 1, 2017
55
138
It is something that is newly getting some more attention, that vid coming out just over 6 months ago, and the change in renpy where it warns you when loading a save is from last May. And be honest, did you know ren'py saves are basically software? I sure as heck didn't, and I guess 99% of people on thread didn't either.
Ren'Py uses the python pickle module to serialize/deserialize its data and it's well known that this module is insecure. There's a giant warning about it in the official documentation.

So yes, I did know, but you're correct that most game devs probably don't. It's an implementation detail of the engine.
My point was that this isn't new information to "hackers" and yet nobody seems to have taken advantage it so far.

IDK about you, but I don't wanna put security of user level access to my computer down to "it's probably gonna be fine, no-one's been targeted yet that I know of so it's unlikely they ever will".
Fair enough. I wasn't criticizing your post bringing awareness to it. It's still a fallacy though in my opinion.

2 quick points:

1. You make the "stranger danger" argument, which is good advice in general. It's however not obvious to me why I should trust a complete stranger with an F95 account called "pussylicker69" more or less than a complete stranger with a Patreon account called "PussyLicker69 Games". The former can hide malware in a save file, the latter can hide malware in the game itself. You can of course convince yourself that the stranger with the Patreon account is somehow more trustworthy, but that's faith not security.

Everyone here is running unverified code from complete strangers since the moment they signed up. No two ways about it.

2. Cost vs. benefit: Sure, someone could manipulate a save file and then post it here, in the hopes that a few people will actually download and use it. Or... they could cook up a few shitty DAZ renders and post a v0.1 incest harem game where an insufferable mc returns home to his family after studying abroad. It will be called "My returning home to the Milftown" Something along those lines, only with even worse grammar. Now all of a sudden, hundreds/thousands of people will happily run the malware. And if the game pops up a splash screen saying "This game is 10x hotter if you run it as Administrator" some people will do that too.

It's just not worth it trying to mess with save files when there are much better ways to achieve the same thing.

Bottom line though is "Don't ever use a ren'py save you did not create yourself. Ever."
No. The bottom line is, if you care about security run any and all Ren'Py games in a Virtual Machine and never on your real machine. Anything else is merely a false sense of security.
 
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Biscardone

Newbie
May 2, 2020
94
454
As a side-note, it's a VERY good idea to at least run all these games under a separate Windows desktop session opened with a dedicated non-admin account. Even better would be to run them in a VM but I don't know if this solution has any smooth path because it runs into the non-trivial problem of having "enough" video/3D hardware acceleration in a VM. I've been meaning to look into it for ages...
Well, did you know that Windows 10 Pro has a little something called Windows Sandbox, which is akin to a lightweight VM? No? Don't be surprised, nobody does. It's an very interesting feature that can be used to build a secure testing environment... So it's very well hidden and not advertised at all. Figures.
 

Neko-Chan Pacifica

Active Member
Jul 6, 2021
833
841
I really like this weird game, it would be nice if you could release updates much sooner than it currently takes, etc more than a year! can't you make smaller updates and release sooner like every 3 or 4 months, surely so much easier and your keeping everyone happy?
 

Neko-Chan Pacifica

Active Member
Jul 6, 2021
833
841
Guide has been updated with Chapter 6!

Here is the Official Point Guide for the game, now containing chapter 6 (Please don't suddenly delete the link out of nowhere this time F95 mods, thank you.)

As usual, and described in the guide too, Naughty and I recommend to play the game without any sort of Walkthrough/Guide for the best experience.

Whether you decide to use this or not, have fun with this great game!
can you make this into a game mod please? i hate pdf files, sorry.
 
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